jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Jul 21, 2022 14:17:56 GMT -5
Forever Your Girl is around 9x platinum It was certified 7x platinum in July 1990. At that point it was still top 20 on the Billboard 200. I doubt its catalog sales have been great since Paula's music career stalled quickly, though it did rechart for a bit when Spellbound was released. Her streaming isn't all that great either (not even for "Straight Up"), so SPS won't do much for it. 8x platinum definitely seems deserved, and 9x platinum is certainly possible.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Jul 21, 2022 14:33:37 GMT -5
Mariah's Rainbow is due for a new certification. Its Soundscan total is 3 million, and its BMG total as of early 2003 was 443k. More than that, Whitney's MLIYL was certified 4x platinum with a lower Soundscan total than Rainbow and without making the top 100 sellers at BMG.
Considering the great streaming of "Here I Go Again," Whitesnake is surely due certs for not only that song, but whatever album its counting toward. That song was never certified to begin with, so I'm sure its multi-platinum.
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Jul 21, 2022 15:53:48 GMT -5
Forever Your Girl is around 9x platinum It was certified 7x platinum in July 1990. At that point it was still top 20 on the Billboard 200. I doubt its catalog sales have been great since Paula's music career stalled quickly, though it did rechart for a bit when Spellbound was released. Her streaming isn't all that great either (not even for "Straight Up"), so SPS won't do much for it. 8x platinum definitely seems deserved, and 9x platinum is certainly possible. Yes, some people were saying it's diamond and it's not diamond eligible at all. That the stans hoping so.
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Jul 21, 2022 16:21:39 GMT -5
Actually..."The Happening" (horrible song) is over gold status not close to multi-platinum status.
DYKWYGT could've been certified gold (1975), platinum now based off of shipments...even though it was a little under 1m. A Fool In Love by Ike & Tina can be certified platinum Last Time I Saw Him/You're A Special Part of Me can be certified gold based off of shipments Ain't No Mountain High Enough/Touch Me In The Morning/Love Hangover are eligible for platinum status. Neither One Of Us platinum I Heard It Through The Grapevine-double platinum If I Were Your Woman-platinum from shipments I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye- I know its over 2x platinum ...it might be over 3 million. It has been said that his version sold more than the Pips and they had over 2M in sales
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Jul 21, 2022 18:26:19 GMT -5
Private Dancer where are you getting shipment figures to say what these songs and albums should be? It has already been mentioned that the criteria for Gold/Platinum changed in the late 1980s. What confuses more than labels not doing certs in the 2020s is labels not updating certs when that change was made. The 1980s and 1990s were a time when certifications really started to matter; Billboard ran regular reports related to certifications, and those figures were used to promote new releases for artists. I don't understand why labels didn't do wholesale reviews of certs at that time. Certs matter less now, so I get it, but they were a bigger deal then yet some artists from then never got their due.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 27, 2022 10:06:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 8, 2022 13:32:22 GMT -5
15 new certs for Alice in Chains: www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/Columbia seems to be certifying older albums/singles. They've recently certified Soul Asylum, Mary Mary, System of a Down, Toto, The Chicks, Bruce Springsteen, and The Offspring.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 8, 2022 17:01:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 23, 2022 20:30:00 GMT -5
Eligible: Winner In You 3x After The Storm 1x Dionne Warwick's Greatest Hits 2x Never Knew Love Like This Before 1x Sweet Sensation 1x Stephanie 1x Mya's first two albums both 2x Afrodisac 1x Baduizm 5x The Breakthrough 7x
This is the info I got...I'm not sure how true these are, but they seem to be accurate for the most part...makes me wonder how many other records are undercerififed
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 23, 2022 21:00:52 GMT -5
^There's thousands of under-certified albums.
For female R&B albums, I have:
Mary J. Blige, No More Drama: 3,094,000, yet 2xp (12/07) Mary J. Blige, Reflections GH, 863,447, not certified
Fantasia, Back To Me, 486,000, not certified (2/13)
Aretha Franklin, 30 Greatest Hits, 598,229, not certified (7/12)
Janet Jackson, Discipline, 440k, not certified (3/09) Janet Jackson, All For You, 3.239 million, yet 2xp (4/07) Janet Jackson, Design of a Decade, 2.354 million with 2 million in record club sales, yet 2xp (4/07) Janet Jackson, 7,040,284, yet 6xp (5/13) Janet Jackson, Rhythm Nation, No certification since 1992, 1.35 million in SoundScan sales since 1991, yet 6xp (7/06)
Etta James, At Last 585,266, not certified (4/12) Etta James, Best of Etta James, 1.081.769, yet Gold (5/13)
Monica, After The Storm, 1,023,00, yet Gold
Diana Ross & The Supremes, #1's, 554,441, not certified (7/13) Diana Ross & The Supremes, Best Of, 616,000, not certified (4/14)
Sade, Lovers Rock 3.9 million, 3xp
Jill Scott, Light of the Sun, 478,000 , not certified (3/15)
Donna Summer, Endless Summer, 469,000, not certified (6/12) Donna Summer, VH1 Presents Live & More-Encore, 444,602, not certified (6/12)
Tina Turner, Wildest Dreams, 475,000, not certified (4/00)
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 23, 2022 22:55:17 GMT -5
I also have Chic's Le Freak at 4x (single) Someday We'll Be Together at 2x platinum
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 24, 2022 2:10:15 GMT -5
^There's thousands of under-certified albums. For female R&B albums, I have: Mary J. Blige, No More Drama: 3,094,000, yet 2xp (12/07) Mary J. Blige, Reflections GH, 863,447, not certified Fantasia, Back To Me, 486,000, not certified (2/13) Aretha Franklin, 30 Greatest Hits, 598,229, not certified (7/12) Janet Jackson, Discipline, 440k, not certified (3/09) Janet Jackson, All For You, 3.239 million, yet 2xp (4/07) Janet Jackson, Design of a Decade, 2.354 million with 2 million in record club sales, yet 2xp (4/07) Janet Jackson, 7,040,284, yet 6xp (5/13) Janet Jackson, Rhythm Nation, No certification since 1992, 1.35 million in SoundScan sales since 1991, yet 6xp (7/06) Etta James, At Last 585,266, not certified (4/12) Etta James, Best of Etta James, 1.081.769, yet Gold (5/13) Monica, After The Storm, 1,023,00, yet Gold Diana Ross & The Supremes, #1's, 554,441, not certified (7/13) Diana Ross & The Supremes, Best Of, 616,000, not certified (4/14) Sade, Lovers Rock 3.9 million, 3xp Jill Scott, Light of the Sun, 478,000 , not certified (3/15) Donna Summer, Endless Summer, 469,000, not certified (6/12) Donna Summer, VH1 Presents Live & More-Encore, 444,602, not certified (6/12) Tina Turner, Wildest Dreams, 475,000, not certified (4/00) I could've sworn those two were already certified
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Aug 24, 2022 7:38:53 GMT -5
Some of Mary J's album certs and date of last certification: My Life - 3x platinum as of December 1995 Share My World - 3x platinum as of May 1999 What's the 411? - 3x platinum as of January 2000 Mary - 2x platinum as of October 2000 No More Drama - 2x platinum as of February 2002 The Breakthrough - 3x platinum as of April 2007 At least a few of these are surely due for new certs since it's been so long. The NMD cert wouldn't even include the impact of her 2002 Grammys performance. I don't know why her label didn't update certs from old albums when they got her new albums certified. Private Dancer why do you think The Breakthrough merits 7x platinum? That's around where The Emancipation of Mimi and Breakaway are, and they sold a lot more than The Breakthrough. TB had sold 3.1 million copies as of late 2009, so even if that has increased to 4 million it wouldn't be close to 7x platinum.
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 24, 2022 10:04:51 GMT -5
Some of Mary J's album certs and date of last certification: My Life - 3x platinum as of December 1995 Share My World - 3x platinum as of May 1999 What's the 411? - 3x platinum as of January 2000 Mary - 2x platinum as of October 2000 No More Drama - 2x platinum as of February 2002 The Breakthrough - 3x platinum as of April 2007 At least a few of these are surely due for new certs since it's been so long. The NMD cert wouldn't even include the impact of her 2002 Grammys performance. I don't know why her label didn't update certs from old albums when they got her new albums certified. Private Dancer why do you think The Breakthrough merits 7x platinum? That's around where The Emancipation of Mimi and Breakaway are, and they sold a lot more than The Breakthrough. TB had sold 3.1 million copies as of late 2009, so even if that has increased to 4 million it wouldn't be close to 7x platinum. That why I said it was questionable...I also have received that Breakaway is 9x platinum. How is The Breakthrough on streams? Also, apparently the source says Miss Thang at 6x platinum I'm not buying it
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 24, 2022 10:17:55 GMT -5
^Don't get sales figures from Twitter. lol
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 24, 2022 10:25:29 GMT -5
Eligible: Winner In You 3xAfter The Storm 1xDionne Warwick's Greatest Hits 2xNever Knew Love Like This Before 1xSweet Sensation 1xStephanie GoldMya's first two albums both 2xAfrodisac 1xBaduizm 5xThe Breakthrough 7x This is the info I got...I'm not sure how true these are, but they seem to be accurate for the most part...makes me wonder how many other records are undercerififed ^Don't get sales figures from Twitter. lol This was on a forum somewhere, and some of them I researched to be true and some I couldn't find the actual data...like The Breakthrough and Miss Thang. Miss Thang I know is NOT 6x platinum. The albums I highlighted above are the actual certifications of what it should be
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Aug 24, 2022 15:14:28 GMT -5
Some of Mary J's album certs and date of last certification: My Life - 3x platinum as of December 1995 Share My World - 3x platinum as of May 1999 What's the 411? - 3x platinum as of January 2000 Mary - 2x platinum as of October 2000 No More Drama - 2x platinum as of February 2002 The Breakthrough - 3x platinum as of April 2007 At least a few of these are surely due for new certs since it's been so long. The NMD cert wouldn't even include the impact of her 2002 Grammys performance. I don't know why her label didn't update certs from old albums when they got her new albums certified. Private Dancer why do you think The Breakthrough merits 7x platinum? That's around where The Emancipation of Mimi and Breakaway are, and they sold a lot more than The Breakthrough. TB had sold 3.1 million copies as of late 2009, so even if that has increased to 4 million it wouldn't be close to 7x platinum. That why I said it was questionable...I also have received that Breakaway is 9x platinum. How is The Breakthrough on streams? Also, apparently the source says Miss Thang at 6x platinum I'm not buying it The Breakthrough does not have great streaming. "Be Without You" is the only song with notable streaming, and while it's solid, it isn't enough to help the album get millions in SPS. "We Belong Together" has a lot more streams, and then other songs on TEOM have better streams than the other songs on The Breakthrough. So, TEOM is well above TB in both Soundscan sales and then streams. I don't have a Soundscan total on Miss Thang to be able to guess where it should be, but 6x platinum definitely seems high. Its streaming is sadly very poor (no song over 40 million Spotify and nothing over 80 million YouTube views) so it would need 4-5 million Soundscan sales to be near a 6x platinum cert (it would depend on whether it had many record club sales).
|
|
|
Post by imbuemyblue on Aug 25, 2022 11:08:58 GMT -5
The number of fake figures on Twitter is exhausting; it's usually just Stans making sh*t up. I saw people posting that 'Invasion Of Privacy' is up for 6x platinum when it has barely passed 4 million SPS.
I wish we could get better SPS updates. Billboard used to update Soundscan totals in articles surrounding new releases of different artists; why don't they put SPS totals in them now? Would have been great to know about Beyonce, Drake, etc. when they had new albums recently.
Some catalogue albums could be seriously killing it in their cert updates. There is a group of albums like 'Born To Die', 'Back To Black' etc. that have been doing solid business for the past decade on streaming, and then older albums like 'Rumors' and 'Nevermind' that are just blowing it out of the water. Would love SPS totals for those.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 25, 2022 13:00:31 GMT -5
^Born To Die was updated last November to 3xP.
I guess Amy's estate is not interested in updating her RIAA certs. BtB is eligible at least for 3xP based solely on album sales.
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 25, 2022 13:32:42 GMT -5
That's why I avoid stan Twitter for sales figures, they will lie to boost up their faves
|
|
|
Post by Private Dancer on Aug 25, 2022 13:33:05 GMT -5
Accidental duplicate; please delete! Thanks You can delete by clicking delete post
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 25, 2022 16:34:14 GMT -5
^By clicking on the down arrow...
|
|
|
Post by imbuemyblue on Aug 25, 2022 16:39:31 GMT -5
Fixed, thanks guys.
I missed the update for BTD, but I wonder if it isn't already quite close to 4x platinum. It's one of the longest running female albums ever, so you would think it's possible.
Also, can anyone confirm how certifications are done, I.e. does a record company say 'we would like to certify it for 6x platinum' and then the RIAA confirm or deny, or does the RIAA look and say 'we can confirm it's actually 8x platinum'. Thinking specifically of the weirdness regarding 'I Am Sasha Fierce''s recent certification.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Aug 25, 2022 16:47:07 GMT -5
Fixed, thanks guys. I missed the update for BTD, but I wonder if it isn't already quite close to 4x platinum. It's one of the longest running female albums ever, so you would think it's possible. Also, can anyone confirm how certifications are done, I.e. does a record company say 'we would like to certify it for 6x platinum' and then the RIAA confirm or deny, or does the RIAA look and say 'we can confirm it's actually 8x platinum'. Thinking specifically of the weirdness regarding 'I Am Sasha Fierce''s recent certification. I'm sure bigham can offer some input, but labels/teams have to apply for a cert with the RIAA. There is then an audit of sorts for the information, and the RIAA does have to approve it. Depending on how old the album/cert is, there can be complications because they may have to completely do the cert again, or just go from the last point of certification.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 25, 2022 20:27:06 GMT -5
Getting an RIAA cert is simple paperwork and a $350 fee.
The label applies and the RIAA approves or denies.
I doubt there's very few denials.
The RIAA has always said they do not have access to or will accept SoundScan/Luminate figures.
The RIAA has their own formula based on streaming/sales/video views.
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,884
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Aug 25, 2022 22:43:02 GMT -5
So, a label wouldn't submit Luminate figures for SPS info? Maybe audio-and video-streaming services make U.S. info available to labels and/or the RIAA?
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 26, 2022 12:04:50 GMT -5
Luminate gives more sales to paid subscription streaming. Less sales to free streaming. The RIAA counts both equally. www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/apply/For accuracy’s sake, we require that you send us sales figures directly from your databases. We have been asked why we don’t use sales figures from MRC/SoundScan. MRC/SoundScan measures over-the-counter sales at music retail locations, while our certification levels are based on unit shipments and digital sales/streams (minus returns) from record labels and manufacturers to a wide range of accounts, including non-retail record clubs, mail order houses, specialty stores, units shipped for Internet fulfillment or direct marketing sales, such as TV-advertised albums. In addition, MRC/SoundScan’s archive begins in 1991, while the RIAA has tracked artists’ sales levels for nearly 60 years.
|
|
|
Post by imbuemyblue on Aug 26, 2022 12:29:50 GMT -5
This is all very interesting, thanks for the info.
I guess my questions remains whether or not a label specifies the exact certification they are seeking or if the RIAA comes back with the highest amount available. Does that make sense? Like, in the Beyonce case, was the label like 'hey, we think this is 6x platinum' (even though it's SPS appears to be much higher) and the RIAA said 'okay sure we will look into that specific mark', or does the label say 'we'd like to get this certified' and the RIAA comes back with 'it qualifies for this'.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 26, 2022 12:36:46 GMT -5
^The label knows what the certification is. The RIAA double checks the figures. I doubt the RIAA says, "Why are you applying for 6xP? It should be 7xp."
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,596
|
Post by jenglisbe on Aug 26, 2022 12:40:11 GMT -5
This is all very interesting, thanks for the info. I guess my questions remains whether or not a label specifies the exact certification they are seeking or if the RIAA comes back with the highest amount available. Does that make sense? Like, in the Beyonce case, was the label like 'hey, we think this is 6x platinum' (even though it's SPS appears to be much higher) and the RIAA said 'okay sure we will look into that specific mark', or does the label say 'we'd like to get this certified' and the RIAA comes back with 'it qualifies for this'. Well the label would have been keeping track of where an album was (or if they hadn't been, would figure it out in doing the work to get the cert) so I don't think they'd low ball. They'd get the data together and see what it said. If anything they'd be going for a higher cert than is realistic; as in, they'd see if an old album that was 6x platinum is now eligible for 7x platinum and would then discover it is or isn't. They also wouldn't just stop tabulating at a specific amount. They are going to get data of shipments, of downloads, and of streams and see what the data says.
|
|