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Post by JOJO SIWA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME on Oct 26, 2011 4:28:11 GMT -5
This topic has been popping up a bit on the last couple of pages of the Rihanna one so I ask the PMB this question: Where is Christina Aguilera's cultural rank?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 7:57:26 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd say she doesn't have one, but it's negligible. She's not critically acclaimed, but not maligned; she's not extraordinarily talented in a way that will see her remembered, but also not untalented in a way that will see her end up notorious (Milli Vanilli, Vanilla Ice). She's not an amazing writer. Even though I personally don't like her voice, it clearly ticks a lot of the boxes people look for vocally, but even then when people look back on this period in music there are more obvious standout vocalists who have the same, if not more, acclaim and success. She's not an innovator. She's not influential. She's not the kind of artist whose stature grows in hindsight. She was certainly successful a decade ago, but it was largely confined to two albums, both of which were on the coattails of current trends and both times she was never a dominating force. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride, if you will. Personally, I never hear her old music anymore, but I'm sure at least a couple of her songs must get decent recurrent airplay. "Genie In A Bottle" being one of the biggest teen-pop hits will probably help keep it alive through themed radio hours and such, but that ghettoises and novelises it to a point that's not necessarily positive. She doesn't strike me as someone with incredible catalogue sales, either, although again I can't pretend to be knowledgeable on that subject. Her music was very much of its time and never ahead of it. She's not got an amazing personal reputation or style, both of which help get her press but hardly contribute anything positive. She has a lot of camp value and a rabid fan base, which if she plays up to enough will help create a lasting niche, although again, that's not necessarily something positive. She's a footnote of popular culture in the late 90s/early 00s. A solid standing for what she is, nothing less, but certainly nothing more either.
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 7:58:44 GMT -5
She's a household name and she's known for her talent. She's someone who will still have a strong presence twenty or thirty years from now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 7:59:52 GMT -5
Can I just pre-emptively add that 'you're talking about her, she's got your mind. LEGEND', does not count as a contribution.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 8:58:23 GMT -5
Can I just pre-emptively add that I agree with whatever SHEARS says from here on out? And while I'm at it, didn't we already determine that cultural rank is essentially how long an artist has remained relevant to the industry coupled with their impact? In Christina's case, there's not much to say for either of those factors. She is, has, and most likely always will be overshadowed by her peers. She's not exactly irrelevant in the sense that she did have an impact at some point, but at the same time if we're forced to rank her, she's abysmal. She's a household name and she's known for her talent. She's someone who will still have a strong presence twenty or thirty years from now. ...and it begins!
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Oct 26, 2011 9:46:25 GMT -5
This is such an odd, disastrous new discussion trend that probably .1% of the Pulse population is in a position to answer somewhat effectively. Anyway. She has one thing going for her: she came out in the early 2000s where there really wasn't anyone huge around that could sing, and so she was touted the best female pop singer and that has somehow carried throughout all these years with the general public (until the last year or so). So I think she'll always have this title of having this amazing voice in spite of the fact that her actual singing technique ran her voice into the ground years ago. Other than that, she hasn't really come out with much in the way of lasting, memorable material outside a few tracks. But I have no idea what her cultural rank in the world is. She's a recognizable name with a good amount of talent, and I believe the general public perceives that talent to be slightly bigger than it is, which works in her favor. And she probably still has some pop music life/relevance in her. But she's not a legend or icon or trendsetter. And she doesn't have to be any of those things to be good or successful or worthy of a large following. It's just that she isn't--it begins and ends there. Can I just pre-emptively add that I agree with whatever SHEARS says from here on out?
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Post by ingrownhairdyke on Oct 26, 2011 10:59:30 GMT -5
She's looked up to by millions of up and coming wannabe singer from all over the world. FACT, it's all I'll say.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 11:20:46 GMT -5
I'm sticking with my Olivia Newton-John comparison from the other thread (and she's not even as accomplished as Olivia). Olivia stuck around for over a decade scoring Top 10 hits and had a handful of multi-Platinum albums, yet there's nothing about her that made her a "legend" or an "icon". She's a footnote in music history. Someone who was very successful for a period of time but made no significant impact.
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Post by ingrownhairdyke on Oct 26, 2011 11:24:48 GMT -5
I'm sticking with my Olivia Newton-John comparison from the other thread (and she's not even as accomplished as Olivia). Olivia stuck around for over a decade scoring Top 10 hits and had a handful of multi-Platinum albums, yet there's nothing about her that made her a "legend" or an "icon". She's a footnote in music history. Someone who was very successful for a period of time but made no significant impact. It all comes down to Christina voice and what the world (not pulse) thinks about it and how much praise it gets.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 11:27:08 GMT -5
Vocals are only one component of someone's "cultural rank" (whatever the hell that is). Artists don't become cultural icons based on their voice alone. There have been hoards of singers who were highly regarded for their voice in their day that had no lasting impact.
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 11:36:21 GMT -5
I'm sticking with my Olivia Newton-John comparison from the other thread (and she's not even as accomplished as Olivia). Olivia stuck around for over a decade scoring Top 10 hits and had a handful of multi-Platinum albums, yet there's nothing about her that made her a "legend" or an "icon". She's a footnote in music history. Someone who was very successful for a period of time but made no significant impact. Olivia wasn't really known for being a great stage performer so that's not a good comparison.
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Post by PDC1987 on Oct 26, 2011 13:08:26 GMT -5
When Xtina gets more solo hits and successful albums people can defend her "status.' As is, her career couldn't even last a decade. Even then, she suffered massive album to album sales declines and massive era to era drops in singles success within that one decade. She's nowhere near getting the most recurrent radio airplay among female acts, she can't tour, etc.
You can go and on about how her voice was influential, but in complete honesty whenever I hear her voice mentioned in basic conversation or on television it's being torn apart, not praised. People don't like incessant screaming and some new bitch decimating the melodies and atmosphere of classic songs with runs and vocal acrobatics that are injected just for the sake of (attempting to) show off.
When I see all these female singers on karaoke shows like AI, and up and coming female acts, I see them imitating the likes of Mariah, Whitney, Celine and a host of old time Traditional Pop singers, not Christina.
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Post by PDC1987 on Oct 26, 2011 13:09:09 GMT -5
I'm sticking with my Olivia Newton-John comparison from the other thread (and she's not even as accomplished as Olivia). Olivia stuck around for over a decade scoring Top 10 hits and had a handful of multi-Platinum albums, yet there's nothing about her that made her a "legend" or an "icon". She's a footnote in music history. Someone who was very successful for a period of time but made no significant impact. Olivia wasn't really known for being a great stage performer so that's not a good comparison. Neither is Xtina, judging by her last attempt at launching a tour.
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Post by franklin on Oct 26, 2011 13:10:25 GMT -5
I don't even care.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 13:16:57 GMT -5
#326
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 26, 2011 14:43:25 GMT -5
BILLY SHEARS summed it up well enough.
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 17:31:14 GMT -5
Olivia wasn't really known for being a great stage performer so that's not a good comparison. Neither is Xtina, judging by her last attempt at launching a tour. So if she's not a great performer, all of these thought leaders are paying her millions for private gigs because...?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 17:35:18 GMT -5
..I see we're still doing this.
(Shockingly) Christina does have fans and I'm sure some of them are bound to have money. Why they'd actually waste so much on her when an ill-tempered cat could produce similar noise is beyond me, but what can you do?
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 17:48:50 GMT -5
..I see we're still doing this. (Shockingly) Christina does have fans and I'm sure some of them are bound to have money. Why they'd actually waste so much on her when an ill-tempered cat could produce similar noise is beyond me, but what can you do? Thanks for the insight but I'll stick with the opinions of the world's movers and shakers.
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Post by think pink. on Oct 26, 2011 18:15:35 GMT -5
Neither is Xtina, judging by her last attempt at launching a tour. So if she's not a great performer, all of these thought leaders are paying her millions for private gigs because...? Not being able to tour is a pretty big indicator that said artist is not viewed as a great performer on a general scale. Having paid gigs here and there does nothing to prove other wise.
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 19:08:55 GMT -5
So if she's not a great performer, all of these thought leaders are paying her millions for private gigs because...? Not being able to tour is a pretty big indicator that said artist is not viewed as a great performer on a general scale. Having paid gigs here and there does nothing to prove other wise. Is Tina Turner not a great performer?
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Post by dbhmr on Oct 26, 2011 19:14:28 GMT -5
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Post by think pink. on Oct 26, 2011 19:51:02 GMT -5
Not being able to tour is a pretty big indicator that said artist is not viewed as a great performer on a general scale. Having paid gigs here and there does nothing to prove other wise. Is Tina Turner not a great performer? Tina's last tour grossed over 100 million dollars.
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Oct 26, 2011 21:07:30 GMT -5
Is Tina Turner not a great performer? Tina's last tour grossed over 100 million dollars. Yeah, I know. For your information, there were points in Tina's career where she was not "able to tour" and she was performing in dinky club lounges. So... ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC, Tina Turner is not a great performer.
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Post by PDC1987 on Oct 26, 2011 22:16:54 GMT -5
Neither is Xtina, judging by her last attempt at launching a tour. So if she's not a great performer, all of these thought leaders are paying her millions for private gigs because...? They're tasteless morons with more money than they know what to do with. J.Lo has also made millions off of playing Birthday parties and other private events. And, please define "thought leaders."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 22:22:10 GMT -5
She's the pop tart with the good voice.....
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Post by PDC1987 on Oct 26, 2011 22:22:45 GMT -5
..I see we're still doing this. (Shockingly) Christina does have fans and I'm sure some of them are bound to have money. Why they'd actually waste so much on her when an ill-tempered cat could produce similar noise is beyond me, but what can you do? Thanks for the insight but I'll stick with the opinions of the world's movers and shakers. The following man was once one of the world's "movers and shakers:" What's your point?
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Post by PDC1987 on Oct 26, 2011 22:25:53 GMT -5
Tina's last tour grossed over 100 million dollars. Yeah, I know. For your information, there were points in Tina's career where she was not "able to tour" and she was performing in dinky club lounges. So... ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC, Tina Turner is not a great performer. Let's not pretend that the times before Tina made her mark as a solo act, and thus a solo touring act, are at all relevant here.
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Post by ingrownhairdyke on Oct 26, 2011 23:02:35 GMT -5
So if she's not a great performer, all of these thought leaders are paying her millions for private gigs because...? They're tasteless morons with more money than they know what to do with. J.Lo has also made millions off of playing Birthday parties and other private events. And, please define "thought leaders." doesn't matter JLO has never gotten paid as much as Christina for a private gig. Christina has had 2 huge world tours, Jlo hasn't. I'd say I'll wait for Christina's next album and to see if she embarks on her world tour to prove u wrong again. Weren't u claiming Burlesque OST was a huge flop, yet its the biggest selling soundtrack of the year.
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Post by Caviar on Oct 26, 2011 23:22:52 GMT -5
This thread is a mess.
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