Kelly Clarkson - "Stronger" Single #4 Discussion

[onefrayedrepublic]

I Forgive You/Let Me Down are the only two sensible wise options. If you must get creative, The War Is Over might also work.

Dark Side is a confirmed flop.

[dbhmr]

Remember this thread? I love all the praise in the main threads so I'll just bring this notion here...

"Stronger" is showing signs of life at Rhythmic. Nothing noteworthy or remarkable yet by any means, but if this song continues to blow up like this, it could get some decent play on this format, and open Kelly to a new audience for her. And since the album skews more pop/rhythmic than any of her albums since Thankful, this might actually be a valuable audience.

With that in mind, it's another demerit to me for picking "I Forgive You" as the third single. It's one of the most straight-up pop/rock songs on the album, and would kill any momentum--however limited--she has with Rhythmic. Not the end of the world, of course, but if--and I realize this is an if--she makes some sort of impact at Rhythmic with "Stronger," "Dark Side" seems like an even more logical follow up, as I see it being the second-most likely song to get Rhythmic play (after "Stronger"...and "Einstein," I suppose, but that won't see the light of radio).

If she follows those two up with something like "The War Is Over," that could also continue getting at least some Rhythmic traction if she has some momentum on that format.

Before people scoff there jaws off, I'm not saying any of these songs are traditional Rhythmic/R&B songs nor radio bait for that format, but I think she has potential to get some play there if "Stronger" sets her up the right way. That might be something worth considering with the single release, because she's not a name on Rhythmic so it's not like she could send out one single to Pop and the other to Rhythmic like a Rihanna or Beyonce.

[Au$tin]

Single-Worthy Material:
You Love Me
Dark Side
The War Is Over
I Forgive You
Let Me Down

I'd be just fine with IFY, LMD, or YLM as the summer single. Then DS can shine, and TWIO after that. Then another single. Again from the IFY/LMD/YLM crowd.

[bb]

I really think it should go like this:

o3.) "Dark Side" [April-June 2012]
o4.) "You Love Me" or "Let Me Down" [July-October 2012]
o5.) (unlikely) "The War is Over" [November 2012-January 2013]

More than a year of domination.

[OneDrag]

3. I Forgive You/ Let Me Down
4. Dark Side
5. You Love Me

[dbhmr]

Feb 8, 2012 17:47:01 GMT -5 OneDrag said:

3. I Forgive You/ Let Me Down
4. Dark Side
5. You Love Me

I'd be good with this, too. I was just presenting the Rhythmic perspective for argument's sake.

[Sesquipedalian]

Feb 8, 2012 17:47:01 GMT -5 OneDrag said:

3. I Forgive You/ Let Me Down
4. Dark Side
5. You Love Me

I agree that one of these 2 should be the third single. Though I'd say the one isn't chosen should be the 4th.

So for me it's:

3. I Forgive You/Let Me Down
4. Let Me Down/I Forgive You

It's possible the CD isn't going 5 singles deep, but if it does then I'd be ok with DS, TWIO, or YLM for number 5.

[kw2004]

I feel like there are 3 more potential singles...
3. I Forgive You - Kelly said it herself, that it's prolly the biggest anthem on the album.
4. Dark Side - It's catchy and most people seem to like it.
5. Let Me Down - traditional Kelly, w/ a catchy chourus

As far as You Love Me and TWIO go, neither one of those would do very well. They're missing the kick for it to be a big hit, esp YLM.

[Smash]

Feb 8, 2012 17:19:02 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Remember this thread? I love all the praise in the main threads so I'll just bring this notion here...

"Stronger" is showing signs of life at Rhythmic. Nothing noteworthy or remarkable yet by any means, but if this song continues to blow up like this, it could get some decent play on this format, and open Kelly to a new audience for her. And since the album skews more pop/rhythmic than any of her albums since Thankful, this might actually be a valuable audience.

With that in mind, it's another demerit to me for picking "I Forgive You" as the third single. It's one of the most straight-up pop/rock songs on the album, and would kill any momentum--however limited--she has with Rhythmic. Not the end of the world, of course, but if--and I realize this is an if--she makes some sort of impact at Rhythmic with "Stronger," "Dark Side" seems like an even more logical follow up, as I see it being the second-most likely song to get Rhythmic play (after "Stronger"...and "Einstein," I suppose, but that won't see the light of radio).

If she follows those two up with something like "The War Is Over," that could also continue getting at least some Rhythmic traction if she has some momentum on that format.

Before people scoff there jaws off, I'm not saying any of these songs are traditional Rhythmic/R&B songs nor radio bait for that format, but I think she has potential to get some play there if "Stronger" sets her up the right way. That might be something worth considering with the single release, because she's not a name on Rhythmic so it's not like she could send out one single to Pop and the other to Rhythmic like a Rihanna or Beyonce.

This is what I've been thinking too. What about "Let Me Down" though? I've always thought it had one of the biggest chances for success on that format out of all the songs on the album.

[OneDrag]

Feb 8, 2012 17:52:21 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Feb 8, 2012 17:47:01 GMT -5 OneDrag said:

3. I Forgive You/ Let Me Down
4. Dark Side
5. You Love Me

I'd be good with this, too. I was just presenting the Rhythmic perspective for argument's sake.

The momentum that "Kill" has created is very similar to what "Since U Been Gone" did for the Breakaway album and I feel like releasing the obvious hits first is the best plan of attack. "Let Me Down" is so much in the vain of "Hazel Eyes" that it could definitely do some damage and "I Forgive You" being the most pop friendly record could also keep the momentum going. "Dark Side" would be the perfect fall single and could be the "Already Gone" of this era but with better digital sales. I want Kelly to end the era with "You Love Me" since it's such a great record that it deserves a chance to shine and I honestly think it could go top 10 if the momentum was there from the previous singles.

[SPRΞΞ]

please let it be Dark Side. It could bring her to Breakaway's level of momentum. IFU is too safe. It may succeed, but it doesn't catapult her to superstardom like DS would. DS would sell albums, and it would be a nail in the coffin as to why she is a star in the first place. IFU would just be another poppy Kelly jingle. I feel she is in her prime moment cuz of this #1, and she needs to drive it home. Release Dark Side, and show the world what you're capable of. It's the best song of her career.

[lum]

Dark Side. IFY is way below Kelly's standards at this point. What she needs now is a unique "Kelly Clarkson" song that has the potential to solidify and possibly boost her star status, and IFY is certainly not one. It just sounds like a generic song that any pop chick can pull off, and more importantly, one that no one will bother to remember in 6 months.
After that, I hope Let Me Down or You Love Me gets a release.

[wallace]

I still think, when it comes to picking a last single for the era, assuming we've seen four hits already, You Can't Win would be as good or better a choice for radio than You Love Me. I love both songs, and I know how much Kelly loves You Love Me, but You Can't Win has a lighter, more accessible sound and may have a more relatable theme.

[Almost Honest]

Can't they just release all the songs as singles!

But really in all seriousness after seeing how Mr. Know It All and Stronger brought her back to radio for the first time in a long time in a BIG way, I don't think it's really going to matter if it is Dark Side or I Forgive You because either way they are better than most of what is on radio right now. I know (considering how the AIEW era went) that anything could go wrong. But I really think that the pop radio format now is a lot more diversified compared to what pop radio was like in 2009/10. Either way I think this album has a strong staying power that I could see more than 4/5 singles being released off of it.

[Hellfire]

Trying to move the discussion here instead of getting Franklin's "Dark Side" thread too congested and/or locked.

I will eat my words against "I Forgive You" if it does well if in the event that it's released as a single, but I just don't see it happening. I would much prefer "Let Me Down" to be released. We've already seen some stations latch onto it in the belief that it was the first single. Plus, Kelly needs a co-write as a single. As much as people call it "dated," I just don't see that. Sure, it may be have some rockier elements to it, but it's not straight out of 2005 or anything. It has some cool synth-y sounds that give it more of an electronic, current sound. Plus, it's different from a lot of what's on the radio, which may be refreshing to some people, especially to those who are fans of pop-rock. It is, though, essentially a pop song, not a rock song. However, I think that RCA may have spent some big bucks on Darkchild to get that song on the album, and that makes me believe that it will see a release. Of course, this is all my opinion.

[Cunthia Rosenhooker]

Changed the title

As I said in the DS thread, I think this is pretty much a HAC album. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it makes things tricky because the road to a top 10 hit these days mostly runs through CHR. Whatever they pick won't be horribly off, but it won't be a 100% fit for CHR either and it will entirely depend on the format's mood at the time. Even if they send out songs for callout testing and get good feedback, you just never know if CHR will really gravitate to it, play it moderately, or ignore it altogether.

I will say that at this point I don't think RCA has much to worry about. The main goal for this era should have been to a) cement Kelly's relevant-pop-star status (after AIEW, it was a bit uncertain) and b) get to platinum. Point a has been accomplished via two top ten hits and a ton of well-planned promo and appearances, and point b should happen by the end of the year. So this is one reason why I really think the reaction to DS's performance so far is overblown. Sure a follow-up smash is always the desirable option, but realistically what would that have accomplished for Kelly that WDKY didn't already handle, other than some extra TEA sales? I do hope that DS eventually does better and gets the props it deserves, but really, this era is fine.

Anyway, I'm going to assume a late August or September adds date for single #4, under the belief that DS will peak in the top 5 on HAC sometime in August. For the lulz, let's star off with...

- Alone - obviously not getting released because it's a bonus track. You know what though? I actually think that this was the safest choice on the album, after WDKY. Mainly because it sounds spot-on like something Katy Perry would sing (only with even better vocals) and goodness knows CHR can't get enough of her right now. It's fun to pick at clarksonnumber1 for bringing it up so much but he's actually not that much off the mark for his love of this song.
- Let Me Down - iffy because we haven't had a pop-rock hit in a while, and it is not that the sound in general is dated but the fact that CHR just won't play the genre, among others that it is also snubbing. LMD got a GREAT reaction when it leaked, but IIRC the stations that did start spinning it were all HAC. That said, because this is the one song that we actually got to see get some feedback and because that feedback was so hugely positive, it's the one I would choose next. It's explosive, the hook is an earworm, and the bridge is killer in the way that only a Kelly Clarkson bridge can be.
- I Forgive You - personally I'm not a fan of this basic azz song, but objectively I do get its appeal. It is simple and breezy and the message is relatable. Like LMD though, it is iffy because of its pop/rock sound, and I don't find it as strong as LMD either lyrically or melodically so I'm not too keen on it. I'm not opposed to it either though. I think it is the kind of song that will be a moderate hit at best and then forgotten as soon as its run is over.
- You Love Me - I effing love this song. I am always mystified by people who say it has no melody or hook because to me it has both in spades. That said, this song is musically a bit...heavier? than most other songs on the album. Maybe that is why people think it has no radio appeal. I would love for it to be a fifth and final single from the era, if we are lucky enough to see this album go five singles deep.
- The War Is Over - strong ballad that is perfectly suited for fall or winter and I can see a lot of girls tweeting or facebooking the lyrics about their exes. However, if DS doesn't do well on pop then I think following with an even slower ballad would be the worst choice to make as a fourth single. This is another song better served as a fifth single, after something else uptempo has been sent out.
- Honestly - I know people don't think this is a great choice and I completely understand why, but I can't help but think that if this was sent out in the fall it would absolutely SMASH HAC and AC, which would eventually result in some increased CHR spins too. That alone would probably get her a top 20 hit and make it worth the release IMO. It's just got that haunting ethereal vibe that is perfect for fall/winter. Probably not gonna happen b/c they already threw Kurstin a thank-you bone with DS.
- Hello - you know, for all the screeching over fan favorites that should never be picked, this is the song I am always most surprised to see mentioned as a should-be single. And mind you, this is one of my most favorite songs on the album. But I would never assume this 90's Sheryl Crow throwback would ever do anything on pop.
- none of the other songs on the album are anywhere near consideration so I won't discuss them

So that was a lot of blather but to sum up what I would do, and what I think they will actually do:
- me - LMD fourth, YLM or Honestly fifth
- what they'll probably do - IFY or LMD fourth, fifth single unlikely but if they do have one they'll throw Kelly a bone and let it be a song she co-wrote

[Sesquipedalian]

Feb 8, 2012 18:16:57 GMT -5 Sesquipedalian said:

Feb 8, 2012 17:47:01 GMT -5 OneDrag said:

3. I Forgive You/ Let Me Down
4. Dark Side
5. You Love Me

I agree that one of these 2 should be the third single. Though I'd say the one isn't chosen should be the 4th.

So for me it's:

3. I Forgive You/Let Me Down
4. Let Me Down/I Forgive You

It's possible the CD isn't going 5 singles deep, but if it does then I'd be ok with DS, TWIO, or YLM for number 5.

My picks for single three are now my preferred selections for single four ("Let Me Down" and "I Forgive You"). If there's a 5th single (doubtful at this point since "Dark Side" seems to sucking some serious momentum out of the era), then I would like it to be other one of the two.

[SPRΞΞ]

I Forgive You is the next logical choice.

[bb]

Mainly I don't see "I Forgive You"'s appeal because I dislike it so strongly, but I also don't think it's that memorable or exciting. That may play in its advantage, as honestly most of the songs that are smashing right now have that same quality, but "I Forgive You" is so bland and one-note (literally) that I struggle with the suggestion.

I'm inclined to say "Let Me Down" should be sent out next and most of that is through process of elimination and not actual support of the song as a potential smash. The album lacks pop hits and its something we've all grown accustomed to over the past few months, trying to guess what will be sent out next. If it was a clear cut answer like SPREE is saying it is ("I Forgive You" is the only logical choice), there would be no arguments and no disagreements and "I Forgive You" would have been sent out over "Dark Side", a song I love that is handily killing all of "Stronger"'s momentum.

I say "Let Me Down" only because it's catchy and explosive and very Kelly, which adds to the recognition (something IFY lacks) and her live performances are some of her best of any song. The worry with "Let Me Down" is that it is heavy and has a rockier, rougher sound-- artists who used to have that sound, namely Pink, have polished it since then (Pink's Funhouse turned into "Blow Me (One Last Kiss)") and for good reason. "Hazel Eyes" might not have been a hit in 2012 and maybe even "Since U Been Gone" could use a few synths and pounding beats.

After that it is up in the air, mainly because the likelihood of RCA releasing a fifth single is so low that I might be wasting my time writing this little paragraph. I want "The War is Over" (and I think Kelly does too-- she's been performing it quite a bit lately), but I also love "You Love Me" and Kelly CERTAINLY wants that one to be sent out.

Following Cynthia's lead:

I want ---> "Let Me Down", "The War is Over"
RCA wants/will have ---> "I Forgive You", maybe "You Love Me"

[Envoirment]

I think "You Love Me" would make a great 4th single for late summer/early autumn. It's my favourite on the album and oozes radio appeal in my opinion. It's also the second most instant song on the album for me (after "Stronger (WDKY)") and has a great sing-a-long chorus. I really think it could do well. However, "Let Me Down" also seems a good choice as it's classic Kelly and is a great song too. I would love them to send out "You Love Me" and follow it up with "Let Me Down". Then send out "The War Is Over" as a 6th single!

[Censor]

Jul 5, 2012 8:12:12 GMT -5 Envoirment said:

I would love them to send out "You Love Me" and follow it up with "Let Me Down". Then send out "The War Is Over" as a 6th single!

If only.

[Illusions]

I Forgive You should be next followed by You Love Me and end with The War Is Over as a HAC single.

I agree with Cynthia about Alone. I always thought it would be a good single, but it will never happen.

[Au$tin]

I want YLM and or LMD released some time just for selfish reasons.

IFY is probably the best choice for the next single, though.

[Hook]

I would go with I Forgive You next, with The War Is Over as the final single. I don't believe the final single will get all that much airplay on CHR regardless of what it is, so I think TWIO would be perfect for Hot AC.

I personally would love to see Let Me Down released, but I don't believe it would do as well as IFY.

[Ch, r. is]

I went through the album again a couple times yesterday to see what I can imagine radio playing.

"I Forgive You" and even "Hello" would probably be the best options to follow up Dark Side's under performance on pop.

I'm still hoping we can end the era with "You Love Me", but I have to admit that "Alone" is the better 80s-inspired track out of the two. YLM's tempo kind of drags while Alone is extremeley upbeat and catchy. Plus that intro >

I still think The War Is Over is best suited as a country / HAC single only.

[dbhmr]

I still think the best course of action, as I explained in the Dark Side thread, is to wait a week and then, if it hasn't bounced back a bit on Pop, send out a beat-heavy remix of "Dark Side" to radio and iTunes with a banner to get people interested in the song again. The chorus and bridge are explosive, but it may just take too long to get there for people interested in hearing something more like "Stronger" from her.

Anyway, the reason I'm even talking about the third single is I think it's relevant as to what follows and when. The issue with the third single as it stands is that it's doing well on HAC, which is becoming her core format, if it really hasn't already. So we can't just kill it. If Dark Side gets to #1 on HAC (or close to it) and does well enough on Pop eventually (top 10), then I think we go:

4. Let Me Down
5. I Forgive You

If those see success, check in with where Kelly is on the progress of album number six. If it's close to being done, wrap up the era. If s**t leaks and we're in for another wait, send out "You Love Me" to close the era with no video/promotion and it could probably get to top 10 on HAC on her name and momentum alone, which will be important for her continuing to establish herself as the queen of that format. If those don't see success, stop there. If "Let Me Down" under performs, I'd skip "I Forgive You" and go for "You Love Me." I don't see the harm in trying something a bit more new like "You Love Me" just to see if it sticks/interests enough people.

If "Dark Side" does well on HAC (top 5) and slowly chugs to the #15-23 range on Pop, send out:

4. I Forgive You
5. You Love Me

Then see above. The era won't have enough strength at this point to sustain a riskier fourth single, and may not sustain a fifth single at all.

If "Dark Side" slides down Pop without ever reaching Top 30, and its sales (single and album) from however it's performing on HAC aren't enough to keep either afloat, cut your HAC losses and send out "I Forgive You" with an adds date in the first week of August. If that performs well, see Plan 2, if the era's momentum is truly sapped, get her ass into gear on album #6 and release a single by March of next year while people still remember "Stronger," the single.

"Hello" and "Alone" don't stand a chance of being release. I love the former, like the latter, but I just don't see it. She never even talks about them, and has only performed "Hello" once.

[MRT]

4th single should be LMD/IFY (I'm leaning toward LMD at the moment)
5th single LMD/IFY/YLM