Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Dec 17, 2014 12:21:40 GMT -5
There are people who have been nominated and some that have even gotten in that are not "rock stars". Whitney was an incredible singer who influenced many including Mariah. However, she was handed songs while Mariah has written and produced the majority of her material, created classic songs in the process, played a big role in blending pop and hip hop tunes that was not just created as album cuts but put out as singles and being heard all around. She has been just as influential to many in the industry and upcoming singers. While Whitney is a great singer, Mariah is a great artist. If you're expecting Mariah to get nominated next year, let alone get in, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The inductees generally lean toward the rock genre and acts that have received quite a bit of critical acclaim. Mariah doesn't fit into either of those categories. Bill Withers is the only regular inductee this year who isn't a rock act, and he's been eligible almost 20 years at this point. I'm not expecting her to get in at all.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 17, 2014 12:47:15 GMT -5
leon- it's not about popularity.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 17, 2014 13:14:53 GMT -5
RE Benatar- I just think her impact and influence on female acts is of a similar level to the likes of Heart and Joan Jett. Her Greatest Hits has comments from some of those women (i.e. Martina McBride, Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan, Go-Gos, etc.) Plus, "Heartbreaker," "Hit Me With Your Best Shot," "Love is a Battlefield" and "We Belong"-classic radio staples. Wouldn't Pat also be considered one of the first major female rock stars? She also embraced videos and used them to her advantage. Treat Me Right was the 2nd video played on MTV. (Before Madonna, I loved Pat Benatar.) Pat is also tours extensively today garnering excellent reviews. Just like Heart... Her albums "Crimes of Passion" and "Precious Time" were huge in the early 1980s.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 17, 2014 13:55:00 GMT -5
^Same with I- loved pat when I was just a youngin' of 5. Given Heart and Joan Jett, the committee definitely should be looking more seriously at Pat in coming years.
(A note: it was "You Better Run" that supposedly was the second clip played on MTV).
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Dec 17, 2014 16:04:45 GMT -5
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 17, 2014 16:25:49 GMT -5
The Joan Jett election baffles me a bit. It seems that the Runaways did more for Rock N Roll than he Blackhearts did. Yes, if Joan Jett gets in Pat Benetar is a similar style.
The Go-Go's is another one that seems overlooked
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 17, 2014 16:35:10 GMT -5
With the addition of Ringo Starr (first inductee to be elected in different categories, performer, musical excellence)
Update to the multiple inductees list
Multiple Inductees 3 Eric Clapton Yardbirds, Cream, solo
2 Jef Beck Yardbirds, solo
David Crosby Byrds & CSN
Peter Gabriel Genesis, solo
The 4 Beatles together, apart
Michael Jackson Jackson 5, solo
Curtis Mayfield Impressions, solo
Clyde McPhatter Drifters, solo
Graham Nash Hollies, CSN
Jimmy Page Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin
Lou Reed Velvet Underground.solo
Paul Simon Simon & Garfunkel, solo
Rod Stewart Faces, solo
Stephen Stills Buffalo Springfield, CSN
Sammy Strain O'Jays, Little Anthony & The Imperials
Ronnie Wood Rolling Stones, Faces
Neil Young Buffalo Springfield, solo
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 17, 2014 22:11:31 GMT -5
10 worst Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductions of all time nypost.com/2014/12/17/the-10-worst-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inductees-of-all-time/On the latest list of inductees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, we have Lou Reed (too late, but well-deserved), Green Day (they’re hardly the Clash, but they’ve endured) and . . . Joan Jett and the Blackhearts? Is this the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or the One-Hit Wonder Emporium? OK, Joan & Co. had a few hits — mostly written by others. In addition to their (cover) of “I Love Rock ’n’ Roll,” a No. 1 hit in 1982, they hit the top 20 with (cover) “Crimson and Clover” and (cover) “Do You Wanna Touch Me (Oh Yeah),” as well as “Little Liar” (beats me, I don’t remember it either) and “I Hate Myself for Loving You,” a cheerful little rocker now best known as the basis for the Sunday Night Football theme song. The latter two are the only hits Jett ever wrote — and for this, she’s a Hall of Famer? If the Baseball Hall of Fame worked like that, Aaron Boone would be in it for putting the Yankees in the 2003 World Series with one swing of the bat. Is ex-New York Giant David Tyree (54 career receptions) going to make it to the Football Hall of Fame for making the helmet catch in the 2008 Super Bowl? Let’s take a look at some of the most indefensible previous inductees. The Staple Singers (1999) Legendary gospel vocalists, but rock isn’t a church choir. (Later they evolved into a chart-topping R&B act.) Lloyd Price (1998) Who? Oh yeah, he sang “Personality.” Good for him, but that doesn’t make him a Hall of Famer. Dusty Springfield (1999) An able peddler of heavily produced, tear duct-attacking pop overload, Springfield hit No. 1 in the UK in 1966 with “You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me” and had five other top 20 hits, all of them written by others. In the land of giants, she’s a kewpie doll with an overactive crying function. James Taylor (2000) A sleep aid, not a rocker. Excuse me, just writing his name made me so mellow I have to go take a nap. Ritchie Valens (2001) Valens is remembered for “La Bamba,” and for dying in a plane crash with Buddy Holly in 1959 on “the day the music died,” but even if you gave him credit for inspiring “American Pie,” that’s not enough — especially since Don McLean isn’t in the Hall of Fame. Gene Pitney (2002) The clean-cut, turtleneck-wearing geek had a handful of minor hits, such as forgotten jingle-jangle fluff like “(The Man Who Shot) Liberty Valance,” which was so insipid it was cut from the movie. Leonard Cohen (2008) Call him a folkie, call him a poet, call him a wandering minstrel — but no one would call him a rocker. ABBA (2010) Love those sweet Scandinavians and their wedding-cake arrangements, but you have to have some semblance of a hard edge to be rock, and these guys had as much edge as a Swedish meatball. Why not start your own pop palace, and bring the Bee Gees (1997) with you? Donna Summer (2013) A mesmerizing, era-defining figure — in the realm of disco. Run-D.M.C. (2009) A momentary association with Aerosmith does not make you a rock act. It isn’t called the “Rap and Roll Hall of Fame.” Same goes for you, Public Enemy (2013).
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Dec 17, 2014 22:47:09 GMT -5
Ugh, another guy who thinks hard rock is the be all / end all definition of what should be inducted.
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Dec 27, 2014 7:57:09 GMT -5
I expect Smashing Pumpkins to make the ballot next year. At their peak they made some fantastic stuff!
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 29, 2014 9:51:55 GMT -5
Yes, there certainly was an edge to Donna Summer's work. ABBA, not so much, but, by now, everyone should know the HOF isn't just rock music, despite its name.
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swim
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Post by swim on Jan 19, 2015 9:33:09 GMT -5
Got tickets to this, can't wait! I like the variety in the inductees this year, should be a good show. Also glad Ringo will be there!!!
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Jan 20, 2015 3:09:11 GMT -5
^Very cool!
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Jan 24, 2015 7:33:57 GMT -5
I'm curious if the nomination committee will seriously consider A Tribe Called Quest. I certainly hope so!
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 10, 2015 10:33:09 GMT -5
Inside Jann Wenner's Top-Secret Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Process News /News |Legal and Management |TV / Film By Rob Tannenbaum | April 10, 2015 11:00 AM EDT
Artists such as Janet Jackson, Trent Reznor, Mariah Carey and the Sex Pistols’ Johnny Rotten have faced opposition from the Rock Hall’s greying voters.
When the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominating committee meets in New York every September, they nibble on sushi and Carnegie Deli sandwiches, and decide which artists to place on that year's election ballot. The committee members -- successful musicians, record executives, writers and historians -- remain cordial even when they disagree, with one exception: the annual arguments that raged about Kiss.
Green Day, Joan Jett, Stevie Ray Vaughan & Bill Withers to Join Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Whenever Kiss was mentioned, "there were fireworks," says one attendee. Several people in the room recall hearing the phrase "over my dead body." Some on the committee see membership in the Rock Hall as the ultimate stamp of credibility; they viewed Kiss, a popular and crass band, not with skepticism, but with disgust. Dave Marsh, an author and committee member, said Kiss embodies "music at its most mercantile and shallow." Then Tom Morello, from Rage Against the Machine, joined the committee as part of an effort to make it younger and more diverse (he’s African-American). At his first meeting, in 2013, he launched into what one witness calls "a rant" in praise of Kiss. He persuaded the committee to nominate the band, and a few months later, welcomed Kiss into the Hall of Fame.
On April 18, at Public Hall in Cleveland, the Hall will welcome eight new acts, including Green Day, Lou Reed and Joan Jett, who will join the pantheon of previous inductees, from Elvis Presley to Nirvana. This year marks the 30th ceremony, and people inside the Hall think the induction of Kiss (as well as the 2012 inductions of Rush and Heart) signals the start of a new era, short on consensus honorees, as the institution faces increasingly difficult choices between commerce and art, theater and substance, critical acclaim and massive success.
Ace Frehley and Gene Simmons of Kiss and Tom Morello pose onstage at the 29th Annual Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Induction Ceremony at Barclays Center in Brooklyn. Kevin Kane/WireImage Artists become eligible for nomination 25 years after their first recording, which means the Hall will now begin considering acts from the 1990s, an era when traditional rock all but disappeared, and music splintered into subgenres. If significant pioneers like The Stooges (inducted on their eighth nomination) and the Sex Pistols (who failed on their first five ballots) had trouble getting inducted, how much harder will it be for Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson and other recent pop stars? "It was easy enough in the beginning," says Jann Wenner, 69, chairman of the Rock Hall Foundation and founder, editor and publisher of Rolling Stone. "But at this point, all the clear, obvious people have been inducted, and it comes down to personal taste."
"With Chuck Berry or The Rolling Stones, the decision was a no-brainer," adds a nominating committee veteran. "There aren’t many no-brainers now."
Joan Jett: 'There Should Be More Women' in the Rock Hall of Fame
There are significant benefits to induction, both emotional and financial: Sales of Fleetwood Mac albums increased 600 percent when it entered the Hall in 1998, and after their inductions, Wanda Jackson and Roy Orbison had lion-in-winter renaissances. It’s difficult to predict the Hall’s future decisions, however, because the committee deliberates behind a moated wall. In 2011, Jon Landau, 67 -- who manages Bruce Springsteen and chairs the nominating committee -- told The New York Times, "We’ve done a good job of keeping the proceedings nontransparent. It all dies in the room." When Billboard approached committee members for interviews, even people known for being outspoken turned silent. A prominent music publicist said his artists were "all scared to talk," even though several "have hard-ons for the Hall. They’re afraid of not getting inducted."
Eventually, 10 current and former committee members agreed to talk, either on background or not for attribution, and a clear picture of the future emerged: If the electorate doesn’t continue to change, the Hall could turn into a high-tech Madame Tussauds.
Currently, 41 VIPs make up the nominating committee. During meetings, each can nominate up to three acts. After much discussion, members vote by secret ballot for 10 favorites. The 15 acts with the most votes are placed on another ballot, which is sent to a larger panel of voters -- at last count, there were 810, including all Hall members. (Disclosure: I’ve been a voter for several years, and have written for Rolling Stone.) The ballots are returned and counted. The seven acts with the most votes are inducted, though the board of directors has the discretion to eliminate qualifiers with the least support.
Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder & Patti Smith to Present at Rock Hall Ceremony
Because there’s little transparency in the process, conspiracy theories abound, especially ones that portray Wenner as a puppet master. The Hall of Fame Foundation’s two staff members work in the offices of Wenner Media, and the foundation pays rent to Wenner Media for the space it uses. "Jann has completely taken over," says a disillusioned committee member, pointing to Wenner’s influence on board membership and foundation employees. "He doesn’t try to rig anything, but it’s the Jann Wenner show." Though Wenner is not on the nominating committee, it is stacked with current and former Rolling Stone writers and editors, which perpetuates the magazine’s vision of rock’s Great Works. "I understand the basis of [the conspiracy theories]," says Wenner, "but I don’t care about the speculation. After doing this for 30 years, nobody’s ever found any credible charge of chicanery or undue influence."
The Hall’s mission is to honor "musical excellence and influence," says Joel Peresman, president/CEO of the Hall of Fame Foundation, a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) charity. Notions of excellence are subjective, and the objective standard of record sales (often cited by advocates of The Monkees, Chicago and Janet Jackson, among others) doesn’t sway the Hall -- popularity "can be a marker of artistic excellence," says Wenner, but it’s not a primary consideration. Historically, the Hall (just like Rolling Stone) has favored earnest, guitar-based rock acts over top 40 stars. Committee members "see themselves as keepers of the flame of integrity," says an insider.
The committee has often been justly criticized for being homogenous -- "too old, too male, too white, too rich," says a former member. There are six women and seven people of color among the 41 members. In the last decade, "we’ve made a conscious effort to diversify it," says Wenner. In 2006, several stalwarts were dethroned: "I was fired for being too old. That’s what I was told," says one. (Wenner counters that anyone who was kicked off "wasn’t being useful.") Younger members have been added, including Morello, 50, and The Roots drummer Ahmir "Questlove" Thompson, 44.
Morello’s successful advocacy for Kiss shows how influential new members have been. In his first year, Questlove pushed pop act Hall & Oates onto the ballot, after others had tried and failed; "he worked the room like Frank Underwood works Congress," one member says. And yet, the source adds, the balance of power is still with the elders: "Like anything boomer-centric, people are going to hold on to it as if their lives depend on it. You’ll have to pry the Hall of Fame from their cold, dead fingers."
Ringo Starr on 'Thrill' of Upcoming Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction
Many committee members expressed frustration with the larger body of voters, who are more conservative and usually overlook rappers. One year, LL Cool J was the artist who garnered the most votes in the nominating committee meeting; he’s been on the ballot three times, and voters have passed over him each time. "The nominating committee is a more educated, elite and sophisticated group of people," says Wenner. "The broader voters are more like me -- I loved a certain period of music, but I’m not deeply committed to knowing everything that’s going on."
The committee’s track record in recognizing such rock ’n’ roll offshoots as hip-hop, metal and alternative rock has been spotty. They view The Cure (eligible since 2003) and Depeche Mode (since 2006) as weird outcasts from England who wear mascara, rather than post-punk and electronic pioneers who still headline festivals and sell out arenas. "You and I will die before those groups are in the Hall of Fame," an insider predicts.
Gene Simmons of Kiss sums up the frequent criticism that the Hall neglects hard-rock and prog-rock bands. "Patti Smith is in before Deep Purple?" he exclaims. "Talking Heads, but not Yes? It started as a great idea, but it has become a sham."
There’s an ironic, boomerang effect to the Hall’s skepticism of popular bands, from Depeche Mode to Journey: Both the museum and the telecast benefit from having more popular acts. HBO’s initial airing of the 2014 ceremony, featuring Kiss, Hall & Oates and Nirvana, averaged 918,000 viewers, according to Nielsen data -- a huge gain over 2013 (593,000) and a far cry from 2009 to 2011, when the broadcast, on Fuse, didn’t even meet Nielsen’s minimum reporting threshold. "The average age of Fuse viewers was 25, and this is a show that was honoring The Platters," says a prominent TV executive.
To imagine how the Hall will react when it begins to scrutinize bands from the ’90s and beyond, it’s instructive to consider the musicians being inducted this month. Of the six acts in the performer category, only Green Day is contemporary. Two are being inducted for their ’70s music (Reed, Bill Withers), two debuted in the early ’80s (Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts), and voters reached back to the ’60s for The Paul Butterfield Blues Band, which had been eligible since 1989. The Hall had a chance to elect some great ’80s acts -- Nine Inch Nails, The Smiths, Whitney Houston, Duran Duran, The Replacements and N.W.A -- but punted. The distant past is always a safe place for the Hall to revisit.
This article first appeared in the April 18 issue of Billboard.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 10, 2015 12:58:31 GMT -5
Yes, there certainly was an edge to Donna Summer's work. ABBA, not so much, but, by now, everyone should know the HOF isn't just rock music, despite its name. Sure, but I think there needs to be more clarity about it. It's weird that older R&B acts like Gladys Knight are in and that pop acts like Madonna are in, yet Barbra Streisand and Whitney Houston aren't 'rock' enough. Where is the line?
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HoldTight
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Post by HoldTight on Apr 10, 2015 13:10:32 GMT -5
Yes, there certainly was an edge to Donna Summer's work. ABBA, not so much, but, by now, everyone should know the HOF isn't just rock music, despite its name. Sure, but I think there needs to be more clarity about it. It's weird that older R&B acts like Gladys Knight are in and that pop acts like Madonna are in, yet Barbra Streisand and Whitney Houston aren't 'rock' enough. Where is the line? Babs and Whitney also have MOR catalogs.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 10, 2015 14:48:44 GMT -5
Plus, Madonna was/is very rock-n-roll in the way she approaches her work and presents it- she's always projected a R&R attitude. Obviously, that wouldn't hold for some inductees, but, aside from everything else Madonna has going for her, it doesn't hurt.
Anyway, "rock" is just an umbrella term, remember- acts of other genres have been nominated/inducted.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 10, 2015 15:02:25 GMT -5
The article above makes some interesting comments about "rock"
- Most of the obvious choices are already in. - 1990 is now the starting year for eligibility, a year that started the beginning of the end for traditional rock bands. - The track record of recognizing non-rock acts historically had been spotty at best (As this thread has discussed many times, why Madonna and not Janet Jackson or Whitney, etc.) - The choices going forward will be harder, unless they go back in time and fill in the ones that they clearly have missed (Pat Benetar, etc.)
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HoldTight
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Post by HoldTight on Apr 10, 2015 15:08:42 GMT -5
- The track record of recognizing non-rock acts historically had been spotty at best (As this thread has discussed many times, why Madonna and not Janet Jackson or Whitney, etc.) Because Janet and Whitney don't have three albums at or above 80 on Metacritic, for just 1 of 1,000 reasons.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 10, 2015 15:17:05 GMT -5
^I don't necessarily think that the committee is looking at Metacritic (as that's, for the most part, a sampling of initial reviews when an album's released), but level of acclaim would play a role in many cases.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 11, 2015 8:58:19 GMT -5
- The track record of recognizing non-rock acts historically had been spotty at best (As this thread has discussed many times, why Madonna and not Janet Jackson or Whitney, etc.) Because Janet and Whitney don't have three albums at or above 80 on Metacritic, for just 1 of 1,000 reasons. Janet might if 80s and 90s albums were included. Control, Rhythm Nation, and janet. are legit classics. Again, it's weird that Donna Summer, Gladys Knight, etc. are considered "rock" enough, while Whitney, Janet, etc. are not. No one has really addressed that issue.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 11, 2015 9:31:43 GMT -5
^I kinda did in a recent post- it's not necessarily about being "rock" enough, at least for all acts. I don't think there's a standard thought process for each and every nominee/inductee- no cut-and-dry, across-the-board reasoning.
Some of the older acts, even if they're of a non-rock genre, voters could feel they influenced/had an impact on the evolution of rock-and-roll.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 14, 2015 19:32:31 GMT -5
Some of the older acts, even if they're of a non-rock genre, voters could feel they influenced/had an impact on the evolution of rock-and-roll. And it's clear acts like Streisand and Carey have influenced other acts, yet they aren't likely to get in.
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trustypepper
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Post by trustypepper on Apr 14, 2015 20:41:37 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there:
If you guys are ever in Cleveland, don't miss the chance to visit the Rock & Roll HOF Museum. It's really, really nice and a must for hardcore music fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 21:24:36 GMT -5
Pat Benatar should be in here.
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Landmarx
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Post by Landmarx on Apr 14, 2015 21:29:41 GMT -5
Pat Benatar should be in here. They're going to make sure at least one woman is in each year's class. My prediction is they'll either go for Eurythmics or Pat Benatar, or clear the deck for the Marvelettes to finally get in.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 14, 2015 21:36:00 GMT -5
Yes.. If the Wilson sisters and Joan Jett are in, no reason for Pat Benatar not to be. By the way- I may be interviewing Pat in advance of an upcoming show in the local area. One of my all-time favorites- I may not be able to handle it. (And I thought interviewing Ann Wilson was a highlight.)
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Apr 18, 2015 8:45:09 GMT -5
@nprmusic tweetFrom @nprmusic: Of the 726 artists inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame since the ceremony began in 1986, only 65 have been women.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 18, 2015 9:51:45 GMT -5
The genre call "rock n roll" has always been male dominated. That said are deserving women not in, GoGo's, Runaways, Pat Benetar for example
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