carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Oct 22, 2012 20:51:24 GMT -5
Doesn't really matter as far as her sales are concerned - if they're deemed country, they'll all be high on the chart: see: Red, the week it went up for sale. Debuted at #2 from zero airplay on any format.
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hank0629
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Post by hank0629 on Oct 22, 2012 21:22:51 GMT -5
I'll believe that when I see it, considering the pop mix of WANEGBT is the one giving the song its current Hot Country Songs chart position. May I direct you here: www.billboard.com/news#/news/psy-still-stuck-at-no-2-as-maroon-5-tops-1007982722.story(Due to its pure pop, even dubstep-leaning, sound, "Trouble" does not appear on the newly-revamped Country Songs chart, which, as of last week, now blends airplay, sales and streaming data; it's also not being promoted to country radio. "Never" spends a second week atop the tally).Haha, funny! "Red" is pure pop, and it's also not being promoted to country radio. Then why can "Red" appear on the Hot Country Songs chart? Don't lie, Billboard!
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Arabella21
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Post by Arabella21 on Oct 22, 2012 21:33:21 GMT -5
I don't know, I think Red sounds enough like some of Taylor's previous songs that have gotten country airplay where I can see why Billboard would consider it country. What was so "country" about Sparks Fly? It just doesn't have the stutter effect in it that Red does.
But this is an...interesting path Billboard is going down, declaring whether or not songs are country/R&B/etc. enough for a particular genre chart. I think the country industry should just boycott Billboard Country Update, though, and only put ads in Country Aircheck Weekly, until Billboard relents and tweaks the new chart rules some.
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peterca
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Post by peterca on Oct 22, 2012 21:36:01 GMT -5
Doesn't really matter as far as her sales are concerned - if they're deemed country, they'll all be high on the chart: see: Red, the week it went up for sale. Debuted at #2 from zero airplay on any format. I am curious as to which songs will be deemed country. From the many reviews, the reviewers think that almost all the songs are pop.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 22, 2012 21:40:40 GMT -5
It will definitely be interesting to see how many of her songs Billboard classifies as country.
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zaclord 🌈
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Post by zaclord 🌈 on Oct 22, 2012 23:19:26 GMT -5
The only ones that should be on the country chart are "Begin Again", "All Too Well", "Treacherous", "Stay Stay Stay", "Sad Beautiful Tragic", and "I Almost Do".
But all the songs are less or as poppy as "We Are Never" (except Trouble) so I expect all of them to be on the country chart.
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Post by tim on Oct 22, 2012 23:26:32 GMT -5
this is just ridiculous. I have been a follower of Billboard forever, but after this I have given up on their credibility, especially with the historical significance of charting songs. As an actual sometimes fan of Taylor's music I find this may only turn me against her...as in I will probably just switch the station when I hear her music. At this point I am Taylored out and believe she is over-saturating herself. Blame this on Big Machine I guess...???
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Oct 22, 2012 23:41:38 GMT -5
BTW Carrie Fans, much of the record has a similar melodic theme to the track "Blown Away." By that token, they should be 'country' songs if Carrie's song is country, no?
Just curious what Carrie's fans think of this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 23:57:06 GMT -5
this is just ridiculous. I have been a follower of Billboard forever, but after this I have given up on their credibility, especially with the historical significance of charting songs. As an actual sometimes fan of Taylor's music I find this may only turn me against her...as in I will probably just switch the station when I hear her music. At this point I am Taylored out and believe she is over-saturating herself. Blame this on Big Machine I guess...??? This is kinda how I feel as well. Only I don't think you can pin this on Big Machine...Billboard changed a lot of different genre charts, not just the country one. It just so happens that this new methodology will really benefit Taylor. I do like her and some of her music, but I think the methodology behind this new version of Hot Country Songs is bogus. BTW Carrie Fans, much of the record has a similar melodic theme to the track "Blown Away." By that token, they should be 'country' songs if Carrie's song is country, no? Just curious what Carrie's fans think of this. Uh...this is gonna start a fan war. And I don't really get what you're asking? Sure, "Blown Away" sounds pop-ish. And many of Taylor's songs do (though I don't think any of them really sound like BA). The issue is, where do you draw the line between genres? Billboard is clearly trying to erase it. I'm fine with new sounds being incorporated into genres, but there will always be people who like country music, people who like pop music, and people who like rock music. And the new chart methodology compromises the identities of all these genres, mixing in airplay from all formats, plus sales from who knows where. And what I really take from your post is something I've already voiced...another big issue with this new chart: some suits at Billboard get to decide what genre a song falls into? That's bogus, and completely subjective. Say what you will, but radio's best at determining what falls into what genre. If country radio isn't gonna play a song because it's 'too pop' or some other format, then it's likely not what most country listeners would call country. Radio stations can figure out what their listeners like by conducting research, and playing to their listeners' tastes. Sure, they don't get it right all the time...but I think they know what songs don't work out. And lately, every time we've seen a song get on a hot streak with digital sales, the airplay gains reflect that too, so it's clear that a lot of PD's understand that sales are important, and will increase the airplay of a hot-selling song. I just don't like mixing the two.
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Post by tim on Oct 23, 2012 0:11:15 GMT -5
this is just ridiculous. I have been a follower of Billboard forever, but after this I have given up on their credibility, especially with the historical significance of charting songs. As an actual sometimes fan of Taylor's music I find this may only turn me against her...as in I will probably just switch the station when I hear her music. At this point I am Taylored out and believe she is over-saturating herself. Blame this on Big Machine I guess...??? This is kinda how I feel as well. Only I don't think you can pin this on Big Machine...Billboard changed a lot of different genre charts, not just the country one. It just so happens that this new methodology will really benefit Taylor. I do like her and some of her music, but I think the methodology behind this new version of Hot Country Songs is bogus. BTW Carrie Fans, much of the record has a similar melodic theme to the track "Blown Away." By that token, they should be 'country' songs if Carrie's song is country, no? Just curious what Carrie's fans think of this. Uh...this is gonna start a fan war. And I don't really get what you're asking? Sure, "Blown Away" sounds pop-ish. And many of Taylor's songs do (though I don't think any of them really sound like BA). The issue is, where do you draw the line between genres? Billboard is clearly trying to erase it. I'm fine with new sounds being incorporated into genres, but there will always be people who like country music, people who like pop music, and people who like rock music. And the new chart methodology compromises the identities of all these genres, mixing in airplay from all formats, plus sales from who knows where. And what I really take from your post is something I've already voiced...another big issue with this new chart: some suits at Billboard get to decide what genre a song falls into? That's bogus, and completely subjective. Say what you will, but radio's best at determining what falls into what genre. If country radio isn't gonna play a song because it's 'too pop' or some other format, then it's likely not what most country listeners would call country. Radio stations can figure out what their listeners like by conducting research, and playing to their listeners' tastes. Sure, they don't get it right all the time...but I think they know what songs don't work out. And lately, every time we've seen a song get on a hot streak with digital sales, the airplay gains reflect that too, so it's clear that a lot of PD's understand that sales are important, and will increase the airplay of a hot-selling song. I just don't like mixing the two.
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Post by tim on Oct 23, 2012 0:18:17 GMT -5
jhomes87, I agree with you on both points. Not meaning to point blame to Big Machine actually...more concern with Scott Borchetta's influence on country music. I don't know a whole out about him, but from what I've read I'm not fond of him. I grew up posting Billboard's Top Country's Top 10 in my basement for no reason other than just for me to see it (this was back in 1996) and I just feel so betrayed by Billboard's decision.
To your last point, we don't need no fan wars. I am also a fan of Carrie's "Blown Away," and there is no need for a Carrie vs. Taylor bash here.
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Oct 25, 2012 10:38:21 GMT -5
7 out of the top 50 for Jason Aldean this week. I'm not sure how this represents country music in any way (especially country radio).
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Oct 25, 2012 10:50:26 GMT -5
Expect this moving forward for all highly anticipated new release albums I guess. Every track on an album will surely be charting on this new chart and many with high Top 10 peaks.
The further into the mechanics of this new chart we get, the more useless it becomes. It's making it clear that for chart watchers, the airplay chart will be the one worth looking at.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 17:51:55 GMT -5
Yeah...it looks to me like all this new chart does, is cause the majority of artists to peak lower. Pretty much no one outside the top 30 on the Airplay chart is on this new chart, unless they're a hot seller. Granted, we do have a few non-singles from Taylor (Red, Ronan) and Jason on there, but that's a problem...every time a big album comes out, it's gonna chart songs that push back actual singles.
Another problem, is that it takes forever to go recurrent on this new chart. Jana Kramer still isn't recurrent, and it'll take a LONG time for Hunter Hayes to go recurrent. Aldean and Dustin Lynch will both stay on the chart for a while with old singles. There's just not enough movement...I know the Airplay chart can be quite slow, but this one has fewer spaces (50 instead of 60), allows recurrent (airplay) songs to stay on until they fall below #25, and charts tons of album cuts.
I mean, where are Faith Hill? Alan Jackson? Lauren Alaina? The list goes on...Gloriana, Kelleigh Bannen, Chris Young, Joanna Smith, Thompson Square, Craig Campbell, JT Hodges, not to mention the many artists still waiting for the top 60 on the Airplay chart. Well, they'll be waiting longer for this one.
However, I'm feeling a little better, because of what I just said in the above paragraph. That convinces me that record labels and artists won't really go by this new chart all that much, since it doesn't reflect their songs. And I think the way they go about radio promotion, and how radio compiles their playlists, are unlikely to change, which is a relief. I've been worried that a hot-selling pop song could come on and dominate this chart (can't use Taylor here, since country radio is already done with WANEGBT) and that country radio PD's might look at it and go "oh, looks like that song is popular...it's #1 or top 5, we better bump up our airplay for it because it's only #32 on our personal playlist!" and then it would just snowball out of control if too many PD's started thinking that way.
Some labels will no doubt tout their accomplishments on this new chart, I have no doubt. If that makes them happy, that they now have a 3rd chart to go for #1 on, then I don't care. But I hate looking up country artists on Wikipedia, and seeing the positions for this chart (since it's the one named Hot Country Songs) reflected on their discographies. And it'll be like that in many places, if the record-keepers and books such as Joel Whitburn's use this new chart instead of the Airplay chart.
I pretty much laugh, when this new chart comes out on Thursdays, because I find it silly and I, personally, can get over it and not even really pay attention to it. But the glaring negative consequence is how it affects the record books, whether they're being kept by Billboard or some outside source. I'll never be able to stomach that.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 25, 2012 17:58:51 GMT -5
Think of it this way, jhomes87: When you open your e-mail on a Thursday, it gives you something to laugh about!
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Oct 25, 2012 18:03:41 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's rather telling that within the Midweek Update that touts the new "Hot Country Songs" you see an ad on the first page that touts that Lee Brice is "powering up for #1!" ... when he's #5 on HCS. To me, it appears as though the labels are still primarily focused on Country Airplay and Mediabase as "their" charts. jhomes is most certainly correct that when an Artist Not Named Taylor manages to squeak out a #1 on there they will celebrate it (and at this point ... I'm inclined to say they should, simply for the fact that they managed to do it at all with her on the chart), and that's fine, they can. But I do agree that in no way should this new chart have taken on the HCS name and inherited all of the history. It still just makes me shake my head.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 18:04:22 GMT -5
Think of it this way, jhomes87: When you open your e-mail on a Thursday, it gives you something to laugh about! Barely. I only laugh at how silly it looks, the rankings here. I am angry about how it affects the record-keeping.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Oct 25, 2012 21:17:38 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's rather telling that within the Midweek Update that touts the new "Hot Country Songs" you see an ad on the first page that touts that Lee Brice is "powering up for #1!" ... when he's #5 on HCS. To me, it appears as though the labels are still primarily focused on Country Airplay and Mediabase as "their" charts. All the proof I need. If even TPTB shun the new chart, I'm betting it's not gonna last too long.
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Post by countrybamafan on Oct 25, 2012 21:34:26 GMT -5
And it'll be like that in many places, if the record-keepers and books such as Joel Whitburn's use this new chart instead of the Airplay chart. I would think Joel Whitburn would now use Billboard's Airplay Chart to continue the chart history. Surely he would. I love and look forward to the mid-year updates that Jonsolo provides us of the updated Whitburn chart. To me, that is one of the best charts that exist for determining the overall impact an artist has had in country music. Although a higher chart position provides artists with more points, long-lasting songs that don't quite make it to the top can produce just as many or more points than a brisk rise and fall to the top. It would make no sense for Whitburn to incorporate the new Billboard chart. It's also very telling that virtually no one is going by the new chart. Of course, Taylor has been the sole occupant at the top, but it's almost like the labels (and artists) are pretending like the chart doesn't even exist. So, as long as that continues, I could care less what happens. At first, I was upset, but now, not so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 22:49:05 GMT -5
And it'll be like that in many places, if the record-keepers and books such as Joel Whitburn's use this new chart instead of the Airplay chart. I would think Joel Whitburn would now use Billboard's Airplay Chart to continue the chart history. Surely he would. I love and look forward to the mid-year updates that Jonsolo provides us of the updated Whitburn chart. To me, that is one of the best charts that exist for determining the overall impact an artist has had in country music. Although a higher chart position provides artists with more points, long-lasting songs that don't quite make it to the top can produce just as many or more points than a brisk rise and fall to the top. It would make no sense for Whitburn to incorporate the new Billboard chart. It's also very telling that virtually no one is going by the new chart. Of course, Taylor has been the sole occupant at the top, but it's almost like the labels (and artists) are pretending like the chart doesn't even exist. So, as long as that continues, I could care less what happens. At first, I was upset, but now, not so much. I'm not as sure on the Joel Whitburn thing. Because Jonsolo did post recently in that thread that he noticed Whitburn was making a new book, only instead of having separate point totals for 2001-2010 and 2011-current, they lumped all the 2001-2012 points into one big 'decade'. And it seems awfully strange that that might correlate to the change in chart methodology. And, I think labels and artists are more indifferent to this new chart, rather than against it. Like I and others have suggested, they probably see it as a 3rd chart, in addition to Billboard Airplay and Mediabase, that they can do well on. Right now, with big albums coming out, of course everyone is gonna focus on the Airplay chart, because everybody is at a higher position on that chart, other than Taylor. I don't really trust Billboard and all the info they feed us, but there have been numerous columns from them that said they went into this new 'era' of charts because the industry was mostly favorable of it. It affects other genres and not just country, but I just don't think the labels in Nashville are gonna be against it like many of the fans are. And I'm worried about how Joel Whitburn will keep track of things. You already see many sources that show online discographies are reflecting the Hot Country Songs chart, and not Billboard Airplay, and that has me worried. Again, it's not the chart itself that bothers me. It's the fact that it's the one Billboard is calling the "main chart", and the fact that it's screwing up all the records and statistics. Plus, regarding Lee Brice and Curb and the "powering up for #1" ad...why wouldn't they put that ad out? Radio still plays things like they always have, and they're going for #1 there. This new chart is still a Billboard chart, so anyone subscribing to it gets both HCS and Airplay. And the reason I don't think that ad not really referencing HCS (but rather Airplay) is telling, is because there are 7 ads in the HCS issue that came out today, and those same 7 ads (plus 2 others) were in the Monday Airplay issue. Same order, too. Lee Brice, Sweetwater Rain, Taylor Swift, Rascal Flatts, Hayden Panettiere, Chris Cagle, and Thompson Square. The Airplay issue only had 2 other ads, one for Clay Walker's "Jesse James" and the other for The Band Perry's "Better Dig Two". Otherwise, all the same ads. I just really doubt the labels are ignoring the chart. The only ones who could really tout their accomplishments on it right now are Taylor and Big Machine, but I think they know better than to 'rub it in', since the change really helped WANEGBT when everyone knew country radio had passed on it. FGL's "Cruise" is also higher on the new chart, but anyone who follows the airplay charts knows it's gonna be #1 there soon anyway, and won't get past #2 on HCS as long as Taylor is still getting airplay on Pop radio. I think, in the future, we'll see labels reference both charts...but right now, there's really no reason for anyone but Big Machine to reference the new chart, as everyone else is higher on the Airplay chart. And I don't see Big Machine making any big ads saying "WANEBT #1 for 5 straight weeks on HCS!!!!"...they already know Taylor and that song are facing a lot of scrutiny within the country music community, even though Billboard's chart change helped her, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll put out any 'thank you/congratulatory #1' ads for the song.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Oct 25, 2012 23:32:31 GMT -5
I also don't think anyone will use those charts for touting their singles; they've seen enough of them to know that they are horrendously skewed toward sales as opposed to airplay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 23:41:30 GMT -5
I also don't think anyone will use those charts for touting their singles; they've seen enough of them to know that they are horrendously skewed toward sales as opposed to airplay. I never said anything along these lines. And yes, actually record labels DO pay a lot of attention to how well their artists are selling. And with this new chart being the "main BB chart", do you see what I'm saying now? I don't think the labels hate this chart at all.
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Post by countrybamafan on Oct 25, 2012 23:44:37 GMT -5
And, I think labels and artists are more indifferent to this new chart, rather than against it. Like I and others have suggested, they probably see it as a 3rd chart, in addition to Billboard Airplay and Mediabase, that they can do well on. Oh, I agree with that, and as you said, once someone else besides Taylor goes #1, the label will probably celebrate and count that as a #1 (though that may be a long time). It just seems that the Country Airplay chart is the one that everyone seems to be going by right now, and since that's the chart where the majority of artists are going to go #1, I think it will mostly be used. In regards to Whitburn, I hope you are not right. I love that chart, and I'll be beyond pissed if the new Billboard chart is what's used on that chart. That would completely ruin it, and I think he would lose a lot of customers by doing so. I'm just going to keep telling myself he won't.
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tn05
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Post by tn05 on Oct 26, 2012 8:08:07 GMT -5
BTW Carrie Fans, much of the record has a similar melodic theme to the track "Blown Away." By that token, they should be 'country' songs if Carrie's song is country, no? Just curious what Carrie's fans think of this. Carrie's song is country because the lyrical theme is not just country, but decidedly country. Taylor ultimately doesn't do too much country lyrics.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Oct 26, 2012 9:47:15 GMT -5
I'd be floored if Whitburn used that new chart; his charts and research have always been based on the charts and nothing else.
What's even more asinine is that the issue of BB in which this new chart was first published did NOT delete the positions of every song on the previous week's charts; in other words, the 'previous week's rankings should have been erased, which wasn't done.
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mikem
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Post by mikem on Oct 26, 2012 12:05:04 GMT -5
Three full-page ads in Thursday's edition. All by Big Machine.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Oct 26, 2012 13:16:41 GMT -5
Oh, I agree with that, and as you said, once someone else besides Taylor goes #1, the label will probably celebrate and count that as a #1 (though that may be a long time). One good thing about the new chart. Taylor will be #1 on it until Armageddon, thus everyone will celebrate and count the #1's on the airplay chart.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Oct 26, 2012 16:35:44 GMT -5
BTW Carrie Fans, much of the record has a similar melodic theme to the track "Blown Away." By that token, they should be 'country' songs if Carrie's song is country, no? Just curious what Carrie's fans think of this. Carrie's song is country because the lyrical theme is not just country, but decidedly country. Taylor ultimately doesn't do too much country lyrics. It's all semantics, honestly. Many of taylor's LYRICS are indeed, country. Just about the stuff right out of her life, is what most would agree is what MAKES a country song. But I'm not trying to get in an argument about who is 'more country' I think they're both country.
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peterca
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Post by peterca on Oct 28, 2012 12:30:48 GMT -5
i'm curious to see which of taylor's songs are gonna count as "country" when the chart comes out Me too. Can someone please post the Hot Country Songs chart from this past Thursday?
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peterca
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Post by peterca on Oct 28, 2012 12:39:01 GMT -5
^^^Never mind. I found it. NO NEW songs from Taylor made the Hot Country Songs chart this week. She has four tunes on the chart (WANEGBT, Red, Begin Again, and Ronan).
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