dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 6, 2014 11:29:47 GMT -5
Regarding the MKIA - Stronger strategy, yes it definitely worked. But why can't her team take it a step further next album with THREE massive singles instead of two, potentially outselling Stronger (album) in the long run? Also, just because the MKIA - Stronger strategy worked, it doesn't mean that MKIA was a great song (purely subjective, I know). Why settle for a decent lead then epic 2nd when you can have two fantastic, yet contrasting songs back to back? (See: BA/SUBG, So What/Sober, Rolling In The Deep/Someone Like You, etc.) No one is saying that shouldn't be the goal; we're saying her team came up with the best plan for the first two singles with what they had.
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Jan 6, 2014 11:48:31 GMT -5
To be fair, "Dark Side" completely killed momentum. I'm not surprised the label didn't send out a 4th single, especially with the previous success of both MKIA/S(WDKY) & the album. They didn't really need to achieve much more anyway.
In regards to having a 1-2 punch in the lead singles, I just didn't see any of the songs having something like a BA/SUBG or RITD/SLY success. Actually, the MKIA/S(WDKY) was very similar to P!nk's So What/Sober single choices, just the other way around if you get what I mean.
Either way the era was great for Kelly, so stop questioning it already and move on. She sold almost 1 million records in the UK alone, something which she hadn't done for a while. Plus, "Dark Side" went top 40 in the UK. :)
P.S: Sorry, one last comment. Kelly fans, please be happy about the success and stop wanting more more more. You should feel so happy that Kelly has had such success and SUSTAINED success over the years. Don't get me wrong, we all get frustrated with silly decisions and sometimes we think things can go better, but at least things always work out for Kelly in the end. I wish I could say the same about Leona. :'(
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 11:51:53 GMT -5
At the end of the day AIEW and S sold the same amount of records! With the only difference being S's singles sales, which dominate. AIEW's problem was IDNHU and the AG controversy... IICHY as the second single and AG/Cry as the third and so on... would've done wonders! So...AIEW's problem was 2/3 of the era. lol. Anyway, you do have to take sales declines into account, even now. AIEW is just now reaching 1m in sales, close to five years after its release. During its actual run I think it got to a bit over 850k. An era like AIEW probably would have sold less than that in 2011-2012. Stronger started out lower, but sold more quickly, reaching 1m within a year. An era like that probably would have sold more in 2009. And perception really means a lot, too. AIEW gets dumped on b/c it lost steam, to the point that even if it had reached 1m I don't think people would have appreciated it as much. We would still be kvetching about how the era could have been so much more if only this or that. Stronger doesn't get nitpicked b/c the era was such positive press for her. I just don't see the point in downplaying the MKIA/WDKY combo for the sake of arguing that the slow-burn strategy was an inferior one (and this is coming from someone who agrees that LMD would have been a superior lead single, MKIA will always be one of my less favorite Kelly songs); it clearly worked so why quibble? And besides of which, that's not really your complaint...your complaint is that her WW profile is diminished now. But as has already been pointed out even by yourself, it's diminished b/c she does not actively promote as much in many WW markets. In that case the whole thing is a moot point, since lack of promotion would have more or less the same result no matter what the lead was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 12:05:08 GMT -5
To be fair, "Dark Side" completely killed momentum. I'm not surprised the label didn't send out a 4th single, especially with the previous success of both MKIA/S(WDKY) & the album. They didn't really need to achieve much more anyway. In regards to having a 1-2 punch in the lead singles, I just didn't see any of the songs having something like a BA/SUBG or RITD/SLY success. Actually, the MKIA/S(WDKY) was very similar to P!nk's So What/Sober single choices, just the other way around if you get what I mean. Either way the era was great for Kelly, so stop questioning it already and move on. She sold almost 1 million records in the UK alone, something which she hadn't done for a while. Plus, "Dark Side" went top 40 in the UK. :) P.S: Sorry, one last comment. Kelly fans, please be happy about the success and stop wanting more more more. You should feel so happy that Kelly has had such success and SUSTAINED success over the years. Don't get me wrong, we all get frustrated with silly decisions and sometimes we think things can go better, but at least things always work out for Kelly in the end. I wish I could say the same about Leona. :'( Double posting, but I wanted to respond to this - if I am not mistaken RCA was pushing the GH idea to Kelly for some time and she finally had agreed to it in early(ish) 2012. So I kind of feel like a fourth single was not planned b/c of that, and what you said - feeling there wasn't much more to 'achieve' from the era - is why they didn't push DS more or pick a different third single. I remember being an annoyingly broken record b/c I kept saying that Stronger is a HAC album with one CHR hit on it. Sorry to bring the record back to that old scracth but I still maintain that. So I definitely see your (and others') points in that there was no guaranteed 1-2 smash combo on the record. I think there were other hits on there, but only WDKY felt certain.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Jan 6, 2014 14:27:25 GMT -5
Look atca girl Avril, then pat Kelly and her team for the platinum plaques and Grammys 10+ years into the game and stop pretending she'd be bigger than Beyoncé and Gaga combined if only they'd picked Chivas as a single seven years ago. It really IS a shame! She's my favourite artist (along with P!nk) right after Kelly. I won't get much into her lyrics... but her music is just great and makes u feel great, it's sad that she's not successful anymore. ugh, memories from the mid 2000s when turning on the radio... THAT was music! Regarding the MKIA - Stronger strategy, yes it definitely worked. But why can't her team take it a step further next album with THREE massive singles instead of two, potentially outselling Stronger (album) in the long run?
Also, just because the MKIA - Stronger strategy worked, it doesn't mean that MKIA was a great song (purely subjective, I know). Why settle for a decent lead then epic 2nd when you can have two fantastic, yet contrasting songs back to back? (See: BA/SUBG, So What/Sober, Rolling In The Deep/Someone Like You, etc.)Amen. At the end of the day AIEW and S sold the same amount of records! With the only difference being S's singles sales, which dominate. AIEW's problem was IDNHU and the AG controversy... IICHY as the second single and AG/Cry as the third and so on... would've done wonders! So...AIEW's problem was 2/3 of the era. lol. Anyway, you do have to take sales declines into account, even now. AIEW is just now reaching 1m in sales, close to five years after its release. During its actual run I think it got to a bit over 850k. An era like AIEW probably would have sold less than that in 2011-2012. Stronger started out lower, but sold more quickly, reaching 1m within a year. An era like that probably would have sold more in 2009. And perception really means a lot, too. AIEW gets dumped on b/c it lost steam, to the point that even if it had reached 1m I don't think people would have appreciated it as much. We would still be kvetching about how the era could have been so much more if only this or that. Stronger doesn't get nitpicked b/c the era was such positive press for her. I just don't see the point in downplaying the MKIA/WDKY combo for the sake of arguing that the slow-burn strategy was an inferior one (and this is coming from someone who agrees that LMD would have been a superior lead single, MKIA will always be one of my less favorite Kelly songs); it clearly worked so why quibble? And besides of which, that's not really your complaint...your complaint is that her WW profile is diminished now. But as has already been pointed out even by yourself, it's diminished b/c she does not actively promote as much in many WW markets. In that case the whole thing is a moot point, since lack of promotion would have more or less the same result no matter what the lead was. AIEW sold 'only' 756k during its actual run (Believe me, I checked Wikipedia daily... well, still do) - so it's awesome that it's at 974k ! I just think that she could be Adele² with the right singles. I do think Adele is overappreciated and all, but lets not get into that -> she doesn't do much and achieves... a lot. I think that with the right songs Kelly could do much better than she's doing now. Basically I want her to have the best possible success and (in case that's not possible) us, fans, to have the best possible songs.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jan 7, 2014 0:47:56 GMT -5
Adele's younger, writes her own songs and had a special kind of celebrity that Kelly won't ever have considering she's been in the industry 10 years already.
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mikeyj7
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Post by mikeyj7 on Jan 7, 2014 12:40:31 GMT -5
This thread has made my head spin these last few days. Yikes.
Just wanted to add a little intel re: the discussion about how she'll proceed, post-pregnancy. My friend that has worked on her last few tours and was able to snag me the meet 'n' greet this summer told me over the holidays that there have been conversations about custom fitting her bus to accomodate their growing family. Sounds like she's planning to bring the little guy or girl on the road with her when she tours next, which makes me think that if she slows down at all, it won't be with regard to touring.
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Peterawr
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Post by Peterawr on Jan 7, 2014 12:51:29 GMT -5
Guys. In order to get back on top, she has to shock more than Miley Cyrus. I've got the perfect plan. She needs to write a song called "Birth" all about being pregnant and being excited about being a mother and make the music video her birthing video. She will get all the streaming from people watching it. It would obviously be a killer vocal because it's Kelly. And babies.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Jan 7, 2014 17:05:02 GMT -5
Accoring to many people WDKY (video) crossed the 100 million mark ! Looks like my counter is frozen.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Jan 8, 2014 1:46:16 GMT -5
If Vevo was big during the Breakaway era, all those would have easily been Vevo Certified. She killed it that era video wise.
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rv1709
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Post by rv1709 on Jan 8, 2014 12:23:43 GMT -5
I see it at 97m. I guess it hasn't updated
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Focus
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Post by Focus on Jan 8, 2014 14:42:22 GMT -5
Courtesy of kellymakesmeloosecontrol at the KCE...
Just got word from someone who works closely with both Martina and Kelly that it is absolutely AMAAZZZINNNGG!! AHHH
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Post by josh on Jan 8, 2014 14:47:19 GMT -5
I see it at 97m. I guess it hasn't updated vevo.com has it at 100,138,928 (I think; the numbers are small). Youtube numbers are always slightly lower than vevo numbers.
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kylecburke
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Post by kylecburke on Jan 8, 2014 14:49:13 GMT -5
In week 10, WIR drops to #64, making it the first week out of the top 10 since it debuted at #3. The album sold an estimate 6,000+ copies and should be at around 770K in US and 890,000 worldwide.
I believe WIR may have outsold her Hits record worldwide 890,000 v 885,000 however again it depends on how accurate those numbers are.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Jan 9, 2014 6:24:49 GMT -5
This can't be true... can it?
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Post by K. on Jan 9, 2014 7:23:19 GMT -5
Yes, I saw that the first time I listened to that song. It's one of the reasons I hate it with such a passion (the other being its just absolutely terrible).
Drew in here by the title. Hopefully all that vomiting doesn't damage her vocal chords...
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mikeyj7
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Post by mikeyj7 on Jan 9, 2014 8:10:00 GMT -5
What's the source of that snippet?
I certainly believe it. I've long suspected that Luke had the potential to be as slimy, vicious and egomaniacal as Clive.
He was asked, point blank, if that song was about Clive; he said no. He also claimed that it was written around the same time as Since U Been Gone. I didnt necessarily believe him then, and I still don't.
All that said, it makes Kelly's successes from the Stronger era all the way up to the just-ended Wrapped in Red era even more impressive. She was able to weed out the folks more interested in their own success and work only with true collaborators.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Jan 9, 2014 8:38:40 GMT -5
Found it on Tumblr.
After watching the making of "The Best Damn Thing" by Avril Lavigne he did seem very artistry money 'n success focussed. (I bet he hates her for not doing anything on "Goodbye Lullaby" and "Avril Lavigne") Probably Kelly was contractly obligated to record MLWSWY or something... then, when she still had no saying. That's the only way I can explain it IN CASE he really said that... which I don't really doubt after this recent Ke$ha scandal. Looking back at the AG/Halo controversy she made it clear, she wouldn't work with Tedder anymore. So if Luke was such a b*tch, why would she WANT to work with him again unless she HAS TO.
Judging by her 'Making of' MLWSWY, she didn't care... maybe he apologized in the meantime or something 'cuz he realized, success made him cray cray... she just said 'Yeah so I went in the studio with Luke 'n Martin and we converted the song into a 'Kelly Clarkson' song [blah blah]'
Plus she loves the song and was so super excited about its success, which makes me wonder if he's really that much of an a$$hole.
On the other hand, it has to be mentioned that it was a win-win situation for BOTCH of them during the Breakaway-era! He also wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for SUBG and BTHE, which draw attention to the team of P!nk, which ...... and so on and now all his productions sound the same
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jan 9, 2014 9:08:22 GMT -5
Ahhh. Tumblr sources. Goody.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 9, 2014 10:41:50 GMT -5
I'd take that particular article with a grain of salt. Dr. Luke is the internet's punching bag right now for things he has allegedly said about Kesha that led to her eating disorder/dwindling career. Though Kelly has basically done everything in her power to not work with him since Breakaway, outside of MLWSWY, so he's never appeared all that innocent to me, either.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jan 9, 2014 10:54:41 GMT -5
Yes, he's notoriously a d*ck, but with that accepted fact comes the potential to spin all manner of tales.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Jan 9, 2014 10:59:52 GMT -5
Also, Dr. Luke did used to poster here, and he has said great things about her (I remember he once defended her in a thread in which people claimed she couldn't hit the notes she hit in the studio...lawl), but I do recall something more snide around the MD time. I don't know that it was anything as harsh as "ungrateful bitch," but he wasn't exactly singing her praises as much when she ditched him for album three.
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rv1709
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Post by rv1709 on Jan 9, 2014 14:35:34 GMT -5
I won't mind if Kelly works with him again. He has done good work with Katy
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Jan 9, 2014 15:00:25 GMT -5
^ NO NO NO! She and Greg Kurstin are the real deal! PopRock-masters are also Chris DeStefano (Let Me Down) and Darkchild (I Forgive You).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2014 15:03:25 GMT -5
Very cool. Edison Research has conducted a study found that Carrie Underwood is the most popular artist among 12-to-24-year-olds who like Country music, as well as the most popular Country artist among 12-to-24s overall.
Edison Research's study, "Understanding Country Radio's Next Generation of Listeners," offers the latest research on music and media habits of 12-to-34-year-olds. The full survey will be unveiled on February 19th at the Country Radio Seminar in Nashville by Edison's Larry Rosin and Megan Lazovick, along with Jayne Charneski, an expert on "Millennials." A follow-up session will be held on February 20th.
The study of 1,550 12-34 year-olds, including nearly 900 respondents under age 25, was conducted from November 18th-25th, before The Sound of Music aired on December 5th. Among 12-to-24-year-olds who say they like Country music, Underwood has a favorable rating among 82% of respondents, followed by Tim McGraw (80%), Blake Shelton (77%), and Luke Bryan (75%).
Among all 12-to-24-year olds, the top four Country artists (or artists at least somewhat associated with Country) as identified by the respondents are Carrie Underwood (48%), Kelly Clarkson (44%), Taylor Swift (43%) and Tim McGraw (40%). The Edison study found that the youngest Country fans show surprisingly mainstream and diverse tastes, with favorites that include both 20-year-format-veteran Tim McGraw and relative newcomer Luke Bryan.
The study will look at everything from radio and other audio usage among younger listeners, to their attitudes about Country music and how they discovered the format. There will be extensive information both about those 12-to-34-year-old Country fans and about listeners in that demographic overall as their generation helps change the landscape for both music preference and media usage.
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kylecburke
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Post by kylecburke on Jan 9, 2014 15:22:17 GMT -5
In week 10, WIR drops to #64, making it the first week out of the top 10 since it debuted at #3. The album sold an estimate 6,000+ copies and should be at around 770K in US and 890,000 worldwide. I believe WIR may have outsold her Hits record worldwide 890,000 v 885,000 however again it depends on how accurate those numbers are. Hits rises to #147 on Top 200 in week 54 with estimate 3,300 (558,300). Next week it will tie Thankful for most weeks on Top 200 and be 3rd for a Kelly album (Breakaway 129 weeks, Stronger 68 weeks) :)
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mrossp24
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Post by mrossp24 on Jan 9, 2014 15:35:52 GMT -5
I'm really hoping she branches out and works with some new people for her next album, whatever genre it may be. It would be awesome to get a knit-tight, cohesive album from her.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Jan 9, 2014 15:53:50 GMT -5
^ NO NO NO! She and Greg Kurstin are the real deal! PopRock-masters are also Chris DeStefano (Let Me Down) and Darkchild (I Forgive You). I like how Kelly+Kurstin turned out on the Christmas album. It's the best her self-penned songs have ever sounded, and it seems like they "get" each other. I would take an entire album of them working together even using some songs written by others, but I'm guessing we'll get the one standard Jason-produced track :|, a Darkchild track :|, and possibly an out-there choice on one song ???. My holy grail would be Kelly+Kurstin+Sia on at least two songs. The latter two did amazing pop music on "We Are Born" and its style reminds me of the vibe of You Love Me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2014 15:55:51 GMT -5
Also, Dr. Luke did used to poster here, and he has said great things about her (I remember he once defended her in a thread in which people claimed she couldn't hit the notes she hit in the studio...lawl), but I do recall something more snide around the MD time. I don't know that it was anything as harsh as "ungrateful bitch," but he wasn't exactly singing her praises as much when she ditched him for album three. Too lazy to find the old threads now, but I did go back once and read them, and I agree that he never said anything harsh. He was a bit passive aggressive during MD b/c he claims he is the one who suggested having one EP for the entire album to the label, and she used that idea (just not with him). The "worst" it ever got was simply him defending the label when people were accusing RCA/Clive of purposely sinking the album - his reasoning was, who would purposely want an album to fail after putting so much money into it. Lol in retrospect, but I figured even then that Luke himself wasn't necessarily aware of that let alone in on it. I always believed, and still do, that Luke's biggest problem is simply that he is a ridiculous control freak who is next to impossible to truly collaborate with. I am dying to know what direction a Katy album would head in without him. That Kelly has always managed to get her input in there somehow is a testament both to her stubbornness and ability to work well with others herself. ^ NO NO NO! She and Greg Kurstin are the real deal! PopRock-masters are also Chris DeStefano (Let Me Down) and Darkchild (I Forgive You). I agree on Greg, there is nothing Luke did for Kelly that Greg cannot do as well or maybe even better. And she seems to actually enjoy working with Greg. Nothing but a win with that guy. DeStefano is good too - loved LMD, and DBAGAI was also pretty cute and catchy. I was very disappointed in IFY though; what is the point of working with this well-known r&b/urban producer if he's just going to give her the same old thing (and unlike Greg, it was NOT an improvement on anything she hadn't already done before). I would love for her to work again with Darkchild but only if he were to actually give her a Darkchild track instead of what he thinks a Kelly Clarkson track is. Very cool. Edison Research has conducted a study found that Carrie Underwood is the most popular artist among 12-to-24-year-olds who like Country music, as well as the most popular Country artist among 12-to-24s overall.
Edison Research's study, "Understanding Country Radio's Next Generation of Listeners," offers the latest research on music and media habits of 12-to-34-year-olds. The full survey will be unveiled on February 19th at the Country Radio Seminar in Nashville by Edison's Larry Rosin and Megan Lazovick, along with Jayne Charneski, an expert on "Millennials." A follow-up session will be held on February 20th.
The study of 1,550 12-34 year-olds, including nearly 900 respondents under age 25, was conducted from November 18th-25th, before The Sound of Music aired on December 5th. Among 12-to-24-year-olds who say they like Country music, Underwood has a favorable rating among 82% of respondents, followed by Tim McGraw (80%), Blake Shelton (77%), and Luke Bryan (75%).
Among all 12-to-24-year olds, the top four Country artists (or artists at least somewhat associated with Country) as identified by the respondents are Carrie Underwood (48%), Kelly Clarkson (44%), Taylor Swift (43%) and Tim McGraw (40%). The Edison study found that the youngest Country fans show surprisingly mainstream and diverse tastes, with favorites that include both 20-year-format-veteran Tim McGraw and relative newcomer Luke Bryan.
The study will look at everything from radio and other audio usage among younger listeners, to their attitudes about Country music and how they discovered the format. There will be extensive information both about those 12-to-34-year-old Country fans and about listeners in that demographic overall as their generation helps change the landscape for both music preference and media usage. That's interesting and encouraging! I imagine the 12-24 demographic isn't a large part of country radio's listening audience though, and/or the 12-24 year olds who rated her so highly aren't hardcore country fans but like the mainstream-sounding artists. We know how some country fans lose it on Twitter every time she appears at a country award show. And I can't recall off the top of my head but her lead-artist country efforts have had poor call-out scores, right? (My theory is that the poor call-out scores is more representative of a resistance to her in general than it is of the songs themselves.) So it might take some creative strategy for her to reach the part of the country demo that is actually interested in her. I think they should just send all her country singles to pop as well, it's not like it would suddenly make it not be a country album and her sales would fare better in the end.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Jan 9, 2014 16:05:42 GMT -5
I think his other big weakness is that he finds a muse and then ditches her as soon as he loses the connection or finds a new one. Look at how he's latched on to Katy, but left Ke$ha in the dust. He always saves his best material for his current It Girl, and the rest suffer.
With regards to MLWSWY, it's clear she likes the song, but it's also clear that she was just standing by her word that she would record whatever the label wanted after My December.
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