Kentucky25
Platinum Member
Enter your message here...
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 1,287
|
Post by Kentucky25 on Jul 7, 2015 22:07:53 GMT -5
"Stuck" got one add as well, which might mean they've already told some stations that's the next single. I know one add doesn't mean much, but throw that in with today's monster update and it becomes pretty clear their gunning for max spins this week. I too hope it falls short, because it's simply time for it to go. I know it is still selling extremely well, but eventually some of these songs and labels are going to have to settle for a #3 or #4 peak, or the charts are only going to continue to take forever for anyone that's not an A-lister. "Stuck" is the only other song I really like off the album...I think it's actually really really good. Would be a good time to release it as it would get going as summer is ending and the fall months are approaching
|
|
kml567
Gold Member
Joined: June 2005
Posts: 972
|
Post by kml567 on Jul 7, 2015 22:10:53 GMT -5
I'm hoping split #1 (Canaan MB/Jason BB), then Jason #1 on both charts next week, and then LBT #1 on both charts the following week. I like Canaan's song better than Jason's. Blake will free-fall in a day or two after posting that "Thank you country radio" ad.
|
|
dm2081
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2014
Posts: 7,031
|
Post by dm2081 on Jul 7, 2015 22:20:13 GMT -5
"Stuck" got one add as well, which might mean they've already told some stations that's the next single. I know one add doesn't mean much, but throw that in with today's monster update and it becomes pretty clear their gunning for max spins this week. I too hope it falls short, because it's simply time for it to go. I know it is still selling extremely well, but eventually some of these songs and labels are going to have to settle for a #3 or #4 peak, or the charts are only going to continue to take forever for anyone that's not an A-lister. "Stuck" is the only other song I really like off the album...I think it's actually really really good. Would be a good time to release it as it would get going as summer is ending and the fall months are approaching "Stuck" is decent and is an improvement over this tune IMO, but I prefer "Two Lane Road" or "Bronco". Those two were my favorites off the album.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 11:36:26 GMT -5
Looks like it will be close but Canaan will barely sneak in the #1 on Mediabase this week. However, in my view Mercury Nashville is really botching up this chart run by pushing for a Mediabase #1 so soon, when Canaan could have easily waited around a few more weeks and reached #1 on both charts. Sure this song is nearly a year old, but it has been climbing pretty steadily through the top 15 and I have seen no indication that this wouldn't last a few more weeks. To me a Mediabase-only #1 is as good as no #1 at all, so I'm disappointed to see Canaan's song spend almost a full year at radio just to come up short of the top spot even with sales and callout numbers that definitely merit a #1 peak. This is still out-selling Jason Aldean's "Tonight Looks Good on You" even though Canaan's song is eight months older. I place all the blame on Canaan's label for mishandling the #1 push here.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 5:24:08 GMT -5
Reaches a new peak of #51 on the Hot 100 in its 15th week and is also #9 on the US Country chart. Not bad considering "We Got Us" barely charted the Country Chart a few years ago.
Also interesting fact: Did you know Canaan Smith was on "The Amazing Race" in 2009? They were the 6th team eliminated.
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 9, 2015 13:01:38 GMT -5
Absolutely awful this song is going to be a MB #1. "Love You Like That" has gained 720 spins and over 4.6 million in audience, and it's only Thursday - just stupid numbers that makes me wonder why in the world I even follow the country music singles charts. What makes it that much harder to look at is the fact "Sangria" is now falling as Blake lost 166 spins and 700k in audience today. Jason's song has only gained 1.5 million in audience this week thus far, so it appears Broken Bow is playing nice with Mercury since Canaan's song is older (vast understatement, lol).
The fact I despise this song only makes it harder to swallow but Canaan's song is coming up on one year old and his debut album had pitiful sales out of the gate. Five or six years ago this song would have peaked at #6 or #5, but in 2015, it has a good opportunity to call itself a #1. Not that "Love You Like That" slowed down at any point inside the top 20 (it did climb at a steady rate) but in this day and age, it seems weeks charting means almost nothing. If so many songs spend so long on the charts then the fact a song like this is extremely old means little. It's kinda like when everyone on the road is speeding, it looks normal, because everybody is going the same speed; but if your car is the only one speeding, then you look out of place, and it's only a matter of time before a cop pulls you over (and ends your chart run).
|
|
onebuffalo
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
I am One Buffalo.
Joined: June 2009
Posts: 26,586
|
Post by onebuffalo on Jul 9, 2015 13:09:38 GMT -5
Absolutely awful this song is going to be a MB #1. "Love You Like That" has gained 720 spins and over 4.6 million in audience, and it's only Thursday - just stupid numbers that makes me wonder why in the world I even follow the country music singles charts. What makes it that much harder to look at is the fact "Sangria" is now falling as Blake lost 166 spins and 700k in audience today. Jason's song has only gained 1.5 million in audience this week thus far, so it appears Broken Bow is playing nice with Mercury since Canaan's song is older (vast understatement, lol). The fact I despise this song only makes it harder to swallow but Canaan's song is coming up on one year old and his debut album had pitiful sales out of the gate. Five or six years ago this song would have peaked at #6 or #5, but in 2015, it has a good opportunity to call itself a #1. Not that "Love You Like That" slowed down at any point inside the top 20 (it did climb at a steady rate) but in this day and age, it seems weeks charting means almost nothing. If so many songs spend so long on the charts then the fact a song like this is extremely old means little. It's kinda like when everyone on the road is speeding, it looks normal, because everybody is going the same speed; but if your car is the only one speeding, then you look out of place, and it's only a matter of time before a cop pulls you over (and ends your chart run). Ticketed for finishing first? Unless you're doing 31 m.p.h. in Kenmore!
|
|
HeyHeyHey
3x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2010
Posts: 3,734
|
Post by HeyHeyHey on Jul 9, 2015 13:10:40 GMT -5
Absolutely awful this song is going to be a MB #1. "Love You Like That" has gained 720 spins and over 4.6 million in audience, and it's only Thursday - just stupid numbers that makes me wonder why in the world I even follow the country music singles charts. What makes it that much harder to look at is the fact "Sangria" is now falling as Blake lost 166 spins and 700k in audience today. Jason's song has only gained 1.5 million in audience this week thus far, so it appears Broken Bow is playing nice with Mercury since Canaan's song is older (vast understatement, lol). The fact I despise this song only makes it harder to swallow but Canaan's song is coming up on one year old and his debut album had pitiful sales out of the gate. Five or six years ago this song would have peaked at #6 or #5, but in 2015, it has a good opportunity to call itself a #1. Not that "Love You Like That" slowed down at any point inside the top 20 (it did climb at a steady rate) but in this day and age, it seems weeks charting means almost nothing. If so many songs spend so long on the charts then the fact a song like this is extremely old means little. It's kinda like when everyone on the road is speeding, it looks normal, because everybody is going the same speed; but if your car is the only one speeding, then you look out of place, and it's only a matter of time before a cop pulls you over (and ends your chart run). I love that you compared speeding cars to the country chart haha! I am both surprised and disappointed that this will manage to hit #1.
|
|
onebuffalo
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
I am One Buffalo.
Joined: June 2009
Posts: 26,586
|
Post by onebuffalo on Jul 9, 2015 13:19:15 GMT -5
Mercury figures it can't get a #1 out of Easton Corbin, so they will get one with Canaan Smith.
|
|
dm2081
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2014
Posts: 7,031
|
Post by dm2081 on Jul 9, 2015 15:24:22 GMT -5
Yeah this push is rediculous, and I hate that Jason and Broken Bow are playing nice. On the plus side it should mean Jason gets two weeks at #1 on Billboard, which is the only chart I really care for, and I much prefer his song. The worst part is that as more and more artists last 50+ weeks on the charts, the more it becomes a regular occurrence.
|
|
onebuffalo
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
I am One Buffalo.
Joined: June 2009
Posts: 26,586
|
Post by onebuffalo on Jul 9, 2015 15:27:00 GMT -5
Yeah this push is rediculous, and I hate that Jason and Broken Bow are playing nice. On the plus side it should mean Jason gets two weeks at #1 on Billboard, which is the only chart I really care for, and I much prefer his song. The worst part is that as more and more artists last 50+ weeks on the charts, the more it becomes a regular occurrence. I agree. It's just a matter of time before we see the first single to spend 60 weeks on the airplay chart.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 15:28:42 GMT -5
Yeah this push is rediculous, and I hate that Jason and Broken Bow are playing nice. On the plus side it should mean Jason gets two weeks at #1 on Billboard, which is the only chart I really care for, and I much prefer his song. The worst part is that as more and more artists last 50+ weeks on the charts, the more it becomes a regular occurrence. I agree. It's just a matter of time before we see the first single to spend 60 weeks on the airplay chart. They move one spot a week and then drop out once they hit #1.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 15:48:24 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with the dissatisfaction with this going to #1. Barring personal opinions of the song itself, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't hit the top. Sales are still strong and I don't even see any significantly high burn rates on the Callout charts. Canaan's album did sell poorly, but album sales in general have been going down and what really matters is how this single itself is performing with listeners, not a full album of Canaan's other material.
Sure this push is ridiculous, but Canaan would have gotten to #1 with no trouble at all after Jason Aldean, without an insane push. The way I see it, Universal simply jumped the gun by pushing Canaan so soon. The way they have chosen to do things, Canaan could gain 1200 spins in one week and get to #1 before Jason, but Mercury could have just as easily allowed Canaan to space the gains out over three weeks and wait 'til Jason Aldean is finished at #1 to do a final push. I don't view this as a "Homegrown Honey" or "Little Toy Guns" scenario where the label is doing a "now or never" push for a song that is running out of steam. LYLT was doing just fine and would have lasted a few more weeks on the charts. Personally, I view this push as putting Canaan's chances of going to #1 at unnecessary risk, as there's a good chance Mercury could lose the #1 to Jason Aldean on Billboard this week, and like most others here I tend to disregard Mediabase-only #1 songs.
One other minor disagreement I have is over the idea that Broken Bow is intentionally playing nice here. We've really never seen this sort of style of promotion with Broken Bow in the past. They've always been pretty cutthroat about fighting for as many weeks at #1 as possible, and they've made some pretty shocking multi-week #1 songs ("When She Says Baby," "Yeah," "Carolina"). I think Jason's more modest gains this week are actually a result of Canaan's #1 push. I'd guess a lot of radio stations are giving some of Jason's spins to Canaan this week since Mercury is doing a final push for Canaan's record, while Jason's is likely to hang around for another two weeks.
I guess we'll be able to judge next week how manufactured this push was based on how hard Canaan falls. I suspect this may be a similar situation to "Whatever She's Got," "Ain't Worth the Whiskey," and "Love Me Like You Mean It" where we see a song have a huge final bullet but still fall relatively slowly, indicating that the #1 push wasn't so manufactured.
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 9, 2015 16:05:47 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with the dissatisfaction with this going to #1. Barring personal opinions of the song itself, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't hit the top. Sales are still strong and I don't even see any significantly high burn rates on the Callout charts. Canaan's album did sell poorly, but album sales in general have been going down and what really matters is how this single itself is performing with listeners, not a full album of Canaan's other material. Sure this push is ridiculous, but Canaan would have gotten to #1 with no trouble at all after Jason Aldean, without an insane push. The way I see it, Universal simply jumped the gun by pushing Canaan so soon. The way they have chosen to do things, Canaan could gain 1200 spins in one week and get to #1 before Jason, but Mercury could have just as easily allowed Canaan to space the gains out over three weeks and wait 'til Jason Aldean is finished at #1 to do a final push. I don't view this as a "Homegrown Honey" or "Little Toy Guns" scenario where the label is doing a "now or never" push for a song that is running out of steam. LYLT was doing just fine and would have lasted a few more weeks on the charts. Personally, I view this push as putting Canaan's chances of going to #1 at unnecessary risk, as there's a good chance Mercury could lose the #1 to Jason Aldean on Billboard this week, and like most others here I tend to disregard Mediabase-only #1 songs. One other minor disagreement I have is over the idea that Broken Bow is intentionally playing nice here. We've really never seen this sort of style of promotion with Broken Bow in the past. They've always been pretty cutthroat about fighting for as many weeks at #1 as possible, and they've made some pretty shocking multi-week #1 songs ("When She Says Baby," "Yeah," "Carolina"). I think Jason's more modest gains this week are actually a result of Canaan's #1 push. I'd guess a lot of radio stations are giving some of Jason's spins to Canaan this week since Mercury is doing a final push for Canaan's record, while Jason's is likely to hang around for another two weeks. I think in 2015, this song hitting #1 is not to be anything surprised about. However, it does show how much the charts have changed in just a few short years. I attribute the fact "Love You Like That" is not significantly high on burn rate, due to the ever changing landscape of country radio. People now and days listen to the radio less than ever before and that's has greatly attributed to songs being able to spend an eternity on the charts. It just doesn't matter much anymore. 40 weeks chart runs were flat out unheard of 10 years ago- and I know from chart watching religiously in 2005 to 2006. So this song being old, while it should pose as a crutch for this song, in the end is just a small factor that can be overcome by most labels, especially a corporate label like Mercury Nashville and UMG. And I've said it before, the reason they are pushing this so hard this week is because Mercury Nashville and UMG "do" count and "do" regard MB as a legit chart. They have the ultra confidence they can accomplish that feat this week, so they have decided to wait no longer. Your theory of this song being next in line after Jason is valid but I think they see a bigger risk waiting it out, than putting all their eggs in the MB basket and claiming a #1 spot by Sunday afternoon. I know many here do not regard MB, and I respect that, but labels make these pushes because they like the MB chart, and perhaps (dare I say) prefer it over Billboard. Of course if a song goes #1 on either chart, it counts regardless to any Nashville based record label. Also, if Broken Bow really desired to block Canaan, they could easily make things more difficult right now for Mercury than it currently is. Most of the spins this week are going to Canaan and Broken Bow from the looks of it has decided to allow them to benefit from Blake going bye-bye and just let Jason's go up at a more natural progression, especially when they can easily get the MB #1 next week and have two weeks on Billboard. There's no need for them to exude more effort for (to them) unnecessary purposes. This way everybody wins. It really makes perfect sense the way this is playing out and Broken Bow, while not exactly easing off the gas pedal, is not making it difficult whatsoever for Mercury.
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Jul 9, 2015 19:39:42 GMT -5
This will be the third straight year that I won't be listening to any year end countdowns which makes me sick, but when FGL replaces George Strait as the format's standard-bearer, you know something's really rotten, and having another mediocre tune such as this reaching #1 @ Mediabase next weekend after Jason's latest piece of musical mediocrity reaches the penthouse by Saturday merely shows how far the format has fallen thanks to one excruciating act and a deluge of equally awful copycats in barely 2 1/2 years.
As previously stated, when this African-American baby boomer became a country music listener for keeps in 1996-97, the first three country CDs I purchased in that exhilirating period of time for country radio included three ESSENTIAL instant classic masterpieces (Everywhere/Everything I Love/Carrying Your Love With Me) and two equally flawless debut CDs from Lee Ann Womack and Trace Adkins.
If you were to build a country CD library from scratch, those five sublime CDs would certainly constitute 'A Real Fine Place To Start' in the words of the equally magnificent Sara Evans, whose equally perfect 'Three Chords And The Truth' CD also from 1997 if memory serves, and that suprtb CD also screams instant classic masterpiece, which surprises no one reading this given her equally revered status by all of us IMHO.
Sickening plain and simple, wouldn't you say?
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 9, 2015 21:15:53 GMT -5
This will be the third straight year that I won't be listening to any year end countdowns which makes me sick, but when FGL replaces George Strait as the format's standard-bearer, you know something's really rotten, and having another mediocre tune such as this reaching #1 @ Mediabase next weekend after Jason's latest piece of musical mediocrity reaches the penthouse by Saturday merely shows how far the format has fallen thanks to one excruciating act and a deluge of equally awful copycats in barely 2 1/2 years. I agree that Jason's song is "musical mediocrity" but Canaan's song will be hitting #1 on MB this weekend or not at all - this week is the final push as Mercury put up a "max spins now" ad in Aircheck this week. It's gained over 700 spins and 4.6 million in audience this week and I expect "Love You Like That" to reach #1 on the MB rolling chart by Sunday morning. Jason's song will most likely be #1 on Billboard and take over MB the following week.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 21:24:18 GMT -5
I don't quite agree with the dissatisfaction with this going to #1. Barring personal opinions of the song itself, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't hit the top. Sales are still strong and I don't even see any significantly high burn rates on the Callout charts. Canaan's album did sell poorly, but album sales in general have been going down and what really matters is how this single itself is performing with listeners, not a full album of Canaan's other material. One other minor disagreement I have is over the idea that Broken Bow is intentionally playing nice here. We've really never seen this sort of style of promotion with Broken Bow in the past. They've always been pretty cutthroat about fighting for as many weeks at #1 as possible, and they've made some pretty shocking multi-week #1 songs ("When She Says Baby," "Yeah," "Carolina"). I think Jason's more modest gains this week are actually a result of Canaan's #1 push. I'd guess a lot of radio stations are giving some of Jason's spins to Canaan this week since Mercury is doing a final push for Canaan's record, while Jason's is likely to hang around for another two weeks. I guess we'll be able to judge next week how manufactured this push was based on how hard Canaan falls. I suspect this may be a similar situation to "Whatever She's Got," "Ain't Worth the Whiskey," and "Love Me Like You Mean It" where we see a song have a huge final bullet but still fall relatively slowly, indicating that the #1 push wasn't so manufactured. Wow, you're reading the situation way differently than I am. First off, I have to say that this is one of the worst pushes I've ever seen. This song went for adds on July 21, 2014, and now I'm expected to believe that it can suddenly gain 254 spins in one day? The way the whole system works just absolutely disgusts me. Label: "Uh, hey radio, we want to be #1 this week, what can we do to make it happen?" Radio: "Well, paying us is illegal (wink wink!), but we'd love a bunch of concert tickets and meet and greets for the next time your artist is in town...oh, and if they could play a free station-sponsored show (from which they'd receive $0), that'd be great!!" Label: "Alright, we can do that!! You'll get the tickets in the mail, or whenever one of our promo reps stops by!" Radio: "Sweet!! You'll be #1 in a few weeks' time...we've got it all planned out. So-and-so bought er, is going for #1 this week, then so-and-so will be #1 next week, and then it'll be your turn!" AllAccess: "Just heard from our radio contacts...there are going to be 12 #1's in the next 12 weeks, so make sure we pre-order donuts every Sunday so we can deliver them to the label and congratulate them." UGH! Secondly, I agree that sales are down, but Canaan's album sales were especially low in his debut week. Only selling 12,000, when you've had an ENTIRE year to build up to the album release, is absolutely terrible. Fans might be buying this single, but I suspect that the casual radio fan can't distinguish Canaan Smith's voice from the other 200 male voices out there on the radio. This song isn't doing well because it's Canaan Smith--it's doing well because it's the latest flavor of the moment (or year, I should say, since this has been out for a year). And while I do think single sales are of some importance, I think it's dangerous for anyone to place too much importance on them. The sales success of this one track does not mean that Canaan Smith is more popular than Jason Aldean. Aldean's song isn't going to sell as much, because it's the 3rd single from an album that's been out for many months and has already sold nearly 1 million copies. An additional 350,000 people have purchased "Tonight Looks Good On You" as a stand-alone track, which means that a total of 1.35 million people have purchased TLGOY legally. Also of note, Canaan's song had fallen below Jason's on the iTunes chart prior to the release of Bronco (Canaan was selling a few thousand copies a week less than Jason was for much of the month of June). Thirdly, I think BBR is absolutely playing nice here. As you said, they know that Jason's song isn't done gaining yet. It can probably keep climbing easily for another 1-2 weeks yet. But here's the thing--Jason came into the week a full 6.1 million ahead of Canaan on Billboard, and he was 2400 points ahead of him on Mediabase. With Blake falling, Jason was in an easy position to ascend to #1. And yet, here's the ad that BBR has been running in Aircheck this week: They note he's #2 and was a top points gainer last week, and yet there's no "max spins now" or "power up for #1" text. I have never seen it where a song was #2 with such a HUGE lead and just decided to sit back and rest on its laurels. So here's my question: why wouldn't BBR go for #1 on both charts this week, when they were so far ahead of Canaan? I'm convinced that it's because BBR knew Mercury had Canaan's HUGE push arranged for weeks in advance, and they (BBR) know Jason's song still has a few weeks to climb yet, and therefore I am 110% positive that they're playing nice here. Canaan might still come up short on Billboard which would please me to no end, but he's making it way closer than it should be, and it definitely looks like he's going to get the MB #1. But it's just really annoying, because all Jason needed to do was gain another 3 million this week (he gained nearly 3.3 mil on BB last week), and then Canaan would have had to gain 9 mil just to pass him. Jason is still gaining this week, but to me it clearly looks that he's pulled into the right lane and slowed down to 45 mph, and has allowed Canaan to swerve into the left lane and ramp it up to 90 mph for just 1 week. I don't know how hard Canaan will fall next week. Maybe he won't fall quite so hard, because he doesn't have as many weeks in top 10-level or top 20-level rotation. But it doesn't really matter to me. The way I see it, this push is absolutely, completely 100% manufactured, and it makes a mockery of the whole system. The charts (especially Mediabase) no longer reflect the natural order of radio airplay and the way that playlists fluctuate every week. Instead, the charts simply reflect which label loopholed their way around the whole "no payola" clause that week. I think in 2015, this song hitting #1 is not to be anything surprised about. I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but I still am. I've been religiously watching the charts for years as well, but this still shocks me. Canaan's numbers this week are just insane. A brand new Luke Bryan single fresh out of the oven might not even go up this fast in its 1st week.
|
|
|
Post by Daryl the Beryl on Jul 11, 2015 6:12:36 GMT -5
#1 on MB:
4 1 CANAAN SMITH Love You Like That 7959 6826 1133 55.319
|
|
|
Post by Daryl the Beryl on Jul 11, 2015 6:13:07 GMT -5
Now we watch it plummet next week.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 6:42:56 GMT -5
LOL it's funny to see this song and "Love Me Like You Mean It" get their highest lifetime bullet in their final week. That doesn't seem very likely to me. Like every station is just like "hmm okay, we've been playing this song since October and 80 times a week, but give us some free concert tix and HELL WE'LL PLAY IT 100 TIMES!!!!1111"
It's reasons like this that I DON'T want to watch charts. When you think about it, it really doesn't matter anyway. I have plenty of friends who are average casual listeners and if I asked them, they'd probably say that they heard "Talladega" just as much as "Little Red Wagon" just as much as "Crushin' It" just as much as "Sangria".
Especially with this nonsense of everybody getting a turn at the top, your peaks mean less and less.
My guess is it will be a while before we ever see another Canaan Smith song in the top 10.
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 11, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -5
Good grief at Canaan's update today, up 226 spins and over 1.4 million in total audience. Remember when Kelsea got that insane push to reach #1? Canaan's song has now equaled her audience gained that week (7.3 million) and has increased 1127 spins, which is about 150 more spins than "Love Me Like You Mean It" got...with one more day to go. I've brought this up before but country radio and record labels do not hold the "integrity" of the charts as high on a pedestal as we do here. Program directors and manager directors have friendships that sometimes span years with the promotion departments with these labels and even deejay's have friendships with the folks who work to promote singles. They're just helping their friends out and like jhomes87 mentioned before, these push weeks are planned a few weeks in advance. These pushes are so calculated, it's borders on sickening. In the end, the label, the writers, and the artist get to call their song a #1 single, and 99% of the fans won't think twice because they just don't know the inner workings of massive pushes, nor do they even care enough to know. Every friend I have couldn't tell you where any song is on the MB or Billboard chart that is currently charting - heck the majority of them could care less. This appeases the labels and artists, nothing more; and radio doesn't care enough about "natural peaks" to help people like us out either.
|
|
Zazie
5x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 5,144
|
Post by Zazie on Jul 11, 2015 15:02:41 GMT -5
I have to decide afresh every day whether I want to keep track of the BB country chart any longer. If it weren't for having a small group of friends who enjoy charts as much as I do, I would decide to quit based on this awful week.
I understand that a new artist might need 30+ chart weeks to reach #1, so the extra longevity of LYLT is not what bothers me. It's the PUSH this late in the chart run. And, signifying worse things to come, it's the similarity this one bears to Ballerini's chart run. What do we get next -- a song that charts for 60 weeks in the 51 to 60 range of the BB chart, only to rise to #1 in chart week 61?
The country charts had a long period of looking awful in the 70's and 80's, and it turned out that was because they were awful. They were faked. If I'd known that, I'd have quit back then. But then I got spoiled by the BB data-based charts (refreshing) of the 1990's and 2010's. I started to expect honest charts. And now I'm being asked to retreat to the 70's again? I'm not sure I can do it.
Those of you who see nothing wrong with this chart run, I wish you luck. I didn't see anything wrong 40 years ago, so I can't criticize you now. But that doesn't mean I don't disagree with you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 21:10:23 GMT -5
So apparently Dierks Bentley, Kip Moore, Maddie & Tae, and their bands all pranked Canaan LAST NIGHT already in celebration of his very first #1 hit...before the song even went #1... I mean, yeah, any chart-watcher could see that Canaan was going to get to #1 on MB this weekend, but wow, if this doesn't show how rigged the charts are, then I don't know what does. This "#1" was bought weeks in advance. Labels might not be able to exchange cash for airplay, but they've sure found their way around the whole "no payola" law dozens of times in the last several years now, and these insane pushes are only getting worse.. Like Zazie said, I'm to the point where I have to decide every day whether I want to continue following the charts at all anymore. Stunts like this absurd #1 push make me wonder why I even bother. I guess it's because I'm such a fan of country music and therefore I'm always going to want to know how my favorite songs are doing (that's just how I am), but these pushes make it extremely difficult to even care anymore. I wonder what it would take for Mediabase to change their methodology? It's far too easy for labels to manipulate their way to #1. Canaan is still a few spins below Jason, and he's 2 mil behind in audience, and yet he's "#1". Like, how does that even make sense? Of course, even if Mediabase did wise up and change their methodology, the labels would probably find another way to get around it and still push for the #1 anyway.. And sabre14, I'm sorry, but I just don't believe all this talk about "friendships" between radio, labels, and artists. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of genuine friendships among label reps and radio staffers and artists--I'm not denying that--but does anyone really think that artists would visit radio stations nearly as much if they didn't depend so heavily on radio airplay? I don't. And for radio staffers, of course they're going to like/be friends with the artists...you would too if you got to meet and hang out with a lot of famous artists/celebrities. I'm sure everybody's friendly with one another, but when it comes down to it, it's all about business. Radio wins when the artists stop by and when they can get concert tickets to give away to their listeners. And the more listeners a station has, the better their ratings are, and the more they can make from advertisers. Listeners win because they get concert tickets and meet and greets. Labels and artists win because the radio stations promise them airplay, especially when they need it...and increased exposure on radio leads to higher sales and higher concert attendance/revenue. And thus, everybody wins. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Everybody gets a trophy. Anyway, all I can say is THANK GOD that Jason Aldean is still tracking #1 on Billboard. Hopefully that holds, that way I never have to consider "Love You Like That" a #1 song. I don't care if the fans do or if the industry does. They can do what they want. I believe Billboard's methodology to be far more credible.
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 11, 2015 22:07:21 GMT -5
And sabre14, I'm sorry, but I just don't believe all this talk about "friendships" between radio, labels, and artists. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of genuine friendships among label reps and radio staffers and artists--I'm not denying that--but does anyone really think that artists would visit radio stations nearly as much if they didn't depend so heavily on radio airplay? I don't. And for radio staffers, of course they're going to like/be friends with the artists...you would too if you got to meet and hang out with a lot of famous artists/celebrities. I'm sure everybody's friendly with one another, but when it comes down to it, it's all about business. Radio wins when the artists stop by and when they can get concert tickets to give away to their listeners. And the more listeners a station has, the better their ratings are, and the more they can make from advertisers. Listeners win because they get concert tickets and meet and greets. Labels and artists win because the radio stations promise them airplay, especially when they need it...and increased exposure on radio leads to higher sales and higher concert attendance/revenue. And thus, everybody wins. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Everybody gets a trophy. Anyway, all I can say is THANK GOD that Jason Aldean is still tracking #1 on Billboard. Hopefully that holds, that way I never have to consider "Love You Like That" a #1 song. I don't care if the fans do or if the industry does. They can do what they want. I believe Billboard's methodology to be far more credible. I'm not sure why you think I differ from your first two paragraphs here? Of course it's a business, and I know that ticket giveaways and meet and greets are a win/win/win for radio stations, labels/artists and listeners alike. I agree that it's a, in you words, "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. My point about built-up friendships is just one part of what I believe is part of these pushes and radio is helping their friends at the label out when these predetermined pushed happen. Perhaps I should have expanded on multiple points in my earlier post to make it not seem like the built-up friendships are the "only" thing at work here, which I agree is simply not true and the fact that these ways around a payloa have gotten absurd. Not to make it seem like your tooting your own horn in your last paragraph about Billboard being more credible (which you clearly have support here for, lol) but I definitely at the very least sense your frustrations about Canaan's manufactured #1 and, MB in general. The reason I follow that chart closer than others is simply because it was the one I personally grew up with; and I have stated multiple times that the only huge problem I have are these manipulations for a #1 single. I do wish they can change their methodology to incorporate a higher importance on total audience and less about spins, which is where labels can get their way with these in advance pushes. I still understand Pulse is an extremely low percentage of people and I respect the fact you know about these awful pushes and disregard this #1 (I do too in this case), but it really is unfortunate since the industry and media outlets will call this song a #1 single, and I just hope your top doesn't blow off your shoulders the first time they reference "Love You Like That" a #1 single, lol. BTW: There's little chance Canaan's song will be #1 on Billboard as the audience is still just too far behind by my tracking for Mercury to make up in two days, especially with Jason's song still increasing. I don't think you have much to worry about. :)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 22:49:56 GMT -5
Sabre--I never said you differed from my first two paragraphs there :) I was just going off about what you said about friendships (hence why I tagged you), and trying to explain (to others reading the thread) how I perceive the industry. Based on your posting history, I've always assumed that you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on how radio, artists, and labels interact with one another. I tagged you because I've seen you reference "friendships" a few times recently...and I just cringe every time I hear that term when someone is referring to relationships within the music industry, lol. Again, I'm not denying that there are some actual friendships formed, but it all just seems so fake and contrived (and even a bit cheesy) to me. I don't for one second believe that labels would chauffeur their artists around to every radio station if they didn't need to appease radio. The only reason they do it is because they need radio to like them and play the songs from their artists (because labels and artists depend so heavily on airplay. Without it, they wouldn't be nearly as successful). So what some people call "friendships"...I call "brown-nosing", "sucking up", or just general BS, lol And I get that you like Mediabase and that everybody in Nashville right now thinks it's the best chart in the world...but that's because it's SO easy to get a #1 there (and again, I know you know this). Mediabase is perfectly content with letting the labels/radio run roughshod over them. In my opinion, that completely devalues their chart. They are not independent from radio (heck, Mediabase is owned by iHeartMedia) the way Billboard is. I feel that Billboard takes a more journalistic role in that they report on the industry, and are somewhat part of the industry themselves, and yet, at the same time, they are on the outside looking in. Years ago when MCA cheated Billboard's chart to get a #1 with Reba's "Somebody", Billboard recognized the error of their ways -- they responded by changing their methodology, switching from a ranking based on spins to a ranking based on audience. Mediabase, on the other hand, seems like they'd be content to have 52 #1's in a year. And I like what trebor said the other day...Billboard is known worldwide, they are sourced on Wikipedia and other books (Whitburn). You grew up with Mediabase, and I grew up with Billboard, and the main reason is because Billboard info is so easy to find on the internet. Mediabase info...isn't. I could go to the Billboard website or Wikipedia and learn when and where an artist's song peaked. I can't do that with Mediabase. I respect the fact that you and others primarily follow the Mediabase chart. And I'm not trying to change anybody's opinion (well, maybe subconsciously I am--oops). Mostly I'm just trying to explain why I prefer Billboard, and why I don't think much of Mediabase-only #1's. And so, even though Canaan's push really annoys me (like, really really annoys me), and even though I know there will be a #1 party and ads from Mercury thanking radio for the #1, I'm just glad that "Love You Like That" won't be a #1 in my eyes, because it isn't likely to pass Jason on Billboard.
|
|
sabre14
Diamond Member
Vince Gill & the Muppets make everything better
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 26,916
|
Post by sabre14 on Jul 11, 2015 23:32:02 GMT -5
Sabre--I never said you differed from my first two paragraphs there :) I was just going off about what you said about friendships (hence why I tagged you), and trying to explain (to others reading the thread) how I perceive the industry. Based on your posting history, I've always assumed that you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on how radio, artists, and labels interact with one another. I tagged you because I've seen you reference "friendships" a few times recently...and I just cringe every time I hear that term when someone is referring to relationships within the music industry, lol. Again, I'm not denying that there are some actual friendships formed, but it all just seems so fake and contrived (and even a bit cheesy) to me. I don't for one second believe that labels would chauffeur their artists around to every radio station if they didn't need to appease radio. The only reason they do it is because they need radio to like them and play the songs from their artists (because labels and artists depend so heavily on airplay. Without it, they wouldn't be nearly as successful). So what some people call "friendships"...I call "brown-nosing", "sucking up", or just general BS, lol And I get that you like Mediabase and that everybody in Nashville right now thinks it's the best chart in the world...but that's because it's SO easy to get a #1 there (and again, I know you know this). Mediabase is perfectly content with letting the labels/radio run roughshod over them. In my opinion, that completely devalues their chart. They are not independent from radio (heck, Mediabase is owned by iHeartMedia) the way Billboard is. I feel that Billboard takes a more journalistic role in that they report on the industry, and are somewhat part of the industry themselves, and yet, at the same time, they are on the outside looking in. Years ago when MCA cheated Billboard's chart to get a #1 with Reba's "Somebody", Billboard recognized the error of their ways -- they responded by changing their methodology, switching from a ranking based on spins to a ranking based on audience. Mediabase, on the other hand, seems like they'd be content to have 52 #1's in a year. And I like what trebor said the other day...Billboard is known worldwide, they are sourced on Wikipedia and other books (Whitburn). You grew up with Mediabase, and I grew up with Billboard, and the main reason is because Billboard info is so easy to find on the internet. Mediabase info...isn't. I could go to the Billboard website or Wikipedia and learn when and where an artist's song peaked. I can't do that with Mediabase. I respect the fact that you and others primarily follow the Mediabase chart. And I'm not trying to change anybody's opinion (well, maybe subconsciously I am--oops). Mostly I'm just trying to explain why I prefer Billboard, and why I don't think much of Mediabase-only #1's. And so, even though Canaan's push really annoys me (like, really really annoys me), and even though I know there will be a #1 party and ads from Mercury thanking radio for the #1, I'm just glad that "Love You Like That" won't be a #1 in my eyes, because it isn't likely to pass Jason on Billboard. Hey, I'm not saying those built-up relationships are not "cheesy and fake", because I feel they 100% are. Radio tours are absolutely the definition of brown-nosing. It's like the artist/record label rep and the station say "You know why we're here (airplay). Yep, and we know what you want (airplay), and you know what we want (tickets, meet and greets, contest giveaways)". *wink, wink* It's total BS, absolutely, and we definitely agree on that. I will say that happens in so many professions though. I mean, I've heard so many stories from my father about his meetings with "clients" and having to appease them, just to get their business. They're not really friends, they just want that special business that affects their bottom line, and nothing more. Radio and the music industry is that way as well. I also see where we went on different paths growing up, and hence why I have more R&R/MB knowledge than most here, lol. I did not have the internet at home until I was 15 years old...no seriously. The only time I ever went online was in school during study hall, and I would use much of that time looking at the weekly R&R charts and doing my own chart projections. When I was little I got the CCUSA show on WYRK and since I didn't have online access at home, that became my only extension to chart data up until I was probably 13 or 14. By the time I was halfway through high school and had a decent amount of online access, I was pretty much sealed into following R&R. I liked Billboard and I respected it but I guess I was too busy and I decided to just use what I got (R&R/MB knowledge) and get as well informed about it as I possibly could, lol. That's why you see me with a very unhealthy amount of knowledge about R&R/MB peaks from 2001 or so through the present time, and 2003-2007 is my bread and butter. Anyway, the pushes got out of hand just a few years ago. Even after the "Somebody" debacle, there were still numerous long lasting #1 stays on both R&R/MB and Billboard, and it wasn't until about 2008/2009 where it went awry for MB. Sometimes the R&R only #1's ten years ago was by mostly good fortune more than anything. Then Billboard decided to shoot themselves in the foot with that ridiculous new Hot Country Songs chart which no doubt soured them in the eyes of Nashville's music industry, which you eluded to in the past. I will forever know that people here hate MB, though I actually like Billboard right back. :) We do agree that Canaan's push angers us to dangerous levels and he doesn't deserve any #1. The fact I dislike the song only adds fuel to the fire.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 0:37:09 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again--if Billboard wants to become more relevant within the country industry, they need to super-serve the country music industry. Their Monday and Thursday updates have had pretty good info in them, but again, it's more of a journalistic/neutral approach. They don't reach out to country radio as much as Lon Helton and his Country Aircheck publication do. But perhaps the best thing Billboard can do is to get a major countdown show to use their chart instead of the Mediabase chart...or they could just create their own and then sell it to radio stations. The problem right now--or at least this is what the problem is widely perceived to be, as far as I understand it--is that Billboard charges too much for their data, and the companies that own the countdown shows don't want to pay that much. Competitive pricing (with MB) would help their cause. Bob Kinglsey's CT40 was created by Bob himself (and it's produced by his own production company), and he chose to use Mediabase data. American Country Countdown used Billboard up until August 2009. ACC is produced and distributed by Cumulus. If Billboard ever came to some sort of a deal with Cumulus, then maybe the ACC show would go back to using Billboard data. (I actually find it surprising that ACC switched to Mediabase in the first place, because Mediabase is owned by iHeartMedia, and IHM and Cumulus are rivals). And CMT's Country Countdown USA chose Lon Helton as host, and Helton has always been a Mediabase/R&R guy. All the countdown shows have moved away from Billboard, and with the rise of Country Aircheck, well, the rest is history. Billboard would never publicly admit that they're less popular than Mediabase right now (within the country music industry, that is; elsewhere, charts like the Hot 100 still rule), but I think they're smart enough to know that it's the truth. And I wish that they would DO something about it. Continuing to tout the Hot Country Songs chart is NOT the answer, especially when the new HCS methodology allowed a pop remix with a rapper (FGL's "Cruise" with Nelly) to rewrite the record for "longest-running country #1". Because, you know, that totally makes sense.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 3:38:59 GMT -5
jhomes87, you've made some great points about how manufactured this system is and as I have already agreed in the second paragraph of my previous post, which was removed in the post you quoted, this #1 push for Canaan Smith is indeed very manipulative and unnatural. However, the point I am making is that there was no need for this push. Mercury could have easily waited until after Jason is finished at #1 to do their push and still secured the #1 for Canaan on both charts. "Love You Like That" was climbing steadily through the Top 10 and on pace to hit #1 in a few weeks, then out of nowhere Canaan's label did this huge #1 push several weeks earlier than they needed to. Canaan wouldn't have needed to put up these huge gains to reach #1 if his label waited a week or so. Rather than gaining 1300-1400 spins in one week, I see no reason why Canaan couldn't have gained 400-500 spins over three weeks. This is a ridiculous push, but the idea of this song going to #1 doesn't seem ridiculous to me at all. Actually, under natural circumstances, Canaan would have been more likely to hit #1 on Billboard than he is this week. By doing this big push when Jason Aldean is still a threat, Canaan's label is throwing away what would have been an easy #1 on Billboard Country Airplay. I think the theory 43dudleyvillas proposed a while back about Sony's promotion teams may be true about Universal. It seems Canaan's label scheduled this #1 push several weeks earlier, before Jason had passed Canaan on the charts, and Mercury is for some reason unwilling or unable to adjust their plans now that Jason is going up ahead of Canaan, so all they can try to do is push Canaan back ahead before Jason hits the top, regardless of how insanely large the gap between TLGOY and LLYT has gotten. Canaan would have put up the same levels of airplay he is putting up now naturally. He just would have done so a few weeks later and without the huge gains in one week. The gains are manufactured, but I don't believe the #1 peak position or the final numbers are undeserved at all. As for the album sales, I just don't see how a poor album turnout reflects poorly on a single if it's still doing great on iTunes. What radio stations are playing is "Love You Like That," not "Canaan Smith" or Bronco. It is really irrelevant to me whether listeners are interested in Canaan Smith as an artist or if they want to buy an album full of his other songs. The sales and research numbers for this individual single reflect that listeners are buying it and want to hear it, and so it deserves to go to #1. This is one of the things I prefer about pop radio over country radio. Airplay on pop radio is not so artist driven. Radio is willing to give every single a fair shake regardless of the status of the artist who releases it, and singles are judged based on their individual merits. There are plenty of one-hit wonders at pop radio who release one single that becomes an instant classic but fail to ever come close to replicating the success of that single. It doesn't matter to pop radio whether an artist has any longevity or a stable base of fans who will continue to buy albums or future singles. If that one song tests or sells well, radio will play it as much as it deserves to be played. Maybe Canaan will be a one-hit wonder and no other single of his will ever catch on, but the numbers for this single suggest it deserves to be a#1 hit, regardless of how listeners feel about the artist's other music. The sales for "Love You Like That" are simply outstanding. This has been in the Top 200 on iTunes ever since it was in the Top 50 on the airplay chart and even after almost a year LLYT is still selling as well as singles by A-list stars. As for the Jason Aldean comparison, I was never trying to imply that Canaan Smith is more popular than Jason Aldean. That would be crazy, lol. But referring back to the point in my previous paragraph, radio is playing singles, not artists. I'm not comparing artist to artist. I'm comparing single to single. I do believe that LLYT is a bit more popular and memorable than TLGOY. Not that TLGOY doesn't deserve to be a solid #1, but the single sales for Canaan's record have been amazing considering Canaan has way less name recognition than Aldean and has been on the chart way longer than TLGOY. Also, I agree that good album sales can redeem bad single sales, and Jason Aldean's album sales would be a factor here. However, I don't think that bad album sales can discredit a strong-selling single at all. Basically, to me it makes sense to say, "This single isn't selling well, but the artist's album is selling well, so the single must be popular," but it doesn't make sense to say, "This single is selling well, but the artist's album isn't selling well, so the single mustn't be popular." So while the good album sales can be used to Jason's credit, I don't think Canaan's poor album sales can be used to support the idea that a single with as amazing sales as "Love You Like That" doesn't deserve to be a #1 hit. I'll be very disappointed if this doesn't hit #1 on Billboard, as I've seen no numbers to suggest that Canaan doesn't deserve this #1. However, I'll at least be satisfied if UMG learns its lesson about being too "trigger-happy" and jumping the gun with these early #1 pushes. Maybe in the future Universal will learn to wait until a single's natural peak week to push for #1 instead of trying to force a song up the charts several weeks sooner than it naturally should go up.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 3:54:04 GMT -5
I don't think if Canaan waited next week he'd get to the top. This push while a headscratcher makes sense if Canaan had waited next week I think Jason and Broken Bow would've done what they could block Canaan's song. I am more curious about how Canaan's sophomore song does.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 4:02:09 GMT -5
I don't think if Canaan waited next week he'd get to the top. This push while a headscratcher makes sense if Canaan had waited next week I think Jason and Broken Bow would've done what they could block Canaan's song. I am more curious about how Canaan's sophomore song does. Well, what I had really expected was Warner would've kept pushing "Sangria" this week, and we'd get a split #1 this weekend between Blake on Mediabase and Jason on Billboard. Then, I was expecting Jason to lock up both charts next week. By the following week (week of July 20), I think Jason would be at high enough levels of airplay that TLGOY would be bound to start falling and a nice moderate #1 push from Mercury could have gotten Canaan to the top. I do believe that Warner only pulled Blake's song this week because they saw Canaan was getting a push. If Canaan weren't being pushed this week and the only #1 challenger were Jason Aldean, I think Warner would have gotten more competitive with "Sangria" as Warner and Broken Bow don't have the sort of friendly relationship Warner seems to have with Sony and Universal.
|
|