Has stan culture overtaken fan culture?

[14887fan]

We're all aware that there is a difference between being a fan and a stan, but it seems as though there is less and less of fans and more and more of stans.

For those that don't know the difference (how have you managed your way around PMB?), a fan could be defined as a loyal music listener devoted to a certain artist/to certain artists, purchase their music instead of ripping it, voting for him/her/them at awards shows when applicable, etc. A stan could be defined as a somewhat-obsessive and/or extremely avid pursuer of an artist/certain artists, providing undying support and dedicating more time than a normal fan would towards showing that support, whether it be through social networking, numerous concert attendances, moderate to excessive memorabilia purchases, etc.

Maybe I'm just thinking within the confines of PMB, Twitter, the rest of the internet, etc., but it seems as though stan culture has grown exponentially and rapidly to overcome casual fandoms and I know it raises a lot of eyebrows around the industry. Having an inside connection to a well-known group that has seen their fair share of rather 'obsessive' (I use that term somewhat loosely) stans, I've learned that it's actually become somewhat of an issue because of how much more competitive things have become in the industry. We all know that plenty of divas have been pitted against each other by fans in the past (some of the most notorious including Celine/Mariah/Whitney, Madonna/Lady Gaga, Lady Gaga/just about every Pop star in the late '00s/'10s, Britney/Christina, etc.), but it's become more and more apparent and intense with today's current state of music (Nicki/Iggy being the most recent/current, with others including Kelly/Carrie, Britney/Lady Gaga, Katy/Rihanna/Gaga/whoever else, etc.). Is Internet to blame? I'm genuinely interested in hearing what others have to say, because it looks like it's no longer artist vs. artist (although, was it ever?), but more so stan vs. stan, and fans have become grossly outnumbered. 

[Fat Ass Kelly Price]

Short answer: Yes.

And I hate it.

[surfy]

Yes... I'm cool with it! :)

[Deleted]

Fan culture killed Selena and I don't think that's happened with stan culture yet so I'm generally not that upset about this.

[Mr. Thonk Eyes]

It has, and we can all thank Mr. Marshall Mathers' (Eminem's) amazing song "Stan" for this

[Deleted]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I can give this question a straight answer.

On one hand, the "stan" culture does seem stronger than ever, especially when you add in media coverage and hype as a whole.

On the other hand, sales are so centered around the digital age/single sales that it seems like the shift has brought out more causal fans than hardcore ones.

Nowadays, people buy singles that they like, but it wouldn't necessarily mean they would spend money on an album, or that they're anything other than a fan of a few songs here and there.

The stan culture has gotten stronger with social media interaction, but there's a difference between buying a few singles and paying for an album or to see that artist perform live, ya know?

[Deleted]

I see it from all points of views and some are directly hypocritical to each other but short answer, the only time stan culture bothers me is when they are stanning for everything but the music.

[14887fan]

Jul 7, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5 @spiritanimal said:

I see it from all points of views and some are directly hypocritical to each other but short answer, the only time stan culture bothers me is when they are stanning for everything but the music.

LOVE this, and I couldn't agree more. Stan culture is so wrapped up in chart placement, how many followers their favorite has on social media sites, etc. that it's strayed immensely far away from the music itself.

[vipanonymous]

I was looking fast at the home and i've thought i read "satan"

The stan culture is a evolution of the fan culture. Thanks to internet, who allowed artists moves to be much much more accessible to everyone. With all that "freedom" people started to be more obsessive about their idols. Following, mimicking everything that they do.I think they also have a sense of belonging to a clan, or something like that. That's not something bad, you just need to know how to manage your feelings and be yourself no matter what. I just think that some people are so blinded that every type of disagreement of opinion, which is absolutely normal, starts a third world war.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Jul 7, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5 @spiritanimal said:

I see it from all points of views and some are directly hypocritical to each other but short answer, the only time stan culture bothers me is when they are stanning for everything but the music.

To extrapolate on that point, I think it's bothersome when the fans are stanning for anything other than what the artist puts out there for the people.

In 2008, I would have emphasized music only but then Lady Gaga came along and turned that perspective completely on its head. For me, when I stan for her, I stan for her music but also her presentations, videos, live performances, public appearances, etc. I realized with Gaga that my other favs, even the true-blue piano-playing non-pulse-famous singer/songwriters are more to me than just the music in many cases.

Stanning becomes a problem when people pit their favs against others and it becomes an unnecessary and bitter competition about chart numbers, sales, positions, and how one is better than the other using the stupidest little details. X is better than Y because X writes their own stuff. Y is better than Z because Y doesn't use autotune. Z is better than A because A is always photoshopped. A is better than B because A can perform without the use of backup singers. etc. It's stupid.

But stan culture is fun to me when people who all like the same artist can group together and in unison agree that their fav totally slayed. If stans could stick with the artist's intended purposes and not deviate to nonsense competitions of A>B, all would be well.

[Deleted]

Thing is and I'm fully aware I'm going to sound like a hypocrite but

1) I actually enjoy the stan wars when its based on music, singles, vocals, dance ability, albums, tours, MUSICALLY

2) I hate its when based on well " katy is #1 and sold this much and Ciara flopped so her music is garbage" where is she on the charts? yadada

I know i throw out my QUEENS 510 million net worth, staggering 18 number 1 records and 200+ million sold WW, but end of the day that is all for fun and jokes, Mariah Carey would have been my favorite if she had a career like Kelly Clarkson, heartbroken and lacking in #'s because I always loved Mariah's voices, musicality and albums over numbers. I respect many people regardless of what they achieve as long as I feel they can A) sing or B) dance.

If stan culture just kept it on music, I would have ZERO problems with it. I agree with Maxine that its always a FESTIVE time when fans/stans get together in a thread to celebrate when something or someone they enjoy is doing something amazing, like a hot new song, a great performance.

[slayZ]

Gaga ruins everything.

[Deleted]

 That leads me to another point though, stans are oblivious to their own stanbases, no? It certainly wasn't Gaga who once made me chase someone out of my building because they were talking and playing so much s**t. #dejavu.

[14887fan]

Jul 13, 2014 19:36:31 GMT -5 slayZ said:

Gaga ruins everything.

It's not like Gaga was the first major artist to have a monstrous (no pun intended) fanbase/stanbase, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

The first fanbase I became aware of were Mariah's lambs. Then Bieber's and then probably Gaga's.
But even before those, the deadheads are kind of legendary as fans of a band. And the Dave Matthews Band have a similarly dedicated modern version of that.

[K.]

Jul 6, 2014 23:30:03 GMT -5 14887fan said:

For those that don't know the difference (how have you managed your way around PMB?), a fan could be defined as a loyal music listener devoted to a certain artist/to certain artists, purchase their music instead of ripping it, voting for him/her/them at awards shows when applicable, etc. A stan could be defined as a somewhat-obsessive and/or extremely avid pursuer of an artist/certain artists, providing undying support and dedicating more time than a normal fan would towards showing that support, whether it be through social networking, numerous concert attendances, moderate to excessive memorabilia purchases, etc.

Joining this conversation late, but I always thought that the second definition was just a really big fan (/stalker). Fans have been around a long time, the word is derived from fanatic -- someone who is obsessed perhaps to an unhealthy degree with a particular artist. The Beatles, Elvis, Backstreet Boys . . . they all had fanatics.

A "stan," by contrast, to me means somebody who expresses their fanaticism negatively rather than positively - primarily by disparaging other artists and fans.

I may be totally off base with those interpretations, it's just how I've always understood them. I think social media has accentuated stan culture because fans are being challenged in their opinions in a way they weren't really before the internet and message boards.

[areyoureadytojump]

Jul 7, 2014 14:57:42 GMT -5 vipanonymous said:

I was looking fast at the home and i've thought i read "satan"

The stan culture is a evolution of the fan culture. Thanks to internet, who allowed artists moves to be much much more accessible to everyone. With all that "freedom" people started to be more obsessive about their idols. Following, mimicking everything that they do.I think they also have a sense of belonging to a clan, or something like that. That's not something bad, you just need to know how to manage your feelings and be yourself no matter what. I just think that some people are so blinded that every type of disagreement of opinion, which is absolutely normal, starts a third world war.

[Deleted]

Mariah and Madonna put stans on the map, the internet was also then becoming popular in the mid 90's.

Mariah was actually the first to name her stans in the internet age anyways, "The Lambs" were the birth of standom, lets be real.

[Deleted]

lol watch there be a stan war on who popularized standom, kiii.

[Mr. Thonk Eyes]

Jul 14, 2014 22:20:34 GMT -5 @spiritanimal said:

lol watch there be a stan war on who popularized standom, kiii.

IMO even though there were artists being stanned for in the 90s, Eminem popularized the term stan for all the crazy fans I believe

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2014 18:15:22 GMT -5 K. said:

Jul 6, 2014 23:30:03 GMT -5 14887fan said:

For those that don't know the difference (how have you managed your way around PMB?), a fan could be defined as a loyal music listener devoted to a certain artist/to certain artists, purchase their music instead of ripping it, voting for him/her/them at awards shows when applicable, etc. A stan could be defined as a somewhat-obsessive and/or extremely avid pursuer of an artist/certain artists, providing undying support and dedicating more tiInme than a normal fan would towards showing that support, whether it be through social networking, numerous concert attendances, moderate to excessive memorabilia purchases, etc.

Joining this conversation late, but I always thought that the second definition was just a really big fan (/stalker). Fans have been around a long time, the word is derived from fanatic -- someone who is obsessed perhaps to an unhealthy degree with a particular artist. The Beatles, Elvis, Backstreet Boys . . . they all had fanatics.

A "stan," by contrast, to me means somebody who expresses their fanaticism negatively rather than positively - primarily by disparaging other artists and fans.

I may be totally off base with those interpretations, it's just how I've always understood them. I think social media has accentuated stan culture because fans are being challenged in their opinions in a way they weren't really before the internet and message boards.

Interesting prospective; I've never thought of stanning as being negative, but I could see how others would perceive it that way.

Stanning, to me, is no different than being obsessed with a sports team or TV show or something.

I think the negative connotation is warranted in some sense, because a lot of fans do seem to take stanning way too far, and it's kinda glamorized with the rise/popularity of social media. The young, fanatical fans have existed since the Beatles and Elvis, and they'll exist with any new, popular act with a young fanbase.

But I think people tend to over exaggerate that kind of thing, because everyone grows out of that stage and/or they never experienced it at all.

It's too bad that most stans are obsessed with numbers, sales comparisons, etc. The stanning culture has made it all about who's better than another artist, and it seemed like it used to be more about just loving the music, and not necessarily focusing on all the petty aspects.

This reminds me of a recent example that came up with some friends, actually. I have a few friends that stan for Nirvana, and they were trying to get me into them as much as they were. I ended up liking them, but I don't love them, and I wouldn't be inclined to follow them musically, really.

But my friend was like, "You haven't heard xxx, no wonder you don't stan!"

It just struck me, because I thought "Why can't I just LIKE someone, and nothing more?" I don't need to absolutely adore/obsess stan over someone just because other people do.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2014 22:24:40 GMT -5 Mr. Thonk Eyes said:

Jul 14, 2014 22:20:34 GMT -5 @spiritanimal said:

lol watch there be a stan war on who popularized standom, kiii.

IMO even though there were artists being stanned for in the 90s, Eminem popularized the term stan for all the crazy fans I believe

he popularized the term but stanning doesn't really happen over people like Eminem for the most part.

[Mr. Thonk Eyes]

Jul 15, 2014 23:19:14 GMT -5 @spiritanimal said:

Jul 14, 2014 22:24:40 GMT -5 Mr. Thonk Eyes said:

IMO even though there were artists being stanned for in the 90s, Eminem popularized the term stan for all the crazy fans I believe

he popularized the term but stanning doesn't really happen over people like Eminem for the most part.

On a diva centered forum like pulse not a lot of people stan for him but outside pulse he actually has many stans

[Glove Slap]

Imo, there's two things going on at once. Casual fandom is becoming more relaxed while there's more ways to be a "stan" than ever. "Stanning", or what that term has been attached to in the new millennium has been around for a long time. This goes back to teenagers flipping out over the first Rock n Roll stars in the 50s, the British Invasion bands, dressing like MJ/Madonna/etc, and so on. It's people looking at artists as more than just people, and trying to see (selected) aspects of them as relatable to themselves. A lot of people who look up to others that much are usually very young and/or weak minded. Eventually they'll hopefully grow out of it, self-destruct, or just sit in limbo. In some ways, it's a natural progression of what has been going on into the social media age. Just very very concentrated. Social media has given many venues for people to behave a certain way without much consequence. Casual fandom has also evolved into being even more casual if that makes sense, because there's so much information around that more things are being balanced, leaving less time for just one thing you are casually interested in. Social media also allows people to play with and utilize their own personalities more than ever, so some individuals who may have looked up a lot to entertainers or actors or athletes aren't going to do that so much because they can directly express themselves. What this leaves is a smaller concentration of those who are "stans" who are very extreme versions of what would have been in the past.

My big pet peeve with this, is that it has smeared some peoples ability to be objective. Not so much on this board as on some others, but it's noticeable here too a bit. Phrases like "Song A was/is/would be a good single because it's personal and my favorite song on the album, therefore it's a hit", "Song A is better than Song B because the singer also wrote it", "this is a better single because it's mature and emotional", etc. are not objective in the least. There's 8 year olds with better reasoning skills than that. I'm sometimes bewildered by some of the thoughts and opinions I read because they're so badly informed and thought out when there's all this information just floating out there for you to read and incorporate into your thought. This also isn't limited to a certain age group, I've seen people into their 50s do this.

The irony lies in that for all the insanities of standom, those people are probably the biggest afterthought as far as business and marketing planning goes. If they're crazy enough to buy anything, Marketing doesn't even have to think of them cause they'll just gobble up whatever comes out. They may cause noise, but they don't make hits, they don't keep albums selling, they don't fill arenas and stadiums. Maybe the insanely expensive floor sections and first week downloads and purchases yes, but then there's the rest of the venue and the remainder of the song/album's potential, and that is decided upon by the casuals, which always constitute the vast majority. Lambs didn't make TEOM a success, casual purchases did. Monsters didn't make The Fame & The Fame Monster success, the casual public did. Same for every successful project ever. The "stan" sub-group of an artist's audience is very small, much much much smaller than internet forums would have you believe.