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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 20:17:12 GMT -5
this is doing decently on the pop charts and is in the top 50 for alt
59 50 ECHOSMITH Cool Kids 154 103 51 0.739
its nowhere as good as the other cool kid song
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 24, 2014 20:36:19 GMT -5
Anticipating some anti-pop crossover backlash for this one from some of the other rock posters. Don't know if I should be surprised that it took this long for it to make top 50 on alt, or that it actually made top 50 at all.
As for the song itself: I like the instrumentation but ugh, the lyrics couldn't be any more cliched if they tried. (Eeries > Echosmith btw)
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bluestar4
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Post by bluestar4 on Aug 24, 2014 23:28:40 GMT -5
Somebody needs to get alternative PD's a dictionary and point them to the word "alternative". That being said, only 5 stations are playing this, yet that's 5 too many. Still better than Lorde or Broods.
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 25, 2014 0:01:23 GMT -5
Somebody needs to get alternative PD's a dictionary and point them to the word "alternative". That being said, only 5 stations are playing this, yet that's 5 too many. Still better than Lorde or Broods. New Zealand will not be happy with this statement
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 25, 2014 1:13:33 GMT -5
Somebody needs to get alternative PD's a dictionary and point them to the word "alternative". That being said, only 5 stations are playing this, yet that's 5 too many. Still better than Lorde or Broods. Wow, 5 stations and 154 spins? Those stations must be leaning towards the pop spectrum/playing the crap out of this song. Hopefully it doesn't get much further though. Also, how do you know how many stations are playing each song? That's something I've been trying to figure out for a while now.
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 25, 2014 1:24:49 GMT -5
Somebody needs to get alternative PD's a dictionary and point them to the word "alternative". That being said, only 5 stations are playing this, yet that's 5 too many. Still better than Lorde or Broods. Wow, 5 stations and 154 spins? Those stations must be leaning towards the pop spectrum/playing the crap out of this song. Hopefully it doesn't get much further though. Also, how do you know how many stations are playing each song? That's something I've been trying to figure out for a while now. There may be a more advanced method but if you click on a song title it links you to a page of stations which spin the song during the week and how many times it's been played (here's "Cool Kids" - the most it's been played for a particular station is 44 times as of now). It's how I've been getting spin counts for songs I've been following which are right below the top 50 Edit: Okay, I made this post and a few hours later when today's update rolled around this method doesn't seem to be working for me at all, the hell is going on?
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Aug 25, 2014 1:36:41 GMT -5
Note that this started on alt. It received a lot of support from Alt 98.7 (their local station in LA) prior to going for pop and Hot AC adds.
So it really speaks volumes about alternative that a song might have a better chance of getting spins *AFTER* it establishes itself as a pop song.
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Post by American Idiot on Aug 25, 2014 14:54:25 GMT -5
Even though it's not rock-related, I still don't mind this song as I don't mind any of Lorde's music either. Speaking of Lorde, even she looked shocked to win the "Best Rock Artist" award at the VMAs against Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, and Imagine Dragons.
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Aug 25, 2014 15:22:09 GMT -5
Even though it's not rock-related, I still don't mind this song as I don't mind any of Lorde's music either. Speaking of Lorde, even she looked shocked to win the "Best Rock Artist" award at the VMAs against Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, and Imagine Dragons. And that is why MTV is a joke. Give me a break.
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Devin
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Post by Devin on Aug 25, 2014 15:25:38 GMT -5
Even though it's not rock-related, I still don't mind this song as I don't mind any of Lorde's music either. Speaking of Lorde, even she looked shocked to win the "Best Rock Artist" award at the VMAs against Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, Black Keys, and Imagine Dragons. And that is why MTV is a joke. Give me a break. Yea, I know the year The Black Keys were awarded for Best Rock Video ("Tighten Up"), the physical award was engraved "The Black Eyes Peas - "Tighten Up"."
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Aug 25, 2014 15:32:33 GMT -5
I can't believe it's the same tv station that used to play Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Tool, all of the good bands. But to even nominate Lorde for Rock is ridiculous. I get the crossover airplay on Alternative, that's fine. But c'mon, she is a Pop artist first and foremost, and shouldn't be winning a rock award over Black Keys. Shit even Imagine Dragons are rock/pop, that would've been fine too.
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Post by American Idiot on Aug 25, 2014 16:44:19 GMT -5
I can't believe it's the same tv station that used to play Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Tool, all of the good bands. But to even nominate Lorde for Rock is ridiculous. I get the crossover airplay on Alternative, that's fine. But c'mon, she is a Pop artist first and foremost, and shouldn't be winning a rock award over Black Keys. s**t even Imagine Dragons are rock/pop, that would've been fine too. Things all went downhill when TRL debuted in the late-90s. Once the show got more popular, the channel played videos less and less and became less about music. On a side note: Hey! Another South Floridian!
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Aug 25, 2014 17:28:37 GMT -5
I can't believe it's the same tv station that used to play Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Tool, all of the good bands. But to even nominate Lorde for Rock is ridiculous. I get the crossover airplay on Alternative, that's fine. But c'mon, she is a Pop artist first and foremost, and shouldn't be winning a rock award over Black Keys. s**t even Imagine Dragons are rock/pop, that would've been fine too. Things all went downhill when TRL debuted in the late-90s. Once the show got more popular, the channel played videos less and less and became less about music. On a side note: Hey! Another South Floridian! Haha yup, I'm a south Floridian, but not born and raised. But most people aren't down here anyways.
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Post by American Idiot on Aug 25, 2014 18:35:02 GMT -5
Things all went downhill when TRL debuted in the late-90s. Once the show got more popular, the channel played videos less and less and became less about music. On a side note: Hey! Another South Floridian! Haha yup, I'm a south Floridian, but not born and raised. But most people aren't down here anyways. Including me as well. I was born in New York, but moved down here when I was just five, so I might as well be a rare local.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Aug 26, 2014 18:53:03 GMT -5
As amazing as Lorde is, it's still weird that she's gathering up all the Rock awards, even though she's Alt.
Then again it's MTV and should never be taken seriously. Nor should any award show considering Modern Family won Best Comedy
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 27, 2014 2:20:10 GMT -5
Some of you guys are probly gonna have a cow, but its begining to sound like a broken record each time someone says that this or that band don't belong on the Alternative Rock charts. The fact is, 91x; an alternative Rock station, here in San Diego, has been playing "Cool Kids" off and on. It's concidered Synth Pop. Synth Pop in the 80s was the New New Wave; which made up most the Alternative Radio Stations playlists like KROQ, 91x, ect... Most of the Pop charts were made up of New Wave genre, so the Pop charts started calling New Wave; "synth Pop" These were bands like The Cars, OMD, Duran Duran, Dead Or Alive(also fit nicely in the HI-NRG genre), Human League, ABC, etc...Again these were the bands being played on Alternative Radio Stations. Therefore the equation is very simple. New Wave= Synth Pop = Aletrnative= "Cool Kids". It's that simple. You want an even simpler explaination? Alternative Rock is an Alternative to Straight Out Rock music. Therefore , Alternative songs can contain elements from other music genres and still fall nicely into the Alternative Rock genre. Bastile, Lorde, Artic Monkeys, The Neighbourhood, and yes; Echosmith all have pop elements in some of thier songs, but are still all by defination Alternative Rock songs. It's no Surprise that "Cool Kids" is climbing the Alternative Rock charts.
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 27, 2014 3:00:49 GMT -5
Not that I'm denying that this is a poppy song, but imo the analogy regarding synthpop of '80s alternative and indie pop of today's alternative is pretty accurate, which is why I find claims that certain indie pop songs don't fit alternative to be rather baffling. Certain folks may (and will) disagree but in essence alternative has pretty much gone full circle back to its original roots, from the early days of the format's inception. The "Return of the New Wave", if you'd call it that. I'm quoting that from Chris Molanphy's excellent piece over at Pitchfork on the history of the alternative chart, I can't recommend it highly enough for a comprehensive read on the topic.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 27, 2014 4:03:37 GMT -5
A very good read. The analogys were excellent. The best part for me is that the top 40 is actually starting to sound good again. 1985 was the last year that I actually enjoyed every Top 40 song on the list. The magoraty was synth pop new wave.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Aug 27, 2014 14:18:08 GMT -5
I agree that Lorde, Echosmith, Phantogram, Bastille etc. are first and foremost ALTERNATIVE. It's just somewhat jarring to see them as ROCK and edging out ROCK bands. I know Alternative is branched off from Rock and feel like they should be seperated in award shows and such like they are with radio stations, idk.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Aug 27, 2014 21:57:53 GMT -5
Bastille and Echosmith are still rock (I can verify from listening to both albums), they're just not hard rock.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 27, 2014 22:16:42 GMT -5
Bastille and Echosmith are still rock (I can verify from listening to both albums), they're just not hard rock. IDK, it might be because I grew up on mid 2000s Alternative, but I just don't see that much "rock" in Bastille, or in "Cool Kids", any rock at all.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Aug 27, 2014 22:21:10 GMT -5
Bastille and Echosmith are still rock (I can verify from listening to both albums), they're just not hard rock. IDK, it might be because I grew up on mid 2000s Alternative, but I just don't see that much "rock" in Bastille, or in "Cool Kids", any rock at all. That's exactly it, it's the era you grew up in. I don't see how this song differentiates from 10,000 Maniacs or a Cranberries single (obviously the lighter sounding ones).
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Aug 27, 2014 22:22:27 GMT -5
I'm on the fence on how rock Bastille is. But this song to me is the reason they invented Hot AC.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 22:23:30 GMT -5
Rock or not, this song isn't all that good to begin with
(had to tone it down)
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 28, 2014 4:51:46 GMT -5
The thing is that alternative has never been purely a rock format, so it really doesn't make sense to say that only "rock" songs deserve to chart on alternative, that indie pop isn't alternative, and other statements of the like. Of course I can see where some of the confusion/frustration is coming from but as mentioned above I'd really just chalk most of that up to generational preference (in this case, mid-2000s alt. radio) coming into play. Rock or not, this song isn't all that good to begin with ^ But yeah, I can agree with this
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Post by Walking Contradiction on Aug 28, 2014 5:35:32 GMT -5
I agree with the general sentiments of the posters defending this song's placement on the chart, as I agree that Alternative shouldn't be a primarily hard rock-based format (which is not to say that ALL hard rock is unwelcome), and that the format is now closer to what it originally set out to be than it was for much of the 00's. That said, there ARE limits to how poppy the format should go, and while this isn't as much of a stretch as Magic! or Tove Lo, it's definitely on the borderline. I think it's mostly the lyrics that make this sound really cheesy to me.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 28, 2014 22:20:30 GMT -5
Yeah, this is obviously a pop song and the fact that it crossed over is baffling. To me, this song screams generic Hot AC and I'm not surprised it's doing well there. Echosmith are not "synth pop", after listening to some of their songs, so drindie's analogy is useless because I'd classify this as adult contemporary (which I recently learned is what AC stands for). I agree that Lorde, Echosmith, Phantogram, Bastille etc. are first and foremost ALTERNATIVE. It's just somewhat jarring to see them as ROCK and edging out ROCK bands. I know Alternative is branched off from Rock and feel like they should be seperated in award shows and such like they are with radio stations, idk. I disagree with this because to me, only Bastille out of those is first and foremost ALTERNATIVE. I don't get how you could classify Echosmith as first and foremost alternative when they blew up Hot AC and CHR before even barely denting the Alt chart. After all of Lorde's success in the pop world, she is no longer first and foremost ALTERNATIVE. Phantogram are first and foremost TRIP HOP (and boring trip hop too, they couldn't be Portishead or Massive Attack even if they tried). Yet to the general public, Rock and Alternative are the same even though they do have their differences, and this I can agree with on a level. Yet if anything, Lorde and Echosmith should be nominated in the Pop sections and not the Rock sections because it feels odd for them to crown Lorde best rock song when you have Linkin Park, Black Keys, etc. If she had won best pop song, that would have been well deserved because she doesn't sound out of place on Pop radio. That's why if an Alt song leans even somewhat poppy, it shouldn't be considered in the Rock category, it just feels like a massive outlier. If we're going to put Alternative artists in the Rock category, it should be bands like Black Keys, Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, hell even Imagine Dragons. In 2014, rock =/= alternative, and people need to realize that. Besides, we all know the only reason she started on Alt was because of her antipop attitude, but attitude =/= music genres. Some of you guys are probly gonna have a cow, but its begining to sound like a broken record each time someone says that this or that band don't belong on the Alternative Rock charts. The fact is, 91x; an alternative Rock station, here in San Diego, has been playing "Cool Kids" off and on. It's concidered Synth Pop. Synth Pop in the 80s was the New New Wave; which made up most the Alternative Radio Stations playlists like KROQ, 91x, ect... Most of the Pop charts were made up of New Wave genre, so the Pop charts started calling New Wave; "synth Pop" These were bands like The Cars, OMD, Duran Duran, Dead Or Alive(also fit nicely in the HI-NRG genre), Human League, ABC, etc...Again these were the bands being played on Alternative Radio Stations. Therefore the equation is very simple. New Wave= Synth Pop = Aletrnative= "Cool Kids". It's that simple. You want an even simpler explaination? Alternative Rock is an Alternative to Straight Out Rock music. Therefore , Alternative songs can contain elements from other music genres and still fall nicely into the Alternative Rock genre. Bastile, Lorde, Artic Monkeys, The Neighbourhood, and yes; Echosmith all have pop elements in some of thier songs, but are still all by defination Alternative Rock songs. It's no Surprise that "Cool Kids" is climbing the Alternative Rock charts. "Cool Kids" does not even remotely sound close to a New Wave song. Some New Wave artists were considered Alternative. Echosmith, however, is not synth pop. CHVRCHES is synth pop ( and they should be getting top 10s easily in this climate). Lights is synth pop. This is adult contemporary pop, which never had an audience on Alternative because once beloved staples Matchbox 20 and Goo Goo Dolls went Hot AC, they were abandoned by the format. The problem is you're looking for a sort of modern New Wave, which really doesn't exist. There isn't a wave when only a handful of bands draw from them as influences. You say Alternative rock is an alternative to straight out rock music - the problem is, that alternative still has to be some sort of rock music, just quirkier and different from the mainstream. "Cool Kids" is not some sort of rock music though. While I do agree that alternative rock should contain elements from other genres including reggae, ska, jazz fusion and progressive, the problem is those styles aren't popular now. The alternative to straight out rock still has to be rock, and that's what "Cool Kids" is not. It's a very big surprise to see it climbing the Alternative charts because it started out on Pop first. If you say that "alternative has to be an alternative to the mainstream", well guess what, "Cool Kids" already is mainstream. I've heard it on Pop radio multiple times. There's no reason songs should be crossing over from Pop when they have no business doing so ("Tennis Court", "Best Day of My Life", "Rude", etc.) They're already spun to death ten thousand times on Pop radio, yet a format that should be alternative to the mainstream is still playing them? How that that make any sense? Not that I'm denying that this is a poppy song, but imo the analogy regarding synthpop of '80s alternative and indie pop of today's alternative is pretty accurate, which is why I find claims that certain indie pop songs don't fit alternative to be rather baffling. Certain folks may (and will) disagree but in essence alternative has pretty much gone full circle back to its original roots, from the early days of the format's inception. The "Return of the New Wave", if you'd call it that. I'm quoting that from Chris Molanphy's excellent piece over at Pitchfork on the history of the alternative chart, I can't recommend it highly enough for a comprehensive read on the topic. First and foremost, thank God I am not the only one who read that. I already spread the word a few months ago (check the General Discussion thread), but no one else read it. Anyways, I'd say as mediocre as 80s alternative was in my opinion, there was still an "edge" to it. One of my all time favorite songs, "Midlife Crisis" hit #1, Pixies were a chart mainstay, The Replacements dominated, Swans charted, Depeche Mode and The Cure were legends, and there's nothing of that sort today. The thing is, the format's roots were not all that great IMO, and it would take grunge to shake things up a bit. IDK, it might be because I grew up on mid 2000s Alternative, but I just don't see that much "rock" in Bastille, or in "Cool Kids", any rock at all. That's exactly it, it's the era you grew up in. I don't see how this song differentiates from 10,000 Maniacs or a Cranberries single (obviously the lighter sounding ones). This will be the death of me, I know it. As shocked as I am to say it, I grew up during the indie pop phase. But if I'm growing up in this lighter era, then how come I'm so opposed to it? When I reflect on my music taste as an adult, I'll have to say, oh, I was a teenager when I hated all the music on Alternative radio. I mean, I'm only 14 now, so I have no clue what will happen in the future, yet I don't identify with this music at all. Maybe it's just purely coincidental that I normally relate to depressing, angsty, emotional songs when the chart contains none of it right now. The thing is, when I was a kid I loved alternative music. User timmierz has been the biggest influence on my music taste in my whole entire life - had it not been for him, I probably would be a pop conformist, swallowing every shallow pill they sell to sheeps in the media. But TimMierz made quizzes on the website Sporcle which I was a frequent visitor of, and they were clips of songs that hit the Top 5 of the Alternative chart every year. I loved 95% of the songs on those quizzes, and I discovered so much new music through them, even if the songs existed a decade before I first knew they existed. This was in 2011, when I was 11 years old. I downloaded every song that hit Top 5 before nasty viruses from porn sites made me wipe out my hard drive. Before that though, I became a fan of bands like Green Day, The Offspring, Linkin Park, Muse, etc. all thanks to him. If it weren't for his quizzes, I never would have discovered all the gems of Alternative music. So I guess that was before the indie pop phase started, which means I really don't have a specific phase I grew up with. Since I can't identify with the phase I'm currently growing up in, I guess I identify myself with the 1991-2012 phase of Alternative music. But "Cool Kids" does not sound like a Cranberries song. "Zombie" and "Salvation" are out of the question, which leaves us stuff like "Dreams" and "Ode to My Family", both of which I love, and deserved to chart on Alternative. "Cool Kids" is definitely softer than those, but it's not that far of a stretch. So, I guess you COULD say that since "Dreams" = Alternative, "Cool Kids" (as much as I hate to say it) = Alternative, but the problem is "Cool Kids" was a Pop hit first. And for that, the equation is shattered. Bastille are without a doubt, an alternative band. Not so much "rock", but I don't know what to classify them. Indie rock is like The National and Arcade Fire, so it's not that. Indie pop is like Imagine Dragons and Fun., so not that. They're in the middle of the two extremes.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Aug 28, 2014 23:32:06 GMT -5
I disagree with Lorde being Pop, just cause she crossed over doesn't make her Pop. If that were true then Echosmith are Alt for crossing over. Also Phantogram are SO not boring omfg I die a little inside when people hate on them for being edgy.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 29, 2014 2:03:53 GMT -5
I agree with the general sentiments of the posters defending this song's placement on the chart, as I agree that Alternative shouldn't be a primarily hard rock-based format (which is not to say that ALL hard rock is unwelcome), and that the format is now closer to what it originally set out to be than it was for much of the 00's. I get that the early 00s were rather dominated by more hard rock-leaning music, but how exactly is it that the mid 00s deviate from "what Alternative originally set out to be"? I would say that it was just as diverse as what you guys call today's climate to be. All we want is a balance of the heavier and lighter stuff. Kinda like the 90s (and the mid 00s IMO). Also, Doc Indie Party Rock's point that "Alternative is an alternative to straight out rock music" is false. Alternative is an alternative to mainstream pop, not rock.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 29, 2014 5:01:14 GMT -5
shadowscorp No I actually believe you are wrong. Alternative Rock is an alternative to Straight out rock music. That's why you never hear Def Leppard, Ratt, Ozzy, Boston, Warrant, Skid Row etc... on Alternative radio stations. Furthermore; Alt radio was never an alternative to mainstream pop because it has always played songs that also do well on Mainstream Pop charts. From early 80s thru 2014. Jack Bauer, the vampire Actually it did start out on Alternative radio before crossing to Pop. It just took off on Pop radio faster. Like I mentioned. 91x; an well known Alternative Rock station, was playing "Cool Kids" , since songs, like "i Wanna Get Better" by the Bleachers were being added. Don't believe me? take a look at this link from 91x new music playlist. www.91x.com/music-type/new-music/page/11/ (if you can't see it, just open 91x webpage, click on new music and scroll back. It's on page 11.) See the songs surrounding it? That's how far back "Cool Kids" has been on Alt radio . Way before Pop stations. Like I said; it just took off faster on Pop charts, because ,I'm happy to see, that the Pop charts are actually starting to pick up better music for thier formatt. Many of those better songs are from the Alternative charts. So all this Crossing over talk is nonsense. Pop listeners are probly just noticing that Alt, Indie, Hipster, Synth Pop, whatever you wanna call it; is the catchy melodic music that pop charts should consist of. Anyway, I've heard many songs from Echosmith , like "Come Together" and "Talking Dreams" among others..and that's why I make the comparisons I make. Synth Pop is a sub- genre born in the 80s were everything from New Wave to New Romantic would fall in nicely. Echosmith could also fall into the "new new Wave of indie Pop. If bands like Katrina and The Waves and Icicle Works were concidered New Wave than Echosmith; who have a smiliar sound can also be called New Wave. Alternative Indie Rock/Pop is the New Wave of Alternative music.
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