kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Mar 3, 2015 14:50:28 GMT -5
And they (well, Dustin, as Craig never had a hit on the level of Why Ya Wanna or Cowboys & Angels) were just as counter to the spirit of the program... It's supposed to be people on the verge of serious radio airplay...Giving an on the verge boost to a name that already received such airplay is, to me, far lamer than pushing an artist with a sound you don't particularly like. I'm not saying I love the choice, but I find it somewhat ironic that there are people complaining about iHeart "playing it safe" but then asking the company to give the OTV boost to an artist that is already established. The goal of the program SHOULD be to find people whom have never received a look from radio. Jana Kramer is not an established artist at country radio. She's only had one big hit, and then it was followed up with several middling chart performances. There is no reason why she'd be any less deserving to be chosen for OTV than someone who hasn't had any single releases at all. If anything it would make more sense to pick someone like her or Dustin Lynch because it's proven that they have an audience and the single will actually sell and help the artist, and the investment will actually be worth it. Not sure why you bolded what you did. My point was that choosing an established artist = safer, and then you wrote a post explaining why choosing an established artist is safer. But to address your broader point. If you're judging the program by the success of the SONG, then, yes, you're right. A song released by a name with some proven success is a safer bet to command airplay + sales support. It will hit harder during its run. However, that seems like a really short-sighted, lame use of the program. A more valuable "On the Verge" program focuses on talent discovery. Finding a fresh artist (that is starting to command some bubble buzz) that can grow into a big star. In essence, Sam Hunt = what this program is all about. Choosing an artist with a major country radio hit is safer and more pragmatic if you care about the short-term success, but it's actually riskier and less logical from a long-term standpoint. These individuals have had major runs at country radio before, and they didn't emerge as huge, automatic stars in the aftermath. We're seeing that with Dustin Lynch. If you wanted to turn an OTV song into a hit, he was the perfect guy - and he had the perfect song. But just as it did following his last major hit, the format cooled on him as soon as the run was over. He's not a substantially bigger star. If Jana couldn't leverage the momentum from "Why Ya Wanna" to score a massive follow-up hit, what makes you think the follow-up to her OTV would be a huge hit? It's a risk-reward game. And I think OTV should be playing high risk, high reward. It should be focusing on emerging artists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 14:58:36 GMT -5
I was expecting either this or "Break Up with Him" to be chosen, although I would have definitely thought Jana Kramer would have been the #1 most likely selection if her song had received an adds date and been officially shipped to radio. Maybe Warner wanted to avoid Jana being selected because they feel Michael Ray needs this more desperately?
I could see this having a run similar to "Take It on Back" and stalling in the teens rather than having a smooth run to #1 like "Leave the Night On," "Where It's At," and "Smoke."
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Mar 4, 2015 12:12:38 GMT -5
Craig Campbell, Dustin Lynch and, as .indulgecountry says, Jana Kramer were not 'established' radio stars. Dan+Shay would still qualify for this as could the lower tier of artists who have struggled to rise up the charts on a consistent basis and are technically "on the verge." Hell, Kacey Musgraves would still be an 'on the verge' artists. So would Kristian Bush. A Thousand Horses' "Smoke" has done well and sold well because of this program and this song's sales are trending well too. Will it hit Gold? That remains to be seen but it should end up somewhere in 300k+ sales mark, just based on the song's youthful sound. Radio will always pick "safe" over "risky." That's just the nature of their beast and why songs stall and others rise, no matter the label their on or the buzz the artist is getting.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Mar 4, 2015 12:34:32 GMT -5
Radio will always pick "safe" over "risky." That's just the nature of their beast and why songs stall and others rise, no matter the label their on or the buzz the artist is getting.
Why even have the program then?
In the end, all this really is, is just radio executives picking one new artist over all the others simply because it's safe and caters to radio's wheelhouse. I still find no need for this program. Radio is unfair anyway and this program just takes it to a whole new level. I know I've had this discussion and argument for lord knows how many times but I hear Tom Poleman say that the selections derive from what their programmers say will generate the most buzz and what listeners will react to; but this selection does not qualify IMO. Will people like "Kiss You In The Morning"?- sure they will, just like 95% of the songs out there, but all this is, is a safe (like you said) and unrisky pick with not much passion put into it. Everyone is different and who's to say that different programmers have vastly different opinions about who they want (vote for). It's just so random when selections like this get made, which is why I'm dying to know the voting percentage for the final nominees and who those final nominees were. The only good thing about OTV is the opportunity to get some boom or bust material heard. They have swung and missed a couple times already with "God Made Girls" stalling in the teens despite selling well and "Take It On Back" selling horribly and having a whale of a time juts cracking the top 10. There's always new artists coming into the genre on a monthly basis and radio will find a few to get debut hits out of without the aggravation of OTV, IMO.
Perhaps it's just the nature of radio these days (which of course it is), to just go with the mundane so that they won't be bothered with overly positive and/or negative reaction flooding his/her inbox so they can go about their daily mundane playlists.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Mar 4, 2015 12:40:43 GMT -5
You're definitely not wrong about it. It still is "supported" by labels even if iHeartRadio says it isn't. This is a major reason why Bigger Picture closed when it did (but Craig and his team got the song to #7 independently afterwards). Honestly, Cam's "My Mistake" is "safe" but feels buzzworthy to me. It could've really used the bump like RaeLynn got. I still have hopes it'll do well but I don't know how well because of the adverse reaction to female artists. Old Dominion and Logan Mize will have hits w/o this program.
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kw9461
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Post by kw9461 on Mar 4, 2015 17:02:20 GMT -5
Honestly, Cam's "My Mistake" is "safe" but feels buzzworthy to me. It could've really used the bump like RaeLynn got. I still have hopes it'll do well but I don't know how well because of the adverse reaction to female artists. Old Dominion and Logan Mize will have hits w/o this program. I agree wholeheartedly about Cam, she seemed the perfect person to take advantage of this program, and it's a real shame she wasn't chosen. Maybe they were just afraid to chose another female so close after the relative lack of success that Raelynn had. They thought she would be a safe choice, but I guess her voice (or complete and utter lack thereof) proved to be too much to overcome. I really don't think Cam would've suffered the same fate, although I knew she was probably a longshot for the program. Logan Mize seemed the no-brainer choice to me - lots of buzz surrounding him and his song certainly fits into radio's box. At least his song is interesting lyrically and instrumentally. Michael Ray's song sounds like a Jason Aldean b-side, although he does seem to have a pretty decent voice. And it seems counter-intuitive to shove this down everyone's throat and manufacture a hit, while still claiming you want to play less bro-country.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Mar 4, 2015 17:22:37 GMT -5
I just can't get behind any artist whose label PR describes him as "hunky and funky." Maybe that's harsh, but give me a break.
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blueguitar
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Post by blueguitar on Mar 4, 2015 17:35:32 GMT -5
Here's an excerpt from The Washington Post article back in August when iHeartMedia's radio president for national programming Tom Poleman explained how "On The Verge" works. (Here)
Let's say that the final nominees came down to, in no order:
Logan Mize - "Can't Get Away From A Good Time" Ashley Monroe - "On To Something Good" Brothers Osborne - "Stay A Little Longer" Cam - "My Mistake" John King - "On Your Lips" Casey James - "Fall Apart" Drake White - "It Feels Good" Old Dominion - "Break Up With Him" Michael Ray - "Kiss You In The Morning"
I left Jana's out since she hasn't gotten an add date yet or been officially sent to radio.
If these selections are made by what programmers are "passionate about", then this program will miss more than it hits. Now obviously this selection is clearly playing it safe with Michael's song fitting right into country radio's wheelhouse for lyrical content and production, but the only silver lining in this program (I still dislike the premise behind it) is that it can break newer artists with impactful songs that can drive buzz and sales, and I'm sorry but IMO, "Kiss You In The Morning" isn't it.
Well how depressing. I was hoping for Casey James, but I'm sure he was out of the running once they moved his add date past the OTV date of 3/9. Also, Ashley Monroe should have been up there ahead of Michael Ray. It really seems like this is her time and her song is the most radio friendly once she has released. Ugh!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 18:18:35 GMT -5
Well how depressing. I was hoping for Casey James, but I'm sure he was out of the running once they moved his add date past the OTV date of 3/9. Also, Ashley Monroe should have been up there ahead of Michael Ray. It really seems like this is her time and her song is the most radio friendly once she has released. Ugh! I won't try to get your hopes up or anything, but there's always the chance that Casey could be selected after Michael. With Casey's song going for adds on 03/30 (and with him having gone on a big radio tour), I would certainly think he'll be in the running (among songs/artists that PD's select from). As far as I understand it, each OTV "promotion" runs for about 6 weeks, and there's about a 6-8 week gap between selections, which means that the next OTV pick will probably come in late April or early May. Casey's song will have likely been on the chart for a few weeks by then, but Craig Campbell was on the chart for a few weeks before getting the boost, and even Michael Ray here has been on the chart for a few weeks before OTV airplay has even kicked in for him yet. I also think Sam Hunt's song was on the chart for 2-3 weeks before it started receiving the OTV benefit. I haven't heard Michael's song on the radio yet, but I'm not really looking forward to it. It's so painfully boring to me. They were already talking about it during one of the commercial breaks on KNIX this afternoon. Apparently Michael is coming to town soon to play a free show (I thought they said it was at Dierks' Whiskey Row but not sure about that) soon and the deejay made sure to say "you don't want to miss Michael Ray in concert. He's our next On The Verge artist, and now's your chance to see him before he makes it big". I haven't looked to see if KNIX has started playing this song yet but they are already talking about Michael being the next OTV artist.
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blueguitar
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Post by blueguitar on Mar 4, 2015 19:20:25 GMT -5
Well how depressing. I was hoping for Casey James, but I'm sure he was out of the running once they moved his add date past the OTV date of 3/9. Also, Ashley Monroe should have been up there ahead of Michael Ray. It really seems like this is her time and her song is the most radio friendly once she has released. Ugh! I won't try to get your hopes up or anything, but there's always the chance that Casey could be selected after Michael. With Casey's song going for adds on 03/30 (and with him having gone on a big radio tour), I would certainly think he'll be in the running (among songs/artists that PD's select from). As far as I understand it, each OTV "promotion" runs for about 6 weeks, and there's about a 6-8 week gap between selections, which means that the next OTV pick will probably come in late April or early May. Casey's song will have likely been on the chart for a few weeks by then, but Craig Campbell was on the chart for a few weeks before getting the boost, and even Michael Ray here has been on the chart for a few weeks before OTV airplay has even kicked in for him yet. I also think Sam Hunt's song was on the chart for 2-3 weeks before it started receiving the OTV benefit. I haven't heard Michael's song on the radio yet, but I'm not really looking forward to it. It's so painfully boring to me. They were already talking about it during one of the commercial breaks on KNIX this afternoon. Apparently Michael is coming to town soon to play a free show (I thought they said it was at Dierks' Whiskey Row but not sure about that) soon and the deejay made sure to say "you don't want to miss Michael Ray in concert. He's our next On The Verge artist, and now's your chance to see him before he makes it big". I haven't looked to see if KNIX has started playing this song yet but they are already talking about Michael being the next OTV artist. This crossed my mind as well. He's been hitting iHeart Stations pretty hard (as recently as today). And they had an exclusive on his vid last week. May would be fantastic! Sorry to have hijacked this thread! ;) I'll say it one more time: If Ashley Monroe's team was vying for this, she got the shaft!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 19:45:03 GMT -5
I'll say it one more time: If Ashley Monroe's team was vying for this, she got the shaft! See that's just the thing though--I'm not really sure if labels vie for this. Buying airplay is of course illegal, and I would think that any label making a deal with radio to boost one of their artists' songs would fall under the illegal category as well. As sabre14 pointed out upthread, what we've been told publicly about On The Verge is that iHeartMedia program directors look at a bunch of songs and they narrow it down to a smaller handful, and then the PD's vote on which ones they think their listeners will like the most. So it's basically just PD's going by their gut feeling and assuming they know what their listeners want to hear (but hey, you know what they say about people who assume! ) It still intrigues me, though, that whenever the OTV selection plays on the radio, I always hear a little pre-recorded bit at the end saying "that was so-and-so, iHeartMedia's On The Verge artist, sponsored by [insert label name here]". For example, during the 6-ish weeks when "Leave The Night On" was the OTV selection, at the conclusion of the song, it always said "sponsored by MCA Nashville", and for Chase Bryant it said "sponsored by Red Bow Records".
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Mar 4, 2015 19:47:10 GMT -5
Well how depressing. I was hoping for Casey James, but I'm sure he was out of the running once they moved his add date past the OTV date of 3/9. Also, Ashley Monroe should have been up there ahead of Michael Ray. It really seems like this is her time and her song is the most radio friendly once she has released. Ugh! I won't try to get your hopes up or anything, but there's always the chance that Casey could be selected after Michael. With Casey's song going for adds on 03/30 (and with him having gone on a big radio tour), I would certainly think he'll be in the running (among songs/artists that PD's select from). As far as I understand it, each OTV "promotion" runs for about 6 weeks, and there's about a 6-8 week gap between selections, which means that the next OTV pick will probably come in late April or early May. Casey's song will have likely been on the chart for a few weeks by then, but Craig Campbell was on the chart for a few weeks before getting the boost, and even Michael Ray here has been on the chart for a few weeks before OTV airplay has even kicked in for him yet. I also think Sam Hunt's song was on the chart for 2-3 weeks before it started receiving the OTV benefit. I haven't heard Michael's song on the radio yet, but I'm not really looking forward to it. It's so painfully boring to me. They were already talking about it during one of the commercial breaks on KNIX this afternoon. Apparently Michael is coming to town soon to play a free show (I thought they said it was at Dierks' Whiskey Row but not sure about that) soon and the deejay made sure to say "you don't want to miss Michael Ray in concert. He's our next On The Verge artist, and now's your chance to see him before he makes it big". I haven't looked to see if KNIX has started playing this song yet but they are already talking about Michael being the next OTV artist. Casey's definitely is in the running for April but it does seem that most selections are now gearing towards singles that are just being released that week or have only been at radio for 2-3 weeks so Casey's song might barely fall into that realm, though again, that's just what it looks like to me. The only two songs that don't fall into that category are Craig Campbell and RaeLynn's - so again, anything's possible and I wouldn't put it pass iHeartMedia (I still want to call them Clear Channel because frankly it sounds much better). I love the deejay saying "he's your chance to see him before he makes it big", like "Kiss You In The Morning" is now guaranteed to go top 20...oh yeah, that because it is. Edit: While they did say in that Washington Post article that they make the decisions on their own, I still find it very difficult to believe some form of "vying" doesn't happen under any circumstance, which would make these selections make more sense, in my eyes anyway, rather than just predicting what will make listeners react the most and create the most buzz. All I can say is there's no way Michael's song was chief among the options out there for that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 22:19:57 GMT -5
I never read too much into the "sponsored by" bit. To me, this just means that is the label distributing the song and servicing it to radio. I can see some sort of promotion by the labels to try to get their artists voted for OTV, such as calling the radio stations and encouraging them to vote a certain way as well as the standard radio tour, but I don't think it's anything as direct and sleazy as payola (i.e. buying votes).
Now the only one of the "Big Five" country labels never to have had an OTV artist is Sony, which would change if "Fall Apart" were the next song to receive the treatment, but two months is a lot of time for new material to be released to I can't make any bets about that yet.
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blueguitar
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Post by blueguitar on Mar 5, 2015 10:36:53 GMT -5
Re: The Washington Post article that they make their decisions based on making decisions on their own and predicting what listeners want, etc.......
If one of the artists on the list has just been in their studio and made an impression with their music, it would sway their votes. (crosses fingers) ;)
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Mar 5, 2015 12:23:56 GMT -5
Labels absolutely 'suggest' their artists and when selected, they offer up the 'free concerts' to stations. It's not Payola or anything illegal like that but labels certainly are a part of the whole process, even if they don't actually select the "winning" song in the program.
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cws3030
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Post by cws3030 on Mar 8, 2015 13:29:02 GMT -5
Honestly, Cam's "My Mistake" is "safe" but feels buzzworthy to me. It could've really used the bump like RaeLynn got. I still have hopes it'll do well but I don't know how well because of the adverse reaction to female artists. Old Dominion and Logan Mize will have hits w/o this program. I agree wholeheartedly about Cam, she seemed the perfect person to take advantage of this program, and it's a real shame she wasn't chosen. Maybe they were just afraid to chose another female so close after the relative lack of success that Raelynn had. They thought she would be a safe choice, but I guess her voice (or complete and utter lack thereof) proved to be too much to overcome. I really don't think Cam would've suffered the same fate, although I knew she was probably a longshot for the program. Logan Mize seemed the no-brainer choice to me - lots of buzz surrounding him and his song certainly fits into radio's box. At least his song is interesting lyrically and instrumentally. Michael Ray's song sounds like a Jason Aldean b-side, although he does seem to have a pretty decent voice. And it seems counter-intuitive to shove this down everyone's throat and manufacture a hit, while still claiming you want to play less bro-country. I still think Cam has a chance to get OTV the next time around. When raylnn got it she was a few weeks in. Michael Ray gets it on his 3rd week. Cam would be on week 4-5 when the next OTV selectuon will come in.
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rbundy1987
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Post by rbundy1987 on Mar 10, 2015 0:52:51 GMT -5
Michael Ray Facebook 11 hrs · Edited · On the verge is an incredible opportunity that iHeart gives new artist and I'm so honored to have been named iHearts new on the Verge artist Thank you to everyone at iHeart for Choosing me and to all the fans making this possible! God Bless MR
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 1:44:29 GMT -5
Riiiggghhht, because the fans *totally* made this possible...
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Mar 10, 2015 13:07:00 GMT -5
Someone up above suggested Ashley Monroe as a future recipient of OTV, and my reaction to that was "Are you kidding? She's can't really be eligible because she's a real singer -- it would be like offering this to Alison Krauss." Maybe I'm wrong, and I know this program is well-intentioned, but the whole program just lacks a sense of conviction. Here we have a group of radio stations that can't seem to find their way to playing music sung by an actual female-type woman lady based on the quality of the song and the voice, but they're conducting meaningless polls among themselves to select a new path to dullsville every couple of months, as if there isn't enough of that already.
On the other hand, there is something appealing about a hunky singer who's also funky, unless it's the other way around.
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Uncle Lumpy
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Post by Uncle Lumpy on Mar 11, 2015 11:55:42 GMT -5
Well , ain't he a cutie. And that concludes anything remotely positive I can say about this song , the "On The Verge" program , this guys voice , or Bro-"country" in general. What ever happened to singers having a recognizable sound to their voices to set them apart? I couldn't recognize this guys voice again if my life depended on it. I never thought Chesney or Aldean were great singers , but at least they had a vocal style. (Good lord , did I just pine for Aldean & Chesney league singers?) Never mind this is yet another bro song with absolutely nothing new to say. Nashville can keep putting a prettier , younger face on the same product , but its still the same recycled garbage they have been offering up for at least two or three years straight now. As far as On The Verge , I Heart Media can make all the claims they want about how they vet the songs, I'll never be convinced there isn't some shady under the table Payola crap going on.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Mar 15, 2015 10:38:29 GMT -5
With Thomas Rhett going recurrent later tonight on MB, "Kiss You In The Morning" leaps seven spots to #35 this week with an increase of 758 spins and 5.326 million in audience, after the first full week of the OTV program.
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Post by drummerman2009 on Mar 15, 2015 12:59:32 GMT -5
And touring with Sam Hunt and Cole Swindell helps him along as well not just the IHeartRadio/On The Verge/Instant Career tag on.
This song sounds like anything that hasn't been done before (Cole, Sam, Thomas Rhett, etc.)
Whatever happened to paying your dues? George Strait, Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney all played in clubs and it took them years to have hits and with Tim and Kenny they didn't even have a Top 40 hit starting out.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Mar 15, 2015 13:06:39 GMT -5
And touring with Sam Hunt and Cole Swindell helps him along as well not just the IHeartRadio/On The Verge/Instant Career tag on. This song sounds like anything that hasn't been done before (Cole, Sam, Thomas Rhett, etc.) Whatever happened to paying your dues? George Strait, Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney all played in clubs and it took them years to have hits and with Tim and Kenny they didn't even have a Top 40 hit starting out. Nah, the OTV program is about 90% responsible for this spike in numbers. Also, Michael did pay some dues as he was a performer in Florida before moving to Nashville and securing a record deal. But I agree about this program being basically a lottery ticket for a single from a new artist.
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hosssulpizio
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Post by hosssulpizio on Mar 15, 2015 14:16:32 GMT -5
I hope Michael Ray is considering doing Traditional Country also. I remember seeing him on The Next: Fame is At Your Doorstep. Glad he won the first and only season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 12:00:32 GMT -5
Sales are still lagging pretty far behind airplay here, although this song did move up from #87 on the iTunes country chart last week to #37 right now. Still, I'm not sure if I see this one being a huge hit. I can see it maybe doing as well as Chase Bryant's "Take It On Back" did, but that's about it. This is just such a boring song, and I think it was a horrible pick for OTV.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Apr 25, 2015 20:03:54 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if this peaked around #15 or so. It really isn't doing all that well, considering the exposure that it received as an OTV single. It'll still likely keep going for a few more weeks, but I think it's going to have a lot of trouble even getting close to the top 10.
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on May 2, 2015 1:07:11 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to this yet.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on May 2, 2015 1:53:26 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to this yet. Such thoughtful insight. Maybe you could give it a listen and post your thoughts about that instead?
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on May 2, 2015 2:04:57 GMT -5
I still haven't listened to this yet. Such thoughtful insight. Maybe you could give it a listen and post your thoughts about that instead? (checks whether this is on Spotify) Now that I listened to it, I'm in agreement with most of the board that this is a wrong choice for OTV, though this was better than I expected though (because it's catchy). I'll take it or leave it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 10:23:45 GMT -5
What's really odd (and it might just be where I am) is that I've only heard this song TWICE total. And I often switch between a large market station, a medium market station and a very small market. Sometimes I tune into the Highway and if I'm not behind a big hill I can get Nash New York. Out of all those stations, to only hear a top 30 song twice is kind of odd to me considering how often I hear the rest of them. Could be coincidence I suppose. When I did hear it, I didn't really care much for it. Shallow lyrica and shallow subject.
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