maine
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Post by maine on Aug 23, 2015 23:05:11 GMT -5
I think releasing "I Really Like You" as the first single was a mistake. It was another novelty song like "Call Me Maybe" was and probably made listeners think that's all she can do. Releasing a more mature song like this first would have been the smart move, and probably could have helped her in the long run, even if this weren't to be a big smash hit. I haven't listened to the album yet so I don't know what else could be lead single worthy since I don't think this screams lead single to me (even though this is fantastic).
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 23, 2015 23:12:38 GMT -5
It's funny because that's the debate we're having in the album thread right now. I'll never understand how "Run Away With Me" doesn't sound like a radio ready hit song. I can't even tell you exactly why it doesn't to me, just mainly that it doesn't sound at all like anything CHR has been spinning this year. The whole album definitely continues that retro 80's vibe of Kiss, and unfortunately that kind of sound just isn't happening right now. Also the hooks on most of these songs aren't big and in your face (except maybe IRLY), which can always be a problem on CHR. Not that they aren't catchy, just that it's more subtle and nuanced. And that can definitely be a bad thing for un-established artists on the format. I think that's what the majority of people are trying to say including me. The songs are great, but the hooks aren't strong enough. And I don't know how to explain that, it just is. You take any single off Teenage Dream or 1989, and every single, including The One That Got Away, has a stronger hook than anything off Emotion. Maybe the right word is "presence". I dunno. IRLY was the strongest tho, that's for sure.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 23, 2015 23:20:36 GMT -5
And I just want to clarify that "stronger hook" DOESNT mean better song. It just means it's a better song for radio. RAWM is definitely better than TOTGA and most definitely Bad Blood without a doubt, but those two have stronger hooks.
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George
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Post by George on Aug 24, 2015 0:00:37 GMT -5
I just wish the video for IRLY would've been as simplistic as let's say Teenage Dream and not so cringeworthy desperate. That really killed things. I think the idea behind it was good (it especially got a lot of the older generation reason to check it out due to Tom Hanks), but it just wasn't executed as well. I do prefer the lyric video more though:
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Aug 24, 2015 0:01:11 GMT -5
Do you feel that way about "Your Type"? "Gimmie Love"? Are the hooks in those songs not enough for pop radio?
I am convinced that what people *REALLY* mean is that these songs aren't hooky enough for CARLY RAE JEPSEN to succeed on pop radio.
To me, Run Away With Me, Your Type, and Gimmie Love have hooks as good as the best songs on pop radio. I mean, maybe not since that's crazy broad, but there's no way that these songs don't have hooks that are waaay stronger than LOTS of well-performing (re: moderately decent placing) songs. "Gimmie Love" has like five freaking hooks, an AMAZING singalong bridge, and a really unique sound that still sounds contemporary.
So if fantastic songs with strong hooks aren't enough for pop radio -- what is going on? It's terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 0:14:46 GMT -5
I said this in the album thread, buried under a whole bunch of other words, but the blaring bagppipes as the intro could possibly be offputting (kinda like how many thought the flute in Britney's Criminal is what did that song in). I think the rest of RAWM more than holds its own though. The pipe riff is underneath the hook throughout the song, but it's not too prominent (or is it? and what instrument could she have used in its place, b/c if you take that riff out the song is hollow). The album is very 80s...but then so were Uptown Funk and Locked Out of Heaven, and we see how that worked out. So I just don't know; none of us do. I'm trying very hard to not nitpick RAWM for things that are 'wrong' with it because that feels very reactive, like "oh, now that she's flopping let me find some flaw to explain it instead of accepting the fact that a good song is being buried." And hell, I haven't even given it a chance to flop yet. Who knows what the future holds for this song. But admittedly the future doesn't look so hot for Carly right now.
I think she made some quirky choices, like the use of a bagpipe as musical riff for example, but she employed the quirks along with all the standard pop staples that we expect (solid hooks, good melodies, simple lyrics but without being drivel) - and she made that combination work. It's not like she's trying to flip the script completely, but there are some flashes of pop innovation here and it's sad to see that not being rewarded.
The 'better hook' thing is hard to gauge but I always get the feeling that by better hook people really mean 'borderline elementary schoolyard chants.' Emphasis on borderline because when you dip into the territory IRLY did, where you're really beating people over the head with the repetitiveness, then it's a bit much and almost comes off as you thinking your listener is too stupid to process anything more complex. But that seems to be where things are now, people want to feel like they're chanting along with something...but man, that's why I thought RAWM really had it nailed. The "run away! with! me!" part and the the "ohhh, oh-ohhhh" harmonizing on top of the bagpipes have the chant-like feel that makes it so spot on.
Her videos have sucked this era. There's no denying that, sadly, and it's really hindering her ability to capture more attention. Sevyn Streeter did the 'this is my life' theme better for her latest song, and that was an effing lyric video. More and more CMM (and the Curiosity vid that never got to see the light of day :'( ) seem to be a lucky fluke when it comes to her visuals. Who did the treatment on that? she needs to go find that guy again.
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popbox
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Post by popbox on Aug 24, 2015 0:21:29 GMT -5
I can't even tell you exactly why it doesn't to me, just mainly that it doesn't sound at all like anything CHR has been spinning this year. The whole album definitely continues that retro 80's vibe of Kiss, and unfortunately that kind of sound just isn't happening right now. Also the hooks on most of these songs aren't big and in your face (except maybe IRLY), which can always be a problem on CHR. Not that they aren't catchy, just that it's more subtle and nuanced. And that can definitely be a bad thing for un-established artists on the format. I think that's what the majority of people are trying to say including me. The songs are great, but the hooks aren't strong enough. And I don't know how to explain that, it just is. You take any single off Teenage Dream or 1989, and every single, including The One That Got Away, has a stronger hook than anything off Emotion. Maybe the right word is "presence". I dunno. IRLY was the strongest tho, that's for sure. Yeah, it's not a hooky pop album. That says nothing about its quality, just about its airplay viability.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Aug 24, 2015 0:24:46 GMT -5
Excellent post and I appreciate that you actually responded to what I was asking.
I think you're wrestling with the conundrum of what is going on. Both I Really Like You and Run Away With Me employ different sorts of hooks to great effect -- one mature, one immature. One simplistic, one more complex. There's a very familiar framework for pop radio with the songs but Run Away With Me also has fresh originality.
Yet it doesn't seem to be enough, which is really sad.
Just to use a really random example: I really like "Should've Been Us", but I don't understand why Tori Kelly who is a new artist who's never had a real hit, with a good song but that doesn't match the quality of Run Away With Me, with hooks that I can't imagine anyone saying are clearly stronger than RAWM's...she gets her song into the top 20 no problem. But Carly can't even crack the top 50.
You would then talk about push from the label, but Interscope delayed the album for months for the Run Away With Me push, AND Carly actually has gotten some REALLY good promo for someone on her level in the pop world.
It's like nothing is good enough for radio.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 24, 2015 0:33:15 GMT -5
I think that's what the majority of people are trying to say including me. The songs are great, but the hooks aren't strong enough. And I don't know how to explain that, it just is. You take any single off Teenage Dream or 1989, and every single, including The One That Got Away, has a stronger hook than anything off Emotion. Maybe the right word is "presence". I dunno. IRLY was the strongest tho, that's for sure. Yeah, it's not a hooky pop album. That says nothing about its quality, just about its airplay viability. Absolutely. They are two different things.
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popbox
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Post by popbox on Aug 24, 2015 0:33:57 GMT -5
I mean compare the hook on Call Me Maybe to anything on Emotion and you see what some of us are talking about. There just aren't huge hooks. And just for the record, big hooks doesn't always have to mean elementary or repetitive. It just often means a huge, catchy chorus that everyone is going to end up getting stuck in their head. Look at something like Bad Romance, which has one of the biggest hooks in a pop song around, but I'd hardly call it elementary or dumbed down somehow.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 24, 2015 0:39:47 GMT -5
Excellent post and I appreciate that you actually responded to what I was asking. I think you're wrestling with the conundrum of what is going on. Both I Really Like You and Run Away With Me employ different sorts of hooks to great effect -- one mature, one immature. One simplistic, one more complex. There's a very familiar framework for pop radio with the songs but Run Away With Me also has fresh originality. Yet it doesn't seem to be enough, which is really sad. Just to use a really random example: I really like "Should've Been Us", but I don't understand why Tori Kelly who is a new artist who's never had a real hit, with a good song but that doesn't match the quality of Run Away With Me, with hooks that I can't imagine anyone saying are clearly stronger than RAWM's...she gets her song into the top 20 no problem. But Carly can't even crack the top 50. You would then talk about push from the label, but Interscope delayed the album for months for the Run Away With Me push, AND Carly actually has gotten some REALLY good promo for someone on her level in the pop world. It's like nothing is good enough for radio. Um...well Carly was in that same predicament with Call Me Maybe as Tori is with SBU. And I don't even know or have heard that song. Nor do I care. But she IS a brand new artist and we've already said that brand new artists DO INDEED get their shot. Do they get a 2nd shot is up to the material and to the artist themselves. But you can't go saying "this new artist got a Top 20 when Carly, with a much better song in YOUR opinion, did not." It doesn't work like that. Come back to us when Tori is hitting #1 with her 2nd single and most will probably tell you she is giving radio programmers something to offer. Whether it be sex or whatever, it's something. Lots of one hit wonders out there. They are the majority even.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Aug 24, 2015 0:50:52 GMT -5
First off, comparing anything to Call Me Maybe is hard because that song is (and will be) one of the biggest hits of the entire decade.
Second, I DO feel that there are songs on the album where the hooks don't really "align" with current pop radio. To me, Emotion is a good example where it would just sound out of place on radio. All That is amazing, but not right for radio. Warm Blood, of course. When I Needed You. Boy Problems is SO catchy and funky but doesn't really fit in right now.
But not every song is like that. To me, as I've said before, "Your Type" has everything you'd want in a radio smash, with hooks up the arse, an amazing chorus that everyone can relate to, with a currently VERY trendy slick bassline as seen in DWUW, Style, LMH.
"Gimmie Love" has hooks as strong as any Taylor Swift smash, and I really mean that. LA Hallucinations is totally contemporary. Let's Get Lost could slay Hot AC. Run Away With Me has everything Teenage Dream similarly evoked.
To me, when people say the album lacks strong radio hooks, I both wonder what they're (not) hearing, but it also doesn't pay tribute to the diversity of sounds on the album, of which there are many.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 2:04:45 GMT -5
I mean compare the hook on Call Me Maybe to anything on Emotion and you see what some of us are talking about. There just aren't huge hooks. And just for the record, big hooks doesn't always have to mean elementary or repetitive. It just often means a huge, catchy chorus that everyone is going to end up getting stuck in their head. Look at something like Bad Romance, which has one of the biggest hooks in a pop song around, but I'd hardly call it elementary or dumbed down somehow. I don't know why I just thought of this, and being someone who never liked CMM but loves everything else CRJ I really should have. But IMO it's not CMM's hook itself that made that song pop; it was the production. CMM in retrospect is really an outlier in a lot of ways for Carly. Lyrically it's one of the most basic songs she has written - maybe the most basic other than IRLY - and the production is pretty simple in comparison to most of her other work as well. Most of Carly's music, both on Kiss and Emotion, is highly produced (not overproduced, but there are more layered elements going on than in CMM) and the writing has more meat to it. It makes sense that Carly's music as a whole is more reflective of her true age even if her voice and young face scream sweet sixteen but there is an interesting dichotomy between that sweet-sixteen voice and babyface, and the more adult lyricism (that is, Emotion has lots of nuggets of double entendre sprinkled throughout, down to the title track essentially equating to "think about me while you're jacking off"). Carly seems to be aware of this which is why everything is so coyly phrased. But CMM played it more straight and innocent - she looks young, she sounds young, the song is young. There's nothing that requires a second thought there. That is often the case for one-hit wonders - the gap between what we're first given and what that singer is actually all about - so maybe it is as simple as that? That Carly is not offering what we first came to know her for. That would be annoying if the answer is that simple (as this is the one hurdle that is impossible to overcome), but it would not the first time people rejected otherwise suitable music simply because that's "not her." Of course nothing is going to sound as big as CMM when what she has done since then hasn't been all that much like it. Well, other than Good Time. I really hate that people keep forgetting that happened.
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inclinations
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Post by inclinations on Aug 25, 2015 11:57:07 GMT -5
whats this doing today?
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firefly
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Post by firefly on Aug 25, 2015 12:23:44 GMT -5
Run Away With Me is heavenly pop music and I'm going to light a candle to Saint Cecilia if this smashes.
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pancakes
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Post by pancakes on Aug 25, 2015 12:24:26 GMT -5
Why is "Making the Most of the Night" not mentioned more often here? THAT is a smash.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 13:31:08 GMT -5
Ugh i think it fell back down to 51 cuz of Nick Jonas.
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Post by hitmakaontharise on Aug 25, 2015 18:49:57 GMT -5
anybody know how well her album charted lol
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Aug 26, 2015 0:08:51 GMT -5
When is adds day? I thought it was Tuesday's, or did that change too, lol.
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Aug 26, 2015 2:19:35 GMT -5
I think releasing "I Really Like You" as the first single was a mistake. It was another novelty song like "Call Me Maybe" was and probably made listeners think that's all she can do. Releasing a more mature song like this first would have been the smart move, and probably could have helped her in the long run, even if this weren't to be a big smash hit. I haven't listened to the album yet so I don't know what else could be lead single worthy since I don't think this screams lead single to me (even though this is fantastic). That was the biggest mistake. It was imperative that her first single encapsulated a pop hook with artistic growth. The rest of the album has that, where as I Really Like You is juvenile and a sore thumb on the record. The era I hear is: Run Away With Me I Didn't Just Come Here To Dance Gimme Love Warm Blood
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George
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Post by George on Aug 26, 2015 13:32:13 GMT -5
anybody know how well her album charted lol At 61% of sales reported in, she's currently at #12 on HitsDailyDouble with 9,335. She's very close to the #10 & 11 albums, so I hope she can overtake them and land a Top10 debut with this! www.hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart
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inclinations
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Post by inclinations on Aug 29, 2015 13:29:21 GMT -5
guess this isn't doing anything :(
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The Upper Hand
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Post by The Upper Hand on Aug 29, 2015 22:15:46 GMT -5
Can't say I'm surprised or disappointed, though.
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popbox
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Post by popbox on Aug 30, 2015 0:00:07 GMT -5
As I already discussed, I don't know if anything really would smash but here's how I would've played it:
1. Emotion 2. Let's Get Lost (one of the few songs with a big-ish hook) 3. Run Away With Me 4. Making the Most of the Night
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Post by Elusive Chanteuse on Aug 31, 2015 15:02:40 GMT -5
:'(
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Kurt
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Post by Kurt on Aug 31, 2015 18:35:35 GMT -5
Interscope appears to have pulled this - song page and audio on the Top 40 playlist are both gone. *SIGH*
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maine
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Post by maine on Aug 31, 2015 18:41:44 GMT -5
nooooooooooooooo
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lyhom
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Post by lyhom on Aug 31, 2015 18:44:57 GMT -5
fuck
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 18:46:16 GMT -5
Ugh. I wonder if they going to bother trying to release anything else, or if the era is through completely.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Aug 31, 2015 19:14:12 GMT -5
Fuck this shit......
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