Juan Carlos
Administrator
One of Pulse's great hidden gems
πππ
Joined: February 2011
Posts: 37,376
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
Staff
|
Post by Juan Carlos on Aug 11, 2015 15:49:10 GMT -5
FMQB is listing a new release from Macklemore & Ryan Lewis called "Downtown", which goes for adds on September 1.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 11, 2015 15:57:35 GMT -5
Insert several "I told you so"s.
|
|
jred
Platinum Member
Joined: November 2014
Posts: 1,294
|
Post by jred on Aug 11, 2015 18:37:03 GMT -5
As much as I like Growing Up, I could see that freefalling after it hits the 15-20 range, so I'm glad they're not pushing it. Can't wait to hear this!
|
|
ZAYN
7x Platinum Member
Everything that kills me makes me feel alive.
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by ZAYN on Aug 11, 2015 18:37:14 GMT -5
Thank GOD!
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 11, 2015 19:48:10 GMT -5
Ugh. Hopefully they pick up some of Iggy's backlash. I can't think of a less deserving act for pop radio to dick ride.
|
|
sagi
New Member
Joined: August 2015
Posts: 25
|
Post by sagi on Aug 11, 2015 21:57:45 GMT -5
Let's see. They produce and write their material. One song was an attack on commercialism. The second was about going hard to achieve your dreams. The third was about accepting people for who they are. They started on an independent label. They give major features to overlooked local acts.
Someone is really going to have to explain to me the vitriol for these guys. They seem to be what's right about music these days. And it can't just be that people think he's not a great rapper. There are a lot of mediocre singers with long careers and grammy awards to show for it.
|
|
Superundercover
Platinum Member
3 Weeks: @ #1: Cage The Elephant - "Black Madonna"
Joined: June 2013
Posts: 1,925
|
Post by Superundercover on Aug 11, 2015 23:12:28 GMT -5
So freaking excited!!!
|
|
DJ General
5x Platinum Member
Dupe
Joined: March 2010
Posts: 5,932
|
Post by DJ General on Aug 11, 2015 23:14:29 GMT -5
I really like the song with Sheeran. It is a bit strange, but I still think it could have been at least a small radio hit. Then hit radio with this.
|
|
surfy
Diamond Member
Irreplaceable
learning and growing
Joined: September 2013
Posts: 18,065
Pronouns: (she/they)
|
Post by surfy on Aug 12, 2015 4:26:34 GMT -5
Let's see. They produce and write their material. One song was an attack on commercialism. The second was about going hard to achieve your dreams. The third was about accepting people for who they are. They started on an independent label. They give major features to overlooked local acts. Someone is really going to have to explain to me the vitriol for these guys. They seem to be what's right about music these days. And it can't just be that people think he's not a great rapper. There are a lot of mediocre singers with long careers and grammy awards to show for it. This.This.This.SOOOOOOO MUCH THIS.
|
|
Future Captain
3x Platinum Member
hi, i'm the visual representation of untreated mental illnesses
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 3,995
My Charts
|
Post by Future Captain on Aug 12, 2015 7:22:19 GMT -5
Let's see. They produce and write their material. One song was an attack on commercialism. The second was about going hard to achieve your dreams. The third was about accepting people for who they are. They started on an independent label. They give major features to overlooked local acts. Someone is really going to have to explain to me the vitriol for these guys. They seem to be what's right about music these days. And it can't just be that people think he's not a great rapper. There are a lot of mediocre singers with long careers and grammy awards to show for it. The shade in the last sentence tho.
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 12, 2015 8:25:11 GMT -5
Let's see. They produce and write their material. One song was an attack on commercialism. The second was about going hard to achieve your dreams. The third was about accepting people for who they are. While that's all true, it's also sensationalized. The anti-commercialism song sounds like a novelty. The second single was definitely less so, but incredibly generic when compared to many of the big-hook urban hits that pop paid dust to during its chart run. And while the message behind "Same Love" is something that I completely agree with, lbr, he profiteered from a civil rights movement that didn't affect him personally (unless he donated all profit to an NGO?) and the song itself was tuneless. How genuine was it? Anyway, songs may have the wonderfully sensational messages you're talking about and still lack in quality. I cringe soooo much anytime Mackelmore or his fans play up "he's indie!" label. Most of the music I listen to comes from artists on indie labels. Many of the big stars on the radio today started on indie labels. This is hardly an attribute that's unique to him, and the fact that he was #1 on the Hot 100 while still on an indie label just made his "selection" by the media seem all the more unfair. *gave. It's easy to give features to unknowns when you're an unknown yourself. It doesn't mean they're saintly. Now that they've come into money and fame, the features go to big acts that'll help them sell more... like Ed Sheeran. See, I think his success represents a lot of what is WRONG with music these days. A white rapper releasing very run of the mill material and pop radio jumps all over it, while acclaimed and successful black rappers can't hit the pop top 10 no matter what. If that kind of racial bias is "what's right" then hell, I just don't even know. His music IS gimmicky and his talents are limited so of course he'll rub a lot of people the wrong way considering the exposure he's been granted. Usually polarizing songs will hit a brick wall around #15-20 at pop radio and isn't shoved down people's throats, but again he gets special treatment. He got special treatment at the Grammy's and even admit that he was the least deserving of that Rap Album award, and we know this because he posted/boasted his own text to Kendrick after the show. How genuine is your own good deed if you're doing it because you want recognition for it? Oh, and let's not forget that he exposed himself as a racist/anti-semite when he dressed up as a a Jewish caricature straight out of Nazi propaganda posters. And yes, mediocre singers get Grammy's all the time. More wrongs don't make a right.
|
|
jred
Platinum Member
Joined: November 2014
Posts: 1,294
|
Post by jred on Aug 12, 2015 8:51:31 GMT -5
*gave. It's easy to give features to unknowns when you're an unknown yourself. It doesn't mean they're saintly. Now that they've come into money and fame, the features go to big acts that'll help them sell more... like Ed Sheeran. That's exactly why the song was free, right? :) I don't understand why Macklemore's success seems to offend you so much. Most people I know don't care/haven't heard of him/actually enjoy the music. I think you're definitely in the minority here...
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 12, 2015 9:01:53 GMT -5
Well, I've already explained why Mackelmore's success rubs me the wrong way so feel free to review my points if you'd like. I don't know who this "most people" population sample is nor how you draw the conclusion that my opinion on his music is some kind of freaky outlier when Twitter exploded with offense after his Grammy wins, but if you say so sir.
|
|
Hurricane Lee
Moderator
Chairman of The Tortured Poets Department
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 36,067
Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
|
Post by Hurricane Lee on Aug 12, 2015 9:07:43 GMT -5
I'm definitely interested in hearing this to see if it's nearly as good as the material on The Heist, barring Same Love.
|
|
lyhom
Diamond Member
CAPSLOCK-PHOBE
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 11,063
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by lyhom on Aug 12, 2015 9:36:11 GMT -5
to be fair, macklemore did (half-assedly) apologize for the idiotic jewish stereotype costume tbh though that's like putting sprinkles on a pile of s**t but eh may as well
|
|
|
Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 12, 2015 9:58:20 GMT -5
I don't understand why radio and y'all are dickriding him so hard.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 10:16:02 GMT -5
I don't understand why Macklemore's success seems to offend you so much. Most people I know don't care/haven't heard of him/actually enjoy the music. I think you're definitely in the minority here... That also pretty much sits right on what's "wrong" with Macklemore and Ryan Lewis' success, but I don't have the energy to fight that battle today. Suffice to say it's not surprising that the side eyes come most often from the "minority" and not the majority, which has always had a blind spot to these sorts of things. To the person who asked for an explanation of the vitriol (edit - sagi - sorry I didn't tag you at first) I think it is this: Macklemore is too mediocre for me to care what or how he does one way or the other, but really the only time he ever bothered me was when people started trying to classify him as hip-hop. He is pop rap, more likely to be found in a playlist next to Pitbull and Flo Rida than to the likes of J. Cole, Drake, or Kendrick Lamar...it is not a coincidence that when you hear people bitching about Macklemore it's usually urban fans and when someone rushes in to take up for him, nine times out of ten it's a pop fan. Or the fact that his backlash actually didn't even exist until he got nominated for and subsequently won rap category Grammys - kind of a tangent but so much confusion and anger could have been avoided if that whole category was renamed 'hip hop. ' Rap in and of itself is not a genre, it's just an alternative to singing. We don't say that just because someone sings they must be ______ genre, right? So why do that with rap? It's not that hard a concept to get, but I do think many hip-hop heads are so attached to rap (since hip-hop was the birth of rap as we know it) that they don't appreciate pop rappers trying to crowd their space. And pop fans lack the dexterity and/or social grace to differentiate, so they just shoehorn their faves in with the hip-hop rappers, then wonder why everyone is "mad" that their pop rap faves are viewed as more successful. It's because your faves don't represent our genre, but you're acting as if they represent our genre. As long as everyone understands that pop rap lane and doesn't make Macklemore any more or less than that, I'm good. If someone said 'he's like a rap version of Katy Perry' you know, I'd totally get the comparison and it would make sense. And frankly his fans should support this because it's much easier to argue in favor of Macklemore's superior skill that way. For pop rap he's definitely boxing above his weight; I'd probably stop thinking of him as mediocre if he was properly considered pop. It is where all of his airplay and sales come from, after all! But hip-hop, he gets clobbered because he doesn't have the skill to keep up with the lyrical masters and he doesn't have the energy to move the crowd as well as the party rappers can. Iggy's more problematic, but I'd even be capable of acknowledging her existence if she just accepted she doesn't have it in her to be hip-hop. The ticket to continued success for both of them is to let that whole dream of an honorary hood pass die. Final note to at least be mildly on topic with this thread, I hope this song is more along the lines of Can't Hold Us or White Walls, the two Macklemore singles I was able to tolerate. No more Same Love - regardless of genre and general feel-good message, that was a TERRIBLE song with lyrics that made plastic bags floating in the wind sound poetic.
|
|
tinawina
2x Platinum Member
Betrayed and Heartbroken. Kelly weeps.
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 2,100
|
Post by tinawina on Aug 12, 2015 11:10:49 GMT -5
The only thing that bothers me about Macklemore is that he was chugging along enjoying success in the underground scene, where he was considered good. Picky ass backpacker types counted him as one of their own. Then he crosses over rapping about typical topics of progressive underground rap types everywhere, and all of a sudden he's "medicore" and a "culture vulture" doing "pop rap". Okay. Whatever.
And yes, I am an underground (and some above ground LOL) hop hop fan and yes I am black. But his backlash is more about him being white than anything else in my opinion. He's not mediocre, he's actually pretty decent IMO. But fine.
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 12, 2015 11:36:25 GMT -5
But his backlash is more about him being white than anything else in my opinion. He's not mediocre, he's actually pretty decent IMO. If he were black and sounded exactly the same, he'd still be corny and generic... but probably getting less praise and attention.
|
|
tinawina
2x Platinum Member
Betrayed and Heartbroken. Kelly weeps.
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 2,100
|
Post by tinawina on Aug 12, 2015 11:56:56 GMT -5
But his backlash is more about him being white than anything else in my opinion. He's not mediocre, he's actually pretty decent IMO. If he were black and sounded exactly the same, he'd still be corny and generic... but probably getting less praise and attention. I think that's BS. Not the blowing up because he's white part (because that is absolutely true) but the "corny and generic if he was black" part. Songs from his past mixtapes were considered hot by snobby rap fans before he blew up. His entire last album was forwarded to me by multiple people before Thrift Shop ever hit pop radio, along all the other latest releases people kept telling me I needed to listen to. Half those videos went viral before anyone outside the underground knew who he was. ESPECIALLY Same Love. But once he blew up, the same record everyone thought was good became "corny". The same thing happens when indie rock bands blow up. Everyone loves it until it crosses over. He didn't deserve to beat Kendrick for the Grammy, but no one thought he was bad until he sold a lot of records and had hits.
|
|
|
Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 12, 2015 12:03:34 GMT -5
Girl, no one ever thought Ben was dropping hot bars. Go on somewhere with that mess.
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 12, 2015 12:33:49 GMT -5
Songs from his past mixtapes were considered hot by snobby rap fans before he blew up. His entire last album was forwarded to me by multiple people before Thrift Shop ever hit pop radio, along all the other latest releases people kept telling me I needed to listen to. Half those videos went viral before anyone outside the underground knew who he was. ESPECIALLY Same Love. But once he blew up, the same record everyone thought was good became "corny". The same thing happens when indie rock bands blow up. Everyone loves it until it crosses over. He didn't deserve to beat Kendrick for the Grammy, but no one thought he was bad until he sold a lot of records and had hits. You're applying the experience of yourself and your own circle to the population at large. Yes, it's true that many indie bands face backlash after they blow up. Still, it's rather unfair to discredit all criticism as that. I happen to listen to multi-platinum acts and acts that can't even get signed to small indie labels on the same playlist. I don't care how commercial or how obscure the music is if it's good. You may not think it's corny and that's all fine and well, but how are you going to assume that MY opinion changed as if you've got some insider knowledge? No! "Thrift Shop" was corny before it ever got one spin and it's still corny now!
|
|
tinawina
2x Platinum Member
Betrayed and Heartbroken. Kelly weeps.
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 2,100
|
Post by tinawina on Aug 12, 2015 12:47:49 GMT -5
Songs from his past mixtapes were considered hot by snobby rap fans before he blew up. His entire last album was forwarded to me by multiple people before Thrift Shop ever hit pop radio, along all the other latest releases people kept telling me I needed to listen to. Half those videos went viral before anyone outside the underground knew who he was. ESPECIALLY Same Love. But once he blew up, the same record everyone thought was good became "corny". The same thing happens when indie rock bands blow up. Everyone loves it until it crosses over. He didn't deserve to beat Kendrick for the Grammy, but no one thought he was bad until he sold a lot of records and had hits. You're applying the experience of yourself and your own circle to the population at large. Yes, it's true that many indie bands face backlash after they blow up. Still, it's rather unfair to discredit all criticism as that. I happen to listen to multi-platinum acts and acts that can't even get signed to small indie labels on the same playlist. I don't care how commercial or how obscure the music is if it's good. You may not think it's corny and that's all fine and well, but how are you going to assume that MY opinion changed as if you've got some insider knowledge? No! "Thrift Shop" was corny before it ever got one spin and it's still corny now! I'm NOT saying your opinion changed. I was taking issue with your "everybody would think he was corny if he was black" statement. My point was he had positive buzz before he blew up. So no, I don't think everybody would have hated him. I'm saying the BACKLASH came because he was white and blew up past black rappers who cover similar territory, and especially past Kendrick Lamar who while not similar at all, released a better record but didn't blow up big on radio. I'm not saying that he's the best rapper ever LOL, but widespread complaints that he was mediocre or horrible didn't happen until pop radio liked him.
|
|
lyhom
Diamond Member
CAPSLOCK-PHOBE
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 11,063
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by lyhom on Aug 12, 2015 12:51:32 GMT -5
to be fair that's likely because of the fact that he gained a larger audience then
|
|
Wave.
Moderator
Look...
Positive VibesππΎβ€
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 42,803
Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
|
Post by Wave. on Aug 12, 2015 13:23:55 GMT -5
Where is Ryan Lewis in all of this. So we just gon' forget his white ass was up there next to Macklemore?
jk.
|
|
Au$tin
Diamond Member
Pop Culture Guru
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 54,539
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his/him
|
Post by Au$tin on Aug 12, 2015 13:26:53 GMT -5
Well, I've already explained why Mackelmore's success rubs me the wrong way so feel free to review my points if you'd like. I don't know who this "most people" population sample is nor how you draw the conclusion that my opinion on his music is some kind of freaky outlier when Twitter exploded with offense after his Grammy wins, but if you say so sir. That was because they won in the rap category over Kendrick, not because they won in general. And there was a lot of drama behind the scenes because of that. Had the album been put into the pop genre category and won, most people probably wouldn't have cared.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 13:31:26 GMT -5
The only thing that bothers me about Macklemore is that he was chugging along enjoying success in the underground scene, where he was considered good. Picky ass backpacker types counted him as one of their own. Then he crosses over rapping about typical topics of progressive underground rap types everywhere, and all of a sudden he's "medicore" and a "culture vulture" doing "pop rap". Okay. Whatever. And yes, I am an underground (and some above ground LOL) hop hop fan and yes I am black. But his backlash is more about him being white than anything else in my opinion. He's not mediocre, he's actually pretty decent IMO. But fine. It is still my right to find him mediocre...and I'd bet money that at least 75% of the people involved in this argument now didn't know jacksquat about him until he blew up with Thrift Shop so I don't even know that it matters...but just to clarify I find him mediocre in comparison to hip-hop rappers. If people are going to insist on lumping all rap together like that then of course I will compare him across all levels, and underground status or not, I'll give him 'decent' but decent =/= great. He benefits from a lot of outright bad rap and party rap (which isn't necessarily bad so much as its end goal is so simplistic) keeping him from falling to the bottom of the pile. If we split it up by genre and compare him only to other pop rappers, he's at the top of the class by a long shot. Other indie backpack rappers? I'm not going to pretend I follow indie rap like that but he may very well be one of the best in that category. But that's why genre classification is so important to get right. Even if you consider his underground status, nothing about Macklemore ever fit in with what many urban fans consider to be hip-hop right now. Indie acts are kind of a difficult group to consider since they gain their fanbases in a different way and more often than not have a style that is counterculture to the mainstream version of their genre of choice, and maybe even defies the conventions of genre definition. I'd wager that this counterculture feel is what set Macklemore up to be more well-received by pop than urban, so it confuses the situation at best and damages the 'but he IS hip-hop though! Really!' argument at worst. Best case scenario, we get to say Macklemore was an underground hip-hop artist who doesn't fit in with your typical urban/hip-hop crowd. Urban can barely be bothered to 'claim' that underground scene because half the time they don't even acknowledge the existence of anyone in it. If you are acknowledged it's probably because you're about to blow up on a major level and you are going to lose those picky music fans anyway - that has nothing to do with culture vulture accusations at all and is a different complaint coming from a different set of people. That's just how indie fans tend to roll. Either way, what is the purpose in trying to force yourself to be seen as part of a group that isn't inviting you to their party? I do feel a little bad for him b/c like I said, I really feel like the backlash started with his Grammy nominations and the way that went down was pretty much out of his hands. And I think he saw that train coming for him, which is why he tried to make a show of his apology to Kendrick, but he wasn't able to dodge it.
|
|
jjose712
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2012
Posts: 4,372
|
Post by jjose712 on Aug 12, 2015 14:04:24 GMT -5
But his backlash is more about him being white than anything else in my opinion. He's not mediocre, he's actually pretty decent IMO. If he were black and sounded exactly the same, he'd still be corny and generic... but probably getting less praise and attention. Maybe but the backlash wouldn't exist either. Let's be fair most of the mainstream rappers are mediocre at best. I recognize that i'm not a rap expert by any means, but i judge by the lyrics which supposely are very important on rap, and i say supposely because most lyrics in mainstream rap songs are totally cliche, generic as hell and play on stereotypes. Even some of good rappers like Eminem or Drake have cringeworthy lyrics. The backlash started with the grammy's nomination and got worse with him receiving the award and that's a fact. The problem with the critics of white rappers is that generally are too focused on the race of the rapper (which frankly is irrelevant, this is a global world and you can be white and growing listening rap and black and growing listening opera, and that doesn't make you less white or less black) and the vitriol starts with the white rapper success. And i know the argument about ignoring good black rappers on pop which is probably true, but it's not like pop loves white rappers. Apart of Eminem who has a long career with some big hits on pop (and even him needs a good collaboration to make a hit right now) there's no white rappers at all, till now, Iggy and Macklemore are a one album wonders. Yes they had several hits, but we'll see if they are able to establish themselves. We are not in 2004 anymore, hip hop and rap have a tough time to crossover now, so only the most poppy song are able to do it. I remember Whitney Houston receiving criticism for being too pop in her first albums, so it's not that black artist don't face similar backlash for other people's perceptions but an artist should make the music he/she wants to do. It's totally ok not liking his music or him as a rapper, but he being white should not be part of that and generally his race came always with the critics. I'm pretty sure there are a good bunch of amazing rap songs, but frankly most of the mainstream rap hits doesn't sound better that what Macklemore raps, at least he has some variety in terms of themes, because frankly 90% that reach the hot 100 are about money, drugs or banging bitches, and most of them with interchangeable videos
|
|
allow that
Diamond Member
Fall into the atlas
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 14,788
|
Post by allow that on Aug 12, 2015 16:16:02 GMT -5
It's totally ok not liking his music or him as a rapper, but he being white should not be part of that and generally his race came always with the critics. I don't know why you quoted me/call me out on that when I already said this a few posts up... If he were black and sounded exactly the same, he'd still be corny and generic. We are not in 2004 anymore, hip hop and rap have a tough time to crossover now, so only the most poppy song are able to do it. Okay, so we agree that he's a pop rapper then. He's in the same lane as Flo Rida in Pitbull to me. I don't enjoy their songs either (90% of them anyway), but they don't irk me to the extent that Mackelmore does. Why? Well, for one thing it's just a matter of taste. I honestly don't care for Mackelmore's sound. But more than that, Pit & Flo know their lane. They're not pretentious and asking for artistic credibility and somehow being granted it. As @antigonerising said, Mackelmore brings the backlash on himself by insisting he's not in a category with his should-be peers, but instead with the greats. This, for me at least, predates the Grammy awards (which was a cringey moment but didn't change my preexisting opinion on his music). But the fact that he DID wins those Grammy's instead of the greats is where the whole white privilege thing comes in. And finally, as @antigonerising also said, it's our right to find him mediocre. It's an opinion. How are personal opinions being called out for being "wrong" here? Lmao
|
|
sagi
New Member
Joined: August 2015
Posts: 25
|
Post by sagi on Aug 12, 2015 18:16:04 GMT -5
Oh c'mob. Comparing them to Flo Rida and Pittbull? Yes Macklemore and Lewis' songs are rhythmic pop. There is no crime in that. A lot of urban/hip hop artists occasionally play in this same space. (Lil Wayne, Drake, Nikki, I could go on and on) But at the very least Macklemore's songs have a little more depth than Flo Rida and Pitbull. I have no problem with Flo Rida and Pit and I groove to some of their songs but they are on the extreme end of pop rap.
One of the things that get me about the criticism of Macklemore is that we are chastising them for getting urban cred they don't deserve but have people listened to urban lately? Most of the stuff on that format is pure garbage. It's commercial superfluous hip hop by one-hit-wonder artists rapping about money and other more lewd topics. (Or Chris Brown scoring hit after hit doing the same song over and over) Let's not pretend like the urban hip hop format is so virtuous and how dare that Macklemore poison the genre with his pop hooks and rhythmic production. Heck, even his royal hip hop highness Kendrick Lamar struggles to get played on hip hop stations.
If Fetty Wap wins a grammy for album of the year (assuming he ever releases an album) we'll applaud it but if that's what we mean by hip hop now Macklemore should consider himself lucky to be shunned. (And I like those Fetty songs, they just lack depth and he's not 'notable' for his flow imo)
|
|