Rican@
8x Platinum Member
[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,971
|
Post by Rican@ on Feb 15, 2017 14:15:17 GMT -5
Right. Nobody calls her out for that either. Last year, she performed at the BET Award and left. Her mama accepted all of her awards. While at the VMAs, she performed and accepted all of her awards. Her agenda is clear yet nobody says anything about that. I noticed it for a while now. TGJ posted a topic on this very issue a few hours ago. Her fans are making all kinds of excuses, but the one that sticks out for the reason she didn't stay was because BET made fun of her daughter's hair. So why show up at all?!? There's NAACP, Black Girls Rock, Soul Train Awards etc. that she could attend but chooses to only show up for the mainstream awards. Talk about black empowerment. Right. I have more that I want to say, but I'm going to leave it alone. I definitely agree with you. Beyonce used the urban genre for sales to be hip to that crowd yet it is not her real agenda and has not for a while. Yet, from her fans, it is a different story that we all are not swift into her kingdom.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 15, 2017 14:19:07 GMT -5
I think black artists should always support black geared award shows and their roots however I disagree with this whole notion that Beyonce or anyone else supports "white" award shows. Just like TV or anything else their are niche channels for everyone but places like the Oscars or Grammies are not white or geared for just white people. They are and should be for everyone else. So no black artists should not just hole themselves in urban award shows and miss out on views and money that comes with mainstream exposure. The Grammies need to put more Rnb and urban categories on the main show and they need call a few more black acts than just the typical 3 or 4. You're supposed to be the Bible of music so come on reach in and give us Lalah Hathaway moment or something. I agree with this, even though the Grammys are now featuring Gary Clark Jr (every year it seems now) and Anderson .Paak. When will Ledisi or Lalah Hathaway get their due? But regardless of that, you can support all shows. It's just ironic that Solange says "build our own institution." Is she forgetting the BET Awards, Soul Train Awards and NAACP Awards? No, she's just leaving out important information to defend her sister. It is surprising Lalah Hathaway hasn't been asked to perform. She's an incredible singer, she's a Grammy favorite at this point in terms of awards, and there's a rich history there considering her father.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 14:29:54 GMT -5
Not to take anything away from Adèle who I like and respect but having listened to Lalah live album when it comes to music and vocals she murders Adèle and it's not even close. She is just missing some mainstream exposure. I hope they can give her a few live performances to raise awareness on this gifted woman.
|
|
Rican@
8x Platinum Member
[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,971
|
Post by Rican@ on Feb 15, 2017 14:36:11 GMT -5
Agree. I mean "urban" is a style, but I could see where the committee does not look at it that way yet instead of the process of how it is done. I think several fans of Beyonce fail to see that. She is not respected in regards of an artist. I personally don't see her as an artist, but a singer. She has a great team that could get her vision (partial) across greatly. However, she is not the producer and writer of her projects, also does not lead her videos too. She puts in ideas, but don't start them. If I'm wrong, then her team has failed her to let people know her real involvement. Typically, I hear she may change this or that on a song. This 60 to 80 writers on her projects won't get her AOTY and I strongly believe that. She gets far more credit than where her work actually comes from. Even her performance at Grammy was not original, yet it was Beyonce so the praise is there. These things factor into what the committee actually think of her. Yes, black artists do have their own awards yet they have been out of style for minute that due to black artists not showing up and also the extreme of hip hop artists overshadowing them (R&B). The importance is not there anymore for these black artist because the Grammy is still their top awards. I believe Solange's point was that blacks need to make it a point that blacks have their own Grammy style awards. The three you mention, personally, are out of style and again, it does not hold weight, they once had, unfortunately. Black artists need to rebuild and refocus the attention on something new if these three cannot establish a new interest in them. The BET Awards is the closest thing you will get to a "black version of the Grammys" when it comes to ratings, name recognition and hype. I disagree. The BET Awards are not out of style. Every year it still brings in huge ratings for a cable TV show and always rivals the VMAs. They should "rebuild" what they already have if they feel that those award shows are "outdated." Otherwise, they're just creating platforms just to create them. It once was; however, BET, the network, has been downhill and it now doesn't even show music video or anything that really music related (we got New Edition's movie, but still it was a movie about a music group). It is definitely out of style. The only thing that saves it that it can create somewhat of a hype every year to get some to watch it otherwise, it has no weight due to the negligence of BET to be a network for black artists.
|
|
Rican@
8x Platinum Member
[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,971
|
Post by Rican@ on Feb 15, 2017 14:37:55 GMT -5
Not to take anything away from Adèle who I like and respect but having listened to Lalah live album when it comes to music and vocals she murders Adèle and it's not even close. She is just missing some mainstream exposure. I hope they can give her a few live performances to raise awareness on this gifted woman. Oh Lalah's live album is the business. Love it from the moment I heard it.
|
|
ddlz
2x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2011
Posts: 2,165
|
Post by ddlz on Feb 15, 2017 19:23:12 GMT -5
Sorry, winning one award in the R&B field and not being nominated for the other R&B categories in which she would normally be a shoo-in for DOES signal that there wasn't much support in her genre. Her main competition in Urban Contemporary was Anderson .Paak, King, Gallant and Rihanna. The first three are fairly new acts and Rihanna - her biggest competition - was completely shutout of every category. Does not really prove to me that she had the support of her own genre. So, in order for me to make a point, I must provide 20 other examples other than Nelly? No, sorry. I'm not doing that. I believe that the urban supporters aren't coming out in loads and that's part of the reason they're being snubbed. And I will continue to believe that. You might be onto something. Here's an interesting excerpt from 2015 Fader article, which takes us behind the scenes. It looks like ''urban supporters'' might be experiencing Beyonce fatigue. www.thefader.com/2015/02/02/this-is-why-the-urban-contemporary-grammy-exists
|
|
Rican@
8x Platinum Member
[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,971
|
Post by Rican@ on Feb 15, 2017 20:01:46 GMT -5
Sorry, winning one award in the R&B field and not being nominated for the other R&B categories in which she would normally be a shoo-in for DOES signal that there wasn't much support in her genre. Her main competition in Urban Contemporary was Anderson .Paak, King, Gallant and Rihanna. The first three are fairly new acts and Rihanna - her biggest competition - was completely shutout of every category. Does not really prove to me that she had the support of her own genre. So, in order for me to make a point, I must provide 20 other examples other than Nelly? No, sorry. I'm not doing that. I believe that the urban supporters aren't coming out in loads and that's part of the reason they're being snubbed. And I will continue to believe that. You might be onto something. Here's an interesting excerpt from 2015 Fader article, which takes us behind the scenes. It looks like ''urban supporters'' might be experiencing Beyonce fatigue. www.thefader.com/2015/02/02/this-is-why-the-urban-contemporary-grammy-existsThat portion of the article does not quite make any sense, but anyway, why would a song need to considered for Urban Contemporary? He meant R&B Song where it won?
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 15, 2017 20:27:42 GMT -5
Sorry, winning one award in the R&B field and not being nominated for the other R&B categories in which she would normally be a shoo-in for DOES signal that there wasn't much support in her genre. Her main competition in Urban Contemporary was Anderson .Paak, King, Gallant and Rihanna. The first three are fairly new acts and Rihanna - her biggest competition - was completely shutout of every category. Does not really prove to me that she had the support of her own genre. So, in order for me to make a point, I must provide 20 other examples other than Nelly? No, sorry. I'm not doing that. I believe that the urban supporters aren't coming out in loads and that's part of the reason they're being snubbed. And I will continue to believe that. You might be onto something. Here's an interesting excerpt from 2015 Fader article, which takes us behind the scenes. It looks like ''urban supporters'' might be experiencing Beyonce fatigue. www.thefader.com/2015/02/02/this-is-why-the-urban-contemporary-grammy-existsI agree there is a difference in the more traditional style of R&B and a lot of contemporary R&B that blends in trap, hip-hop, etc. Pop has a Traditional Pop category, so it's a solid parallel. Having said that, we all agree there are too many categories, and separating each genre into 2, 3, and even 4 sub-genres is way too much. I don't see where that article suggests 'Beyonce fatigue' at all. I suppose one could interpret it to be saying that once 'urban' artists become really popular there are people who want to move them to mainstream/Pop (which is akin to when rock bands are accused of selling out because they sell records), but that is different from fatigue.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 15, 2017 21:51:00 GMT -5
Adele is one example of current relevance, and even her album and single feels old, despite having a current single out now. It's not like this is the first time this has come up. This has been ongoing for years. Didn't he have an album? What's a "proper release"? Why is it bold to award a Hip Hop artist "through and through"? What? Her single and album feeling "old" has more to do with both being released early in the eligibility period. Blame it on the Academy's eligibility decision. "Hello"and 25 were both bigger successes on the charts than "Formation" and Lemonade in 2016. Not alternative facts. Real ones. As far as the second part, what was your point? As for the last try hard part, Coloring Book wasn't a traditional release. It hasn't been released for sale. It has been released for streaming only, marking the only streaming-only album to win a Grammy. And it was released with no label backing. That's what I meant by "proper." That is a BOLD (and deserving) move for the Grammys, which is being targeted for being "too traditional." Yes, "Through and through" like I said. through and through phrase of through 1. in every aspect; thoroughly or completely. It's a real phrase, not one made up by Tumblr/Twitter users. He's not a Flo Rida. He's pure Hip Hop, something the Grammys do not normally recognize outside of the rap categories. Instead of trying so hard to debate and sound "deep," read and understand what's there. I'm not even going to address 14887fan's long Tumblr/SJW-like post outside of this: the same white men that run the Grammys are the same white men that gave your favorite artists Grammys. Stop acting like this is all a new concept. No one is dismayed by the lack of support for Black artists. They're mad because BeyoncΓ© did not win. Simple as that. I strongly believe that a lot urban artists do no vote. Example: Nelly said that he had been a member for years and did not vote outside of a couple of years. Those urban artists need to vote harder, and it was evident in BeyoncΓ©'s case because she did not get R&B Performance or R&B Song nominations, and did not win Rap/Sung Performance as predicted. So, whose to say that it was only "white men" voting against her when her own genre didn't really support her this year? The point to my second part was in response to you saying urban artists start complaining sooner than after the voting results are revealed, to which I said they have been because it's been the same thing for years.... You seem to be stuck on this idea that this is a Beyonce discussion. It's not. This discussion has been ongoing for a couple years now. Beyond that, your implication that urban artists need to vote harder in order to get recognized is kind of... off-putting? So the only place urban music should expect to get votes from is from urban artists?
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 2:53:54 GMT -5
People should vote for who they think should win, whether it's urban music, country music, pop music or R&B music.
The ones who complain the most are the people who tend to favor the genre, so those are the ones who need to fight for change. Country voters are going to support their bloc, just like Rock or any other genre.
Not everybody has to favor urban music, and no one should expect others to feel the same way about Lemonade or BeyoncΓ©.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 8:42:27 GMT -5
People should vote for who they think should win, whether it's urban music, country music, pop music or R&B music. The ones who complain the most are the people who tend to favor the genre, so those are the ones who need to fight for change. Country voters are going to support their bloc, just like Rock or any other genre. Not everybody has to favor urban music, and no one should expect others to feel the same way about Lemonade or BeyoncΓ©. In a general sense what you say is true. However, if you take that point too far, it means you overlook potential problems, biases, etc. The Oscars lack of diversity was a sign of a lot of things, and they've made some efforts to address the issues. The Grammys had its own overhaul in the mid-90s to add some diversity, and it worked. It's all at least worth examining, but I think it's more important to look at patterns than to use just one example. I think one thing that would help is the panel that determines the final 5 nominees in the top categories being a bit more thoughtful in their choices. What has often happened in Record of the Year, for example, is there will be 3-4 'urban' nominees and then 1 rock nominee; the 'urban' nominees split the vote and then you have Coldplay, Kings of Leon, Green Day, etc winning. Not that any of those are bad records, but it's a real travesty that during the 00s not a single R&B or hip-hop song won Record of the Year. That music was dominating critically and commercially.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 8:46:43 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Santana said Beyonce lost AOTY because Adele is a real singer and Beyonce uses props and other things: www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/santana-beyonce-adele-grammys_us_58a36e25e4b0ab2d2b19d841While Santana is certainly off base, it does represent what some of us have been saying; Beyonce's music is being overshadowed and hurts her when it comes to voting. Not saying that's a good (or bad) thing, just saying it is. I also saw this interesting point made in a different article: I hadn't even thought of the label politics aspect, but it certainly could have been a factor.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 15:12:53 GMT -5
I read somewhere else that the Prince tribute actually got cut short due to time. It was originally going to be the Time seguing into Bruno doing Uptown Funk, then three or four other artists coming out to do the Prince tribute and ending with LGC. Thankfully "UF" was cut; why do that song during a tribute to Prince?
|
|
ry4n
7x Platinum Member
Joined: November 2014
Posts: 7,200
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by ry4n on Feb 16, 2017 15:44:03 GMT -5
Uptown Funk is inspired by Prince's material. But yeah, a tribute should focus attention on the artist being paid tribute.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 16:00:24 GMT -5
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 16:03:19 GMT -5
Her single and album feeling "old" has more to do with both being released early in the eligibility period. Blame it on the Academy's eligibility decision. "Hello"and 25 were both bigger successes on the charts than "Formation" and Lemonade in 2016. Not alternative facts. Real ones. As far as the second part, what was your point? As for the last try hard part, Coloring Book wasn't a traditional release. It hasn't been released for sale. It has been released for streaming only, marking the only streaming-only album to win a Grammy. And it was released with no label backing. That's what I meant by "proper." That is a BOLD (and deserving) move for the Grammys, which is being targeted for being "too traditional." Yes, "Through and through" like I said. through and through phrase of through 1. in every aspect; thoroughly or completely. It's a real phrase, not one made up by Tumblr/Twitter users. He's not a Flo Rida. He's pure Hip Hop, something the Grammys do not normally recognize outside of the rap categories. Instead of trying so hard to debate and sound "deep," read and understand what's there. I'm not even going to address 14887fan's long Tumblr/SJW-like post outside of this: the same white men that run the Grammys are the same white men that gave your favorite artists Grammys. Stop acting like this is all a new concept. No one is dismayed by the lack of support for Black artists. They're mad because BeyoncΓ© did not win. Simple as that. I strongly believe that a lot urban artists do no vote. Example: Nelly said that he had been a member for years and did not vote outside of a couple of years. Those urban artists need to vote harder, and it was evident in BeyoncΓ©'s case because she did not get R&B Performance or R&B Song nominations, and did not win Rap/Sung Performance as predicted. So, whose to say that it was only "white men" voting against her when her own genre didn't really support her this year? The point to my second part was in response to you saying urban artists start complaining sooner than after the voting results are revealed, to which I said they have been because it's been the same thing for years.... You seem to be stuck on this idea that this is a Beyonce discussion. It's not. This discussion has been ongoing for a couple years now. Beyond that, your implication that urban artists need to vote harder in order to get recognized is kind of... off-putting? So the only place urban music should expect to get votes from is from urban artists? Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 16:28:15 GMT -5
Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree. In some ways Chance's win almost comes across as being anti-Beyonce. I say that because Kanye, Frank, and Kendrick all lost New Artist despite higher sales and more exposure. Chance managed to win, though, and did so in a year where people are upset Beyonce lost. It's almost like some voters tried to show they have no problem awarding political 'urban' music, it just won't be Beyonce.
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 16:47:23 GMT -5
Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree. In some ways Chance's win almost comes across as being anti-Beyonce. I say that because Kanye, Frank, and Kendrick all lost New Artist despite higher sales and more exposure. Chance managed to win, though, and did so in a year where people are upset Beyonce lost. It's almost like some voters tried to show they have no problem awarding political 'urban' music, it just won't be Beyonce. Exactly. That's why I think it's more of a BeyoncΓ© backlash than anything else. Think about it. You earn 9 nominations and you only take home 2. It's almost a complete snub. And there is clearly a fatigue in the R&B field for her as well. Wasn't 4 completely snubbed in the R&B field, until it got a throwaway nomination and win the following year? Not to mention, how Pharrell was able to beat her for Urban Contemporary? That's not to say that the Grammys don't have a race issue or genre bias. But the Grammy voters were perfectly okay with allowing Chance The Rapper to make history, but refused another BeyoncΓ© 5/6 win.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Feb 16, 2017 17:02:22 GMT -5
There is a group of Beyonce fans on Twitter who keep blaming the RIAA for Beyonce losing to Adele for AOTY.
They think the RIAA hands out The Grammy Awards? lol
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 16, 2017 17:26:46 GMT -5
The point to my second part was in response to you saying urban artists start complaining sooner than after the voting results are revealed, to which I said they have been because it's been the same thing for years.... You seem to be stuck on this idea that this is a Beyonce discussion. It's not. This discussion has been ongoing for a couple years now. Beyond that, your implication that urban artists need to vote harder in order to get recognized is kind of... off-putting? So the only place urban music should expect to get votes from is from urban artists? Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree. I guess it was about Beyonce last year too. What's a kendrick?
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 17:44:11 GMT -5
Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree. I guess it was about Beyonce last year too. What's a kendrick? The argument made more sense in Kendrick's case because he lost in a year where the general field were all white winners. Not the same case this year.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 16, 2017 17:49:05 GMT -5
I guess it was about Beyonce last year too. What's a kendrick? The argument made more sense in Kendrick's case because he lost in a year where the general field were all white winners. Not the same case this year. Oh right, good point! One exception means it doesn't exist.
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 17:56:01 GMT -5
The argument made more sense in Kendrick's case because he lost in a year where the general field were all white winners. Not the same case this year. Oh right, good point! One exception means it doesn't exist. OMG. Who said it didn't exist? You can also argue that just because BeyoncΓ© didn't win doesn't mean the Grammys are racist. So, in order to prove that they aren't racist, they must give all of the awards to black people or urban artists? Um, no. Sorry. We are not going to agree here. Congrats to Chance on his win. Bettr luck next time, Bey!
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 18:24:57 GMT -5
Lol. The discussion is definitely more about BeyoncΓ© than urban artists being recognized outside of the "urban" categories. Chance making history is totally being overshadowed by it. Sorry. We'll have to agree to disagree. I guess it was about Beyonce last year too. What's a kendrick? Kendrick was up against someone with a lot more commercial clout than him, and who is seen as an artist. Kendrick doesn't have nearly the profile of Beyonce, so I don't think they can be grouped, per se. And I say that as someone who wanted Kendrick to win AOTY last year. What are people's reason for critically loved country albums by artists not winning (Sturgill Simpson, Chris Stapleton) or not even getting nominated (Miranda Lambert)?
|
|
|
Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Feb 16, 2017 19:29:42 GMT -5
^ There are voting biases against country in general field categories as well. There can exist biases with different motives that manifest in similar ways.
Your question makes it seem like it's impossible for it to possibly be a race issue since country is snubbed as well. That's just illogical. In a sense, that's like someone kicking a puppy and also kicking a cat. That person may have kicked the dog because he was taught dogs were dangerous, while he may have kicked the cat because he was allergic. Two different motives, but the same outcome.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,482
|
Post by jenglisbe on Feb 16, 2017 22:37:28 GMT -5
^ There are voting biases against country in general field categories as well. There can exist biases with different motives that manifest in similar ways. Your question makes it seem like it's impossible for it to possibly be a race issue since country is snubbed as well. That's just illogical. In a sense, that's like someone kicking a puppy and also kicking a cat. That person may have kicked the dog because he was taught dogs were dangerous, while he may have kicked the cat because he was allergic. Two different motives, but the same outcome. I've talked enough in here about why I think R&B and hip-hop gets slighted. You are making assumptions in your reply there.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 22:38:01 GMT -5
It's entirely possible (nay, likely) for there to be multiple things that caused this year's results. In fact I actually had 11 things listed out at first (I deleted them b/c one reason jumped out at me more than others). Only two of those reasons concerned racial or genre bias. But those two things are the points that keep occurring on a regular basis, regardless of who the artist is. So this is why the conversation keeps coming back to that. Not that one should discount all the personal aspects of Bey's loss that are on the table here; all of these things are relevant and help take the edge off her loss. But choosing to entirely shift focus or 'blame' on the Beyonce-specific reasons for her loss just comes off as an attempt at distraction? Because every year it's different. Beyonce lost because she is overexposed but Kendrick lost b/c Taylor was a bigger seller and Kendrick just wasn't exposed enough...the goal posts keep changing.
And ngl, the concept of 'fatigue' really just sounds like a masked form of 'hating.' When people care more to see Bey lose than to see Adele win, it kind of reinforces that Beyonce probably should have won, IMO.
Anyway, to the one reason that jumped out at me the most - I was thinking about how I'm still salty that Anti wasn't nominated for AOTY. It deserved it over the sleepy Views and the (to me) somewhat uneven Purpose, and at least then if Adele won we all could have told ourselves 'the two r&b albums split votes' (that's how everyone outside of the Hive made peace with Beck pulling out the win over Bey's self-titled) and that would mostly be the end of the conversation.
For some reason thinking of the vote splitting in 2015 made me recall that Pharrell is signed to Columbia too, right? It very well could be coming down to Bey's own label siding with their other artists whenever they are given the chance. In 2015 that would be the reason Pharrell won urban contemporary over her, but in AOTY was probably just enough to split votes and knock them both out of the running (Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran probably split votes amongst themselves as well, allowing Beck to sneak in a win over all of them). In 2017, Bey did not face any labelmate competition in urban contemporary this time so there was not much risk of a loss there, but then the AOTY race rendered anyone outside of Adele and Bey such a non-contender that it essentially made Columbia's voters the collective kingmaker.
Bey doesn't do traditional promo or send singles to pop anymore (and it doesn't even seem like she makes an effort to work the urban singles that much, she just sends them out and urban plays them out of demand). If you're not on the marketing team what is there even for you to do during a Bey era? So it could be as innocent as most of the label's employees simply not feeling 'connected' to her or any of her releases. But it could also point to more nefarious politics at the top of the label chain, almost like she's being lowkey punished for not playing by industry rules anymore. No way for us to know, but regardless it seems now that Beyonce's only chance at a major category is to entirely avoid competition within her own label.
|
|
magik
Gold Member
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 506
|
Post by magik on Feb 16, 2017 22:54:18 GMT -5
It's still quite possible that some votes were split, though.
Drake could have easily taken some much needed votes away from BeyoncΓ©.
It's also quite possible that not that many voters were feeling BeyoncΓ© or Lemonade, hence why it only took two awards.
Biases and "fatigue" exist everywhere, including this thread. People are voting for these awards, not machines.
|
|
BDGeek
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2013
Posts: 2,603
|
Post by BDGeek on Feb 16, 2017 23:16:11 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Santana said Beyonce lost AOTY because Adele is a real singer and Beyonce uses props and other things: www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/santana-beyonce-adele-grammys_us_58a36e25e4b0ab2d2b19d841While Santana is certainly off base, it does represent what some of us have been saying; Beyonce's music is being overshadowed and hurts her when it comes to voting. Not saying that's a good (or bad) thing, just saying it is. I also saw this interesting point made in a different article: I hadn't even thought of the label politics aspect, but it certainly could have been a factor. I'm glad somebody brought up the Lemonade's streaming exclusivity. It definitely inhibited my own listening/watching of the album, which occurred through a Tidal free trial that I promptly cancelled afterward. In terms of label politics, I'm not sure if/how labels lobby on behalf of their artists to win Grammys. But I know that for the CMAs, Nashville labels assemble packages and send them to CMA members to encourage them to vote for their artists. Adele and BeyoncΓ© are both Columbia artists. Since 25 has sold 9 million+ copies in the US and Lemonade has sold 1.6 million (a number Adele outsold in her first week) I wouldn't be surprised if Columbia found 25 the more commercially viable record to push.
|
|
Rican@
8x Platinum Member
[Only dry eyes, I would love on you for years]
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,971
|
Post by Rican@ on Feb 16, 2017 23:30:57 GMT -5
But is that point logic, Adele and Taylor both did not have any streaming with their releases and still won? At least, "Lemonade" was offered on something.
|
|