KelownaGuy20
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2004
Posts: 2,449
Pronouns: He / Him / His
|
Post by KelownaGuy20 on Oct 15, 2017 22:57:24 GMT -5
Here's a question that's been on my mind for some time, and I have no idea what the answer is... maybe somebody here does.
Does anybody know where there isn't a "Best Pop Song" category for songwriters? The other major genres all have awards for composition, but pop is left to compete in the general field against everyone.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,530
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 16, 2017 9:23:07 GMT -5
Here's a question that's been on my mind for some time, and I have no idea what the answer is... maybe somebody here does. Does anybody know where there isn't a "Best Pop Song" category for songwriters? The other major genres all have awards for composition, but pop is left to compete in the general field against everyone. I find it odd, too, but the going thought has been because in general pop songs have dominated SOTY so there was no need for a separate award.
|
|
Zach
7x Platinum Member
And at once I knew I was not magnificent...
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 7,539
|
Post by Zach on Oct 16, 2017 11:22:52 GMT -5
Here's a question that's been on my mind for some time, and I have no idea what the answer is... maybe somebody here does. Does anybody know where there isn't a "Best Pop Song" category for songwriters? The other major genres all have awards for composition, but pop is left to compete in the general field against everyone. I've always just assumed it to be because of how much more pop music is focused on being as catchy as possible and not on the actual technical quality of the composition and lyrics, which is what the "song" categories are supposed to be all about. While I think the basis of my assumption is kinda true, it's almost certainly isn't the actual reason. I mean, "pop" songs win SOTY almost every year and most of them are deserving.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,530
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 16, 2017 13:35:19 GMT -5
Here's a question that's been on my mind for some time, and I have no idea what the answer is... maybe somebody here does. Does anybody know where there isn't a "Best Pop Song" category for songwriters? The other major genres all have awards for composition, but pop is left to compete in the general field against everyone. I've always just assumed it to be because of how much more pop music is focused on being as catchy as possible and not on the actual technical quality of the composition and lyrics, which is what the "song" categories are supposed to be all about. While I think the basis of my assumption is kinda true, it's almost certainly isn't the actual reason. I mean, "pop" songs win SOTY almost every year and most of them are deserving. Melody/song construction are a big part of catchiness, but also a big part of songwriting. It's another thing that makes Grammys won a bit misleading; for instance, Adele would have 2-3 more Grammys at this point if Pop Song existed (whereas Alicia Keys and Beyoncé have been able to add to their hauls via R&B Song). It's interesting, too, because Pop Album exists, so there not being a Pop Song category is a real anomaly.
|
|
anafan
4x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2004
Posts: 4,450
|
Post by anafan on Oct 16, 2017 17:37:01 GMT -5
From Goldderby, member who has submission lists:
Entered for Best New Artist: Aminé James Arthur Kane Brown Alessia Cara Cardi B Cashmere Cat Luke Combs Noah Cyrus Lindsay Ell Chris Janson Khalid LANY Zara Larsson Lil Uzi Vert Dua Lipa Logic Post Malone Vic Mensa Julia Michaels Midland Mura Masa Old Dominion Jon Pardi Sampha SZA Brett Young (and a bunch of others, obviously)
NOT entered for Best New Artist: 21 Savage Lauren Alaina BTS Camila Cabello Dave East Halsey Kehlani Kodak Black Kyle Chris Lane Marshmello Migos French Montana William Michael Morgan Carly Pearce Rag’n’Bone Man Michael Ray Sevyn Streeter Harry Styles Syd Bryson Tiller
|
|
|
Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Oct 16, 2017 18:07:35 GMT -5
Rooting for Midland and/or Jon Pardi to represent country in Best New Artist!
|
|
Choco
Diamond Member
lavender haze
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 27,050
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by Choco on Oct 17, 2017 8:41:06 GMT -5
Alessia Cara, Cardi B, Khalid, SZA and Logic for BNA!
(Would love Dua Lipa but that ain't happening).
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,909
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Oct 17, 2017 13:11:39 GMT -5
Cashmere Cat? He had that song with Ariana a few years ago that I loved.
|
|
14887fan
Diamond Member
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 11,256
|
Post by 14887fan on Oct 17, 2017 14:31:47 GMT -5
- HITSInteresting. Bruno avoiding the Pop categories likely means that everyone is aware of the inevitable Ed Sheeran sweep. Curious to see where Lorde submitted.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,530
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 17, 2017 14:53:36 GMT -5
Yeah it's smart of Bruno Mars to go R&B Album, though it will be interesting to see if voters there recognize him; the R&B categories sometimes go for more off beat nominees. I also still expect Mars to submit something to Pop Solo ("24K Magic" there and "That's What I Like" to R&B Performance, for instance).
I wonder why Drake didn't submit More Life to a genre category.
|
|
Glove Slap
Administrator
Sweetheart
Downloading ༺༒༻ Possibilities
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 29,480
Staff
|
Post by Glove Slap on Oct 17, 2017 16:28:17 GMT -5
Had to go back to check last year's BNA nominees to confirm that Alessia Cara wasn't there. Given that, I think BNA will look along the lines of this: Alessia Cara Logic James Arthur (Unfortunately) Old Dominion Post Malone/SZA I was split between Post and Cardi, but he's had a bigger year overall, and has the added benefit of having a hit album out during the tracking period as well. I can see both him and SZA being there too and maybe Old Dominion out. I'll be very pleased if James Arthur isn't there (and opens a spot for Khalid), but Grammy's love their repenting sensitive white men with guitars. Linnethia Monique, I'm curious what your thoughts are on how the BNA category will end up looking like.
|
|
Linnethia Monique
Diamond Member
Still 100% Snackable
🗣 NOW GET YOUR BOOTS AND YOUR COAT FOR THIS...
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 24,208
|
Post by Linnethia Monique on Oct 17, 2017 19:41:28 GMT -5
I'm honestly baffled on how they are putting Logic in the pool for BNA considering he has 3 Top 5 Billboard debuting albums and they've all gone Gold since his first release three years ago. He's also been signed to Def Jam for the past 4 or so years and even had the VP of A&R at the time, NO I.D., as his Co-Executive Producer. Yeah he may have struggled during his mixtape days, but as soon as he made the XXL Freshman Class he has been set.
With that all aside my current nominations would look like this:
Alessia Cara: You can't deny that this girl hasn't been having a huge couple of years. She's probably already packed down for a few Pop Nominations for "Scars To Your Beautiful" and she'll spearhead the Dance category too along with Zedd. Slow burning success is what the committee loves and none of her success has been instant.
Khalid: Another young talent that had the same slow burn success like Alessia, but still under 20.
SZA: If she doesn't get nominated than we have to fight. She's the female Alt/R&B answer to what the rap industry is currently doing on the Streaming game. Critical darling that has amassed several op-ed pieces on her and her honesty that is so damn attractive. Formal debut is doing amazing on the charts and selling out her concert within mere minutes is nothing to scoff at. Yeah she may have been around just like Logic, but she has been more underneath the radar unlike him.
Post Malone: He has what James Arthur has and more including a controversial past that he was able to skirt around.
Brett Young: The obligatory country act and the counteract to Post Malone and James Arthur. Really successful couple of years and Big Machine is going to do their damnedest to try and get him nominated for this category. Half of the label are award grabs in the country field and Grammy darlings/vets to boot.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 21:06:48 GMT -5
Interesting. Bruno avoiding the Pop categories likely means that everyone is aware of the inevitable Ed Sheeran sweep. Curious to see where Lorde submitted. Bruno submitting to R&B may not be as much about Ed as it may seem. I've been waiting the whole year to see where he planned to submit because he's been progressively establishing himself more as an r&b artist with this era. 24k Magic was categorized as r&b when it was released (so his singles have all charted as r&b songs for Billboard purposes) and he's been doubling down on the urban/UAC promotion ever since Uptown Funk, capped off with a BET Awards performance. This was a very methodical, long-planned decision IMO. Bruno will certainly have less competition in r&b than he would in pop though (which is competitive no matter what the year), so if there was any forethought to the decision I'd guess it was in a more general sense. It is interesting to note that Bruno and Ed are both Atlantic artists, but I think this submission to different genre categories just works out to be a convenient coincidence for the label, and not purposeful. Not that Grein's thoughts account for much but I thought it was odd that he didn't make any mention of Bruno in his ROTY or SOTY predictions. That was a bit of a head scratcher. What the hell is Calvin Harris doing??? Funk Wav Bounces did rely more on hip-hop features and 70s soul inspiration, but I don't think that urban contemporary nom is gonna work out for him lol. Imagine Dragons is screwing themselves out of an easy rock nom IMO. I'm interested to see how well that rock submission works out for Harry. As iffy as his chances might seem there, it's a better bet than pop where the field was too crowded for him to have a chance. I was flipping through one of the Gold Derby threads a while back and someone clarified the voting process for the majors - when the at-large Grammy committee receives the shortlist of 20 contenders in those categories, they are not told the vote order. HITS claimed a while back that Alessia was one of the top 5 for BNA...not sure how they found that out...but I'll trust their sources are accurate. (HITS is messy, but they're generally not liars.) So her 2017 snub isn't quite as odd as it seemed to me before, but it's still kind of odd. Her chances may be pretty strong now. I didn't even bother mentioning Logic before because I was sure the amount of previously released material disqualified him. They are stretching those rules to the absolute limits.
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,909
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Oct 17, 2017 21:42:25 GMT -5
Wow at Calvin being bold with Urban Contemp Album! Bruno has no business being submitted to Pop Album so no shock there. Totally forgot Alicia released an album.
|
|
forg
2x Platinum Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,355
|
Post by forg on Oct 17, 2017 21:59:12 GMT -5
With Alessia Cara now confirmed to be eligible, she should be an easy BNA nomination now.
Surprised with Logic's inclusion.
There's a good possibility that 1-800-273-8255 trio will be all nominated for BNA
I want Bruno Mars to submit Versace on the Floor for R&B performance but likely not because it was not a hit
|
|
willapted33
9x Platinum Member
blonded
Joined: February 2017
Posts: 9,367
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by willapted33 on Oct 18, 2017 3:13:42 GMT -5
it would be hilarious if Chance the Rapper won BNA in 2016 (10 Day came out in 2012) then Logic won it in 2017 (Logic: The Mixtape came out in 2009) when neither of them are close to being new artists
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,909
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Oct 18, 2017 7:18:38 GMT -5
..."came into prominence"
|
|
Linnethia Monique
Diamond Member
Still 100% Snackable
🗣 NOW GET YOUR BOOTS AND YOUR COAT FOR THIS...
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 24,208
|
Post by Linnethia Monique on Oct 18, 2017 9:15:29 GMT -5
..."came into prominence" At this point they would be stretching that definition thin to accommodate certain acts.
|
|
Verisimilitude
8x Platinum Member
'90s Zealot
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 8,959
|
Post by Verisimilitude on Oct 18, 2017 9:40:49 GMT -5
It's not quite exactly a Shelby Lynne situation, who won Best New Artist in 2001 despite her first album being released in 1989. I just see Best New Artist as Best Breakthrough Artist really.
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 18, 2017 11:39:52 GMT -5
hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=308889Wednesday, October 18, 2017 GREIN ON GRAMMYS: WHO'S IN, WHO'S OUT FOR BEST NEW ARTISTby Paul Grein Grammy officials will tell you that Best New Artist is the hardest category to get right. In years past, sometimes they've been too lenient about eligibility (Shelby Lynne was on her sixth studio album when she won). Other times, they've been too strict (Richard Marx was knocked out of contention for having had one song on the Nothing in Common soundtrack—an album that wasn't even a hit). Here are some of the artists whose eligibility this year was in question for one reason or another, together with how the Recording Academy, with the help of a large screening committee, decided these cases. First, some "borderline cases" that made it onto the list of 374 eligible artists. EligibleAlessia Cara. The singer/songwriter was allowed in even though her 2015 hit "Here" was a smash. It was certified double platinum by the RIAA on Jan. 7, 2016—nearly nine months before the start of the current eligibility year (Oct. 1, 2016-Sept. 30, 2017). Cara also had another platinum single ("Wild Things") and a gold album (Know-It-All) prior to the start of this eligibility year—a year in which she built on that early success with numerous hits. Lil Uzi Vert. The rapper was allowed in for his first full-length album, Luv Is Rage 2, even though he had released four mixtapes, including the hits Lil Uzi Vert vs. the World and The Perfect Luv Tape, prior to the start of this eligibility year. Logic. The rapper was allowed in for his third album, Everybody. His first two albums, Under Pressure and The Incredible True Story, were both hits, though they weren't certified gold until this year. Logic also had five earlier mixtapes, including the hit Bobby Tarantino. Jon Pardi. The country singer is on his second album, California Sunrise. He is nominated for New Artist of the Year at the CMA Awards. Old Dominion, The country group is also on its second album, Happy Endings. The group is also nominated for New Artist of the Year at the CMAs. AJR. The indie pop band is eligible for its second album, The Click. Noah Cyrus. Artists no longer have to have released an album to qualify. Cyrus' long-delayed debut album, NC-17, has yet to be released, but she has released five or more tracks and thus qualifies. Hailee Steinfeld. The actress/singer has yet to release her first full-length album, but she released an EP, Haiz, in November 2015. Jordan Smith. Smith, who won The Voice in December 2015, released his debut album, Something Beautiful, in March 2016. The Grammys decided he should get another shot. And now, some "borderline cases" that didn't make it. Not EligibleMigos. The hip-hop trio wasn't allowed for its sophomore album, Culture. The trio had released 15 mixtapes prior to the start of this eligibility year. (The new rules say an artist "must have released a minimum of five singles/tracks or one album," but cannot have released "more than 30 singles/tracks or three albums" prior to the start of the current eligibility year.) Rag'n'Bone Man. The highly-touted English singer/songwriter isn't on the list for his first album, Human. Lauren Alaina. The country singer is up for a CMA award as New Artist of the Year. She may have been knocked on the grounds that she attained prominence in 2011 when she was runner-up to Scotty McCreery on Season 10 of American Idol. Harry Styles, Niall Horan, Liam Payne. The One Direction alums all had big hits during the year. 1D was never nominated for a Grammy (!), so these alums could conceivably have been eligible here as solo artists, but the committee (wisely) decided that their 1D success gave them prominence. A Boogie Wit da Hoodie. The rapper isn't on the list for his first studio album, The Bigger Artist. BTS. The South Korean boy band isn't on the list for its hit EP, Love Yourself: Her. Kodak Black. The rapper isn't on the list for his first full-length album, Painting Pictures. Russ. The rapper isn't on the list for his debut album, There's Really a Wolf. He had released 11 prior mixtapes. 21 Savage. The rapper isn't on the list for his first studio album, Issa Album. XXXTentation. The rapper isn't on the list for his first studio album, 17. Young M.A. The female rapper isn't on the list for her first EP, Herstory. Kehlani. The singer/songwriter wasn't eligible for her first full-length album, SweetSexySavage. She was nominated for Best Urban Contemporary Album two years ago for her mixtape You Should Be Here. Artists are no longer eligible once they have received a Grammy nomination. That also disqualified the next six artists on this list. Childish Gambino. The multi-media star wasn't eligible for his third studio album, "Awaken My Love!" He had two nominations three years ago—Best Rap Album and Best Rap Performance. Halsey. The pop singer wasn't eligible for her sophomore album, Hopeless Fountain Kingdom. She was nominated last year as a featured artist on The Chainsmokers' "Closer." She was also nominated as a featured artist on Justin Bieber's Purpose, an Album of the Year contender. Bryson Tiller. The R&B star wasn't eligible for his sophomore album, True to Self. He was nominated for Best R&B Song last year for "Exchange." Lil Yachty. The 21-year-old rapper wasn't eligible for his debut album, Teenage Emotions. He was nominated last year for Best Rap/Sung Performance for his featured role on D.R.A.M.'s "Broccoli." Thomas Rhett. The country singer wasn't eligible for his third album, Life Changes. He was nominated for Best Country Song last year for "Die a Happy Man." Jhené Aiko. The singer/songwriter wasn't eligible for her second studio album, Trip. She had three nominations three years ago—Best Urban Contemporary Album, Best R&B Song and Best Rap/Sung Collaboration. Other Noteworthy Acts That Are EligibleKane Brown Post Malone Khalid Luke Combs SZA Julia Michaels James Arthur Brett Young Cardi B Midland Marian Hill Playboi Carti Cheat Codes Bishop Briggs Kaleo Zara Larsson Dua Lipa Bebe Rehxa Grace VanderWaal Other New or New-ish Acts* That Are Not EligiblePhantogram Jo Jo Meek Mill The xx Joey Bada$$ Father John Misty Machine Gun Kelly French Montana Neck Deep Dave East Fifth Harmony A$AP Mob ODESZA Dustin Lynch Kip Moore KYLE Kygo *defined as acts that have released three or fewer studio albums, the maximum allowed under the current rules.
|
|
Linnethia Monique
Diamond Member
Still 100% Snackable
🗣 NOW GET YOUR BOOTS AND YOUR COAT FOR THIS...
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 24,208
|
Post by Linnethia Monique on Oct 18, 2017 14:54:28 GMT -5
That HITS article reads like, “I don’t get it either.”
|
|
Kurt
Administrator
#1: Jacob Collier f/John Legend & Tori Kelly – "Bridge Over Troubled Water"
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 22,613
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
Staff
|
Post by Kurt on Oct 18, 2017 16:25:06 GMT -5
But why on Earth did they include JoJo in their list?!
|
|
Linnethia Monique
Diamond Member
Still 100% Snackable
🗣 NOW GET YOUR BOOTS AND YOUR COAT FOR THIS...
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 24,208
|
Post by Linnethia Monique on Oct 18, 2017 16:42:21 GMT -5
But why on Earth did they include JoJo in their list?! I had to Google that spelling to see if there was another JoJo I was unaware of
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,909
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Oct 18, 2017 17:16:16 GMT -5
Screaming!
|
|
Wave.
Moderator
Look...
Positive Vibes🙏🏾❤
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 42,834
Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
|
Post by Wave. on Oct 18, 2017 23:56:14 GMT -5
Screaming at Meek Mill. So we just gonna forget he got sonned by a Grammy Nominated diss🤔🤔😂
|
|
Enigma.
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 13,590
|
Post by Enigma. on Oct 19, 2017 3:15:41 GMT -5
From Goldderby, member who has submission lists: NOT entered for Best New Artist: Carly Pearce Rag’n’Bone Man CRAZY wonder why...
|
|
Troublemaker
4x Platinum Member
Tasteless Heaux
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,854
|
Post by Troublemaker on Oct 19, 2017 8:06:58 GMT -5
From Goldderby, member who has submission lists: NOT entered for Best New Artist: Carly Pearce Rag’n’Bone Man CRAZY wonder why... My assumptions would be: Carly became even bigger after her album dropped (last week) way past the eligibility period Rag'n'Bone Man's human was only huge on alternative which has a small audience ORGrammys is clueless as usual
|
|
|
Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 19, 2017 11:00:20 GMT -5
Labels have to submit artists/songs. Just like with the RIAA...
Carly's label may have messed up.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 14:28:54 GMT -5
I was thinking Big Machine (Carly's label) might have intentionally held her back with the intent to submit her to BNA next year, when they think her chances for BNA and album nominations would be stronger. (That theory hinges on "Every Little Thing" not being submitted/nominated in any performance categories, though.) Not sure why Columbia would hold back on Rag'n'Bone, as I fully expect that Human was submitted to rock performance/song.
|
|
forg
2x Platinum Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,355
|
Post by forg on Oct 19, 2017 22:46:43 GMT -5
I just think of BNA as basically BREAKTHROUGH ARTIST and not exactly new
|
|