nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 25, 2017 20:25:51 GMT -5
Snowbeast Born This Way sold 6 million, Reputation is currently at 1.58 million, and may potentially reach 4-5 million if End Game is a worldwide smash. But yes, I understand that it is very insulting to compare Reputation to Prism or Born This Way. We can only compare it to 25 or Thriller. She’s had one and a half pop eras so far, lol. All of your facts are deliberately biased and stretch the truth. Does selling 100k more than Born This Way mean that they’re not comparable, when that’s less than 10% of the opening week sales? You also failed to comprehend the entire point of the post you quoted. The comparisons are relative. Wasn't Born This Way available for $1.00 at one point? How many of those 6 million were sold at normal prices? edit: apparently 430k since it was a short lived promo. 6 million for BTW is worldwide isn't it? Reputation should be around 2.5 million worldwide. Also album sales look like they're way down compared to even 2011, the 10th highest selling album in 2016 had barely 0.5M sales vs 1.2M in 2011. I'd be curious to see what the total sales are because that suggests Reputation might have already overtaken BTW when you adjust for the decline in industry sales.
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Nov 25, 2017 20:48:22 GMT -5
Reputation sold +2m worldwide in the 1st week for the record. And let's not pretend BTW got 1.1m because Gaga was as popular as Taylor, the album was being sold for less than 3$, it even made Billboard include a new rule in the charts.
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Nov 25, 2017 20:51:51 GMT -5
Omg @ someone pulling the "this is only her second pop era" card. That's very desssspaaaaaarrriiittooo. ;)
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Nov 25, 2017 20:59:28 GMT -5
Also Red era might have been bigger than Prism and BTW, that's why I don't get why people are comparing reputation to those.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Nov 25, 2017 22:01:42 GMT -5
No one is saying this is her Witness. It’s being compared to Prism and Born This Way. And no one is saying this is flopping but it is a downgrade from her last era. You need to stop throwing words in peoples’ mouths. It it doesn’t matter if it’s her sixth album or not. Reputation is following a similar trajectory as Prism and Born This Way but with Taylor’s standards, not Katy’s or Gaga’s. All three artists have cemented their place as pop legends of the 2010s but pointing out that this era isn’t living up to the 1989 era is not a statement of saying it’s a flop. PRISM was preceded by a huge smash (Roar), and this was preceded by Taylor's most lukewarm first single yet. Yet Repuation has sold nearly what PRISM has to date in one week, in 2017, where album sales are even more dismal. I don't get how this is her PRISM at all. Because you think the album is slightly more s**tty than 1989, and PRISM was slightly more s**tty than Teenage Dream? That's the only comparison I can see, but it looks like everyone is comparing numbers and stats so..C) Born This Way and its campaign pulled all the stops, promotion, media circus and had Gaga's biggest hit to date preceding the album release. Gaga was also at the height of her popularity. Again, this album opened with over 100,000 more than Born This Way. What. Is. The. Comparison? Born This Way underwhelmed on single performerance and Taylor's second single is stalling? D) if we want to compare anything, this should be compared to the Beyoncé era. There's no interviews, only promotion or performance has been SNL week, and Taylor is taking notes from that era and letting the music do its thing. Again, not fair to compare as Taylor is playing the radio game still, while Beyoncé chose to avoid that too. It's irrelevant to compare this to eras that maximized the media, and all promotional avenues pertaining to their singles and album release. Taylor has scaled back on everything and still outsold them all so I just can't wrap my head around the comparison. Sorry. PS: The fact it's her sixth album is beyond relevant. In my lifetime, I've never seen a pop star still be at this level of success this far into their career. Everyone I've loved (Gaga and Katy included) have fizzled by the third album in their career. My point is that we're comparing her album and stats to people that she already surpassed with 1989. If that's the only comparison between these eras that you see, read my post that started this whole mess: I think album sales won't hold up as long as her past eras but I'm almost certain that her tour will sell out. It's still uncanny how similar this era is performing to the Born This Way and Prism eras. 1. All three eras were after massive, iconic eras 2. First single flies up the charts to #1 with a huge amount of hype (Born This Way, Roar, Look What You Made Me Do) 3. Second single underperforms compared to past success (Judas, Unconditionally, Ready For It) and is overshadowed by an album track that the GP prefers more (The Edge Of Glory, Dark Horse, End Game). The album tracks ends up being a successful third single. 4. First week album sales are the biggest first week sales in that artist's career (Born This Way, Prism, Reputation) If this very similar trajectory continues, End Game will end up being successful. Followed by a fourth single that fans are certain would smash but ends up underperforming (You & I, Birthday), followed by a fifth single that flops.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Nov 25, 2017 22:10:16 GMT -5
If we’re comparing where Taylor is in her Reputation era to Katy and Gaga in their Prism and Born This Way eras, this is the point where Judas and Unconditionally are the second single currently on pop radio but radio stations and the GP are playing The Edge Of Glory and Dark Horse instead even though it was never announced as a single. No one was worrying about Katy or Gaga at that point in their respective eras because there was an obvious smash coming along with an announcement of highly anticipated tour (which Taylor will obviously have.) Sorry if I'm new at this but what stats are you using to say that Ready For It is comparable to Unconditionally and Judas? The ones I'm looking it have Ready For It at #4, Unconditionally at #14 and Judas at #10. Unconditionally and Judas were both released as the second single from their respective albums. Unconditionally peaked at #8 on CHR and Judas peaked at #15 on CHR and from the looks of it, Ready For It will probably peak somewhere in between. While each of these three songs were being played on radio, an album track (Dark Horse, The Edge Of Glory, End Game) was making much bigger gains than the current second single. Radio and the GP pretty much push that album track to become the third single. I’m not looking at specific peaks but the general trends and trajectories of these eras and how similar they have been.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Nov 25, 2017 22:37:30 GMT -5
Wait, why does this album have to be anybody's anything?
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Nov 25, 2017 22:44:37 GMT -5
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Nov 25, 2017 22:54:45 GMT -5
Wow. s**t really has to match up 1-to-1, freckle-to-freckle for you guys to even consider it a comparison of merit. A damn mess. This goes back to y’all’s inability to contextualize anything to Taylor relatively.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 26, 2017 0:13:04 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm new at this but what stats are you using to say that Ready For It is comparable to Unconditionally and Judas? The ones I'm looking it have Ready For It at #4, Unconditionally at #14 and Judas at #10. Unconditionally and Judas were both released as the second single from their respective albums. Unconditionally peaked at #8 on CHR and Judas peaked at #15 on CHR and from the looks of it, Ready For It will probably peak somewhere in between. While each of these three songs were being played on radio, an album track (Dark Horse, The Edge Of Glory, End Game) was making much bigger gains than the current second single. Radio and the GP pretty much push that album track to become the third single. I’m not looking at specific peaks but the general trends and trajectories of these eras and how similar they have been. ok but what is the relevance of all those similarities? I can see some of those points - Huge prior eras means that the next era will be met with so much anticipation that the first single and first week sales will be quite exceptional regardless of quality. Seems logical - first week sales for Teenage Dream, Fearless and The Fame were not that exceptional because the preceding albums were more moderate successes so they weren't as highly anticipated as subsequent albums. The quality of the album will mostly be reflected in the sales numbers for the subsequent weeks and in the success of the subsequent singles. However... Pretty sure Taylor had a lot more negative PR prior to this album - Kimye drama, Calvin Harris/Hiddleston drama, Katy drama, shade from feminists and for not speaking out against Trump, fight against streaming and accusations of greed. I wasn't paying too close attention to Gaga or Katy in the lead up to those albums but I'm pretty sure they didn't have that kind of bad press to contend with. So while the initial success of BTW and Prism could be explained away by positive momentum and good press heading into the era that's definitely a less clear cut case to make for Taylor. Lack of success of Ready For It can be explained by the awkward timing too, from my understanding, LWYMMD was supposed to be released earlier but was delayed due to the trial. That likely pushed back the filming and production for Ready For It video too. However, they were still committed to release Ready For It at a certain date due to the ABC deal. So Ready For It got released while it was being overshadowed by LWYMMD which held it back and by the time the video was released it probably lost momentum. What was momentum like on Judas and Unconditionally 1.5 months after they entered the charts?
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Oprah
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Post by Oprah on Nov 26, 2017 0:17:45 GMT -5
Wow. s**t really has to match up 1-to-1, freckle-to-freckle for you guys to even consider it a comparison of merit. A damn mess. This goes back to y’all’s inability to contextualize anything to Taylor relatively. Right? All these ladies trying to nitpick when the similarities are as obvious as Trump's toupee.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Nov 26, 2017 1:22:07 GMT -5
first week sales for Teenage Dream, Fearless and The Fame were not that exceptional because the preceding albums were more moderate successes Ignoring that Fearless sold a buttload in its first week off a huge debut album. What album was The Fame following up exactly?
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Nov 26, 2017 3:14:09 GMT -5
first week sales for Teenage Dream, Fearless and The Fame were not that exceptional because the preceding albums were more moderate successes Ignoring that Fearless sold a buttload in its first week off a huge debut album. What album was The Fame following up exactly? 💀 Why are you like tbis?😂😂😂😂😂
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beachboi69
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Post by beachboi69 on Nov 26, 2017 3:26:42 GMT -5
Reputation sold +2m worldwide in the 1st week for the record. And let's not pretend BTW got 1.1m because Gaga was as popular as Taylor, the album was being sold for less than 3$, it even made Billboard include a new rule in the charts. Reputation sold 1.62 million copies first week globally acording to UWC . Unless you are talking about shipments. It's a good number regardless it's probably getting close to 2 million after week two.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 26, 2017 4:06:30 GMT -5
DEAD at the Swities bringing up BTW’s 99 cent deal when Taylor is literally encouraging her fans to by 12 copies of reputation at full price
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born
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Post by born on Nov 26, 2017 4:13:11 GMT -5
This thread is just messy as the song it was made for and the single rollout lol. Y'all are reaching when you should just forget about what happened so far and focus on the next singles.
PS: "Prism" is Katy's best album, enough with the sh*t talk
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 26, 2017 4:18:10 GMT -5
at full price Yet that doesn’t discredit my point in the slightest. damn it I was trying to be witty
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Nov 26, 2017 4:32:09 GMT -5
This thread is just messy as the song it was made for and the single rollout lol. Y'all are reaching when you should just forget about what happened so far and focus on the next singles. PS: "Prism" is Katy's best album, enough with the sh*t talk / end thread with this tea
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Nov 26, 2017 4:59:11 GMT -5
Wait, why does this album have to be anybody's anything? This is what I don’t get. Also, this era started in August (or two weeks ago if you count the album). Gaga’s ended six/five years ago and Katy’s three. It’s not fair to compare an era based on assumptions of what will happen in the future to eras that have had happened in full already and have probably been discussed over and over again. This is also based on, in my eyes, zero fact. Sure there are facts like the stats and stuff, but really this is all subjective and all these stats can be fit into any narrative a poster wishes. There is no way to prove any side (especially since, again, this era is max three months old), and this discussion is just going to go around and around and around until either the thread is locked or people finally give up and move on, likely to be revived in another thread in a few weeks. See: any discussion on “what is a hit?” and “what is a one hit wonder?”
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Nov 26, 2017 4:59:51 GMT -5
What kind of s**t tea is that, Earl Grey (aka dishwater)? :sip2:
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Nov 26, 2017 6:21:15 GMT -5
Oh come on. I hope this isn't the label trying to kill this off for 'End Game', you have a window where you can get away with both if you just push this a little bit further for at least top 10! :sip2: POP:13 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 8987 8527 460 47.199 -52 Spins -153 Bullet -0.170 Audience HOT AC:12 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 3206 2749 457 19.485 +49 Spins +35 Bullet +0.354 Audience RHYTHMIC:43 43 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 651 574 77 1.941 +5 Spins -8 Bullet -0.005 Audience
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Nov 26, 2017 6:55:03 GMT -5
POP:13 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 8987 8527 460 47.199 -52 Spins -153 Bullet -0.170 Audience HOT AC:12 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 3206 2749 457 19.485 +49 Spins +35 Bullet +0.354 Audience RHYTHMIC:TBA Yaaaaas! Faaaall
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Nov 26, 2017 7:35:52 GMT -5
I'm so done with this argument but I'd like to say that selling an album at 99 cents is not the same as encouraging fans to buy 12 copies of the album for full price. And I literally don't know any swiftie who has bought more than 2 copies.
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born
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Post by born on Nov 26, 2017 8:55:08 GMT -5
I'm glad this is finally dying cause it ruined the era in my eyes. However, they got it to #12. Can't they just shut up and push it to the Top 10 a la LWYMMD then kill it the following week?
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Nov 26, 2017 9:05:40 GMT -5
#11 tonight after Liam Payne goes recurrent. It would make so much sense to push it next week to hit the top 10, and then let it go.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Nov 26, 2017 10:19:48 GMT -5
This is what I don’t get. Also, this era started in August (or two weeks ago if you count the album). Gaga’s ended six/five years ago and Katy’s three. It’s not fair to compare an era based on assumptions of what will happen in the future to eras that have had happened in full already and have probably been discussed over and over again.This is also based on, in my eyes, zero fact. Sure there are facts like the stats and stuff, but really this is all subjective and all these stats can be fit into any narrative a poster wishes. There is no way to prove any side (especially since, again, this era is max three months old), and this discussion is just going to go around and around and around until either the thread is locked or people finally give up and move on, likely to be revived in another thread in a few weeks. See: any discussion on “what is a hit?” and “what is a one hit wonder?” Yes it is. That's literally how predictions work. I was comparing this era to Born This Way since day one. I said the lead single is behaving very similar to BTW/HIAM and based on this info, it'll start falling hard in 3-4 weeks. And it did, despite everyone calling me a troll. Because that's how predictions work, you compare current trends to old trends, and assume what will happen in the future based on the old trends. How else do you think anything can be predicted? Any time anyone does a prediction, they're subconsciously comparing the song/artist/era to previous song/artist/eras. You use historical probabilities to derive probabilities for the future. This isn't some Pulse drama. There is a lot of money in the Taylor brand. I'd bet anything that there is a large team of people whose entire job is looking at data on Taylor's career, and comparing it to older data to figure out what to do if they want things to go well. Looking at comments, articles, Spotify, Youtube, everything. Is Taylor starting to burn on people the way Gaga did? What type of comments were people posting when Gaga started to fall? How fast did her album fall? How fast is reputation falling? Why is it falling with 80% instead of 70%? Can we look at Britney's career to take some notes? How did Shania's country audience react to her pop music? Surely she must have a team of psychologists, statisticians and music executives analysing her every move together, just like we're doing in this thread. Especially since this is Taylor. If she's as calculated as we know she is, she would personally hire a team of people to give her an update on every aspect of her career every single day. Sorry, I was tired when writing that so I probably didn't explain my point as well as intended. It is fair comparing song to song (and you were right with Born This Way), but I think comparing an era which has only just begun to eras which have been done for years and have had years of analysis already is unfair. Or at least to the detail some people are going to. Someone suggested if End Game becomes big, the fourth single will have an eh performance and the fifth will flop, simply because Prism was this way. This feels to me like excessive forcing of what is happening to fit a specific narrative. End Game isn't a hit right now or even a guaranteed one. Sure, it is getting good pop updates (like Ready For It was) and it has been selling decently, but it hasn't been smashing, and if anything it doesn't even look like it is having an 'unfair'impact on Ready For It, which bar today, is still getting decent pop updates and is holding quite well on iTunes. There is no suggestion here that the label is holding back End Game so they can push Ready For It. So it doesn't fit the narrative of Unconditionally VS Dark Horse. Radio and fans haven't been trying hard to get End Game to be the single. And it is important to note, in my eyes, that Ready For It has had one of the most unusual runs I have seen ever. The point I meant to make was that there is a lot of stretching of what is going on right now to make this era fit to be other eras. Her Prism era, her Born This Way era. As others have noted, this is her sixth album, regardless of whether it is only her second pop album. That, to me, already puts her in a completely different boat to Gaga and Katy and their eras being discussed here. I completely get the points you made re: Look What You Made Me Do, but I just find trying to fit this era into the mould of another era.. pointless, really. Or at least in this instance. But that's just me I'm also pretty busy with studying now so my tolerance for unnecessary conversation is quite low, so who knows, in a few months time my opinion could be the exact same as yours ~okay, I am making this too much about me now, especially since I'm not even part of this discussion~ However, I am going to leave this discussion here. As I said above - "There is no way to prove any side (especially since, again, this era is max three months old), and this discussion is just going to go around and around and around until either the thread is locked or people finally give up and move on, likely to be revived in another thread in a few weeks."
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Oprah
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Post by Oprah on Nov 26, 2017 10:49:32 GMT -5
Codex every time a Taylor song gets a shit update
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Nov 26, 2017 10:55:05 GMT -5
Amazing
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 26, 2017 11:40:08 GMT -5
first week sales for Teenage Dream, Fearless and The Fame were not that exceptional because the preceding albums were more moderate successes Ignoring that Fearless sold a buttload in its first week off a huge debut album. What album was The Fame following up exactly? My wording was not the most precise but that doesn't disprove my point. Fearless first week sales were great but definitely a notch below the following albums, just like her debut was successful but still a notch below the albums followed. BTW had Gaga's the biggest first week sales by far and also followed what was her biggest album by far. One of the Boys was pretty successful, but not as successful as Teenage Dream and first week sales for Prism were bigger than for Teenage Dream as a result. All in all Katy's first week sales are pretty weak but maybe she just doesn't have as much of a loyal fanbase to jump on the record as soon as it comes out without even listening to it like with Gaga and Taylor. I also think that having a lacklustre single (assuming that its chart performance reflects quality and not the awkward way it was released) is less likely to lose people when it's coming on the tail of 5 successful albums vs 1-2.
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Post by Az Paynter on Nov 27, 2017 7:57:37 GMT -5
POP: 13 11 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 9028 8619 409 47.415
+41 Spins -51 Bullet +0.216 Audience
HOT AC: 12 12 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 3254 2833 421 19.611
+48 Spins -36 Bullet +0.126 Audience
RHYTHMIC: 43 42 TAYLOR SWIFT Ready For It 646 594 52 1.969
-5 Spins -25 Bullet +0.028 Audience
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