Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Jun 28, 2018 17:20:52 GMT -5
I see you avoided the question. But that's fine, you don't have to like the music. But how about we avoid these false narratives that Beyonce is making nothing but trap music or it all sounds the same? Even an untrained ear can tear that statement apart in seconds. All you have to say is Beyonce isn't making the music YOU want her to make and leave it at that. I stand by what I said, something many others have also observed. Her music has sounded the same since self titled, deriving elements from trap with a few spoken word songs; often void of melody and rarely sung. You stand by what you said, yet you can't back it up with actual songs or facts? That's a tenuous position to take. How many spoken word songs are there on S/T and Lemonade? How many trap songs are there? Please, make a list, because I've listened to these albums extensively and have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't like the melodies, that's a position you can take. If you don't like the production, that's a position you can take. If you prefer Beyonce making more classic sounding R&B, that's a position you can take. But her music all being trap and sounding the same is kind of ridiculous given the scope of these last two albums.
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Jun 28, 2018 17:31:22 GMT -5
This has been dissected and proven incorrect how many times in this thread? Do you even know what trap music is? There's one of two possibilities here, either you haven't listened to the music or you don't even have a basic grasp of musical genre or style. Please, list the songs on S/T and Lemonade that are trap. I need to see this extensive list. I've listened to both albums and would rather not put my ears through that again. Some people like the albums, others don't, and that's okay. Not everyone is going to have the same taste in music. This post makes you look like a troll. If you make statements, back them up. Don’t voice random bs, then side-step when you’re asked to defend your opinion. This is a good way to be tuned-out on a forum. I don’t like this project/most of Jay/B’s collabs, but Lemonade is the most diverse record she’s done and one of the biggest risks a star of her caliber has done in recent memory. From piano driven, reagge, rock, country/blues, gospel and yes, one trap song (Formation). It’s cool if you don’t like it, but don’t get the work twisted either
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Jun 28, 2018 17:43:04 GMT -5
I stand by what I said, something many others have also observed. Her music has sounded the same since self titled, deriving elements from trap with a few spoken word songs; often void of melody and rarely sung. You stand by what you said, yet you can't back it up with actual songs or facts? That's a tenuous position to take. How many spoken word songs are there on S/T and Lemonade? How many trap songs are there? Please, make a list, because I've listened to these albums extensively and have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't like the melodies, that's a position you can take. If you don't like the production, that's a position you can take. If you prefer Beyonce making more classic sounding R&B, that's a position you can take. But her music all being trap and sounding the same is kind of ridiculous given the scope of these last two albums. You're correct. I don't like the production, I don't like the melodies (wherever they are) and I enjoy Beyoncé most when she sings R&B music; I'm not going to be convinced that there is anything wrong with that either. This conversation reminds me of when Mariah fans from debut to daydream say they miss "old Mariah" and lambs used to get up in arms. There's nothing wrong with preferring a certain sound from an artist. I'm not going to revisit these albums because you need a list, they bored me the first time and I am already bored right now as it is. The first song that comes to mind was one she did in which she told women to "bow down bitches"-- it had obvious trap elements, #Flawless. 7/11 is also an obvious one. Both albums are filled with spoken word pieces. If you would like a list, make it yourself and send it to me; I'd love to see this from an unwavering fan's perspective. ****Also, to be clear, I never even said all songs were trap, or all songs were spoken word, I said the two albums sound the same. All songs probably aren’t trap, but that genre as well as hip hop and PBR&B that Beyoncé adopted for both albums are what made them sound similar, TO ME. None of her other albums sound even remotely similar to me now that I think about it, only those two...and this one.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Jun 28, 2018 18:00:38 GMT -5
As I stated, you preferring classic R&B Beyonce is a position you can take. And that's valid. That's literally all you had to say.
But that's not the initial position you took. And that's why I had to take a flame thrower to your argument.
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Jun 28, 2018 18:51:45 GMT -5
As I stated, you preferring classic R&B Beyonce is a position you can take. And that's valid. That's literally all you had to say. But that's not the initial position you took. And that's why I had to take a flame thrower to your argument. Looking back on our conversation, I want to say that I agree with you Ling Ling. To explain where I am coming from, sometimes when someone really likes an artist's material, and for me I loved 4, and B'Day used to be my high school soundtrack, and that artist moves away from that sound, they may feel a certain type of way when it appears they have no desire to return. I do prefer classic R&B Beyoncé and I hope that one day she will revisit it.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Jun 28, 2018 19:55:01 GMT -5
To be fair the most high profile songs from her last several albums have tended to be the least melodic, most brash I guess. I don’t know what word to use lol. The more traditional sounding melodic songs and the ballads have remained album tracks for the most part. So I can see how an overall impression that Beyoncé is only doing “hard” songs now could form. But clearly the albums themselves do have plenty of variety. Not a lot of classicly catchy R&B crossover though. Sorry Relaxing Cup. Come to think of it self titled had some nice throwback 90s style neo soul ish songs but that’s probably as close as we’ve gotten lately.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Jun 28, 2018 20:08:12 GMT -5
I am glad this came to a resolution so peacefully, but...you cite the noisy, messy B'Day, which also includes "spoken word" (examples: Ring The Alarm, Green Light (with a verse that is pretty flat melodically), and Upgrade U) as one of her best. But yeah, I get it: you prefer melodies and REAL singing. She had that on the DIL album, a few songs on B'Day, I Am Becky, 9/14 songs on self-titled, and...9/12 songs on Lemonade.
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Jun 28, 2018 20:23:02 GMT -5
Lol, she could keep Ring The Alarm but I’ll defend “B’Day” to the GRAVE. That album is jam packed full of cuts, most of which you can dance to at the club.
Deja Vu Get Me Bodied Freakum Dress Green Light Suga Mama Upgrade U Kitty Kat
They’re all so good. You put Get Me Bodied extended version on at the club and everyone drops their drinks and goes running to sweep the floor wit it.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Jun 28, 2018 20:25:13 GMT -5
Ah, I'm starting to get it now. You either like melodic, R&B Beyonce or straight-up go-go girl club Beyonce! There, that is so clear! I ain't mad at that!
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Jun 28, 2018 21:46:29 GMT -5
Lol, she could keep Ring The Alarm but I’ll defend “B’Day” to the GRAVE. That album is jam packed full of cuts, most of which you can dance to at the club. Deja Vu Get Me Bodied Freakum Dress Green Light Suga Mama Upgrade U Kitty Kat They’re all so good. You put Get Me Bodied extended version on at the club and everyone drops their drinks and goes running to sweep the floor wit it. PAT YO WEAVE LADIES PAT PAT PAT YOUR WEAVE LADIES
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 22:50:00 GMT -5
Formation and 7/11 are trap-influenced, although both songs do some really different things with the melodic structure (as it were) that take them in a decidedly non-trap direction. Formation especially is so drenched in her N'awlins roots, I feel like I should be at a Mardi Gras parade just thinking about it. I've seen Flawless and Drunk In Love also described as such, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with that for those two (the Bow Down intro, maybe, but the Flawless part flips into something else quite different). If DIL is trappish, it is in the same way that Dark Horse is; which is to say, it's essentially an urban-pop song that appropriated basic trap elements and commoditized them for mass consumption.
My biggest beef with the insistence that Beyonce 'needs to stop with trap music' is that it's an unnecessary insult to trap music, which is broader (in terms of production) than some seem to be willing or even able to give it credit for - so quick to turn something they know nothing about into a pejorative when "Fuck Beyonce, this shit is wack" would have more than sufficed to express on's feelings without dragging a whole subgenre into it. For the pop fans that just like to hate on urban music carte blanche, the aforementioned Dark Horse is built on top of a trap beat, and Mariah's Obsessed instrumental would have been very much at home on an early T.I. album. So clearly it's not an issue with the musical concept of trap. Which by the way, is hella club-friendly too.
Go aaaaaaaalllll the way back to the early '90s and revisit some classic UGK or pre-Love Below Outkast. Or 2003-2008 T.I. (the singles from Trap Muzik and Urban Legend alone > > >). Jeezy or 2 Chainz, even. By the time you work your way back to present-day Future and Migos you will hardly believe you've been listening to the same subgenre. Trap music is not a monolith and it does not inherently lack melody or hooks - in fact the best trap songs often have a very distinct, sing-along hook, which contradicts the biggest complaint I see about 'urban' Beyonce, that she lacks these things. Never mind stopping with the trap music, Beyonce should start! I WISH Beyonce would release a true trap album, just the thought of it has me slayed a bit.
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Post by B****BetterGetNOSL333P on Jun 28, 2018 23:51:45 GMT -5
Why can't some of you just accept the fact that some of us don't like Beyonce's current music? I still like her but I don't appreciate her music since BEYONCE, and not to mention the horrible EVERYTHING IS LOVE album.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Jun 29, 2018 0:25:03 GMT -5
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Exclusive
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Post by Exclusive on Jun 29, 2018 1:00:58 GMT -5
Why can't some of you just accept the fact that some of us don't like Beyonce's current music? I still like her but I don't appreciate her music since BEYONCE, and not to mention the horrible EVERYTHING IS LOVE album.
If you hate the album so much why are you still here providing negative and unnecessary commentary? And who said that they can't accept that some of you don't like the album? Everyone has the right to their opinions, but why do you feel the need to push yours down everyone's throat?
Why can't you accept the fact that most of us actually like the album? Why can't you accept that most of us don't care about you think?
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Post by B****BetterGetNOSL333P on Jun 29, 2018 2:15:16 GMT -5
Why can't some of you just accept the fact that some of us don't like Beyonce's current music? I still like her but I don't appreciate her music since BEYONCE, and not to mention the horrible EVERYTHING IS LOVE album. If you hate the album so much why are you still here providing negative and unnecessary commentary? And who said that they can't accept that some of you don't like the album? Everyone has the right to their opinions, but why do you feel the need to push yours down everyone's throat?
Why can't you accept the fact that most of us actually like the album? Why can't you accept that most of us don't care about you think?When we say we hate it, you guys just keep saying we should love it blah blah blah. I have different opinions about the album, BEYONCE & LEMONADE, I get attack, saying that I should get a new earphone & stuff to re-listen to the albums, saying I have bad musical taste. Keep telling us that won't change the fact that we don't love it. We just want to express that we don't like it but still a fan of hers. GET THE POINT?
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jun 29, 2018 3:10:09 GMT -5
can you point it out who said you/we should love this album? lol go to atrl or stan twitter with your nonsense.
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jun 29, 2018 3:16:58 GMT -5
B has variety of genre/style in albums, just take what you want from there. lol if you want classic RnB style, selftitle have rocket or superpower, lemonade have all night.
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R.K.
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Post by R.K. on Jun 29, 2018 3:46:12 GMT -5
If you hate the album so much why are you still here providing negative and unnecessary commentary? And who said that they can't accept that some of you don't like the album? Everyone has the right to their opinions, but why do you feel the need to push yours down everyone's throat?
Why can't you accept the fact that most of us actually like the album? Why can't you accept that most of us don't care about you think?When we say we hate it, you guys just keep saying we should love it blah blah blah. I have different opinions about the album, BEYONCE & LEMONADE, I get attack, saying that I should get a new earphone & stuff to re-listen to the albums, saying I have bad musical taste. Keep telling us that won't change the fact that we don't love it. We just want to express that we don't like it but still a fan of hers. GET THE POINT? Literally no one is saying that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 5:21:18 GMT -5
Why can't some of you just accept the fact that some of us don't like Beyonce's current music? I still like her but I don't appreciate her music since BEYONCE, and not to mention the horrible EVERYTHING IS LOVE album. Well, some of us are actually trying to hold a discussion instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. Some of us aren't even talking directly to you, just sharing a thought related to the overall conversation and don't care if you respond. And some of us don't even give af enough to ask why you can't accept that, because what you do or don't accept has absolutely no bearing on what we accept or choose to talk about. HTH
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 29, 2018 10:05:16 GMT -5
My two cents, even if no one wants them: Bey peaked with self-titled. Lemonade has it's moments but remove the videos and a lot of it falls flat. Vocally she peaked with Sasha and 4, but that's probably because most of the songs since that aren't really designed to showcase vocals.
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Post by B****BetterGetNOSL333P on Jun 29, 2018 10:15:50 GMT -5
Why can't some of you just accept the fact that some of us don't like Beyonce's current music? I still like her but I don't appreciate her music since BEYONCE, and not to mention the horrible EVERYTHING IS LOVE album. Well, some of us are actually trying to hold a discussion instead of repeating the same thing over and over again. Some of us aren't even talking directly to you, just sharing a thought related to the overall conversation and don't care if you respond. And some of us don't even give af enough to ask why you can't accept that, because what you do or don't accept has absolutely no bearing on what we accept or choose to talk about. HTH Whatever. I made my point. End.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Jun 29, 2018 10:32:22 GMT -5
My two cents, even if no one wants them: Bey peaked with self-titled. Lemonade has it's moments but remove the videos and a lot of it falls flat. Vocally she peaked with Sasha and 4, but that's probably because most of the songs since that aren't really designed to showcase vocals. I feel like Bey's whole post 4 career has been about exploring new ways to be a music superstar... she's pretty much cut out radio, streaming services and even retail as gatekeepers, and relied on her skills as a performer (through live performance and videos as "art"). She has designed her releases to leverage that strength more than anything else. Everythng is accompanied by high quality visuals/performance and that goes straight to the public through TV and computer screens... and that is how the music is sold. The only radio she makes a real effort to please is urban. There is something in every release that caters to of-the-moment tastes of that market but that's about it. I really think "visual albums' and touring are her thing now. The songs almost feel like they are chosen on how cool of a visual they inspire. Which is not to say they are not bops but bops seem to no longer be the whole point.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jun 29, 2018 10:48:56 GMT -5
My two cents, even if no one wants them: Bey peaked with self-titled. Lemonade has it's moments but remove the videos and a lot of it falls flat. Vocally she peaked with Sasha and 4, but that's probably because most of the songs since that aren't really designed to showcase vocals. I feel like Bey's whole post 4 career has been about exploring new ways to be a music superstar... she's pretty much cut out radio, streaming services and even retail as gatekeepers, and relied on her skills as a performer (through live performance and videos as "art"). She has designed her releases to leverage that strength more than anything else. Everythng is accompanied by high quality visuals/performance and that goes straight to the public through TV and computer screens... and that is how the music is sold. The only radio she makes a real effort to please is urban. There is something in every release that caters to of-the-moment tastes of that market but that's about it. I really think "visual albums' and touring are her thing now. The songs almost feel like they are chosen on how cool of a visual they inspire. Which is not to say they are not bops but bops seem to no longer be the whole point. I agree on everything. I personally only use her urban/trap songs because the songs where she showcases her voice are not my cup of tea (mostly because I find her lower tone irritating) but I will still check out anything new from her because the marketing behind her releases is truly genius so I cave in into the excitement even if I know that I'll only like 1 or 2 songs out of the bunch. That said, I think she still cares about singles success. A lot actually. Pop radio not so much because she's over catering to that demographic but I have the sense that she thinks so highly of herself that she genuinely believes that every living person on earth will switch to Tidal just to listen to her stuff and thus give her that #1 hit. Hopefully the underperformance of EIL will humble her down a little bit.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Jun 29, 2018 10:52:47 GMT -5
My two cents, even if no one wants them: Bey peaked with self-titled. Lemonade has it's moments but remove the videos and a lot of it falls flat. Vocally she peaked with Sasha and 4, but that's probably because most of the songs since that aren't really designed to showcase vocals. I feel like Bey's whole post 4 career has been about exploring new ways to be a music superstar... she's pretty much cut out radio, streaming services and even retail as gatekeepers, and relied on her skills as a performer (through live performance and videos as "art"). She has designed her releases to leverage that strength more than anything else. Everythng is accompanied by high quality visuals/performance and that goes straight to the public through TV and computer screens... and that is how the music is sold. The only radio she makes a real effort to please is urban. There is something in every release that caters to of-the-moment tastes of that market but that's about it. I really think "visual albums' and touring are her thing now. The songs almost feel like they are chosen on how cool of a visual they inspire. Which is not to say they are not bops but bops seem to no longer be the whole point. Yeah. 4's relatively underwhelming performance (especially singles-wise) left her at a bit of a crossroads, where she could go back to safer material (i.e. Sasha Fierce Part II), or move into a more creatively fulfilling route that might not have worked commercially. In the end she took the second option and that's fine, but the change in direction will always create a division between fans who prefer the "old" Bey and people who love the "new" sound. Her efforts have managed to remain commercially successful through wise strategies like the surprise release of self-titled and the visual film/Becky controversy of Lemonade, but, especially singles-wise, she hasn't reached the same heights as before. Some people might blame Pop radio, but you don't need radio anymore to have a hit (ask the current #1 song which has nearly zero radio support, while massive radio hit "Delicate" struggles to even reach top 20). Especially with Lemonade and Everything is Love, it just feels like for every good idea her team has (let's do a visual film! surprise release!), they also kill the project's chances of having a longer chart-life with dumb stuff (let's do a TIDAL exclusive! let's do a joint album with Jay, even if at least 50% of the Beyhive hates him!)
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on Jun 29, 2018 11:14:03 GMT -5
That said, I think she still cares about singles success. A lot actually. Pop radio not so much because she's over catering to that demographic but I have the sense that she thinks so highly of herself that she genuinely believes that every living person on earth will switch to Tidal just to listen to her stuff and thus give her that #1 hit. Hopefully the underperformance of EIL will humble her down a little bit. Her efforts have managed to remain commercially successful through wise strategies like the surprise release of self-titled and the visual film/Becky controversy of Lemonade, but, especially singles-wise, she hasn't reached the same heights as before. Some people might blame Pop radio, but you don't need radio anymore to have a hit (ask the current #1 song which has nearly zero radio support, while massive radio hit "Delicate" struggles to even reach top 20). Especially with Lemonade and Everything is Love, it just feels like for every good idea her team has (let's do a visual film! surprise release!), they also kill the project's chances of having a longer chart-life with dumb stuff (let's do a TIDAL exclusive! let's do a joint album with Jay, even if at least 50% of the Beyhive hates him!) I think you both raise good points. To me, the Tidal thing is what's holding her back from having bigger hit singles. She would be killing iton streaming without it. I get she's tryng to leverage her fame to launch a streaming service she controls, but in the end, Tidal is not offering enough to compete with Spotify and Apple music for a higher price. They've been trying for years and it's not working. Also since Jay's cheating has been revealed, he may actually end up hurting her brand. Knowing Beyonce's ambition it will be interesting to see how that effects her marriage if the trend holds. They've always been mutually beneficial career wise before, but now thats in doubt. After this tour is over her next big thing is The Lion King. We'll see how she plays this. It's a chance to get away from The Carters and just be Bey singing soundtrack show tunes that show off her voice, and having photo ops with Blue Ivy and the twins. I think she has to be careful not to have The Lion King turn into The Bey Show (after all, her character is not the point of the movie) but if she plays her cards right it might be a good project that allows everyone a bit of a breather.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 11:41:30 GMT -5
I could easily say I prefer her first 3-4 albums over the most recent 2, but that's also not a fair assessment because I haven't given the latter the amount of attention I gave her first 4. Nor were they as prominent on the radio like the first few. I may prefer a more R&B/Pop Beyoncé, but that probably includes bias based on what first caught my attention.
Her last 2 albums both have some standout, best-of-beyonce-playlist-ready songs on them. And the more I've listened, the more I enjoy the albums. Not every track is my thing, but, for me, it's a matter of letting things sink in over time, rather than flat out rejecting them.
I've grown to LOVE half of BEYONCE, with Jealous, Mine and XO as faves.
Lemonade is still being sipped like a slow sangria. Sorry is such a great song.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 13:22:00 GMT -5
GET OFF HER DICK she is iconic and this song is better than anything your favs have to offer. Yalll just need VITAMIN D
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Post by adamalterlago on Jun 29, 2018 17:27:25 GMT -5
I dont care what anyone says, ST is the album that will be her landmark. Nothing before or after (yet) will touch it. Thats why she self titled the shit. Decades from now, it will be a landmark album as it already is, even more so than Lemonade.
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Post by collegedropout on Jun 29, 2018 20:11:39 GMT -5
My two cents, even if no one wants them: Bey peaked with self-titled. Lemonade has it's moments but remove the videos and a lot of it falls flat. Vocally she peaked with Sasha and 4, but that's probably because most of the songs since that aren't really designed to showcase vocals. I feel like Bey's whole post 4 career has been about exploring new ways to be a music superstar... she's pretty much cut out radio, streaming services and even retail as gatekeepers, and relied on her skills as a performer (through live performance and videos as "art"). She has designed her releases to leverage that strength more than anything else. Everythng is accompanied by high quality visuals/performance and that goes straight to the public through TV and computer screens... and that is how the music is sold. The only radio she makes a real effort to please is urban. There is something in every release that caters to of-the-moment tastes of that market but that's about it. I really think "visual albums' and touring are her thing now. The songs almost feel like they are chosen on how cool of a visual they inspire. Which is not to say they are not bops but bops seem to no longer be the whole point. I think this is spot on. It's great for today, but I still think you need HIT SONGS to keep legacy thriving. Lets look at Whitney Houston since she is dead. She did some more interesting/unique projects in her later years like that Waiting To Exhale and gospel soundtrack. But today no one gives a crap about them. They know her for those 80s hits, The Bodyguard, and some of the My Love is Your Love singles. I'd say you could say something similar to any artist. When Bey is 60, what if all people remember her by is Destinys Child, Crazy in Love, Single Ladies, and Halo? IMO she should have tried to have a couple more big hits.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Jul 3, 2018 8:34:02 GMT -5
Physical coming this Friday 7/6.
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