baluba
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Post by baluba on Aug 12, 2006 13:00:11 GMT -5
THE US IS THE BIGGEST MUSIC MARKET? LOL Right - if all of Europe and Asia exploded and sunk into the water, maybe... Eurovision gets 600 million viewers these days. Christina Aguilera would not be one of the highest selling yet... The ones I posted above are probably actually pretty close (although in no particular order) to the biggest sellers. Plus, you guys are totally biased - all coming from the U.S. - where you don't even realize that HALF the music you listen to comes from Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany and other countries and you all just think that all of the rest of the world listens to music from the U.S. and that they don't have their own, lol. Also, for singles sales' markets - the UK and Japan are both so FAR ahead of the U.S., that we will NEVER come close to threatening them. In 2005 both Europe and America sold teh same number of albums (660m) but Europe sold far many more singles. This year the IFPI predicts the US market to fall to 600/620m albums, and the EU to stay at about650m, , but the singles 9digital) market in the uS is rising quickly. The rest of the wold sells about 800m albums a year (total of about 2.2billion)
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Post by muscleclub on Aug 12, 2006 15:59:40 GMT -5
Worldwide...This would be a good estimate of the 31 Highest in no particular order... Anna Vissi ... :o
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Longshot
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Post by Longshot on Aug 12, 2006 16:25:35 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind is that the US market is more cohesive than the European market. Local acts do much better than foreign acts. What sells well in the UK may not do so well in France or Spain.
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COW COW COW COW COW COW COW
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Post by COW COW COW COW COW COW COW on Aug 13, 2006 13:34:29 GMT -5
Worldwide...This would be a good estimate of the 31 Highest in no particular order... Anna Vissi ... :o What? She is undoubtedly...At least ur happy and surprised...
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colson
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Post by colson on Aug 15, 2006 8:02:15 GMT -5
Damn, why are people comparing all of Europe, which is a continent, to all of the US which is a country? It's ridiculous.
The U.S. by far is the biggest music market followed by Japan.
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Post by threeonthetree on Aug 21, 2006 3:38:40 GMT -5
THE US IS THE BIGGEST MUSIC MARKET? LOL Right - if all of Europe and Asia exploded and sunk into the water, maybe... Eurovision gets 600 million viewers these days. Christina Aguilera would not be one of the highest selling yet... The ones I posted above are probably actually pretty close (although in no particular order) to the biggest sellers. Plus, you guys are totally biased - all coming from the U.S. - where you don't even realize that HALF the music you listen to comes from Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany and other countries and you all just think that all of the rest of the world listens to music from the U.S. and that they don't have their own, lol. Also, for singles sales' markets - the UK and Japan are both so FAR ahead of the U.S., that we will NEVER come close to threatening them. In 2005 both Europe and America sold teh same number of albums (660m) but Europe sold far many more singles. This year the IFPI predicts the US market to fall to 600/620m albums, and the EU to stay at about650m, , but the singles 9digital) market in the uS is rising quickly. The rest of the wold sells about 800m albums a year (total of about 2.2billion) if you want to be credible, post links as your source. You are quite known to fabricate figures like these, and it is amazing America is getting compared to the whole Europe, just shows how big USA is.
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COW COW COW COW COW COW COW
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Post by COW COW COW COW COW COW COW on Aug 23, 2006 10:57:34 GMT -5
Yeah - I'm quite known on this board to fabricate figures like these. Right. You know so much about my history on this board, junior member - 166 posts, and you joined like four months ago.
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Aug 28, 2006 9:29:11 GMT -5
In 2005 both Europe and America sold teh same number of albums (660m) but Europe sold far many more singles. This year the IFPI predicts the US market to fall to 600/620m albums, and the EU to stay at about650m, , but the singles (digital) market in the uS is rising quickly. The rest of the wold sells about 800m albums a year (total of about 2.2billion) if you want to be credible, post links as your source. You are quite known to fabricate figures like these, and it is amazing America is getting compared to the whole Europe, just shows how big USA is. www.ifpi.orgSearrch US market and world market (you'll find bulletins with 660m for US and 2.2 billion world). You don't get more official than that. I wonder if before making spurious allegations you can find a single case of your alleged fabrication of data. I challenge you to go through all my posts. If you can't, you owe me an apology. Found 2003 I may look for 2005 if I have time (we all know the US market has sunk steadily) www.ifpi.org/site-content/library/worldsales2003.pdf pages 8-9for sales (data on previous pages is in money, not units) Note that even 'far back' as 2003 (UK and France market have seen record sales since, and the German market has recovered). Europe sold 61 million albums MORE than the US and 108 million singles more (10 times as many singles sold in Europe than in the US almost exactly). Europe also sold almost 10 times as many music cassettes as the US. That's old data, but you get the proportion... 2004 partial data (MC missing, updates from many countries missing and some countries totally missing- check article and chart) www.ifpi.org/site-content/library/worldsales2004.pdfPage 11- 2004 saw Europe go just below the US with albums (though a handful of countries are missing ,and the MC market is missing), the US holding up, the rest of the world increasing its silce considerably . (Europe had financial and piracy problems that year), also there are a few countries missing from the IFPI data (not conmparable in the chart). Data takes time to collect it appears. Singles, Europe still outsells the US 10 to 1. 2005 is not ready yet, but US sales slumped to 660m, which you can match with Europe (should be 800m) and the EU (a bit less). They have not been collected in one bulletin yet, but you can find yourself more articles to the point. I may look again... UK sold 80m more than in 2004 (244m) France had a 7% increase etc... Markets go up and down, you'll find in 2005 the US were just about 30% it may go up, but the range is about 1/3 US, 1/3 EU, 1/3 rest of the world. In 2003, Europe sold more albums and singles than the uS, in 2004 the US sold more albums than Europe, but Europe far outsold the US's singles etc... The two top each other all the time, but they remain about the same, 1/3 each...With a lot of growing markets around the world (you may notice that Mexico and Brazil might as well take Canada's place in the 'chart' very soon, if they haven't already, and Russia is growing steadily too, and a comparatively big market). I hope this puts an end to the discussion. We could go into analysing trends (growing markets and sinnking ones). US is 1/3 of the world market well afr from those who say it's more than half (deluded!) That's album. Its share of singles in minimal (though it will grow sensibly this year thanks to digitals) the same applies to music cassettes. The EU has another 1/3 of the market. The US WAS 50% of the market when the Beatles were around. Yes, the US sells many more records per capita than many other countries (though Ithe uK sells twice as many per capita, and Denmark loads more) as some EU markets are relatively new, some are heavily plagued by plagiarism (in Italy, I think there are 3 pirate copies for every legal record or so, check on the ifpi website, I'm not gonna do this as well for you). France had a huge surge in 2005 thanks to its fight to piracy. Even countries like Russia have a huge pirate market (I think it's 5 billion a year worldwide or so, which is hundreds of millions of pirate records). Maybe if we added these (joking) the share of some countries would grow quite a lot 9certaily it would quadruple for Italy!) Unfortunately, artists don't get paid for pirate copies. Oh, I was forgetting, you owe me an apology, unless you think the IFPI are making up data.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Aug 28, 2006 19:40:00 GMT -5
*scatches head*
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iMoan
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Post by iMoan on Aug 28, 2006 21:24:59 GMT -5
Umm wtf? lmao.. I'm not going to even bother.
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colson
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Post by colson on Aug 29, 2006 23:22:41 GMT -5
LOL...Exactly!!
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Aug 30, 2006 11:25:52 GMT -5
Back to the topic...
As sources go...
#1- Around 300m betwen albums and singles (approx)..
Madonna
#2-5 Around 200m between albums and singles Celine Dion Mariah Carey Whitney Houston Alla Pugacheva
Next- more than 100m between singles and albums Shania Twain Donna Summer Dionne Warwick Diana Ross Cher Dollly Parton
Next 70/100m records (albums plus singles) Britney Spears Dalida Mina Mazzini
Next, more than 50m between albums and singles Annie Lennox Alanis Morissette Anne Murray Blondie Enya Olivia Newton-John Janet Jackson Kylie Petula Clarke Sade Aretha Franklin (?)
There should be some missing, but for what I know these are the data available.
Wonder why Nana Mouskouri is missing? Her record company declares 'more than 200 between gold and platinum discs' which is very different from 200m records, as platinums in Greexce are given for 20K (where she's sold most of her records) and in Turkey for 40K so, even if they were 200 Turkish platinums, it would add up to a maximum of 8 million records, not 200...
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COW COW COW COW COW COW COW
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Post by COW COW COW COW COW COW COW on Aug 30, 2006 11:37:14 GMT -5
Female singers...Sade wouldn't count, they are a band.
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COW COW COW COW COW COW COW
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Post by COW COW COW COW COW COW COW on Aug 30, 2006 11:39:39 GMT -5
Also, the Beatles are from the U.K., not the U.S.
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 23, 2006 14:29:49 GMT -5
Female singers...Sade wouldn't count, they are a band. Sade Adou is a singer, not a group. She did have a group, but she was and is classed as a solo act (also wrote all her songs etc...). Actually much less of a collaboration than most solos nowadays, as she was one of those who were in control of their music and career (yes! that was possible in the 80s...)
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 23, 2006 14:34:35 GMT -5
Damn, why are people comparing all of Europe, which is a continent, to all of the US which is a country? It's ridiculous. The U.S. by far is the biggest music market followed by Japan. The EU is known as a single market. plus the second biggest market has always been and still is the Uk, not japan (check IFPI above). This is what the IFPI say etc... The EU being a 'common market' is a very old thing, maybe someone should update their history books to after Maastricht... In a lot of ways, the EU market is composite (has lots of 'national' artists) but in another way it's much more uniform than the US: Records in the EU have a much quicker distribution than in the US. Radio play is quicker , and for international artists, much more uniform than in the US. Even promotion is much quicker and simpler than in the US. Communication between EU countries in both media and financial terms is much more uniform than is from NY to small US towns. The US itself has 'regional' market pockets. Think about Texas and NY and you'll see that the two markets are about as uniform as the UK and Spain... Where the US is even MORE fragmented than the EU is in media and communication. Therefore, as music is influenced by, if not part of the 'media' thare is no reason whatsoever why people should regard the US as a market and not the EU, especially when the IFPI, record companies, artists and, by the way, the LAW define the EU as a single market. Markets do not necessarily follow national boundaries, that's something anyone with a smattering of economics should know. There are products that are found only in some towns in Europe as there are in teh US. there are others found in States in the US as there are in the EU. Then, there are products that are found in the whole of the states and not in the EU and vice versa (e.g. US meet is totally banned in the EU and peanut butter is an 'exotic' product here). The 'identity' of the EU market is strengtened by its contrast with the US market (that's for al sorts of 'identities', cometition makes one's identity clearer). The divide has never been clearer in the music market. The greatest selling albums in teh US last year hardly sold in the EU and vice versa, with very, very few exceptions. R&B is almost a 'niche' market in the EU (I think it's overall under 3% of album sales and declining)while it seems to be all-pervasive in the US. On the other hand, dance is mainstream in the EU (altogether I think it is about 18/20% of record sales...) as well as Pop and Rock (i think in reverse order) being by far the biggest genres in the EU, while in the US we can hardly say that. Country music is comparatively big in the US, but is virtually non-existent in the EU. Actually, this is more an example of refginal market, Country is certailnly not as big a slice of the market in Los Angeles or NY as it is in Texas or New Mexico (or one of the many 'square' states in the middle). On the other hand, big European singers (like the lady in my picture) are hardly known in the US. This said, the point, however, is not that the US is not the biggest single-country market in the world, of course it is. The fact is that it's not 'more than 50% of the world's market' as it is at this very moment around 27/29% and has not been around 50 since the late 60s...
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 23, 2006 14:36:21 GMT -5
Umm wtf? lmao.. I'm not going to even bother. Ah, ah, ah! So confident and keen to say the uS is more than half the world's market before and now you get data you won't even bother?
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 23, 2006 15:25:16 GMT -5
Damn, why are people comparing all of Europe, which is a continent, to all of the US which is a country? It's ridiculous. The U.S. by far is the biggest music market followed by Japan. Apart from my point above (that is not the issue), to be correct, Europe is not actually geographically a continent... The continental plaque where Europe is is called Eurasia, and what we culturally and historically fdefine as Europe is but a tiny bit of it, plus a tiny bit of Africa (Southern italy is geographically in Africa, from Naples down). The US is by comparison a much bigger slice (40% or so) of a continetn (North America0 than Europe (which is just about 10% of Eurasia). So, no. Europe is no more of a whole continent than the US. Geographically not. Historically maybe, but even there, Europe is a rather modern invention, not much older than the US. In the Middle ages, Europe did not exist. actually, the word 'Europa' first appeard in the late16th Century, almost 100 years after the word 'America' was coined (and incredibly, the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary still does not ahve the very word 'Europe'!) Before that, we had 'Christendom' and before, and till pretty late, it was the Roman Empire (if you asked anyone up to the 14th/15th Centuries, they would have identified the 'state' with the Roman Empire, yes, despite its official- yet wrongly dated- demise in 476 AD). The idea of Europe has only lately been finalised, and guess how? Through what is known as Common market. Even the idea of Europe we had last century was completely different. Europe did not have the idea of same-propsefulness and related identity as it has now, rather it would have meant separation and enmity. Just think about the almost millenarian war/fight between France and the UK, only solved after WWII. The firts real European visionary was actually Queen Victoria (1837-1901), even if, by then, Europe had started to take shape. Therefore, the key defining element of Europe is not its geography, not its history, not its culture, but its being a 'single market'... The US have more of a sense of historical unity than Europe, and people from the US even call themselves Americans (hey, that IS a continent!!!) SO, no- Europe is not a continent in any ways apart from one- economically, as it is a single market. Had we not had the recent years, French and British culture would have been as similar as chalk and cheese, while now we can even think of a European culture, that is, after the market was established. Ask anyone in 1950 what American culture was, they would have mentioned films, chewing gum and Rock'n'Roll. Aske anyone what Euroean culture was, you would have no reply. After the Common Market was established, the sense of a communal European culture became stronger, so, thake away the market, and Europe does not exist. Europe is by definition not a continent, but a 'single market'.
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ange
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Post by ange on Sept 25, 2006 5:48:21 GMT -5
what about LeAnn Rimes, she has like 38 million
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 26, 2006 16:28:24 GMT -5
Well, there are about 20 female singers above 50m, so she should be about30/40ish?
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 26, 2006 16:30:16 GMT -5
Yeah - I'm quite known on this board to fabricate figures like these. Right. You know so much about my history on this board, junior member - 166 posts, and you joined like four months ago. Still waiting for an apology. Not gentlemanly enough?
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Post by music on Sept 26, 2006 16:57:09 GMT -5
About the topic...
Madonna is the #1 female in terms of sales in Europe and Australia, #2 in the US (Her and Mimi are both behind Babs and tied with RIAA total but Madonna's albums need some re-certifications) and behind only Celine and Shania in Canada and behind only Mariah, and Janet and Celine by a little in Japan.
Madonna has sold more albums, singles, and records combined world wide than Celine, Mariah, Whitney, or Barbra. Janet and Shania are left in the dust by Madge, Mimi, Celine, Whitney, etc...
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 27, 2006 15:22:30 GMT -5
About the topic... Madonna is the #1 female in terms of sales in Europe and Australia, #2 in the US (Her and Mimi are both behind Babs and tied with RIAA total but Madonna's albums need some re-certifications) and behind only Celine and Shania in Canada and behind only Mariah, and Janet and Celine by a little in Japan. Madonna has sold more albums, singles, and records combined world wide than Celine, Mariah, Whitney, or Barbra. Janet and Shania are left in the dust by Madge, Mimi, Celine, Whitney, etc... Yes, well, the reason why she's sold so many records is that she is (one of the) best seller(s) in virtually every country in the world, while others have strongholds in some countries but not all over the world. For example, Barbara Streisand has sold a few million more than her in the US, but does not appear at all among the best selling 50 artists in basically any other country in the world. Mariah has the same certifications for albums as Madonna in the US (thought she was still bebhind, anyway) but, again, does not appear in the A list in lots most other countries (except Japan). On the other hand, even where Madonna does not score the #1 overall sales position, she's still very high up in the whole-history sales in basically every single world market. I think she ranks top10 artists/groups (not just female)of all time in 70/80% of the world markets. you will find that only the Beatles, Elvis and MJ appear in those lists as often as Madonna... Others very often score a #1 or top top 5 all time female sales in just one or two countries, and thend to sink deep down the top 100 in a the majority of the others. Celine, I think, has pretty high scores across the world, to be honest, even if not as high as Madonna's. As I said before, I think Celine has a more global success than Mariah, however, she's in what is known as the superstar retirement home: vegas. Whitney is planning a comeback, but I do not think she will manage much. She's been through so much since, she looks aged, and I am pretty sure her voice is no longer what it used to be (by all standards, it was far superior to both Celine's -who actually has 3 notes less than Madonna, though she has more 'volume'- and Mariah). So, unfortunately, I do not expect much (personally, I don't care what she looks like, but I am afraid it will affect her). I'm actually in two minds about her comeback. i'm not extremely optimist, and she's already a legend. she risks staining her legendary status (just a bit I would think) if she flops, and she really does not need to prove anything: her story is quite clear, a huge voice with amazing singing technique who later lost the plot and got involved with drugs and bad friends. this, in a way, adds to her legendary status, a bit like Elvis, Janis Joplin, Maria Callas... By the time Celine will be released from Vegas, it will be too late in 2 ways: she will have had a huge gap in her career and her voice will have weakened (it already has, and it happens to all 'shouters', especially those like Celine, who strain the voice every time they sing, unlike Aretha, who managed a 40-year career because she had the lungs, the mouth and the nose to be naturally loud). Mariah's problem is that she is wholly dependent on one market. She has not scored any significant international hit since the 90s. She's very unlikely to repeat TEOM soon in the US, so, not much hope of great sales to come. The final reason why things are unlikely to cahnge in the near future is that album sales are no longer what they used to be. this does not mean there are not enough albums sold to sell like in the 80s. There could as well be another thriller, but the problem is that mthe market is split, no longer united. More and more often, we see artists doing well in the us doing rather poorly in the rest of the world and vice-versa. If TEOM had had the same reception in Europe as it had in teh US, it would have sold 13m instead of 8.2m officially shipped (IFPI). If COAD had had the same reception in the US as in the rest of the world, it would have already sold 14m instead of its current 9 or so (though still charting). Madonna is far ahead, and, as the market is, there is little chance of huge changes in the near future. Madonna's impressive single sales are just about enough to guarantee a widening of the gap (it appears she's sold 14m singlessince November) in total sales, but no huge increase in the album sales difference (maybe 1/3m by the end of the year, pretty immaterial compared with the numbers so we are dealing with). Celine and Whitney will be slowly left behind, so will Barbara and Shania. Britney is still pretty far to be a contender at the moment, and i don't see any others in any position to do so. Madonna's iconic status guarantees constant back catalogue sales (TIC alone still sells in excess of 1/2 a million a year, and it's 1more than 10 years old...) and guarantees that even after she retires 9if she retires at all...) she will be selling tens of millions with greatest hits compilations (a bit like Elvis and the Beatles do, in the end, she has a string of hits that even the Beatles would envy...). I do not see any other female (or male for the matter) artist in a position to outsmart the Queen of Pop in teh next 20 years, and if the market keeps the current trend of disposable and easily manageable idlets, manufactured hits, split markets etc, I don't see it ever happening... But one never knows....
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iMoan
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Post by iMoan on Sept 27, 2006 16:00:26 GMT -5
Umm wtf? lmao.. I'm not going to even bother. Ah, ah, ah! So confident and keen to say the uS is more than half the world's market before and now you get data you won't even bother? Umm.. no, I didn't say the US was half of the world's market. I said the US IS the biggest selling music market at the moment. I'm not gonna sit and argue all day when your comparing Europe to the USA. You might as well compare Africa to Mexico.
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baluba
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Post by baluba on Sept 28, 2006 14:36:08 GMT -5
No, my dear, the EU is a single market,a nd currently selling more than the uS. If you ever read the definition of EU, you would find it as 'a single market'. very first words of the Maastricht agreement. Also the IFPI and record companies call it a single market, and it behaves as a single market- so, it's a market. Plus, Japan sells fewer albums than the UK,(IFPI again) As to the US being the 'leading'market', I actually think that the greatest expoetre of music since the 60s has been the uK, not the US (the list of HUGE UK acts is pretty long, from The Beatles to Pink Floyd, the Stones, Elton John...) not the US (I catually seem to recall thet 40% of all records sold since 1960 is from the UK, don't ask me to fetch the data, but it's something like that...).
You, as many others, seem to confuse 'state' with market, and overlook the fact that in market terms, there is no boundary whatsoever within the EU, exactly like in the US, and also overlook the fact that theuS are not a state, but a group of states, so as is the UK (it's 4 states plus some territories). If you wre in the EU, you would know the difference quite well, as the idea of creating a 'superstate' floundered when teh French (thanks God) rejected the 'constitution'. The market is not disputed at all though, and is soon to expannd to 2 new states, and one can see it expanding further to Turkey, and in the far future even further (I would not be surprised to see australia and in the EU in 10/20 years time, its economy is much more 'European' than it geographical location would suggest, then maybe Canada, but that is not on the cards yet...)
From a US perspective, of coyurse US music is all-pervasive there, but it's not as much everywhere. A-List American acts do include Elvis, Madonna, Michael Jackson (though Madonna's music has been counted as a British, because produced here since RoL or so) and others, but the sheer volume of British bands and acts (hey, the top 10 bands are basically all brits, with an Irish and one US and one from Sweden in the race). Even MJ has not sold much more than (shame) Elton John or (even more shame) Cliff Richard...
Anyway, the EU is by definition a single market, not a state, not a continent (nor is Europe a continent). The US is therefore basically competing with another market roughly the same size (rather bigger with tapes and singles added). Moreover teh US has sen its market shrinking basically steadily, while EU markets have held their place if not grown (it appears that, apart form the UK holding up its growth, France has is projected to increase by about 7/10% this year, while the US is down 60m from last year, to a meagre 600m, which would put it more than 100m behind the EU... this is IFPI mid-year predictions, and you can check them online...) Get used to the trend. it had been predicted abbout 5 years ago, and is prediceted to continue for a few more years...
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iMoan
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Post by iMoan on Sept 28, 2006 16:22:47 GMT -5
Anyway, the EU is by definition a single market, not a state, not a continent (nor is Europe a continent). The US is therefore basically competing with another market roughly the same size (rather bigger with tapes and singles added). Moreover teh US has sen its market shrinking basically steadily, while EU markets have held their place if not grown (it appears that, apart form the UK holding up its growth, France has is projected to increase by about 7/10% this year, while the US is down 60m from last year, to a meagre 600m, which would put it more than 100m behind the EU... this is IFPI mid-year predictions, and you can check them online...) Get used to the trend. it had been predicted abbout 5 years ago, and is prediceted to continue for a few more years... ROFL umm did you just say Europe (EU) isn't a continent? You just lost all credibility. Apart from my point above (that is not the issue), to be correct, Europe is not actually geographically a continent... The continental plaque where Europe is is called Eurasia, and what we culturally and historically fdefine as Europe is but a tiny bit of it, plus a tiny bit of Africa (Southern italy is geographically in Africa, from Naples down). The US is by comparison a much bigger slice (40% or so) of a continetn (North America0 than Europe (which is just about 10% of Eurasia). So, no. Europe is no more of a whole continent than the US. Geographically not. Historically maybe, but even there, Europe is a rather modern invention, not much older than the US. In the Middle ages, Europe did not exist. actually, the word 'Europa' first appeard in the late16th Century, almost 100 years after the word 'America' was coined (and incredibly, the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary still does not ahve the very word 'Europe'!) Yup you DEFAINTLY lost all credibility
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Post by babyboylrtm on Sept 28, 2006 16:46:52 GMT -5
LMFAO Lilleh!
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Minimalism
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Post by Minimalism on Sept 29, 2006 0:08:16 GMT -5
Off topic: baluba, your post are often VERY long. Are you a writer of some sort? Do you write those posts straight away, or do you make a planning before? Just Curious. :)
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