lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:00:21 GMT -5
I'd throw "You Don't Know Me" in to the ring, aswell. I would have thought "Completely" was the front runner, though.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:05:14 GMT -5
You're probably right that "You Don't Know Me" would make a lot of sense, but I didn't like that song very much the first go through the album. "Whole World's Crazy" and "Straight Across My Mind" were heavier songs I liked decently, but I didn't think it made much sense for radio. "Breathe Again" was a lighter song that I didn't think would be a single either, but I probably like it better than the ones I thought had crossover potential.
I agree with Dev, "Get Thru This" is been-there/done-that for me as well. And if it wasn't a hit the first time around, I don't think it's the way to go now.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:15:00 GMT -5
I decided to listen to the album to see if it would redeem them from the horridness of this song's music video. I think "Die Trying" is easily my favorite song on the record. Nothing on the album is terrible, but the lyrics are pretty bad on a lot of songs. Odd, because I think "Die Trying" is easily the weakest song they have in all departments. Definitely the weakest lyrically.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:16:07 GMT -5
Definitely disagree with that. In all departments, I'd say it's their strongest.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:17:39 GMT -5
I think the next single should be "I Will Be There" or "Sorry" for crossover and "Completely" or "You Don't Know Me" for active.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:17:55 GMT -5
Definitely disagree with that. In all departments, I'd say it's their strongest. It barely has a chorus.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:19:02 GMT -5
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:19:38 GMT -5
VERSE 1 I think its time for me to go now, I've done more harm than good If I could change how this turned out Yeah You know that I would
PRE-CHORUS Sometimes the weight is more than I can hold, I'd rather fail than not know
CHORUS If it takes forever, I will die trying If it takes forever, I will die trying I will die trying
VERSE 2 I wish I knew then what I know now, But I'd probably do the same Yeah I get the feeling it's planned out, From the cradle to the grave
PRE-CHORUS Sometimes the weight is more than I can hold, I'd rather fail than never really know
There's barely anything to these lyrics. It's like saying they're better than the others because there's less lyrics to go around.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:25:03 GMT -5
Pretty much. Lyrics are not their strong suit. Most of their songs put stressed syllables of words in weird forced places, and a lot of the lines are clunky / a string of clichés. "Die Trying" is less guilty of it because it has fewer offenses. Harmonically, rhythmically, and emotively (in terms of vocalization) to me, it's their standout song. The layering of clean and distorted guitars works well and the vocal harmonies are awesome. I also like the line "I get the feeling it's planned out from the cradle to the grave". The use of cradle and grave gives a cool imagery-driven sense of progression from birth to death that's a peg above what I'd expect from a band like this. Unfortunately their other songs meet those negative expectations.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:27:21 GMT -5
I'm sorry you feel that way. I've been a fan of this band since their debut in 2006 and a lot of these songs I think are immensely strong. "You Don't Know Me", "Raining", and "I Will Be There" are especially excellent.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:28:42 GMT -5
Also, I don't know why you would think it above a post-grunge band to use a common expression.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:32:19 GMT -5
I had never heard that expression before, but googling it, it looks like it's got some traction in pop culture already. I think a lot of my love for "Die Trying" is also carried over from the old version featuring Shaun Morgan. That version with all the cool arpeggiated acoustic guitars was awesome. I don't know why Howard Benson thought that this was more effective, but I think I've established that I think he blows already.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:36:32 GMT -5
Yeah, he does seem to take the sting out of bands. Maybe a little bit of a safe producer? This album sounds weaker when the balladry comes along, for me. Best keepin' it heavy with these guys.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:38:28 GMT -5
I agree. I think the old version of "Die Trying" shows that these guys can write good stuff with acoustic guitars and are capable of writing softer songs and doing it well. But yeah, Howard Benson makes a heavy song sound like radio rock, and pretty song sound like...radio rock. He's the ultimate vanilla producer.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:43:21 GMT -5
He also worked with POD and Blindside recently. I'm scared.
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rockmaniac
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Post by rockmaniac on Mar 30, 2011 18:43:37 GMT -5
I agree. I think the old version of "Die Trying" shows that these guys can write good stuff with acoustic guitars and are capable of writing softer songs and doing it well. But yeah, Howard Benson makes a heavy song sound like radio rock, and pretty song sound like...radio rock. He's the ultimate vanilla producer. let's not forget guys like Rick Rubin and Don Gilmore
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:43:51 GMT -5
When I met Apocalyptica, they said that they hate their radio rock songs, and he only produces those tracks on their albums I believe.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:44:20 GMT -5
Benson, also managed to make Hetherington & Gontier sound indistinguishable. Good job.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:44:37 GMT -5
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 18:45:19 GMT -5
let's not forget Rick Rubin You can go to hell.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:47:04 GMT -5
Yeah. And in the last 6 years, look at how many bands he's been responsible for raping the soul out of. I didn't know he produced Skindred's 'Babylon'. I'll have to give him props for establishing them as a good band. Though I thought 'Roots Rock Riot' was stronger.
EDIT: This is referring to Benson, the mention of Rubin and Gilmore came as I was posting this.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:47:20 GMT -5
Haha. I don't think Rubin deserves to be put in the "suckage, radio rock producer" category, but ok.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:49:17 GMT -5
I think Rick Rubin and Don Gilmore are a lot better than Howard Benson. Rick Rubin has produced a lot of awesome albums. System Of A Down's albums? Awesome. Ours - Mercy? REALLY AWESOME! And other than the clipping problem, Death Magnetic was really good too.
And I think Don Gilmore was huge reason Hybrid Theory was one of if not the stand out album of the nu-metal era. I like both those guys a lot better than Benson.
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rockmaniac
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Post by rockmaniac on Mar 30, 2011 18:51:25 GMT -5
I think Rick Rubin and Don Gilmore are a lot better than Howard Benson. Rick Rubin has produced a lot of awesome albums. System Of A Down's albums? Awesome. Ours - Mercy? REALLY AWESOME! And other than the clipping problem, Death Magnetic was really good too. And I think Don Gilmore was huge reason Hybrid Theory was one of if not the stand out album of the nu-metal era. I like both those guys a lot better than Benson. Rubin produced the last two Slipknot albums, as well
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:52:20 GMT -5
Yeah, and both of those didn't suck imo. Some Slipknot fans might think that they were a lot worse than the first two albums though. I know my girlfriend does, but she likes way heavier shit than I do.
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rockmaniac
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Post by rockmaniac on Mar 30, 2011 18:54:09 GMT -5
here's another producer I want to mention: Johnny K. he's known for doing the first 3 Disturbed albums
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:56:52 GMT -5
When I met Apocalyptica, they said that they hate their radio rock songs, and he only produces those tracks on their albums I believe. So, they're making music they don't wanna make? Man, Benson must be some kind of bulldozer, aswell.
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on Mar 30, 2011 18:59:43 GMT -5
here's another producer I want to mention: Johnny K. he's known for doing the first 3 Disturbed albums Do you know what we're talking about here? Or are you just mentioning producers off the top of your head for the sake of it? I recall you loving every single from "All Hope is Gone", so I don't know where you're going with this Slipknot thing.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 30, 2011 18:59:56 GMT -5
Well both of their two most recent albums have primary producers with one or two tracks produced by Benson. So far Benson has produced "I Don't Care", "Not Strong Enough", and "Broken Pieces" (f/ Lacey of Flyleaf so it's sure to be the third single). The guys say that they don't like their radio rock tunes and Paavo hates "Not Strong Enough". He says that they only play that song live in markets where the local radio station is currently playing it. Otherwise they avoid it at all costs.
I personally like "Not Strong Enough" better than their other radio-rock singles, but whatever. "SOS" f/ Cristina Scabbia should have been a single off their last album. That would have been my favorite single by a lot had it been released. Their epic instrumental songs are obviously my favorites though. :)
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 30, 2011 19:03:16 GMT -5
here's another producer I want to mention: Johnny K. he's known for doing the first 3 Disturbed albums Do you know what we're talking about here? Or are you just mentioning producers off the top of your head for the sake of it? I was wondering this myself.
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