Billboard Hot 100: 04/07/12

[Verisimilitude]

Killing off the CD single in the mid '90s brought major consequences to the music industry. We may have not had many diamond sellers but now we have people thinking that songs like "Torn" and "Don't Speak" flopped on the charts instead.

[Deleted]

Really? Surely anybody who follows the charts closely enough to know where "Torn" and "Don't Speak" peaked would know why. Not that thinking they weren't huge hits on paper isn't a major consequence to the music industry.

[cesarams]

Mar 22, 2012 9:16:51 GMT -5 josh said:

Last five threads:

3/31/12, 3/24/12, 3/17/12, 3/10/12, 3/3/12.

Thanks Josh and Holiday Guy.

[freezinggame]

1. ADELE - Set Fire To The Rain: 169.112 (- 2.692)
2. KELLY CLARKSON - Stronger (What Doesn't Kill ...: 162.122 (+ 0.600)

Only a 7 million difference! Come on, Kelly!

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2012 7:13:05 GMT -5 jebsib said:

Also, don't be fooled by the old "If its a huge iTunes hit, why isn't radio listening?" bit. Radio hasn't cared about sales for decades. They look at it as apples to oranges with what they do. Their format-specific research is much more precise.

I've suspected for a while that this is the case - the radio audience and the internet-savvy music audience don't have as much overlap as I wish they did. In this respect I'm glad that BB decided to add the On-Demand component, which will more accurately reflect the currently popularity of artists like fun. and Gotye without having to wait on radio to play catchup.

Even so, I was surprised that radio took so long to jump on WAY b/c it wasn't like RITD, which was so different from anything on CHR or HAC. WAY sounds exactly like what I would expect to hear on radio in these days. Maybe I'm just delusional but it immediately struck me as so radio friendly that I couldn't comprehend the apprehension. Radio is making up for that quadruple fold now, though.

Mar 24, 2012 12:16:34 GMT -5 icefire9 said:

let's not pretend like "We Are Young" is indicative IN ANY WAY of the current state of pop music. It's clearly an exceptional song, but a complete anomaly in today's pop market. Same goes for EVERYTHING Adele.

That's a lot of anomalies. Adele, Pumped Up Kicks, Somebody I Used To Know, We Are Young...

Once is anomaly, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern.

I agree there is a clear indication of an incoming trend; it's just that it's still so new (just started last year) and dance-poppy stuff still so easily dominates that I can see why some have not picked up on it just yet. But it's obvious that radio is finally ready to move on to something else.

People complain about the hip-hop takeover before but really I just don't like when one sound (regardless of what that sound is) almost uniformly takes over. That's how I've felt about the electro/dance trend for the past couple of years. I hope (in vain, probably) that nothing else is ever so dominant. What I would ideally like to see is a few songs from every genre making the top 10 or 20 at any given time. We're still not quite there yet though.

Mar 24, 2012 12:58:33 GMT -5 jebsib said:

2002 - 2005 was the GREATEST period of NO VARIETY the Hot 100 has ever had in 54 years. The tsunami of Hip-Hop and r&b flavored songs in the top 40 was unrelenting. Even if you LOVE that format, you must see that too much of anything just gets stale.

I would have been interested to see if the Hip Hop stranglehold would have still happened if CD singles had been available the whole time for every song. Seems to me it was an airplay-audience kinda phenomenon.

I have felt for a while that one of the reasons r&b and rap have been currently struggling is the double whammy of a) no physical singles market anymore and b) almost no CHR exposure. Seems the pop fans are the ones most willing to buy digitally, but the urban listeners won't for some reason. Whatever is getting played the most on CHR is going to eventually be what sells the most, so where it was booming before, urban is currently getting screwed by being cut off from the listening crowd most likely to buy something.

Rap seems to fare better than r&b when it comes to album sales but I think that's b/c of the way those artists grind and put out so many mixtapes and do so many collaborations to build up their fanbases.

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2012 12:58:33 GMT -5 jebsib said:

2002 - 2005 was the GREATEST period of NO VARIETY the Hot 100 has ever had in 54 years. The tsunami of Hip-Hop and r&b flavored songs in the top 40 was unrelenting. Even if you LOVE that format, you must see that too much of anything just gets stale.

I would have been interested to see if the Hip Hop stranglehold would have still happened if CD singles had been available the whole time for every song. Seems to me it was an airplay-audience kinda phenomenon.

There were plenty of songs that were R&B chart hits in that time period that I loved. I hate when people think Urban radio WAS songs like "This Is Why I'm Hot" and "Laffy Taffy". The better songs at the non-CHR/Pop formats are rarely the ones crossing over. The Urban songs that were crossing over were all that ringtone rap crap. I had already switched over to Urban AC before those years (2003-2007 hip-hop/R&B is probably my least favorite period for those genres ever). I think it's ignorant that some people bash Urban music because they hate what they were hearing cross over several years ago. The crap that was doing well was doing well because it's the Urban music that the pop crowd was eating up. I feel the same way about dance music. I was craving the comeback of dance music for about ten years. Now that the type of dance music that's doing well is all this Guetta and Guetta wannabe garbage, I wouldn't mind if it went away again. This is really the reason I don't listen to the radio. There is good music at every format and in every genre. If I want to hear it, I don't look to radio to find it for me.

[Deleted]

Since I wasn't listening to CHR/Pop radio during the time period, I just went through a few dozen CHR/Pop Top 20s from 2003-2007 completely at random and didn't find one that had more than 50% hip-hop OR R&B. I don't really group Alicia Keys and J-Kwon in the same category. In that case, I'd be grouping Ashlee Simpson and Nickelback in the same category.

As for the Hot 100, it was so Urban music dominated because of the lack of a significant sales component during that time period and the fact that Urban and Rhythmic radio were at an all time audience high. The only people who can be "blamed" are the listeners.

I think there are a lot of people here who exaggerate how much Urban/Rhythmic music was on CHR/Pop radio during those several years because they're not fans of those formats and so it felt like they were hearing a lot more of it than they were. I doubt as many people here would have been complaining if it was Hot AC oriented for several years in a row.

[jebsib]

Getting back to the boy-band thing, the reason that CHR/Pop DID play so much Hip-Hop (and you're right, Jazzysoul, it wasn't AS much as people recall) was because PDs were scared of the boy-band / teen trend and wanted to quickly go somewhere else. We had just gone through a big Hot AC trend at the middle of the last decade and as you said, audience ratings at rhythmic stations were at an all time high. So CHR veered rhythmic, rhythmic and urban exploded, there were no sales ... voila... complete Hip-Hop domination on the Hot 100 for several years.

The interesting thing is also how the mainstream culture will look back on those years. I get that something like "Yeah!" or "In Da Club" will be seen as 'reflective of that era' in the average guy's memories. But will "Slow Motion", "Tipsy" or "Freek-a-Leek"? Or will the lower peaking Evanescence or Maroon 5 hits be the ones remembered best? I guess time will tell.

[Deleted]

I don't think people will remember a lot of that disposable hip-hop. I love going back and looking at charts from the 60s, 70s, and 80s (decades of music that I loved) and realizing all the garbage that was on the charts. People remember all the classics and forget how much garbage there is on the pop charts regardless of the time period.

Another point I didn't make- the Hot 100 wasn't even including Urban airplay in the chart formula until 1998. Where are people complaining about the lack of diversity in the 90s? What was the point of completely ignoring Urban airplay. Urban music was sure selling albums and singles in the 90s, but they didn't even ever think to include Urban stations in the Hot 100 formula until the chart had been around for 40 years.

[Deleted]

Didn't really matter considering the Hot 100 was full of Urban songs during most of the mid-late 90s anyway.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Mar 24, 2012 12:07:32 GMT -5 jgizzle89 said:

Mar 24, 2012 11:55:02 GMT -5 crystalphnx said:

as someone who started regularly following the Hot 100 in 2004 and who doesn't particularly care for most hip-hop/rap, I shudder to think what the Hot 100 (especially the top spot) would look like today if the trends of 2002-2005 were still going strong.

- Tyga - "Rack City" - 5 weeks at No. 1
- Wiz Khalifa & Snoop Dogg ft. Bruno Mars - "Young, Wild, & Free" - 4 weeks at No. 1
- Drake ft. Rihanna - "Take Care" - 6 weeks at No. 1
- Usher - "Climax" - 8 weeks at No. 1
- 2012 American Idol Winner - "Coronation Song" - 1 week at No. 1
- Usher - "Climax" - 6 more weeks at No. 1

I'll take the likes of "We Are Young" and "What Doesn't Kill You" over gems like "Slow Motion" or "Lean Back" anyday.

let's not pretend like "We Are Young" is indicative IN ANY WAY of the current state of pop music. It's clearly an exceptional song, but a complete anomaly in today's pop market. Same goes for EVERYTHING Adele.

We are young does nothing for me. Its a lesser version of Nirvanas Smells Like teen spirit.

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2012 15:30:00 GMT -5 @gagalicious said:

Didn't really matter considering the Hot 100 was full of Urban songs during most of the mid-late 90s anyway.

You can't say it "didn't matter". In the early 60s they got rid of the R&B chart all together because they said there was enough black music on the Hot 100 anyway. Same mentality. R&B and hip-hop would have been doing even better in the 90s if they weren't only relying on the sales component while pop artists had the luxury of having both. Whether or not that would have been too much for you is a matter of personal taste.

[Deleted]

I didn't mean it literally.

I know Urban music was big in the 90's, but it was mostly because that was the only genre that sold singles. Which is bizzare considering how in the digital age, it's the genre that doesn't sell singles.

Also,
Even if Don't Speak and the others were allowed to chart, I don't even know if they would've gone to #1 at all in the first place. No Doubt would've had to compete with Un-Break My Heart, which was a big seller. Iris would've had to compete with The Boy Is Mine, Don't Want To Miss A Thing and The First Night. Torn with Too Close and The Boy Is Mine as well. And any of those songs that were in that rock/AC genre that pop was playing in the late 90's that were actually released as singles (Ironic, Sheryl Crow's songs, Chumbawumba, Sunny Came Home, Bitch, Semi Charmed Life, etc) weren't able to go #1 anyway.

[jebsib]

That is the reason I take the 90s charts with a grain of salt. Not just r&b, but country wasn't represented either until Dec 1998, and apparently there were more country stations in the US than any other format at that time. CHR was also sort of crash & burning in the early & mid 90s, so for that format to be the backbone of Hot 100 Airplay at the time was always a little weird. Along with the airplay-only songs situation, it is amazing that the Billboard Hot 100 retained its prestigious rep!

Good point about the 'garbage from every era'. People always gloss over that when recalling their favorite periods.

[jebsib]

ry4n, I cannot recall where (its so long ago) but there was a Hot 100 column suggesting that NO airplay-only song could've topped the Hot 100 except "My Heart Will Go On" (prior to its commercial release, of course). Of course, that was all speculative, because who knows whether something like "Don't Speak" would've sold 2 million copies if it was suddenly in the marketplace for $3 as opposed to the $15 No Doubt album....

[Deleted]

^Yeah that's what I figured.

I guess my point is moreso, I find it odd when the genre that sells the most singles isn't the same genre that's dominating pop radio at the time. It's kind of conflicting as to what the biggest hits are. I've always felt that sales are more important and more indicative of what people really want... and I still stick by that... but what people are going to remember when looking back are the biggest hits on radio (and also the biggest hits on MTV, ie grunge in the early-mid 90's).

[brian515]

Who do you guys think is MOST responsible for ending the hip-hop domination? I know some might think I'm crazy, but I would probably say Rihanna. Which is funny because she seemed like she'd be a one hit wonder when she first came out. She was really the first of the "modern" pop stars. I consider 2006-2008 transitional between the hip-hop dominated era and the current dance pop era. I find it funny how in the last 15 or so years we went from teen pop to hip-hop, now we're basically back to teen pop again.

[Verisimilitude]

Lady GaGa with "Just Dance". As soon as "Just Dance" then "Poker Face" hit #1, then Red One was suddenly on everyone's wish lists. And lest we not forget BEP's "music" later on.

[icefire9]

Rihanna acted as a bridge between urban and dance. She's a gateway drug, so to speak. There were other artist like that, Akon and the Black Eyed Peas come to mind.

[brian515]

Yeah of course GaGa was when it was clear we were in a new era. But I would also say stuff like SOS, Promiscuous, SexyBack, The Way I Are, etc. is what ended up leading to GaGa and Katy in the first place.

[jebsib]

Gwen.

Hollaback changed everything. May not seem so now, but that opened up the door for rhythmic to play Nelly Furtado, more Justin, Chris Brown & Rihanna turning pop, & ultimately for Lady Gaga to blow down the doors...

[Deleted]

Katy wasn't electo-pop in her first era though. It was more rock pop. Well "Dr Luke rock" pop anyhow.

Distrubia was very electo and that was before Gaga became big. Timbaland also played a major factor, along with JT and Nelly Furtado. His beats were Urban based, but Sexy Back, The Way I Are, Say It Right, etc definitely had electro elements.

SOS and Hung Up are hard to say as being "2010s electro" considering one samples a song from early 80s and the other samples one from the late 70s, respectively.

But then you have stuff like Cascada's Everytime We Touch, DJ Sammy's Heaven, ATC's Around The World, Kylie's Can't Get You Out Of My Head, and even Britney's Toxic, among others, that were all pop hits during the Urban domination.

I don't think one single person started it. It was just a slow build up that exploded once Gaga and BEP exploded in 2009. Just Dance has a very 2008 sound to it. I Gotta Feeling sounds pretty similar to everything that's big right now. And look who produced it - David Guetta. ;) And Sexy Chick became a hit right after IGF. He definitely played a big role as well. He's essentially the new Timabaland. Dr Luke has had a big involement as well.

[Push The Button]

Mar 24, 2012 16:54:30 GMT -5 jebsib said:

Gwen.

Hollaback changed everything. May not seem so now, but that opened up the door for rhythmic to play Nelly Furtado, more Justin, Chris Brown & Rihanna turning pop, & ultimately for Lady Gaga to blow down the doors...

Yep. We would go MONTHS with an all-Urban top 10 on the Hot 100 in 2003 and 2004. Hollaback changed everything.

[Jay D83]

Mar 24, 2012 17:46:47 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Mar 24, 2012 16:54:30 GMT -5 jebsib said:

Gwen.

Hollaback changed everything. May not seem so now, but that opened up the door for rhythmic to play Nelly Furtado, more Justin, Chris Brown & Rihanna turning pop, & ultimately for Lady Gaga to blow down the doors...

Yep. We would go MONTHS with an all-Urban top 10 on the Hot 100 in 2003 and 2004. Hollaback changed everything.

I think 'Hollaback' is an urban song. The only reason why people say it's pop is because Gwen is white. That song fit in with the other urban songs of that year - just like Promiscious, Justin's hits, etc did.

If you switched Gwen and Mariah's 2005 hits, this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

[Verisimilitude]

Yes, "Hollaback Girl" even went top 10 on R&B / Hip Hop songs.

[Deleted]

I think all this discussion really proves is that there wasn't one definitive song that changed the course of music. It was an evolution.

[cesarams]

Music changes every day. It's an imortal cycle.

[Stefan85]

I think Rihanna's "Don't Stop the Music" started the dance trend. I mean, when was the last time before then that a pure dance song went top 3 on CHR and the Hot 100? Mambo No. 5?

[Verisimilitude]

Mar 24, 2012 20:36:01 GMT -5 Stefan85 said:

I think Rihanna's "Don't Stop the Music" started the dance trend. I mean, when was the last time before then that a pure dance song went top 3 on CHR and the Hot 100? Mambo No. 5?

Madonna's "Music"?

[Stefan85]

Mar 24, 2012 20:41:18 GMT -5 Verisimilitude said:

Mar 24, 2012 20:36:01 GMT -5 Stefan85 said:

I think Rihanna's "Don't Stop the Music" started the dance trend. I mean, when was the last time before then that a pure dance song went top 3 on CHR and the Hot 100? Mambo No. 5?

Madonna's "Music"?

Oh yes! I forgot about that one.