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Post by josh on Apr 4, 2012 11:08:14 GMT -5
I never realized how many people actually liked Bieber here! :O
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Apr 4, 2012 11:09:30 GMT -5
I never realized how many people actually liked Bieber here! :O I don't think it has anything to do with fandom for one artist. This new chart rule changes a lot for the chart in general. This week just shows how much things have changed. This will probably affect all of our favorite artists at some point. |
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Apr 4, 2012 11:11:04 GMT -5
The weighting of streaming is certainly ridiculous. I would prefer it if the chart did not include streaming at all, but I'm okay with 1 million streams being, say, 10-20 chart points, but definitely not 100+. It's just absolutely absurd that "Boyfriend" managed the second highest first week digital sales in history yet couldn't manage to reach #1. I wish Billboard would review their decision to include streaming to such a high weighting in the aftermath of this β but I highly doubt they will.  |
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Apr 4, 2012 11:11:25 GMT -5
Radio's a dying format anyway. I need to find out how streaming works to add chart points to Madonna and Kylie...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:11:30 GMT -5
Yup. This means Britneys next single won't debut at #1 :'(
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moore746
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Post by moore746 on Apr 4, 2012 11:12:03 GMT -5
I never realized how many people actually liked Bieber here! :O Personally, I would not call myself a "stan" by any means. Maybe a fan?...I do like some of his music and I think he gets an unfair wrap, although I would never buy an album. However, when a song sells 521,000 in one week - being only available to one retailer mind you - that song clearly is the most popular song that week. Regardless of whose song that it. |
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Apr 4, 2012 11:12:29 GMT -5
Bieber is going to dominate the streaming chart for weeks and weeks as soon as its released. The same rule that hurt him now is going to benefit him in the very near future.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Apr 4, 2012 11:12:58 GMT -5
If I listen to an iTunes radio station, is that streaming that counts, or do only paid services count?
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Apr 4, 2012 11:14:33 GMT -5
I like Justin Bieber.
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moore746
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Post by moore746 on Apr 4, 2012 11:14:42 GMT -5
Yup. This means Britneys next single won't debut at #1 :'( I wouldn't be so sure. WAY is such a juggernaut that Boyfriend probably would have debuted at #1 any other time of the year, even including the ridiculous new weight of streaming. Plus, I think this week's debacle will have the record labels reevaluating their launch strategy. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:16:03 GMT -5
I don't get why Youtube counts for next to nothing, while Spotify counts as much as sales and airplay? Beiber got 15 million youtube views this week, that should count for 150 points.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:16:26 GMT -5
I never realized how many people actually liked Bieber here! :O Personally, I would not call myself a "stan" by any means. Maybe a fan?...I do like some of his music and I think he gets an unfair wrap, although I would never buy an album. However, when a song sells 521,000 in one week - being only available to one retailer mind you - that song clearly is the most popular song that week. Regardless of whose song that it. It is the most popular in terms of sales I think this is acknowledging there are multiple ways for a song to reach the consumer nowadays and therefore more than one component in measuring popularity |
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Post by pokepikalem on Apr 4, 2012 11:17:59 GMT -5
Looks like the industry now recognises the subscription model to be a viable business. The weight of this component will change across time as how the digital sales component has evolved, but I think for now it is a little bit too early to do such a thing. Unless they want label to curb their strategies so as to boost this component.
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moore746
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Post by moore746 on Apr 4, 2012 11:18:39 GMT -5
Personally, I would not call myself a "stan" by any means. Maybe a fan?...I do like some of his music and I think he gets an unfair wrap, although I would never buy an album. However, when a song sells 521,000 in one week - being only available to one retailer mind you - that song clearly is the most popular song that week. Regardless of whose song that it. It is the most popular in terms of sales I think this is acknowledging there are multiple ways for a song to reach the consumer nowadays and therefore more than one component in measuring popularity Okay well let's include Youtube views then. Boyfriend would most certainly be #1. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:19:36 GMT -5
I'm absolutely shocked. I thought Bieber had this one in the bag. I never thought Fun would manage to hold on for a 5th consecutive week.
Streaming is VERY important in the new points make up and I don't think any of us even realized how much until now.
Wow.
GO fun. and WAY!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 4, 2012 11:23:09 GMT -5
How is streaming counted? Only subscription-based screaming services or is it everything? If YouYube is counted, is there a way to count only one view per account (while not counting views that aren't through a logged-in account?)
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Apr 4, 2012 11:26:02 GMT -5
How is streaming counted? Only subscription-based screaming services or is it everything? If YouYube is counted, is there a way to count only one view per account (while not counting views that aren't through a logged-in account?) That's the whole thing.... Billboard never published a breakdown of how points are awarded or how its counted. For all we know they change the formula of On-Demand weekly. |
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Post by jasontoralba on Apr 4, 2012 11:27:39 GMT -5
i think the reason billboard ignores youtube is because youtube is a video-sharing site and hot 100 is a music chart, and people need to pay to stream to spotify and youtube's not.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 4, 2012 11:30:34 GMT -5
How is streaming counted? Only subscription-based screaming services or is it everything? If YouYube is counted, is there a way to count only one view per account (while not counting views that aren't through a logged-in account?) That's the whole thing.... Billboard never published a breakdown of how points are awarded or how its counted. For all we know they change the formula of On-Demand weekly. Which would seem odd to me since it would be a lot of work, presumably, to change the ratio each week unless there was a quick way to do so that was based on different factors. I think it's fair that streaming accounts for a large amount of the total points since streaming is done by choice whereas a lot of radio listeners may not be. Streaming puts the power of the chart back into the hands of the audience rather than the select few people that run Clear Channel so in that aspect, I think Billboard got it right. However, I think it should only count one streaming per account and only logged-in users should have their streams count, otherwise, you have people with no lives reloading the same song over and over and over again. For the last.fm Pulse chart, for example, it only counts a play by an artist or song once per member, even if that member played the song 50 times in the given period. While I'm glad that fun. is #1 again (we share the same #1: Billboard and I are BFFs), it does seem odd that Justin didn't quite make it despite his incredible sales total and the fact that his song had such a high radio impact in its first week - something I didn't see coming. |
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Apr 4, 2012 11:33:41 GMT -5
I do believe that if services like Spotify are incorporated into the streaming data for the Hot 100 then YouTube views should be too, but I'd imagine it would be very hard to collate data from YouTube because of how many different versions of the same song you would come across β it would like merging 'digital tracks' into 'digital songs', but so much more difficult. It does seem especially unreasonable to have subscription services carrying such a huge weight, though. Maybe I don't understand them probably because we don't have Spotify or really anything like that here, but are they that popular? They can't be more popular than YouTube, right? I'm pretty sure Billboard stated something about how they chose to include streaming because it's a new way that the public listen to music and they want to keep up with the changing trends and all that β well YouTube is popular, and YouTube is where so many people go for listening to music, so it just makes sense to include it aside subscription services (if they have to include streaming at all).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:39:06 GMT -5
I do believe that if services like Spotify are incorporated into the streaming data for the Hot 100 then YouTube views should be too, but I'd imagine it would be very hard to collate data from YouTube because of how many different versions of the same song you would come across Γβ it would like merging 'digital tracks' into 'digital songs', but so much more difficult. It does seem especially unreasonable to have subscription services carrying such a huge weight, though. Maybe I don't understand them probably because we don't have Spotify or really anything like that here, but are they that popular? They can't be more popular than YouTube, right? I'm pretty sure Billboard stated something about how they chose to include streaming because it's a new way that the public listen to music and they want to keep up with the changing trends and all that Γβ well YouTube is popular, and YouTube is where so many people go for listening to music, so it just makes sense to include it aside subscription services (if they have to include streaming at all). Billboard would never count all YouTube plays. Most uploads are illegal. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Apr 4, 2012 11:40:08 GMT -5
I would say subscription services are chosen over youtube because, as you said, it's easier to track but also because there's still that level of control by the labels that they don't quite have with youtube. While they can have videos removed from YouTube, there's only so much control that can be had with the content on that site whereas I think streaming sites are enlisted directly with the help of the labels.
I'm also not sure how popular streaming sites are either but in doing research for a presentation I gave last week, they're making their way up there if streaming video sites are any indication. I was shocked to read that over 1/3 of American households have a digital video recorder in their homes (TiVo, DVR, etc) since it's something that's still relatively new so I'm sure a nice chunk of the population have some sort of streaming subscription service for music as well.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 4, 2012 11:40:19 GMT -5
Wow! I had a feeling that streaming would be an issue! I said it from the very beginning. The On Demand streaming points rule is ridiculous. RIDICULOUS. |
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Apr 4, 2012 11:43:24 GMT -5
I do think that someone listening to a song on the internet is the same to me as someone happening to hear it on the radio. However, I am confused why it seems like it weighs SO much. I was shocked when I saw the news on here. However, like someone else said I bet he dominates streaming himself soon and may get a #1 in the future especially since sales aren't collapsing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:44:49 GMT -5
I don't feel it's an issue of streaming being too influential (it being on par with radio makes sense in a lot of ways); but of sales being grossly underrepresented.
60:20:20 is a more realistic ratio than 40:30:30
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moore746
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Post by moore746 on Apr 4, 2012 11:45:24 GMT -5
i think the reason billboard ignores youtube is because youtube is a video-sharing site and hot 100 is a music chart, and people need to pay to stream to spotify and youtube's not. People don't pay for radio, however. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 11:47:10 GMT -5
Radio's a dying format anyway. I need to find out how streaming works to add chart points to Madonna and Kylie... . On-demand streaming may be the way to go in the future. It's a lot more immediate and direct than airplay points from radio. I didn't see this coming either (streaming points potentially being worth so much), but I do think by doing this, Billboard is trying to stay one step ahead and is clearly taking potential future trends into account. |
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damazz09
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Post by damazz09 on Apr 4, 2012 11:52:53 GMT -5
I think that the On Demand Weight is actually on point. One of the main problem I have with radio being counted as high as it is, is that the public really don't have that much of a say of what is popular. Sure a radio station will only play what the public like but when it comes to the top 10, they don't really care how the public ranks those songs unless it's a juggernaut size hit.
When it comes to Sales vs. On Demand Songs, I prefer ODS because that represents more of the American population. By having a price on a song scares away some consumers that if based on old chart formula, they would not have been represented because they did not want to pay. But now ODS has opened the door to people to freely listen to songs without a price and without having radio tell them what is popular. Ultimately ODS does reflect more than sales what people want to listen to . If I had to predict the American population and how they listen to their music I would say 50% listen to radio 30% listen to ODS and 20% actually buy the product. I think Billboard reflects those percentages.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Apr 4, 2012 11:54:18 GMT -5
Ugh. I had a bad feeling that this would happen.  |
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Post by jasontoralba on Apr 4, 2012 11:54:40 GMT -5
60:20:20 doesn't explain 521k downloads landing at #2.
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