Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 14:58:35 GMT -5
How do we know who's been warned and who hasn't? Is there a leak amongst the moderating staff? I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too. He may have or may not have They are not going to tell you |
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:00:40 GMT -5
I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too. He may have or may not have They are not going to tell you That's fine. But if he was warned, he doesn't seem to care much, lol. |
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RobM88
Charting
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 427
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Post by RobM88 on Apr 4, 2012 15:03:53 GMT -5
OK i usually just quietly read along, but on this one I just have to chime in...
MADONNA would have been #1 even without the album/ticket bundling promotion. The ticket buyers are among her most avid fans, and you know that a large chunk of them would have bought the album had there been no tour/tickets to buy! If you were buying tickets anyway there is no need to buy another copy.
That said, I'm very happy for Lionel's success too. Love the 80s of course!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 15:08:46 GMT -5
Madonna was #1
Who cares if it happened because of the ticket promo?
One source seems to say that the difference between #1 and #2 was the tickets
Others do not say anything at all
Unless there is an exact number no one is going to know the exact details
Beyond that, who cares?
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 4, 2012 15:25:56 GMT -5
How do we know who's been warned and who hasn't? Is there a leak amongst the moderating staff? I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too. Excuse me, I was not warned. I've done nothing wrong. I have a strong opinion, that's it. Don't like it, too bad. This is message board, not my real life. I watch what I say now because I was actually banned for a week for telling someone that they were "annoying." It was a "personal attack." HA! |
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asg4
Platinum Member
Joined: October 2006
Posts: 1,102
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Post by asg4 on Apr 4, 2012 15:26:12 GMT -5
I hope billboard clarifies this. But they r scared to feel the heat from this. Billboard has cheapened the charts and need to re-evaluate what they r doing. A 25cent album shouldn't be counted either
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:27:13 GMT -5
FROM BILLBOARD.BIZ
Of Madonna's 359,000 sold, trusted sources tell Billboard that somewhere in the area of 185,000 came from the bundle/redemption code. Sacre bleu, you say, doing math: 359 - 180 = 179. Mr. Richie's 199,000 is the true king-making total this week!
But that's completely ridiculous. With all respect deserved and paid to the beloved songs of Mr. Richie, think about two important points. One: Madonna fans who redeemed that code are not receiving the album for free. The price of Madonna's album was bundled into the ticket purchase. I can understand why there's confusion about this. Even the CEO of Ticketmaster tweeted that fans buying tickets got "a free copy of MDNA." (The March 30 tweet has since been taken down). Such is the less-than-fully-transparent nature of bundling.
But let's take a hypothetical for a second: the cost of MDNA wasn't bundled into the ticket price, or that Billboard doesn't count those sales. All 185,000 fans who used the Madonna redemption code were the first in line to buy tickets to her tour. These are her top fans, each of whom were eager to shell out anywhere from $50 to more than $350 for a seat. If no bundle existed, do you really think a large portion of these fans wouldn't have purchased the album? We'll never know for certain, of course. But I think it's a more than safe bet that Madonna has the no. 1 album in the U.S. under any circumstance - joining her deserved no. 1 debuts in at least 17 other countries, according to manager Guy Oseary's tweets.
For context, here are her recent albums' first-week sales, per Nielsen SoundScan:
2008 - Hard Candy - 280K
2005 - Confessions on a Dance Floor - 350K
2003 - American Life - 240K
2000 - Music - 420K
1998 - Ray of Light - 371K
So you can see, given that MDNA has a nice buzz and single going, it's pretty much beyond reason to think that suddenly this album would sell substantially less than any recent one Madonna has released.
That said, let's wait and see what the drop-off is next week on sales of MDNA. Second weeks tend to follow a fairly predictable curve. And while it's far from a perfect science, it's one of the best bullsh-- detectors out there for an inflated first week. Billboard's head of charts Silvio Pietroluongo says that an iconic pop star's album will generally drop anywhere from 65 to 80 percent second week. If MDNA drops a lot more than that, it'll be an indication of the degree of first week inflation caused by bundling.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:29:37 GMT -5
I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too. Excuse me, I was not warned. I've done nothing wrong. I have a strong opinion, that's it. Don't like it, too bad. This is message board, not my real life. I watch what I say now because I was actually banned for a week for telling someone that they were "annoying." It was a "personal attack." HA! Maybe I'm not talking about the same type of WARNINGS that you guys are, maybe it's more formal here. You and STFan got a talking to, as did I. That's what I meant. |
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Hotlantan
Charting
Joined: July 2006
Posts: 179 
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Post by Hotlantan on Apr 4, 2012 15:31:18 GMT -5
He may have or may not have They are not going to tell you That's fine. But if he was warned, he doesn't seem to care much, lol. Thank goodness you are "not trying to start anything"...  |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 15:33:32 GMT -5
Excuse me, I was not warned. I've done nothing wrong. I have a strong opinion, that's it. Don't like it, too bad. This is message board, not my real life. I watch what I say now because I was actually banned for a week for telling someone that they were "annoying." It was a "personal attack." HA! Maybe I'm not talking about the same type of WARNINGS that you guys are, maybe it's more formal here. You and STFan got a talking to, as did I. That's what I meant. Maybe a good way to not get them in here to hand out real warnings or bans is to calm down and change the topic? |
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:33:36 GMT -5
That's fine. But if he was warned, he doesn't seem to care much, lol. Thank goodness you are "not trying to start anything"... I really wasn't. Truthfully. I just feel like I got a good amount of shit thrown at me while he was pretty much ignored. That's fine, I'm done talking about it - I can tell that it's a losing battle and people here were ready to dismiss everything I said from the get go. MOVING ON NOW. Not talking about this anymore. |
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:33:56 GMT -5
Maybe I'm not talking about the same type of WARNINGS that you guys are, maybe it's more formal here. You and STFan got a talking to, as did I. That's what I meant. Maybe a good way to not get them in here to hand out real warnings or bans is to calm down and change the topic? Done. |
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Apr 4, 2012 15:34:13 GMT -5
It doesn't matter. Without a hit this song will struggle to get American Life numbers.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:35:41 GMT -5
American Life numbers are actually decent for a pop star in 2012 tbh.
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,923
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 4, 2012 15:38:38 GMT -5
This reiterates what I had been saying before- not that it wasn't obvious: "While the public may view it as free, [the album is] actually bundled into the price of the ticket.” (4/4p)*Closes case*  |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 15:41:59 GMT -5
Is no one going to warn asg4 for being so instigating and unnecessarily smug? Just wondering. Virtually every Madonna fan was warned, as was STFan. How do we know who's been warned and who hasn't? Is there a leak amongst the moderating staff? I was warned (and ripped to shreds by half of this board), STFan was warned, areyoureadytojump was warned... I'm just asking why asg4 hasn't been, that's all. Not trying to start anything either. I think if I uphold the rules, he should too. What is the problem now? My post was an article that was on-topic, cited a source with a direct link, and contained no commentary from me. I have posted HITS Rumor Mill articles on & off for years. (Here's one I posted about Bruce Springsteen in October of 2007.)This is a Charts/Sales discussion thread, not a "Madonna!" discussion thread. As I said, my post was on-topic and there is nothing wrong with it. In the almost 8 years I've been here, and the time I spent on the R&R boards, I don't remember the board ever being this bad to the point where you can't even post 1 on-topic charts article without being questioned by fans who want a 100% positive spin on everything.  Getting back on topic...This week's chart news is now 'old news.' Nicki Minaj will be # 1 next week. Another Pulse thread has already been created for that chart news. |
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:43:17 GMT -5
STFan, you misunderstood me. I was actually defending you. lol
*back on topic*
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,923
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 4, 2012 15:50:27 GMT -5
The whole Billboard Biz article, which was not posted. :) www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/record-labels/editor-s-note-what-role-did-bundling-and-1006670752.storyEditor's Note: What Role Did Bundling and Exclusives Play in Madonna and Justin Bieber's Big Debuts?April 04, 2012 By Bill Werde, New York Madonna has the no. 1 album on this week's Billboard 200. She sold 359,000 copies of MDNA compared to Lionel Richie's Tuskegee, which opens with a really impressive 199k first week. But many of Madonna's sales came through a bundle option, in which fans who purchased tickets for her upcoming tour received a code that could be redeemed for either a physical CD or a digital download of the album. Justin Bieber's new single "Boyfriend" debuts at no. 2 on the Hot 100. Fun.'s "We Are Young" continues its incredible run atop the greatest songs chart. No doubt, true Beliebers will be sad to note that "Boyfriend"'s Hot 100 score did not include meaningful points from plays on streaming services, including on-demand subscription companies a la Spotify, as Team Bieber decided to withhold the song from such services for much of its first charting week. The "Boyfriend" download was also exclusive to iTunes, restricting the buying option for those that do not frequent the Apple retail store. There are plenty of people crying foul on both fronts. Those people should probably calm down. Both examples offer a glimpse into the complicated, largely experimental and ever-changing world of marketing, distributing and monetizing new releases in today's marketplace. Of Madonna's 359,000 sold, trusted sources tell Billboard that somewhere in the area of 185,000 came from the bundle/redemption code. Sacre bleu, you say, doing math: 359 - 180 = 179. Mr. Richie's 199,000 is the true king-making total this week!
But that's completely ridiculous. With all respect deserved and paid to the beloved songs of Mr. Richie, think about two important points. One: Madonna fans who redeemed that code are not receiving the album for free. The price of Madonna's album was bundled into the ticket purchase. I can understand why there's confusion about this. Even the CEO of Ticketmaster tweeted that fans buying tickets got "a free copy of MDNA." (The March 30 tweet has since been taken down). Such is the less-than-fully-transparent nature of bundling.
But let's take a hypothetical for a second: the cost of MDNA wasn't bundled into the ticket price, or that Billboard doesn't count those sales. All 185,000 fans who used the Madonna redemption code were the first in line to buy tickets to her tour. These are her top fans, each of whom were eager to shell out anywhere from $50 to more than $350 for a seat. If no bundle existed, do you really think a large portion of these fans wouldn't have purchased the album? We'll never know for certain, of course. But I think it's a more than safe bet that Madonna has the no. 1 album in the U.S. under any circumstance - joining her deserved no. 1 debuts in at least 17 other countries, according to manager Guy Oseary's tweets.
For context, here are her recent albums' first-week sales, per Nielsen SoundScan:
2008 - Hard Candy - 280K
2005 - Confessions on a Dance Floor - 350K
2003 - American Life - 240K
2000 - Music - 420K
1998 - Ray of Light - 371K
So you can see, given that MDNA has a nice buzz and single going, it's pretty much beyond reason to think that suddenly this album would sell substantially less than any recent one Madonna has released.
That said, let's wait and see what the drop-off is next week on sales of MDNA. Second weeks tend to follow a fairly predictable curve. And while it's far from a perfect science, it's one of the best bullsh-- detectors out there for an inflated first week. Billboard's head of charts Silvio Pietroluongo says that an iconic pop star's album will generally drop anywhere from 65 to 80 percent second week. If MDNA drops a lot more than that, it'll be an indication of the degree of first week inflation caused by bundling.The Bieber issue is probably more complex. The Hot 100 chart is driven largely by radio play and digital sales, with lesser slices of streaming and on-demand music rolled in. Would Bieber have had a no. 1 had his team consented to streaming the song on services such as Rhapsody and Spotify? One way of looking at this is to simply strip away streaming services from the entire Hot 100. In that scenario, yes, "Boyfriend" is the no. 1 song based on radio play and digital sales. But at this point in the evolution of the music fan experience, I'd just as soon strip away radio or digital sales as streaming songs. Spotify et al are a massive and important slice of the music consumption pie. So then the next question would be, what would have happened if Team Bieber had streamed the song? That's impossible to know, of course. Would fans have streamed for free instead of buying the single? It's the question that every marketing and promotion and product-manager executive at every label turns around in their heads every day. It's worth noting that key digital executives at most major labels- including Bieber's own Universal Music Group-now have gone on record as saying that Spotify doesn't cannibalize sales. So really, if that's the case, then why wasn't Bieber's "Boyfriend" streaming? I suppose the notion that Spotify doesn't cannibalize sales is not mutually exclusive to the notion that it might cannibalize sales in the short, immediate term. I can't think of another reason why the song wouldn't be streaming on Spotify. Unless, of course, iTunes "incentivized" Team Bieber and/or UMG to make sure that the song was only available digitally on iTunes. But of course, that would probably never happen. |
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grandelf
Gold Member
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 818
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Post by grandelf on Apr 4, 2012 15:51:05 GMT -5
MDNA doesn't exactly have a "single going", I thought the accusations of Billboard preferring certain artists were funny (like Whitney etc) but they don't even pretend to hide it now? They should have posted the actual breakdown if they had it!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 15:57:12 GMT -5
All this says that if not for the ticket sales, Lionel Richie would be #1 so - we knew that already I thought Actually it doesn't. It cites the New York Post as a source, and we all know that the Post - bless it's heart, is a tabloid. We already got official digital sales figures which were at 124,000. That would mean that Madonna only sold about 100k in physical album sales. Not likely that she sold more digital albums than physical when I don't think that's ever been the case for anyone. NY Post was right apparently |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 4, 2012 15:58:09 GMT -5
The sh.itty thing about the concert/album bundling is that it takes people out of retail stores. They need the traffic and sales so they will not continue to downsize their music sections.
I always buy my cds at an independent record store here in NYC.
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 4, 2012 15:59:36 GMT -5
Actually it doesn't. It cites the New York Post as a source, and we all know that the Post - bless it's heart, is a tabloid. We already got official digital sales figures which were at 124,000. That would mean that Madonna only sold about 100k in physical album sales. Not likely that she sold more digital albums than physical when I don't think that's ever been the case for anyone. NY Post was right apparently Mmhmm. |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 4, 2012 16:01:35 GMT -5
MDNA doesn't exactly have a "single going", I thought the accusations of Billboard preferring certain artists were funny (like Whitney etc) but they don't even pretend to hide it now? They should have posted the actual breakdown if they had it! Yes, Madonna does have a single "going.". GGW is #47 at Mediabase Top 40 and is available as a digital single. VH1 is playing the video. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 16:04:18 GMT -5
By "single going" he may have meant something that will land as a hit
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,923
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 4, 2012 16:12:47 GMT -5
^ It did- one that landed at No. 10. The general public probably would only note that, not how long it hung around.  |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 4, 2012 16:16:06 GMT -5
By "single going" he may have meant something that will land as a hit It's not OVAH yet.  |
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asg4
Platinum Member
Joined: October 2006
Posts: 1,102
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Post by asg4 on Apr 4, 2012 16:23:01 GMT -5
Actually it doesn't. It cites the New York Post as a source, and we all know that the Post - bless it's heart, is a tabloid. We already got official digital sales figures which were at 124,000. That would mean that Madonna only sold about 100k in physical album sales. Not likely that she sold more digital albums than physical when I don't think that's ever been the case for anyone. NY Post was right apparently They probably hacked into madonna phone. after all its murdochs paper |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 4, 2012 17:04:53 GMT -5
^LOL...
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ElijahWood
Gold Member
You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet
Joined: October 2009
Posts: 539
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Post by ElijahWood on Apr 4, 2012 17:17:10 GMT -5
Isn't the redeemable MDNA copy thing on-going? If so, I highly doubt the album is just going to drop out of the top10 so quickly. Madonna is a great ticket seller, and not every fan is going to rush to get theirs the first week out.
And 185k copies from the bundle? Wow. Nice strategy! I wish Britney would have done that, I know she isn't the ticket seller that Madonna is, but it still could have easily given her an extra 50k+.
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badrobot
3x Platinum Member
Joined: November 2006
Posts: 3,392
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Post by badrobot on Apr 4, 2012 17:51:06 GMT -5
The redemption number seems so high. Hmm. I feel like it might include digital pre-orders? (I guess one could consider getting the single when you pre-order the album as a "bundle.")
Anyway -- still a mighty impressive number. Hard to believe this is the 3rd-best sales week of her entire career (at least during the Soundscan era -- undoubtedly she had bigger weeks pre-'91).
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