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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 7, 2007 17:36:10 GMT -5
Yeah this chart is a mystery sometimes. I wonder why Train and Five For Fighting had hard time trying to find success withe their last singles.
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 7, 2007 17:52:27 GMT -5
I think Hot AC is BORED with Train.
As for Five For Fighting, well, he always does good with his first singles (#1, #3, and #7...:()
But then he flops afterwards.
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 7, 2007 18:48:38 GMT -5
I thought "Get To You" and "Cab" should've done much better then they did. Also, it's weird how Lifehouse has never produced 2 hits in a row. I really hope they get 2 of them on this album lol
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mst3k
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Post by mst3k on May 7, 2007 19:20:34 GMT -5
CHR/Pop started to lose its mass-appeal status in the late eighties, and specifically in 1987, the year in which a year-old CHR/Rhythmic station (Emmis's KPWR, aka Power 106), blew a huge hole in taking down longtime NATIONALLY-prominent CHR/Pop powerhouse KIIS here in LA. Almost every CHR/Pop station out there which copied KIIS's overreaction to KPWR by loading up on the rhyhtmic material which burst onto the scene in the late eighties (and which KIIS started playing FAR too much of to keep its teen audience, sacrificng its adult listenership in the process) and early nineties saw its ratings either go down slowly or just dive (KIIS went from a 10.0 to a 7.1 in less than three years--fall of 1987), and lots of onetime CHR/Pop powerhouses such as WZPL in Indianapolis eventually became Hot AC stations to hold on to the MILLIONS of baby-boomers and 'soccer moms' who couldn't listen to the vulgar hard core rap which CHR/Pop had become infested with. That's close to what happened here in Tampa... WFLZ debuted as a CHR/Rhythmic in 1989, and Q105 made the mistake of trying to compete by changing from an adult-leaning mainstream to rhythmic. They lost their adult audience (who gravitated to Mix 96), and weren't able to pull the kids away from FLZ. Within a couple of years, they gave up completely and switched to country (where they failed as well).
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on May 7, 2007 22:49:56 GMT -5
CHR/Pop started to lose its mass-appeal status in the late eighties, and specifically in 1987, the year in which a year-old CHR/Rhythmic station (Emmis's KPWR, aka Power 106), blew a huge hole in taking down longtime NATIONALLY-prominent CHR/Pop powerhouse KIIS here in LA. Almost every CHR/Pop station out there which copied KIIS's overreaction to KPWR by loading up on the rhyhtmic material which burst onto the scene in the late eighties (and which KIIS started playing FAR too much of to keep its teen audience, sacrificng its adult listenership in the process) and early nineties saw its ratings either go down slowly or just dive (KIIS went from a 10.0 to a 7.1 in less than three years--fall of 1987), and lots of onetime CHR/Pop powerhouses such as WZPL in Indianapolis eventually became Hot AC stations to hold on to the MILLIONS of baby-boomers and 'soccer moms' who couldn't listen to the vulgar hard core rap which CHR/Pop had become infested with. That's close to what happened here in Tampa... WFLZ debuted as a CHR/Rhythmic in 1989, and Q105 made the mistake of trying to compete by changing from an adult-leaning mainstream to rhythmic. They lost their adult audience (who gravitated to Mix 96), and weren't able to pull the kids away from FLZ. Within a couple of years, they gave up completely and switched to country (where they failed as well). I never lived in Tampa, but I remember reading about it in Billboard Magazine at the time. WFLZ named itself the "Power Pig", and did crazy stunts on the air. The same consultant who ran that station basically ran Chicago's WYTZ (Z-95), then a mainstream CHR, right into the ground. The beginning of the end is when they came in and "renamed" the station Hell 94.7! (I'm not making this up)! Needless to say, that lasted a week before public outcry forced them to rename the station Hot 94.7, as they segued to a Rhythmic CHR. Of course, the damage was already done, and the station flipped to "Young Talk" for awhile after about six months as Hot 94.7. To add insult to injury, a suburban CHR, Hot 102.3 (which still exists today as Adult CHR 102.3 WXLC) threatened a lawsuit against Hot 94.7. To make a long story short, this station went after the market leading B-96, and it blew up in their face. So as in your example above mst3k, trying to beat a station at their own game almost always ends up in failure. I bet if someone did the research, they would find that 80 to 90% of these types of moves result in downward ratings, and inevitably, a format flip. Of course, the debut of WFLZ was an exception to that rule, but their strong inital ratings are what caused Q-105 to make an ill advised reaction that turned out to be disasterous. Also, for whatever reason, that type of juvenile humor played well in Tampa, but was a collasial failure here in Chicago, against a ratings powerhouse that prided itself on treating their listeners with respect. As a matter of fact, B-96 remained the leading CHR station (albeit as a Rhythmic CHR) until Kiss FM came on the scene about five years ago. It took about 3 1/2 years, but Kiss FM has now overtaken B-96 as Chicago's #1 CHR station. But Adult CHR WTMX (the Mix) continues to do well, albeit in third place behind these two stations. But it is undoubtly the station of choice for adults to go to to listen to their favorite current hits. Sorry for the rambling, but it's obvious that each of our respective markets have a lot of radio history which makes it interesting to see how stations react when challenged by others. That's what makes radio so interesting, despite it's problems.
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shocker
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Post by shocker on May 8, 2007 3:19:46 GMT -5
Yeah this chart is a mystery sometimes. I wonder why Train and Five For Fighting had hard time trying to find success withe their last singles. Train hasn't released much of anything worthwhile since '04. As for Five For Fighting, I think he's quickly becoming an AC-only artist. With the exception of "World", his songs are charting higher and lasting longer at regular AC these days. Hot AC is giving him luke-warm reception for the most part.
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 8, 2007 16:47:42 GMT -5
Yeah this chart is a mystery sometimes. I wonder why Train and Five For Fighting had hard time trying to find success withe their last singles. Train hasn't released much of anything worthwhile since '04. As for Five For Fighting, I think he's quickly becoming an AC-only artist. With the exception of "World", his songs are charting higher and lasting longer at regular AC these days. Hot AC is giving him luke-warm reception for the most part. Because the audience is changing, maybe?
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Chase
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Post by Chase on May 9, 2007 0:16:40 GMT -5
I think there's a variety of factors that play in here. For one, audiences are constantly changing. When you find the next big thing, you're already too late.
But I think that some artists tend to peak on Hot AC with their first album or two because that's exactly what they are at the time -- Hot. Plus, they have a song or two that fits the sound of the format at that conjunture of the music-time continuum...Los Lonely Boys come to mind here. Some artists/bands just don't evolve record after record and produce a sound that transcends time. U2, RHCP, and Foo Fighters have been able to bring something new to the table with each record and have kept up with their respective formats. Longevity is everything. Once your sound goes stale, you get cast to the AC island, to put it bluntly.
I loved Train when they first came out because "I Am," "Free," "Meet Virginia," and "Drops of Jupiter" sounded fresh and were a breath of fresh air compared to other acts out there in the late 90s/early 00s (bubble gum pop was making a huge push in the mainstream market). But My Private Nation carried a lighter vibe that sounded overproduced, stale, and did not fit in the vein of what I preferred in 2003.
You can make the endless argument of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do formats change due to listener demands or do listener demands change because formats are shifting according to the collective sound of the time?
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 15, 2007 17:52:53 GMT -5
2008 will be the deciding year for the true core artist on Hot AC.
Matchbox Twenty will be put to the test by Nickelback, Maroon 5, and Kelly Clarkson.
Anyone else agree with that assessment?
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 16, 2007 13:32:09 GMT -5
Yeah I agree.
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Kai
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Post by Kai on May 16, 2007 14:02:17 GMT -5
Seems like Hot AC has had a light alternative, or pop-alternative sound since the late '90s. Remember that early on, Matchbox 20 was classified as alternative. But bands & artists change, times change, and the sound has to evolve as well. I'd like Hot AC to continue the same type of sound, but I wouldn't mind too much if it goes more pop - just as long as they don't start playing too much of the (c)rap that turned me away from CHR! Not too much teen-pop either, please!!!!! Hot AC should stick to the mature artists. It sucks that they're still not considered alternative. I'd love to hear them on a rock station these days (and other Hot AC bands like that) I agree that the pigeonholing of Matchbox 20 or Rob Thomas to just AC or Hot AC is ridiculous. You can turn on your local rock or alternative station and hear Nickelback (bleah) or Three Doors Down crooning out a ballad, but they won't play Bright Lights. How the hell does that make sense? With songs like Disease and Feel and Crutch, Matchbox rocked far harder than half the bands on rock/alternative radio. It makes no friggin' sense. Hot AC needs to stay strong with talented rock artists and shy away from too much "Lite" fare and teen pap. More Triple A, indie artists would mix it up nicely.
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 16, 2007 16:53:08 GMT -5
And not to mention Lifehouse hahah
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 17, 2007 14:54:00 GMT -5
And not to mention Lifehouse hahah What's so funny about that dude!
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 17, 2007 17:18:28 GMT -5
I was just playing hahah. I know u said they were your favorite band, and I honestly think they can be a core artist on this format, it;s just they need more than ONE hit single from each album. Hopefully that happens this time around!!
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on May 17, 2007 17:25:56 GMT -5
It sucks that they're still not considered alternative. I'd love to hear them on a rock station these days (and other Hot AC bands like that) I agree that the pigeonholing of Matchbox 20 or Rob Thomas to just AC or Hot AC is ridiculous. You can turn on your local rock or alternative station and hear Nickelback (bleah) or Three Doors Down crooning out a ballad, but they won't play Bright Lights. How the hell does that make sense? With songs like Disease and Feel and Crutch, Matchbox rocked far harder than half the bands on rock/alternative radio. It makes no friggin' sense. Hot AC needs to stay strong with talented rock artists and shy away from too much "Lite" fare and teen pap. More Triple A, indie artists would mix it up nicely. I agree with you, but I think the band's image has something to do with it to be honest with you. Now, Matchbox Twenty is my favorite band; but admit it- they're pretty poppy/preppy in the way that they dress, act, etc. Rob Thomas is a pretty nice, quiet guy who is a vegetarian and has a dear relationship with his wife (which is a RARITY among stars) and he's not hardcore at all. His MB20 videos appeal to teen girls more than rocker guys (thus, 3 Doors Down and Nickelback might suffer the same fate), and his influences include Genisis and Phil Collins who are NOT rock/alternative flashback material. 3 Doors Down is a southern rock band, and they're songs are poppy and rockin at the same time (example= "When I'm Gone") and they have a much more "bad" look to them if you know what I mean. Nickelback is my 2nd favorite band and the truth is- they are rock. "All the Right Reasons" only has one true pop song on it, which is "Far Away". As for Rob Thomas' solo work, I don't think that has any place anywhere near rock or alternative lol.
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 18, 2007 16:41:04 GMT -5
I was just playing hahah. I know u said they were your favorite band, and I honestly think they can be a core artist on this format, it;s just they need more than ONE hit single from each album. Hopefully that happens this time around!! Gotcha. Yeah, I think their next single might fare well if "First Time" doesn't reach "You And Me" or "Hanging By A Moment" status haha
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on May 18, 2007 16:44:09 GMT -5
It sucks that they're still not considered alternative. I'd love to hear them on a rock station these days (and other Hot AC bands like that) I agree that the pigeonholing of Matchbox 20 or Rob Thomas to just AC or Hot AC is ridiculous. You can turn on your local rock or alternative station and hear Nickelback (bleah) or Three Doors Down crooning out a ballad, but they won't play Bright Lights. How the hell does that make sense? With songs like Disease and Feel and Crutch, Matchbox rocked far harder than half the bands on rock/alternative radio. It makes no friggin' sense. Hot AC needs to stay strong with talented rock artists and shy away from too much "Lite" fare and teen pap. More Triple A, indie artists would mix it up nicely. Oops, I'm sorry. I didn't see this post for some reason. I do remember hearing Matchbox 20 on the alternative station here in San Diego long ago when they first came out. In fact a couple of months ago I hear "Push" on it I think. It was pretty awesome haha
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 23, 2007 13:16:32 GMT -5
I think once an artist gets played a lot on regular AC, (with a few exceptions), Alternative stations completely back off that artist, especially if they've been around for ten years or so (i. e. Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, etc.)
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 23, 2007 14:16:49 GMT -5
I think once an artist gets played a lot on regular AC, (with a few exceptions), Alternative stations completely back off that artist, especially if they've been around for ten years or so (i. e. Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, etc.) Agreed, probably because they are not alternative sounding within the vast music universe anymore. Some alternative stations will even go so far in just dumping an artist's entire catalog if even just one of their songs ends up with airplay on the local "Lite" station, no matter how innovative their earlier work sounded. That's a shame when you come right down to it.
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on Jun 23, 2007 16:29:47 GMT -5
Yeah, my local rock station plays "Name" and NOTHING else by The Goo Goo Dolls, and they don't play any Matchbox 20 (Well I've definitly never heard it).
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shocker
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Post by shocker on Jun 23, 2007 16:44:06 GMT -5
I think once an artist gets played a lot on regular AC, (with a few exceptions), Alternative stations completely back off that artist, especially if they've been around for ten years or so (i. e. Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, etc.) How true that is. It's because alternative music has always been known to favor artists that are new & independent, and whose sound is different from the mainstream - thus, an "alternative" to the manufactured teen-pop sound you often hear on CHR. However, once bands or artists become well-known on the mainstream circuit, they lose that "alternative" stigma. Sheryl Crow, Matchbox 20, Barenaked Ladies, and the Goo Goo Dolls were very much alternative artists in their early days; but when mainstream pop & Hot AC radio began playing their songs heavily, they really couldn't be called "alternative" anymore - even though they may still have kept that alterntative sound.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 25, 2007 20:54:53 GMT -5
Rob Thomas/Matchbox 20 does seem like the Phil Collins/Genesis of the 1980s - they both started out in the rock genre (briefly) and then quickly moved in the pop/rock genre - Alternative stations play certain cuts from Nickelback, but not "Far Away" and (most) not "If Everyone Cared" - Alternative hasn't played Lifehouse since "Spin" - some alternative stations played the Goo Goo Dolls in 1999-2000, but most started to fade out on them at that point - the only alternative stations that play "Here Without You" are trying to compete with Hot AC stations in that market - barely any alternative stations played "Away From The Sun" or anything from 3 Doors Down's last CD except "Let Me Go" - for the most part, I think Alternative caters to a harder rock audience and/or audience which expects UNIQUE sounding music - for both these reasons, I wouldn't see why an alternative station would play "Bright Lights" by Matchbox 20
Another important reason I think alternative has leaned more towards hard rock since about 2000 is the HUGE DECLINE in the number of "Active Rock" stations in many major markets, leaving Alternative stations to cover Linkin Park, Alice In Chains, Limp Bizkit, Breaking Benjamin, etc. - "Rollin'" by Linkin Park followed by "Bright Lights" would just sound horrible I think
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Post by mrclimbfall20 on Jun 26, 2007 13:49:36 GMT -5
Why does everyone keep saying they want to hear "Bright Lights" on alternative stations? That's a random song haha
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Jul 10, 2007 21:26:37 GMT -5
In the case of LAs Star 98.7, they were playing alternative stuff that Top 40 radio played in 1992/93, such as the debut CD from the Spin Doctors.
But then they started moving even father to the left into the domain of legendary alternative powerhouse KROQ; songs such as 'Fly' by Sugar Ray became staples at KYSR, as well as at KROQ & KIIS.
Hot AC has been absorbing potshots from alternative, Triple AAA and some AC stations for well over a decade, and the 'Adult Hits' (aka JACK-FM) format has cost them some listeners as well, even though Hot AC stations make PILES of money despite ratings that are roughly half of what they were in 1997/98, when the format was THE format in all of radio.
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