Problems With Country Radio

[drock89]

OK, just to start this story: KZLA isn't playing Shania's new single yet. So a fan emailed them. In their response, they highlighted some of the major problems with country radio. Remember, KZLA is the largest market in country.

Thanks for your e-mail regarding the KZLA top 20 countdown, and Shania Twain. Let me try and answer your question.

KZLA has no bias against Shania Twain. Quite the opposite. We have more Shania Twain titles in our active library than any other artist. We play Shania almost every hour.

We only feature songs on the KZLA Top 20 that we are currently playing. You're right, we're not playing Shania's current song, "Don't." In the past 2 years we've played ALL of Shania's new releases right out of the box, into our most played category on KZLA.

We also conduct ongoing music research on every current song we play. During the past 18 months, not one of her records has performed well in music research. Nor have any of these songs generated strong phone response. Usually, songs are added to KZLA in a slow, or light rotation and are gradually played more based on phones and music testing. In Shania's case, we've actually had to slow down her songs because they haven't performed well. This is frustrating to us, because we know she's an international superstar. At the same time, we have a policy of only playing songs in heavy rotation that our listeners say are their favorites. Shania's music in the last 18 months has not earned her the heavy play other songs receive. That's why we decided to wait and see with this particular record. According to the latest Radio & records airplay chart, "Don't" currently sits at #29 5 weeks after her release. In the past, a Shania record would be comfortably in the top 20 or top 15 after only 5 weeks. Last week, it moved one slot from #30 to #29. To put this in perspective, Toby Keith and Tim McGraw's current songs are #18 and #23 respectively after just 3 weeks of release.

There are 116 reporting stations on the R&R panel. 83 are playing "Don't." KZLA is one of 33 radio stations not playing this song. We don't see career momentum, nor do we see a national consensus with this single.

...there's really no bias here, I want to assure you of that. What we're doing with this song is fundamentally correct. This format needs big, hit songs from superstar artists. We wish this singe was performing much better. Until it does, we'll continue playing the great Shania songs on KZLA that have been successful in the past.

I hope this reply is helpful. Thanks again for taking the time to write.
----------------------------------

Problem 1: The callouts don't work. They claim to play what the people want to hear, but I don't think the people of L.A. want to hear "Honkytonk U" 20 times a day. Their research must not meet the national numbers, because to my knowledge Twain is doing pretty well with this single in the national callouts. Stations shouldn't base their playlists on what a small percentage of their listeners want to hear. It can be easily biased.

Problem 2: The charts can be tampered with, we all know that. And right now in radio, males do better than females. So to compare Twain's record to Keith's isn't a fair assessment. Of course he is going to fly to #1, as is McGraw, where she may never crack Top 10. Again, to base your playlist off of something that can be contorted with and payed for, bad idea.

Problem 3: Stations think that if they don't play the current record, they should play recurrent material. This is happening too much. If there is no current single, then yes they have to. But country radio is becoming stuck on recurrents and golds and the charts are moving way to slow. They need to play the currents more and more. I think that BB and R&R need to enforce stricter current rules and percentages.

In my opinion, those are the three reasons why newer singles are struggling, why it's harder to break as a new act, and why the charts are slower these days than they were even a year ago.

Note: This could apply to any artist. We called them up on Shania but I am not angry because this is happening to Shania. It's happening to everyone but a select few...

[WhySoSerious?]

Actually his response is logical and well thought out. Every song isn't going to be a smash. The reasons he gave for why "Don't" isn't in high rotation make perfect sense, and I wouldn't have it in high rotation either based on the same information.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Actually his response is logical and well thought out. Every song isn't going to be a smash. The reasons he gave for why "Don't" isn't in high rotation make perfect sense, and I wouldn't have it in high rotation either based on the same information.

I know that every song isn't going to be a smash but they gave great examples as to why everything slowed and why new songs climb very slowly...

Their playlists shouldn't be based off whether the song is performing well around the country. They should be based on if the song is good or not.

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

I know that every song isn't going to be a smash but they gave great examples as to why everything slowed and why new songs climb very slowly...

And? Where's the problem. They aren't going to put every new song by every artist into high rotation immediately. There are only a handful of artists that can get high rotation immediately at any given time. Right now they happen to be Toby (though he's questionable at this point), Rascal Flatts, Keith Urban, Tim McGraw and Kenny Chesney.

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

Their playlists shouldn't be based off whether the song is performing well around the country. They should be based on if the song is good or not.

Why? All markets are not the same. That's why Clear Channel is so awful because they program all of their stations around the country the exact same way. Thank God KZLA actually attempts to play what their listeners want to hear and not what the listeners in Alabama want.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Why? All markets are not the same. That's why Clear Channel is so awful because they program all of their stations around the country the exact same way. Thank God KZLA actually attempts to play what their listeners want to hear and not what the listeners in Alabama want.

Because like you said your first post, songs by Chesney, Keith, etc, go straight to #1 when better songs by whoever never go anywhere. The horrible songs by the industry favorites go #1 while the better songs never break Top 40 and the genre becomes generic, just like it has.

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

Because like you said your first post, songs by Chesney, Keith, etc, go straight to #1 when better songs by whoever never go anywhere. The horrible songs by the industry favorites go #1 while the better songs never break Top 40 and the genre becomes generic, just like it has.

That's the way it is on every format. The hot people are hot for a time and then they cool off. Better/worse is all subjective anyway. I'm sure there are plenty who like "Honky Tonk U" more than "Don't." And apparently KZLA's reserach has confirmed it.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

That's the way it is on every format. The hot people are hot for a time and then they cool off. Better/worse is all subjective anyway. I'm sure there are plenty who like "Honky Tonk U" more than "Don't." And apparently KZLA's reserach has confirmed it.

But if the playlists are based on callouts and the callouts say that Keith or McGraw is at the bottom and say Alison Krauss is at the top shouldn't that result for more plays for Krauss? Unfortunetly, that's not the way it works...

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

But if the playlists are based on callouts and the callouts say that Keith or McGraw is at the bottom and say Alison Krauss is at the top shouldn't that result for more plays for Krauss? Unfortunetly, that's not the way it works...

But you just said callout doesn't work.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

But you just said callout doesn't work.

That's why it doesn't work. Plus if you ask 1000 out of 1 million people, how accurate is that going to be in judging the population vote?

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

That's why it doesn't work. Plus if you ask 1000 out of 1 million people, how accurate is that going to be in judging the population vote?

Actually quite accurate. Extrapolation is a basic research concept. They can't poll a million people.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

Actually quite accurate. Extrapolation is a basic research concept. They can't poll a million people.

And what about the bias part? On phones, a group of people that hate a certain artist can effect the callout...

[Love4Shania]

KZLA are definatly biased towards Shania.
They actually DID test Don't! on their "Tuesday Test Drive" show and something like 9/10 people who called in liked the song, therefore using their logic it would qualify for their little "rules".
Secondly, the way they say their playlist is run is BS. If they do base their playlist on chart success then I find it funny how it didn't take them very long to drop "Party For Two" completely despite the fact that it was doing really well on the charts and managed to peak at #8.

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

And what about the bias part? On phones, a group of people that hate a certain artist can effect the callout...

If you poll 1000 people you aren't going to find enough biased people to effect anything. That's the point of taking a significant sized sample.

Should they just keep polling until Shania does well?

[drock89]

TCorey said:

If you poll 1000 people you aren't going to find enough biased people to effect anything. That's the point of taking a significant sized sample.

Should they just keep polling until Shania does well?

Like I said before, this has nothing to do with Shania It happens to everyone. Look at their Top 10--3 females, Top 20--2 females, Top 30--4 females. Most of them are repeated too..there are only 8 females in the Top 30...

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

Like I said before, this has nothing to do with Shania  It happens to everyone. Look at their Top 10--3 females, Top 20--2 females, Top 30--4 females. Most of them are repeated too..there are only 8 females in the Top 30...

I would be tempted to agree with you a year ago, but lately women have done better than in the past, so I'm no longer complaining.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

I would be tempted to agree with you a year ago, but lately women have done better than in the past, so I'm no longer complaining.

Three women have: Reba with HGTFM since everyone knows that Somebody was tampered with sometime, LeAnn with NBLMS probably b/c its her "rebirth" at country, and Gretchen because she is the industry darling.

Yes its getting better for women, but on the whole they still play second fiddle to the men.

[EvanJ]

TCorey said:

Thank God KZLA actually attempts to play what their listeners want to hear and not what the listeners in Alabama want.

I know you just named Alabama as a random state, but I don't know of any Emmis (owner of KZLA) stations in Alabama. KZLA is the only Emmis station on the Country panel and isn't comparable to Clear Channel which owns 42 stations on the panel.
As for women on Country radio, what about Martina McBride and didn't Sara Evans have a Number 1 last year?

[drock89]

EvanJ said:

I know you just named Alabama as a random state, but I don't know of any Emmis (owner of KZLA) stations in Alabama. KZLA is the only Emmis station on the Country panel and isn't comparable to Clear Channel which owns 42 stations on the panel.
As for women on Country radio, what about Martina McBride and didn't Sara Evans have a Number 1 last year?

Martina hasn't had a top 10 since In My Daughter's Eyes and Sara's "Suds" had suspicious rises (+800 spins) and Perfect peaked #5 in 2003..

[WhySoSerious?]

You're discrediting entire runs of songs (Suds and Somebody) because of something that happened at most for two weeks. That doesn't negate the fact that those songs were massive hits on their own.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

You're discrediting entire runs of songs (Suds and Somebody) because of something that happened at most for two weeks. That doesn't negate the fact that those songs were massive hits on their own.

Ok, Shania hit #4 without pay, and I assume Gretchen made Top 5 twice without pay. But no one cares about that.

You can't say I'm wrong. These stations are getting payed to play what no one wants to hear. The best songs stall, like for example Tift Merrit and Mindy Smith. Critics love it, but stations play crap like "Stays in Mexico".

[WhySoSerious?]

shaniagotchagood said:

Ok, Shania hit #4 without pay, and I assume Gretchen made Top 5 twice without pay. But no one cares about that.

You can't say I'm wrong. These stations are getting payed to play what no one wants to hear. The best songs stall, like for example Tift Merrit and Mindy Smith. Critics love it, but stations play crap like "Stays in Mexico".

You're making so many generalizations and assumptions with nothing to back it up that it's difficult to take you seriously.

[drock89]

TCorey said:

You're making so many generalizations and assumptions with nothing to back it up that it's difficult to take you seriously.

Then what do you think? I stated my points from what KZLA said. I think they base it too much on what a concentrated group of people think. They concentrate too much on how well the song performs in other markets. The MD holds alot of power, it needs to be managed correctly. And I still think the charts past the Top 15 are wrong because of label influences.

Radio stations complain when an artist won't/can't do interviews or call the station. They want hands on promotion and contact.

They play the songs by the people that are hot. That's expected but they play those same songs over and over. The amount of recurrent play and gold play in country rivals AC, nah it's not that bad, but it is definetly slowing up the charts.

[jimmy74747]

shaniagotchagood said:

The amount of recurrent play and gold play in country rivals AC, nah it's not that bad, but it is definetly slowing up the charts.

Thats what I LIKE about country radio. Hot AC radio too. They play a good mix of old and new. Pop and rhythmic stations play their top songs 12 times a day. Thats just way too much

[reception]

Would this be less likely to happen at a small market station?

[drock89]

jimmy74747 said:

Thats what I LIKE about country radio. Hot AC radio too. They play a good mix of old and new. Pop and rhythmic stations play their top songs 12 times a day. Thats just way too much

It's nice, yeah, but the Top 25 stations need to realize that they have so much weight, now more than ever, and playing recurrents slows up everything. I liked the days when an artist could fling 4 singles from an album without going on hiatus for 2 years.

[Marv]

One key reason why the charts are moving somewhat faster is because both trades trimmed their panels seventeen months ago to rid themselves of too many stations which were leaning TOO much on their recurrents.

Anothjer problem with radio today (and this applies to most formats) is the fact that it has never been more micromanaged and addicted to both consultants and especially research, which makes for very safe radio, which as we all know, is usually very DULL radio.

KZLA is as addicted to research as any other radio station in America, based on that response, but they have WAAAAAY too many other things to worry about; all of which can be easily fixed, before it can become a remotely listenable radio station.

1)---NEVER ingnore a single by a superstar; KZLA is undoubtedly about the only country station which ignored all three of the singles from George Strait's absolutely scintillating 'Honkytonkville' CD, which is downright unforgiveable. A few intermittent spins of 'Honk If You Honky Tonk' was equally pointless.

They've also ignored singles from other format superstars including Alan Jackson, Tim McGraw & Brooks and Dunn, as well as steady and consistent performers such as Trace Adkins, which is equally reprehensible.

2)---KZLA has too much clutter, starting with sweepers and station IDs which sound like Jillian Barberie screaming at the top of her lungs.

Office listening is an EXTREMELY important part of building ratings and station loyalty, but if you work in a bank, insurance company, or any other office setting you cannot listen to KZLA for more than the length of one song before your eardrums get shredded by screaming promos and liners.

3)---I do NOT need to be reminded more than twice per hour that 'KZLA is America's most listened-to country station'; twice within 10 minutes is totally uncalled for, since the vast majority of radio listeners here in LA are NOT victims of Alzheimers disease!!!!! Hearing that promo TWICE within TEN minutes is totally unnecessary!!!!!

4)--Like too many radio stations out there, KZLA leans way too much on their recurrents and here's overwhelming proof.

Since I work nights, I listen to 'After Midnite With Blair Garner' five nights a week, for a total of 25 hours, including weekends.

Using Alan Jackson as an example, with 'Monday Morning Church' in the top five and 'Too Much Of  A Good Thing' currently in recurrent status, there is ZERO reason for either of his two previous singles ('It's Five O'Clock Somewhere' and 'Remember When') to be heard on KZLA or any other country station more than once or twice per day tops.

If I listened to Shawn Parr M-F from 10 AM-3PM, I'd be lucky to hear more than 6-8 songs by AJ during those twenty-five hours.

In listening to 'After Midnite' for another 25 hour period, I'm very likely to hear SEVERAL songs by AJ that KZLA won't touch; they'd rather trash their TSL (Time Spent Listening) numbers by inducing TLS (Tired Listener Syndrome) by playing the same half-dozen or so songs DAILY by Mr. Jackson.

As others have mentioned, country stations don't have to play their 'powers' more than 4 or 5 times per day, but the fact remains that there are too many PDs out there who place FAR too much reliance on the national charts to begin with.

I don have to give KZLA PD R J Curtis SOME credit for being aggressive from a musical standpoint and ignoring the national charts; Chely Wright's 'Back Of The Bottom Drawer' and 'Bumper of My SUV' hit #1 and #3 on KZLA's Top 20 Countdown survey.

KZLA does play CD cuts from established artists, including McGraw's 'Telluride' & 'Angel Boy', as well as Keith Urban's equally rambunctious 'You Look Good In My Shirt'.

'Tiny Dancer' and Faith Hill's 'When The Lights Go Down' were also top-five singles at KZLA, although they ignored 'She's My Kind Of Rain' in favor of 'Tiny Dancer' as 'SMKOR' climbed to #1.

They're still playing the Dixie Chicks as well.

While KZLA is playing lots of new material from lots of newcomers (all three of Rachel Proctor's singles), as well as Katrina Elam, SugarLand, Blaine Larsen and numerous others, the station remains unlistenable for large period of times because of all of the clutter and screaming contained in their VERY annoying sweepers and promos.

Sodomizing your listener's eardrums is NO way to build a radio station, and ignoring singles by superstars is even worse.

If Ms. Twain does indeed have the most tunes in KZLA's library, then that could be part of the reason for their dreadful and falling ratings; too many recurrents, ignorning singles by proven superstars, and having a very dull morning show, which is a MAJOR sin in the nation's most competitive and closely watched radio market.

The half-dozen most played artists on 'After Midnite' are Tim, Kenny, Toby, Alan, George & B&D; Ms. Twain is certainly among the top 15, but the fact that she has more cuts in KZLA's library than any of those artist I've just mentioned isn't good either.

The format has unmistakeably shifted VERY deliberately back to its tradition-based roots in the past three-and-one- years since Sept. 11th 2001, and Ms Twain, whose roots are NOT based on traditional sounding country music, appears to be out of step, in spite of her consistently solid CD sales since then.

[drock89]

I can tell you aren't a Shania fan, and that's fine, you made excellent points!

[Marv]

I like a LOT of Shania's music; 'Love Gets Me Every Time' flat-out blew my doors off the first time I heard it, and I still like it.

I don't really consider either 'Don't' or 'It Only Hurts When I'm Breathing' to be country songs, but those are two exceptional songs, especially the latter.

My primary point remains the fact that today's programmers don't trust their listeners, or respect them either; to assume that a pre-selected cluster of 250-500 listeners can have such overwhelming influence on what does and does not get played is asking for trouble.

It seems that having guts if you're a PD (which R J Curtis of KZLA certainly does) doesn't do much good if your station is hamstrung by having ONE-THIRD of a typical hour cluttered by commercials and promos which are as obnoxious as anything imagineable.

KZLA and LOTS of other country stations out there can be fixed VERY easily, but most of the PDs (or at least a huge percentage of them) have their hands tied by some research-addicted dweeb sitting in a cubicle studying graphs and charts.

It should be obvious that when you put the needs of Wall Street ahead of the needs of your customers or listeners, regardless of the product you're presenting, promoting or selling, the customers usually get the short end of the stick; look no farther than the American automobile industry.

[Deleted]

There are many problems with Country radio stations.  Most of the problems are shared by all of the Country stations.

Here are just some of the Major problems:

1.[/size]  You can already tell who/what song will reach # 1 or Top 5 even before a song is released.

Some artists could release a recording of themselves Burping the alphabet, or just burping for no reason, and have it go Top 5 or # 1.

Being "too pop," "not country enough" or even being a good/bad or downright horrible song all have nothing to do with the charts.

How well a song does has more to do with the Name of the artist and/or the amount of Money behind the song.

I can tell you right now who will have a Top 5 or # 1 hit - it's always the same people.

2.[/size]  Too much repetition.

I've lost track of how many times I have turned on a country radio station, heard a song that I didn't like, turned the station - only to hear the Same song on another country station.

Not to mention the fact that I don't need to hear Kenny, Tim, Alan, Gretchen, Rascal Flatts and Martina at least 3 times every hour!

It's the same people getting played all of the time. >:(

3.[/size]  A lack of a variety of FEMALE artists getting airplay.

When about 17 songs out of 20 on the radio are all by MALE artists (solo and band), I think that's far too many!

The only 3 spots slated for FEMALE artists out of those 20 are always the same people:  Gretchen Wilson, Martina McBride and, right now, an exchange of airplay for Lee Ann Womack and LeAnn Rimes to finish of that final spot in the Top 20.

The rest of the female acts get the scraps of airplay time leftover.

That's just pathetic.

4.[/size]  Too much corruption going on.

If a radio station does not Like an artist, often times that artist gets Little-to-Zero airplay.

I've lost count of the number of Nasty, Hateful e-mails I've seen from various country radio station DJs and Station Managers sent out in regard to simple requests.

I've said this before, but I'll say this again:

It should NOT be about what/who radio stations want to play...it should be about what the FANS want to Hear!