🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Feb 17, 2021 10:42:41 GMT -5
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Feb 17, 2021 11:19:29 GMT -5
It should be noted they posted this, deleted it, then reposted it after MJ fans cried they were trying to erase Michael’s legacy. Glad billboard learned their lesson 🤜🏾
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Feb 17, 2021 14:17:20 GMT -5
It should be noted they posted this, deleted it, then reposted it after MJ fans cried they were trying to erase Michael’s legacy. Glad billboard learned their lesson 🤜🏾 Wow! Had no idea. That was so foul of them.
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jumpb4uthink
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Post by jumpb4uthink on Apr 1, 2021 14:33:31 GMT -5
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Apr 10, 2021 15:52:20 GMT -5
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Unhinged
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Post by Unhinged on Apr 17, 2021 20:43:33 GMT -5
His run from 1979 to 1995 is just amazing. 16 years and just 5 studio albums but not one under 8x platinum. I’m sure he’ll eventually have 5 diamond albums.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 7:51:25 GMT -5
It could’ve been 1979-2009 had Invincible in ‘01 had been handled better. If he got his usual five singles all with big promotion and the respect he deserved plus a world tour I could see him being very successful until the day he died.
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Carlitoz
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Post by Carlitoz on Apr 18, 2021 14:26:02 GMT -5
It could’ve been 1979-2009 had Invincible in ‘01 had been handled better. If he got his usual five singles all with big promotion and the respect he deserved plus a world tour I could see him being very successful until the day he died. Was there potential for five successful singles from that album?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 18:36:30 GMT -5
Yes.
You Rock My World Butterflies Unbreakable (ft. Notorious BIG) Break Of Dawn Cry
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Carlitoz
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Post by Carlitoz on Apr 18, 2021 18:44:02 GMT -5
Yes. You Rock My World Butterflies Unbreakable (ft. Notorious BIG) Break Of Dawn Cry Thanks. I’ll listen to them. Other than the 2 first singles, I don’t recall the rest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 19:46:51 GMT -5
The poorly promoted singles were- 1. You Rock My World 2. Butterflies 3. Cry
MJ wanted Break Of Dawn but the label didn’t release it. Unbreakable could’ve definitely been a single as well.
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Carlitoz
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Post by Carlitoz on Apr 18, 2021 21:52:04 GMT -5
I liked Michael from Off The Wall all the way to 1995’s HIStory and I’m pretty familiar with all those albums. Lost interest fully with Blood On The Dance Floor. I didn’t like his way of singing there at all anymore. So when his Invincible album came out like 4 years later I wasn’t really that excited. Kind of indifferent actually. And worse when I saw the video for You Rock My World. Even though I did like the song, it bothered me how little he had evolved. He was stuck in the Smooth Criminal look and to me still doing basically a lot of already super known dance steps. There wasn’t streaming those days. Was it still the Napster days? That’s how I got the two first singles I think. I wasn’t willing to pay $10 for his album. In previous years I would’ve bought the album the first day out without previously listening to any of it. I finally listened to Invincible several years after and wasn’t really impressed, BUT now with Spotify perhaps I give it one more listen this week. Hopefully I discover something I had not noticed the first time.
Btw, what’s going on with any new releases??! Is his vault exhausted of good stuff? Is his estate planning ANYTHING?? It’s been a while since the last release.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 7:24:15 GMT -5
Invincible is a hidden gem in his catalogue I think. Songs like Heaven Can Wait, Break Of Dawn, Speechless and Whatever Happens are among my favorites but I also really love the first three songs on it and of course You Rock My World
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Unhinged
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Post by Unhinged on Apr 19, 2021 15:34:18 GMT -5
Last summer during lockdown I (obviously) had a lot of time on my hands and got really invested in the period of MJ's life from 1998-2002. Read everything and anything I could find that related to this time frame from articles, books, personal accounts from musicians that worked with him during this time, quotes from the man himself, etc. and realised that he easily had about 2 albums worth of material he could have released. While many find Invincible uneven (I am not one of those - its underrated af) I was curious what a different era would have been like. One where he had the label support he needed and was able to release what he wanted, when he wanted. Now, while I realize that some of the dates I was able to ascertain (for when the songs were finished/recorded) may be inaccurate (it was over 20 years ago so the personal recollections may not be the best) I tried my best to piece together a 2 album project from the songs that were known to have been at least demoed at the time. All of these are available in some format if anyone is curious in making a similar list. I put together 2 albums in vinyl format, so each would have 2 records with 2 sides with pretty even run times of 70-72 minutes. The “Side 4” is basically the deluxe version of the album (or bonus EP) so the standard editions each have 12 songs.
One album is called Invincible and the other Unbreakable.
"You Rock My World" would have been the first single from Invincible - like it was in 2001 - as it was already recorded by the summer of 1999 and would have a launch in November of that year (which was the original intended release of the actual Invincible). "Unbreakable" would have been the first single from Unbreakable and would have launched in late August of 2001 (the same release date of “You Rock My World” in the real world). I kept the release schedule for “Cry” and “Butterflies” identical to what they actually were at the time and “What More Can I Give” would have had a timely release and been successful. The 2 projects would have been a lead up to his 30th solo anniversary in 2001 with the following (ambitious) singles release schedule:
{Spoiler} You Rock My World (November 9, 1999) 2000 Watts Promo Video (November 24, 1999) Break Of Dawn (February 1, 2000) Invincible (April 18, 2000) We’ve Had Enough (July 18, 2000) She Was Lovin' Me (October 10, 2000) A Place With No Name (January 2, 2001) Escape (April 3, 2001) Unbreakable (August 22, 2001) Cry Late September/01 US Radio Single (December 5, 2001 international single) What More Can I Give September 11th Charity Single (October 23, 2001) Butterflies October/01 US Radio Single (February 8, 2002 international single) Heartbreaker (February 15, 2002) Whatever Happens (May 10, 2002) The Way You Love Me (August 2, 2002) Threatened Promo Video (October 25, 2002) Hollywood Tonight (November 12, 2002)
Some notes: "You Rock My World" cuts the Chris Rock intro on my version of the album as I prefer it this way and in my world the Track Masters Mix w/Jay-Z exists in 1999. "She Was Lovin' Me" is known as "Chicago" but the version I used was actually produced for the album Michael but didn't make the cut so I took a liberty here with the date. I just love this version and feel MJ would have taken the song in a more rock direction as opposed to the Timbaland produced version and its vocal dates from 1999. "A Place With No Name" is the same as the demo version found on Xscape, which dates from 1999. Same goes for "Blue Gangsta" and "Escape" which were both recorded in 98/99. "Beautiful Girl" & "The Way You Love Me" are from The Ultimate Collection and were both recorded in 1999. "Another Day" is the version from Michael but I included it as Lenny Kravitz has stated that it's what he and MJ envisioned when they worked on it together in 1999. "Hollywood Tonight" is the "She's Only 15" version which was originally intended for the album Michael but was replaced with the spoken bridge version and can be found on YouTube. This version keeps most of the orignal stems from the demo recorded in 1999 - 2001. "We Be Ballin'" was originally recorded in 1998 and was intended for a NBA compilation album and was to be used in commercials for NBA's "I Love This Game" campaign but the entire project was shelved due to the player strike that year. It gets included here on the deluxe version of the album or Side 4 of the vinyl release.
Anyhow, this was just for fun and is totally ridiculously fanciful but it was somewhat therapeutic for me to do at the time and I thought I'd share it since the topic of Invincible came up!
INVINCIBLE (December 7, 1999)
70 minutes
Side One
Invincible (4:45) You Rock My World (5:07) Break Of Dawn (5:32) She Was Lovin' Me (4:44)
Side Two
Another Day (3:54) (Michael Jackson ft. Lenny Kravitz) Speechless (3:18) 2000 Watts (4:24) Heaven Can Wait (4:49)
Side Three
Blue Gangsta (4:16) A Place With No Name (4:55) We’ve Had Enough (5:45) Escape (5:44)
Side Four (EP)
We Be Ballin' (4:46) (Ice Cube ft. Michael Jackson & Shaquille O'Neal) Beautiful Girl (4:03) You Rock My World (Track Masters Mix) (3:32) (Michael Jackson ft. Jay-Z)
UNBREAKABLE (October 30, 2001)
70 minutes
Side One
Unbreakable (6:25) (Michael Jackson ft. The Notorious B.I.G.) Hollywood Tonight (5:05) Whatever Happens (4:56) Butterflies (4:40)
Side Two
Heartbreaker (5:10) The Way You Love Me (4:30) You Are My Life (4:33) Cry (5:01)
Side Three
Privacy (5:05) Don’t Walk Away (4:25) The Lost Children (4:00) Threatened (4:19)
Side Four (EP)
What More Can I Give (5:03) (Michael Jackson & The All Stars) Shout (4:17) Butterflies (Track Masters Mix) (3:46) (Michael Jackson ft. Eve)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 16:45:40 GMT -5
That’s an amazing concept! Too bad it wasn’t like that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 16:46:41 GMT -5
What are the most interesting things you discovered in your research? Or the Coles notes of it all?
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Unhinged
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Post by Unhinged on Apr 19, 2021 17:13:27 GMT -5
What are the most interesting things you discovered in your research? Or the Coles notes of it all? Well one of the most interesting things I learned is that there actually did exist in some context a double album idea as the following link demonstrates: Double Album. It’s where I got my idea for the 2 albums. I read that the original intended release date for the project was November 2, 1999 (Lambs will remember this as the release date for Rainbow). If you look at the photos chosen the bottom ones ended up in the album package artwork for what eventually became Invincible. The first image is actually the full photo of what eventually became the Invincible cover. Apparently Sony wasn’t overly impressed with the album(s) so they had him go back in the studio to record more. This is when he recorded tracks like “Unbreakable,” “Whatever Happens” and “Butterflies.” The album was then rescheduled for late 2000 and then again pushed back to late 2001 as MJ kept pushing it back to spend time with his then young children and he continued to record. The final song recorded for the album was “You Are My Life” and MJ liked it so much he swapped it out with “Shout” which almost made the final cut but got relegated to bonus track status on the “Cry” single. MJ also wanted the lead single to be “Unbreakable” but Sony wanted “You Rock My World.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 6:56:04 GMT -5
So interesting! I think push backs always destroy album eras. Unless he found magic like ‘we belong together’ then delaying yet another year wasn’t worth it. Definitely not for You Are My Life. I think an album in the year 2000 would have been the best time to release and also a really paired down track list, maybe heavily Darkchild focused stylisticly.
I wonder if Sony got their way and chose the track list what would it be? Tommy Mottola did have a very good ear, but probably not as good as Michaels.
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on Apr 26, 2021 10:24:09 GMT -5
What are the most interesting things you discovered in your research? Or the Coles notes of it all? Well one of the most interesting things I learned is that there actually did exist in some context a double album idea as the following link demonstrates: Double Album. The final song recorded for the album was “You Are My Life” and MJ liked it so much he swapped it out with “Shout” which almost made the final cut but got relegated to bonus track status on the “Cry” single. MJ also wanted the lead single to be “Unbreakable” but Sony wanted “You Rock My World.” I can't believe "Shout" was nixed for "You Are My Life". I hate his corny ballads like that. "Shout" is 10x better, imo. lol Thanks for the "Invincible" Info! I had no idea about the "double-disc" concept.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 26, 2021 10:33:06 GMT -5
His run from 1979 to 1995 is just amazing. 16 years and just 5 studio albums but not one under 8x platinum. I’m sure he’ll eventually have 5 diamond albums. What are the actual sales of HIStory? That one is of course a double album and also a GH. I wonder what only the disc of new music would have sold.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Apr 26, 2021 16:36:28 GMT -5
Michael Jackson Estate Gets Judge to Toss Wade Robson's Abuse Suit By Ashley Cullins 4/26/2021 Click to copy www.billboard.com/articles/news/9563214/michael-jackson-estate-gets-judge-to-toss-wade-robsons-abuse-suit/Robson's attorney says he'll take the fight to the California Supreme Court if necessary. Michael Jackson's estate has again convinced an L.A. judge that the late performer's businesses can't be sued by Wade Robson over alleged childhood sexual abuse — but the long-running fight may not be over as the choreographer's lawyer has already said they'll appealing the decision. Robson sued in 2013 claiming Jackson sexually abused him for nearly a decade and his companies MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures facilitated the conduct. The estate, which controls the entities, argued it's entitled to summary judgment because the companies owed Robson no legal duty and had no ability to control Jackson's behavior. In a tentative ruling, which was later adopted, L.A. County Superior Court judge Mark A. Young agreed with the estate that it had no relationship with Robson that would create a legal duty for it to protect him from the alleged molestation. "There is no evidence supporting Plaintiff’s contention that Defendants exercised control over Jackson," writes Young. "The evidence further demonstrates that Defendants had no legal ability to control Jackson, because Jackson had complete and total ownership of the corporate defendants. Without control, there is no special relationship or duty that exists between Defendants and Plaintiff. In addition, there is no evidence of misfeasance by Defendants." Judge Mitchell Beckloff had previously dismissed Robson's suit in December 2017, finding that it was filed outside the statute of limitations. It was revived by an appeals court in early 2020 after California enacted a law that extended the age by which people must file sexual assault claims against third parties from 26 to 40. HBO Loses Appellate Bid to Avoid Arbitration with Michael Jackson Estate in 'Leaving Neverland' Dispute Michael Jackson's estate has been represented in the matter by the late Howard Weitzman and Jonathan Steinsapir, who on Monday sent The Hollywood Reporter a statement in response to the decision. “As of today, a summary judgment AGAINST Wade Robson has been granted three different times by two different judges of the Superior Court," says Steinsapir. “Wade Robson has spent the last 8 years pursuing frivolous claims in different lawsuits against Michael Jackson's estate and companies associated with it. Robson has taken nearly three dozen depositions and inspected and presented hundreds of thousands of documents trying to prove his claims, yet a Judge has once again ruled that Robson’s claims have no merit whatsoever, that no trial is necessary and that his latest case is dismissed." Robson's attorney Vince Finaldi on Monday also sent THR a statement. “This decision of Judge Mark A. Young suffers from the same fatal flaws as the prior decision of prior Judge Mitchell Beckloff, which we were able to overturn on appeal," says Finaldi. "For this reason, we will be appealing it to the Court of Appeal, and to the Supreme Court if necessary. If allowed to stand, the decision would set a dangerous precedent that would leave thousands of children working in the entertainment industry vulnerable to sexual abuse by persons in places of power. The children of our state deserve protection, and we will not stop fighting until we insure that every child is safe.”
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Unhinged
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Post by Unhinged on Apr 27, 2021 22:28:44 GMT -5
His run from 1979 to 1995 is just amazing. 16 years and just 5 studio albums but not one under 8x platinum. I’m sure he’ll eventually have 5 diamond albums. What are the actual sales of HIStory? That one is of course a double album and also a GH. I wonder what only the disc of new music would have sold. No idea of HIStory’s actual sales but if anyone wants the 2nd disc on its own here it is.
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on May 8, 2021 20:35:22 GMT -5
Does anyone remember Michael (or, I guess it would be, Rod Temperton) being sued for “Thriller” sounding like another song? A few months ago I actually found the song online and it was from the 70’s and not in English. They did sound cumulative but for the life of me I can’t find the song at all anymore or even info about it! And I swear I’m not going crazy lol
I know that in the 1999 deposition, it was said that “Thriller” copied a song called “Run On Manchild” written by Clifford Rubin, Robert Smith and Reynard Jones but I can’t find any audio on this song so I’m not sure if it’s even related to the song i mentioned in the first paragraph.
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on May 10, 2021 15:18:39 GMT -5
His run from 1979 to 1995 is just amazing. 16 years and just 5 studio albums but not one under 8x platinum. I’m sure he’ll eventually have 5 diamond albums. What are the actual sales of HIStory? That one is of course a double album and also a GH. I wonder what only the disc of new music would have sold. By the end of 95 the double disk sold 1.7 million and the remaining singles released were "Earth Song"-on. I don't think it would have sold much more during it's run. Only "Scream and You Are Not Alone and I guess "They Don't Care about Us" made much noise in the US. I'm speaking just about the US but, I can't imagine all that many more units. It's sales were a little front loaded back then if I remember correctly. I forget how much the double disk cost back then though. I believe I did buy it the day it was released... Now if your speaking of it's whole life span I have no clue?
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on May 10, 2021 17:37:42 GMT -5
Does anyone remember Michael (or, I guess it would be, Rod Temperton) being sued for “Thriller” sounding like another song? A few months ago I actually found the song online and it was from the 70’s and not in English. They did sound cumulative but for the life of me I can’t find the song at all anymore or even info about it! And I swear I’m not going crazy lol I know that in the 1999 deposition, it was said that “Thriller” copied a song called “Run On Manchild” written by Clifford Rubin, Robert Smith and Reynard Jones but I can’t find any audio on this song so I’m not sure if it’s even related to the song i mentioned in the first paragraph. Yay! I found it. It’s called “Exorcismo” by Luixy Toledo youtu.be/hDC4R6f86OU
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on May 10, 2021 18:01:35 GMT -5
What are the actual sales of HIStory? That one is of course a double album and also a GH. I wonder what only the disc of new music would have sold. By the end of 95 the double disk sold 1.7 million and the remaining singles released were "Earth Song"-on. I don't think it would have sold much more during it's run. Only "Scream and You Are Not Alone and I guess "They Don't Care about Us" made much noise in the US. I'm speaking just about the US but, I can't imagine all that many more units. It's sales were a little front loaded back then if I remember correctly. I forget how much the double disk cost back then though. I believe I did buy it the day it was released... Now if your speaking of it's whole life span I have no clue? On this Sony Japan site, if translated, there is an entry on October 3,2003 that says it sold 4 million in the US. Not sure how accurate that is since it also says “dangerous” sold 8 million, which I don’t think was accurate in 2003. www.sonymusic.co.jp/Music/International/Arch/ES/MichaelJackson/m_info.html
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on May 10, 2021 19:20:20 GMT -5
By the end of 95 the double disk sold 1.7 million and the remaining singles released were "Earth Song"-on. I don't think it would have sold much more during it's run. Only "Scream and You Are Not Alone and I guess "They Don't Care about Us" made much noise in the US. I'm speaking just about the US but, I can't imagine all that many more units. It's sales were a little front loaded back then if I remember correctly. I forget how much the double disk cost back then though. I believe I did buy it the day it was released... Now if your speaking of it's whole life span I have no clue? On this Sony Japan site, if translated, there is an entry on October 3,2003 that says it sold 4 million in the US. Not sure how accurate that is since it also says “dangerous” sold 8 million, which I don’t think was accurate in 2003. www.sonymusic.co.jp/Music/International/Arch/ES/MichaelJackson/m_info.htmlSince it's a double album that 4 million might have meant 2 million sold. The RIAA cert of 8 million means 4 million shipped of the set. I wonder if it actually got near 4 million sold.
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meg
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Post by meg on Jun 25, 2021 4:11:05 GMT -5
It's been 12 years since Michael Jackson passed.
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Jun 25, 2021 8:09:59 GMT -5
My God! 12 years already!
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Jul 27, 2021 12:03:00 GMT -5
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