Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 13:10:37 GMT -5
Key difference is that LA Reid is no longer there. I kind of wonder if LA's absence is the reason this era has been such a mess with the never-ending singles and moving release date. E=MC2 and MOAIA weren't runaway smashes but at least the promotion for those albums was decently organized and the lead singles performed well. They didn't always agree on single choices but Reid kept her focused, or at least that is how it seemed. Mariah might have no qualms about throwing the label under the bus for this one last era, but if so she would do it indirectly - instead of talking about how awful the label was for her she'd maybe go out of her way to sing LA's praises and how much she missed him when he left. At the end of the day, those things still fall on Mariah. Reid may have kept her more focused (my bet is just that she liked/trusted him more, so she was more willing to work with him), but at the end of the day Mariah is still the most directly responsible. She is the one who delayed the album last year, and she is the one who wanted "Triumphant" and "TAOLG" released. The label conceded on "T," which may have been a mistake in one sense, but may have served a purpose in another sense (like being a goodwill gesture to Mariah). The label clearly refused to support "TAOLG," so Mariah and JD went rogue on that one. You can't blame the label for that. Eh, I'm not saying *I* would 'blame the label' necessarily. I've said before that I feel like Mariah and the label are not on the same page and won't pretend that I am 100% convinced Mariah's blameless in that. She's stubborn and flighty at the same time, and I'm not even sure she knows exactly what she wants at the moment. But whether it is on the label or Mariah's own hangups, I think LA was that rare person who kept Mariah's feet on the ground a bit more, and there may not be anyone at IDJ who is able to do that now. Certainly not anyone in her camp, she surrounds herself with yes-men.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 28, 2014 14:40:38 GMT -5
Has this been discussed somewhere? VH1 is doing a series called The Tanning of America focusing on different aspects of the influence of hip-hop. Mariah is featured in the "Gimme The Loot" hour. They discuss her working with hip-hop in the last segment of the episode.
It mentions how Mariah was introduced as America's Sweetheart, and had questions about her race. Brett Ratner says she was painted as a bubblegum artist, and Mariah said the label didn't promote her the way it would a black artist. Mariah mentions the loop in "Dreamlover," and then the "Fantasy" remix is discussed. Ratner mentions how she went for the rapper who was the most opposite from her image. Mariah said it was her idea, and she reached out to Puff. Mariah said it was about doing the music she loved. In regards to "Fantasy" she mentions the pop version being on pop stations, but says people say "Me and Mariah go back like babies on pacifiahs" to her. She also notes that people don't tell her they love the pop version. The way she said that last thing shows clear disdain for the pop version, actually. The Lisa Lopes "hip-pop" thing is shown, too.
They also showed an old pic of her with Tony Bennett with both holding mics. What was that from?
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 28, 2014 14:45:13 GMT -5
I don't think you can blame the label per se as Mariah is responsible for giving them product they can market. If Mariah is going to give them little to work with, then she or anyone for that matter can't be shocked at the results. If Mariah didn't make say a Bye Bye, The Art of Letting Go, Triumphant, or I Want to Know What Love Is to begin with for her albums, they would never have been options to release to the public period. It is all about quality of songs, and that she has been very hit or miss on for the past 2 years. I mean of the 5 songs released in those 2 years only one to me stands the test of time #Beautiful and the other 4 range from slightly above average to awful.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Feb 28, 2014 14:45:58 GMT -5
^They did a duet on his duets album, so maybe from that?
I prefer the regular version of "Fantasy"- the ODB version is fine for what it is, but without the pop chorus, it's lacking.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 28, 2014 16:59:27 GMT -5
^They did a duet on his duets album, so maybe from that? No, it's clearly an older photo based on how she looks (i.e. younger and not pregnant). While I can understand Mariah preferring the remix (for several reasons), I don't really get her shade of the original version. The album version is pretty R&B on its own; it's a pure pop/urban hybrid. I'm still pretty amazed she got a song with that much urban influence to be a top 10 AC hit at that time.
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Gold Soundz
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Post by Gold Soundz on Feb 28, 2014 17:57:45 GMT -5
LA Reid might not have chosen the best singles, but like Cynthia said, he kept her on track. The album is predominated by ballads. Is anyone here for an album of ballads aside from hardcore lambs? I kind of doubt it. Mariah's best singles have been her midtempo/uptempo affairs post-Sony, imo.
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 28, 2014 18:38:55 GMT -5
I actually prefer most of Mariah's uptempo/midtempo work to her ballads. Most of her ballads that I like actually are from her debut, Emotions, Daydream, and Butterfly eras. There are only a couple I like from her post Butterfly work really, but she really lost her way with her ballads for the most part I would say after Glitter. I forgot there were a couple of gems on that disc. I would say the problem is most of her ballads now are so devoid of personality or emotion and the production dates even faster than her way back in the day work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 18:54:12 GMT -5
We Belong Together GREATEST Mariah ballad ever!!
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Feb 28, 2014 18:57:04 GMT -5
I don't doubt she'll sell around 300-400k but I wouldn't be surprised if she still gets a Gold certification just from shipments like Fantasia did. Especially since Mimi, and her team, is so chart minded. Wait! You actually typed this?? Especially since Mimi, and her team, is so chart minded.Thank you! PS: Fantasia's last 2 albums have not been certified Gold. Back To me is at 485k so it should be Gold.
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lambdoll
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Post by lambdoll on Feb 28, 2014 21:35:23 GMT -5
Looks like we'll never see her ever again. :'( Goodbye forever Mariah. :'( :'(
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Post by die Lotterie on Feb 28, 2014 22:19:49 GMT -5
She looks amazing!
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Feb 28, 2014 22:23:50 GMT -5
I hope this album has Memoirs level of writing with big E=MC^2 hooks. I relistened to E=MC^2 and damn the hooks were alive on that album.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Mar 1, 2014 0:11:55 GMT -5
I hope this album has Memoirs level of writing with big E=MC^2 hooks. I relistened to E=MC^2 and damn the hooks were alive on that album. "Cruise Control" trips me out with how many hooks there are! It's like one chorus after another
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 0:24:04 GMT -5
I don't doubt she'll sell around 300-400k but I wouldn't be surprised if she still gets a Gold certification just from shipments like Fantasia did. Especially since Mimi, and her team, is so chart minded. Wait! You actually typed this?? Especially since Mimi, and her team, is so chart minded.Thank you! PS: Fantasia's last 2 albums have not been certified Gold. Back To me is at 485k so it should be Gold. You say this like its bad isn't most teams and popular artists chart minded and p.s *lol as for chart minded so are you btw!* If Mariah was as chart minded as people say there is another avenue she could've taken since 2009 which she chose not to do for the sake of doing what she preferred musically. Maybe the old queens are still living in the Mottola days?
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Gold Soundz
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Post by Gold Soundz on Mar 1, 2014 1:25:50 GMT -5
She's traveling by Megabus now?
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Post by Positive Tension on Mar 1, 2014 1:29:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that an album full of ballads isn't all that exciting. Doesn't she realize that most of her ballads post-TEOM have flopped? I'm not sure she really knows what the fans want. At least "You're Mine" is still gaining. If it tops out at 20 million audience impressions, I'd be more than happy. Plus, it's cool that Taylor and Beyonce like the song.
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Post by neverduplicated on Mar 1, 2014 3:05:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that an album full of ballads isn't all that exciting. Doesn't she realize that most of her ballads post-TEOM have flopped? I'm not sure she really knows what the fans want. At least "You're Mine" is still gaining. If it tops out at 20 million audience impressions, I'd be more than happy. Plus, it's cool that Taylor and Beyonce like the song. Where did you read/hear that Taylor and Beyonce like the song?
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Post by Me.I Am Panda on Mar 1, 2014 5:29:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that an album full of ballads isn't all that exciting. Doesn't she realize that most of her ballads post-TEOM have flopped? I'm not sure she really knows what the fans want. At least "You're Mine" is still gaining. If it tops out at 20 million audience impressions, I'd be more than happy. Plus, it's cool that Taylor and Beyonce like the song. Where did you read/hear that Taylor and Beyonce like the song? add YM to their YouTube playlist. of course, maybe somebody else did that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 13:19:24 GMT -5
Well I do think Mariah Carey and this album are in good hands. Look at this list of the top 25 A&R people in hip-hop history. The Top 5 alone has had two men in charge of Mariah's career at some point. On a side note: I would love Mariah to have her next album be produced by Rick Rubin and have a stripped down, raw musically driven album. His work with hip hop acts and Adele alike excite me! (it would probably completely change her polished Diva image but I do think it would be the real authentic follow up to Butterfly) www.complexmag.ca/music/2013/02/the-25-greatest-hip-hop-ars-ever/barry-weiss
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 13:42:32 GMT -5
Lyor had no idea what to do with her. I credit LA Reid immensely for her comeback. He had the perfect vision for how to bring her back and really took a risk in making her the label's priority after 2 flop albums.
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Mar 1, 2014 13:54:59 GMT -5
It goes to show that it really does help Mariah to have someone say this isn't right get back in the studio or you need to make some tweaks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 14:11:51 GMT -5
It goes to show that it really does help Mariah to have someone say this isn't right get back in the studio or you need to make some tweaks. Nobody did that for Glitter cause Virgin records was in a mess back then. And I think she had no consultations during Charmbracelet either because she did the whole album before even getting signed to Island. Do you think Barry Weiss will have a positive impact on this album?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Mar 1, 2014 14:14:46 GMT -5
It's also about Mariah trusting the label person, though. If she sees them as a Tommy-type, she isn't going to listen even if they have a point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 14:21:50 GMT -5
In that link I posted up there^ it lists Barry Weiss as #1 in A&R for what he did with JIVE. He's been in the top 5 of every article regarding label men. She would be foolish not to trust his expertise. At least with this album and if it doesn't work out then she would reason not to trust him, but to not trust him right off that bat would be awful for her career at this point. She did mention he was in the MTV studio when they premiered the new video so that's positive!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 14:28:24 GMT -5
Mariah hasn't scanned over a million copies of an album or had multiple Top 10 hits from one album in several years. It doesn't matter what Barry has accomplished in the past; I doubt he's making her a priority. Not to mention, this is the third single the label has pushed before the project has even come out. I don't know what people expect from the label at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 14:38:15 GMT -5
Gold is still impressive. And something to talk about at their annual shareholder meetings so if they want Mariah to go gold with the new album they better have a plan and make sure the songs are tight!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 14:51:12 GMT -5
She's been experiencing diminishing returns though. Memoirs scanned 500k five years ago with a Top 10 hit. The label has already pushed 3 different singles prior to the album coming out, and none have done close to as well as "Obsessed". There's no way they're making her a priority at IDJ. She'd need an LA Reid case where the label is taking a huge risk with her. Now that she's in her mid-40s, it's even more risky. Anyway, there's been no evidence the label has made her a top priority anyway.
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Post by Positive Tension on Mar 1, 2014 15:45:29 GMT -5
Speaking of Memoirs, I still am a bit surprised at how low the first week sales were, especially considering all the hype surrounding her the previous year and considering that "Obsessed" was a hit. She wasn't going to stay on top forever, but even though the E=MC2 era ended abruptly, I didn't think the era would've damaged her that much to where, in 2009, the hype/interest seemed to diminish dramatically.
OTOH, since 2010 or so, critics finally seem to be giving her overall catalogue and impact far more praise/credit than in the past. Before that, it wouldn't be unusual to read about how they felt her songs sounded similar and how unsure they were that they'd hold up over time, but thankfully that's not really a question anymore.
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mikeshere
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Post by mikeshere on Mar 1, 2014 16:29:33 GMT -5
We have 2 months until the album release. If she and her "team" were smart? they would let this run for another 4 to 6 weeks then drop an Up-tempo Banger and do the radio interviews again, have billboard/iheart radio listening parties. GMA Summer Concert Series is coming up. Jimmy Fallon etc. She needs to go balls to the wall with the next up-tempo single she has. Remix it like she did in the 90s. Resung vocals and a dif beat. for the urban and club mixes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 17:03:14 GMT -5
I feel like we'll either get a perfectly executed album release with all the right promo spots, performances and moves being made to get her name out there and get people interested in the music again OR we're just going to get this album thrown at the wall and left to sink or swim on its own with minimal push from the label or Mariah.
It's hard to say which way it will go. You're Mine's release suggests the former but the era's overall messiness suggests the latter.
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