The Northern Star⭐
6x Platinum Member
I'll follow you from here like you're the Northern Star....
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 6,653
|
Post by The Northern Star⭐ on Oct 20, 2020 16:56:40 GMT -5
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 20, 2020 18:17:15 GMT -5
Another great review, this time from The New Yorker
|
|
cking33
Gold Member
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 953
|
Post by cking33 on Oct 20, 2020 18:58:28 GMT -5
It’s interesting to see how huge the Butterfly/Rainbow singles were on Urban/Rhythmic/Urban AC, when they’re often considered to have “underperformed” at radio, when it really was just a difference with Pop radio. Yeah, I always viewed those singles (even though she ended up with 4 No. 1s) as a step below many of her others when it came to chart performances, but as I learned more about how the charts were constructed you see those were bigger hits than pop radio would have you believe. Pop radio is not the be all, end all, haha. Like "My All," for instance, I went back and looked at its chart run. SONY did a good job timing the release of the single in stores so that it maximized its chart peak. But it hardly pulled a "Loverboy" where it charted really high for a week or two because of strong sales and then tumbled down the charts. This was its initial chart run in the top 10: 2-2-1-2-4-4-4-4-4-8-9-9. A solid two months in the top 5 and another month in the top 10. It was a big hit. Maybe not 16 weeks at No. 1 big, but a big hit nonetheless.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2020 19:00:30 GMT -5
I like when I see her debut get a bump in sales cause I've been waiting for them to certify it 10x platinum already instead of being stuck at 9 for years!.
|
|
|
Post by Positive Tension on Oct 20, 2020 21:36:50 GMT -5
It’s interesting to see how huge the Butterfly/Rainbow singles were on Urban/Rhythmic/Urban AC, when they’re often considered to have “underperformed” at radio, when it really was just a difference with Pop radio. Yeah, I always viewed those singles (even though she ended up with 4 No. 1s) as a step below many of her others when it came to chart performances, but as I learned more about how the charts were constructed you see those were bigger hits than pop radio would have you believe. Pop radio is not the be all, end all, haha. Like "My All," for instance, I went back and looked at its chart run. SONY did a good job timing the release of the single in stores so that it maximized its chart peak. But it hardly pulled a "Loverboy" where it charted really high for a week or two because of strong sales and then tumbled down the charts. This was its initial chart run in the top 10: 2-2-1-2-4-4-4-4-4-8-9-9. A solid two months in the top 5 and another month in the top 10. It was a big hit. Maybe not 16 weeks at No. 1 big, but a big hit nonetheless. Wow, I never knew "My All" spent all that time in the top ten. I always thought that in terms of the charts it was one of her weaker number one hits, but that's an impressive hold.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 20, 2020 22:17:04 GMT -5
I finished Mariah's book a few days ago and I have to say, it might have been one of, if not the best biography I've ever read. The way the book itself was written was very conversational but not simplistic. Like, you could tell somebody with a great sense of language wrote it and while most bios would have solid editors and such, Mariah's hand obviously wrote those words because they matched the style of her song lyrics, which I'm going to admit, I've never really dug into before but it's something I've seen mentioned on here a few times and on social media by those defending her as a songwriter. She really does use a lot of words that just don't work in songs - yet they do in hers. She's a very meticulous writer and it made reading her book that much more rewarding. As for the story itself, it was heartbreaking. When the book was announced, I remember telling my bf that I kind of expected it to be a glaze of her career and achievements with maybe some juicy bits but otherwise be pretty fluffy - apparently I knew nothing. Her upbringing, the first decade of her career - everything was so heartbreaking. I had no idea her marriage to Tommy was like that. Granted, I'd never really looked into it because I generally don't have much interest in the personal lives of celebrities (unless it's in a bio form apparently) but when she was going to perform at some show during the Music Box era and she had no idea how famous she really was based on the police presence, I was shocked. Being watched 24/7. That's crazy to me, and because she'd never really had a real connection with anyone in her life, of course she wouldn't know what to do about it because she had no one. I can't imagine how it must feel to be that level of trapped and not have a way out of it. Reading it probably changed my outlook on her songs. I haven't yet gone back to listen to anything through the new lens but the story behind how Butterfly came to be, I now know why it's an album held in such high regard and totally get why it's such a drastic change in sound from her earlier records. I'll always love Always Be My Baby and her earlier hits like Dreamlover, but I think I might be inspired to really dig into Butterfly the album more (I've owned it for over 20 years so it's not new to me anyway lol). Also, the story behind the ODB mix of Fantasy is amazing too. There didn't seem to be much told after the comeback though. Maybe there wasn't much to tell, or maybe it was cut because it wasn't as interesting as the stuff before. The Eminem stuff, the making of the hits from the last couple albums, etc. Was there anything there worth mentioning I wonder? I'll forgive the error where she refers to I'll Be There as her fifth #1, but I'm not sure I fully agree with her shaming of Celine during Divas Live. Even my bf, the Mariah stan, doesn't really agree as he said he rewatched that performance a week or so ago and said it looked like Aretha was inviting the other divas to step up and Celine was the only one to accept the challenge. Plus, I figure where Mariah probably grew up with Aretha as her one true goddess, Celine likely didn't see her in the same light, so I'm not sure it was the intended disrespect Mariah seemed to see. Maybe Celine will write a bio (or have someone write one for her lol) and we can see her side of it (I'd LOVE a Celine bio btw). So final verdict: I have a newfound respect for Mariah as an artist. So much has been made clear. And I wish she would revisit the sound she found on #BEAUTIFUL. Also drag, no. That's all.
|
|
colson
Diamond Member
Joined: February 2006
Posts: 17,559
|
Post by colson on Oct 21, 2020 5:03:31 GMT -5
I like when I see her debut get a bump in sales cause I've been waiting for them to certify it 10x platinum already instead of being stuck at 9 for years!. THIS. I wonder if it's even close to 10x? It hasn't been certified in over 2 decades. I hope it's not going to take another 2 decades to get certified again. But having this "eventually" make it to 10x will be the cherry on top.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,420
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 21, 2020 7:48:13 GMT -5
It’s interesting to see how huge the Butterfly/Rainbow singles were on Urban/Rhythmic/Urban AC, when they’re often considered to have “underperformed” at radio, when it really was just a difference with Pop radio. Yeah, I always viewed those singles (even though she ended up with 4 No. 1s) as a step below many of her others when it came to chart performances, but as I learned more about how the charts were constructed you see those were bigger hits than pop radio would have you believe. Pop radio is not the be all, end all, haha. Like "My All," for instance, I went back and looked at its chart run. SONY did a good job timing the release of the single in stores so that it maximized its chart peak. But it hardly pulled a "Loverboy" where it charted really high for a week or two because of strong sales and then tumbled down the charts. This was its initial chart run in the top 10: 2-2-1-2-4-4-4-4-4-8-9-9. A solid two months in the top 5 and another month in the top 10. It was a big hit. Maybe not 16 weeks at No. 1 big, but a big hit nonetheless. It was also big on TRL (may have been called Total Request Live then). Positive Tension When Billboard compiled Mariah's 25 biggest Hot 100 hits 5 or so years ago, "My All" was #14 on her list. I'd assume "AIWFCIY" has past it since then, but "My All" was above her #1s Honey, Don't Forget About Us, I'll Be There, Heartbreaker, Touch My Body, and TGIFY.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,420
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 21, 2020 7:56:05 GMT -5
THIS. I wonder if it's even close to 10x? It hasn't been certified in over 2 decades. I hope it's not going to take another 2 decades to get certified again. But having this "eventually" make it to 10x will be the cherry on top. The tough thing with the debut is it pre-dates Soundscan, so it's hard to tell. It has sold 4.9 million in the Soundscan era, but it had 20 or so weeks in the top 10 pre-Soundscan so its total could be more like 7 million. It sold over 400k via Columbia House.
|
|
colson
Diamond Member
Joined: February 2006
Posts: 17,559
|
Post by colson on Oct 21, 2020 8:18:19 GMT -5
Shouldn't Daydream and TEOM be up for new cert?
|
|
#LisaRinna
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 42,126
|
Post by #LisaRinna on Oct 21, 2020 10:18:23 GMT -5
10/24 Billboard charts
Top Album Sales 8 40 The Rarities 89 64 Mariah Carey
Top Current Album Sales 8 25 The Rarities
Vinyl Albums 25 21 Mariah Carey
Top Holiday Albums 6 6 Merry Christmas
|
|
Relaxing Cup
Diamond Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 14,673
|
Post by Relaxing Cup on Oct 21, 2020 10:39:40 GMT -5
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 21, 2020 12:20:29 GMT -5
I think she sounds hot, love the ethereal whistle in the background.
|
|
Jay D83
4x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 4,499
|
Post by Jay D83 on Oct 21, 2020 12:22:10 GMT -5
From the music, to his rap, to Mimi's vocals, he should've just called this "I Know What You Want - Part II".
|
|
kmbgs
7x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 7,229
|
Post by kmbgs on Oct 21, 2020 12:29:56 GMT -5
Idk why I similarly had the impression that My All was a bit of a flop #1 for her (that's intentional irony) so I am glad to see it was actually a bit of a massive it. With time it's become one of my favorite songs of all time. J. Lo's too!
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 21, 2020 12:58:45 GMT -5
Idk why I similarly had the impression that My All was a bit of a flop #1 for her (that's intentional irony) so I am glad to see it was actually a bit of a massive it. With time it's become one of my favorite songs of all time. J. Lo's too!That validates it, thank God 🙏
|
|
cking33
Gold Member
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 953
|
Post by cking33 on Oct 21, 2020 14:38:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I always viewed those singles (even though she ended up with 4 No. 1s) as a step below many of her others when it came to chart performances, but as I learned more about how the charts were constructed you see those were bigger hits than pop radio would have you believe. Pop radio is not the be all, end all, haha. Like "My All," for instance, I went back and looked at its chart run. SONY did a good job timing the release of the single in stores so that it maximized its chart peak. But it hardly pulled a "Loverboy" where it charted really high for a week or two because of strong sales and then tumbled down the charts. This was its initial chart run in the top 10: 2-2-1-2-4-4-4-4-4-8-9-9. A solid two months in the top 5 and another month in the top 10. It was a big hit. Maybe not 16 weeks at No. 1 big, but a big hit nonetheless. It was also big on TRL (may have been called Total Request Live then). Positive Tension When Billboard compiled Mariah's 25 biggest Hot 100 hits 5 or so years ago, "My All" was #14 on her list. I'd assume "AIWFCIY" has past it since then, but "My All" was above her #1s Honey, Don't Forget About Us, I'll Be There, Heartbreaker, Touch My Body, and TGIFY. The other thing to consider with "My All" was that it was competing for the No. 1 spot against Next's "Too Close," which ended up being the No. 1 song for the year in 1998. So even though it only got one week in at No. 1, it had to work to get there. Those weeks when it debuted at No. 2 before eventually rising to No. 1 were very stressful for pre-teenage years me lol.
|
|
|
Post by The Black Bird on Oct 21, 2020 14:50:25 GMT -5
Didn't the "My All" single release suffer from street-date violations as well?
Last year someone posted the complete BB magazine archives, there was an article there from '98 talking about it.
|
|
colson
Diamond Member
Joined: February 2006
Posts: 17,559
|
Post by colson on Oct 21, 2020 14:52:19 GMT -5
It was also big on TRL (may have been called Total Request Live then). Positive Tension When Billboard compiled Mariah's 25 biggest Hot 100 hits 5 or so years ago, "My All" was #14 on her list. I'd assume "AIWFCIY" has past it since then, but "My All" was above her #1s Honey, Don't Forget About Us, I'll Be There, Heartbreaker, Touch My Body, and TGIFY. The other thing to consider with "My All" was that it was competing for the No. 1 spot against Next's "Too Close," which ended up being the No. 1 song for the year in 1998. So even though it only got one week in at No. 1, it had to work to get there. Those weeks when it debuted at No. 2 before eventually rising to No. 1 were very stressful for pre-teenage years me lol. Not to mention, the dominance of The Boy is Mine soon thereafter.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 15:08:43 GMT -5
She used to catch flack for those late 90s #1s not being huge radio hits (they were still radio hits) and getting to #1 because she could sell tons of singles.. fast forward to 2020 and there have been a bunch of Hot 100 #1s that went to #1 with huge first week streaming and then tumbled down the chart without recovering.. makes the criticism seem even sillier now because those songs were hits even if they weren’t big Pop hits.
|
|
kmbgs
7x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 7,229
|
Post by kmbgs on Oct 21, 2020 15:16:17 GMT -5
Fact! I remember articles deriding her airplay #s going down starting at Honey. But that actually doesn't mean her songs weren't successful at the formats they were sent to - they just weren't smashes at every single format simultaneously (like her AC/Pop hits were).
The libel!
Also - she was truly ahead of her time with the R&B shift - with the rising audiences after she literally started the trend, her songs probably would have had similar airplay peaks with just Rhythmic/Urban support as they did with Pop/AC/Hot AC support earlier in the 90s, if they were released once those formats really took off in the early 00s.
|
|
Ernesto
7x Platinum Member
Joined: December 2019
Posts: 7,877
|
Post by Ernesto on Oct 21, 2020 15:39:34 GMT -5
Idk why I similarly had the impression that My All was a bit of a flop #1 for her (that's intentional irony) so I am glad to see it was actually a bit of a massive it. With time it's become one of my favorite songs of all time. J. Lo's too!That validates it, thank God 🙏 This response haha! Anyway, one thing I really love about "My All" is its subtle use of acoustic guitar and mild percussion. The song has the kind of latin american sound that is not forced but feels organic and helps the listener focus on the longing and desperation that her voice conveys so understatedly. By the time she belts that last chorus you're in heaven reveling on the fact that you can relate to what she is singing. It's quite a gorgeous record.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 15:41:24 GMT -5
Fact! I remember articles deriding her airplay #s going down starting at Honey. But that actually doesn't mean her songs weren't successful at the formats they were sent to - they just weren't smashes at every single format simultaneously (like her AC/Pop hits were). The libel! Also - she was truly ahead of her time with the R&B shift - with the rising audiences after she literally started the trend, her songs probably would have had similar airplay peaks with just Rhythmic/Urban support as they did with Pop/AC/Hot AC support earlier in the 90s, if they were released once those formats really took off in the early 00s. Yeah, I think "Honey" peaked at #11 in Airplay which was seen as a huge underperformance for her but the Hot 100 Airplay chart didn't even factor in Urban radio at the time and it was a big hit at Urban radio. "Honey" actually ended up with a lower Hot 100 Airplay peak than "Heartbreaker" despite "Honey" being the bigger radio hit ("Honey" went Top 10 at Pop radio and "Heartbreaker" didn't even go Top 20 there) because Urban radio was factored into Hot 100 Airplay by the time "Heartbreaker" was released.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 21, 2020 16:56:40 GMT -5
I remember Honey peaking just inside the top 10 on pop, and then Butterfly stopped at #12, marking her first to not hit the top ten. I don’t think she’d return to the top ten until I Know What You Want with Busta six years later.
|
|
jenglisbe
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 34,420
|
Post by jenglisbe on Oct 21, 2020 17:03:27 GMT -5
Fact! I remember articles deriding her airplay #s going down starting at Honey. But that actually doesn't mean her songs weren't successful at the formats they were sent to - they just weren't smashes at every single format simultaneously (like her AC/Pop hits were). The libel! Also - she was truly ahead of her time with the R&B shift - with the rising audiences after she literally started the trend, her songs probably would have had similar airplay peaks with just Rhythmic/Urban support as they did with Pop/AC/Hot AC support earlier in the 90s, if they were released once those formats really took off in the early 00s. Sure but this also ignores that Mariah's stats at Urban radio declined, too. I agree Pop/Top 40 isn't everything, but even when she owned pop radio she was killing it at Urban, too. Post "Honey" up until "We Belong Together" her only songs to go top 5 at Rhythmic were "Heartbreaker" and "IKWYW." Post "Honey" her only top 5s at Urban were the same two. Before that she had 11 #1s at Urban. Not that her songs were flopping at those formats, per se, but there was a definite decline from the pre-Butterfly days.
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 21, 2020 17:39:11 GMT -5
That validates it, thank God 🙏 This response haha! Anyway, one thing I really love about "My All" is its subtle use of acoustic guitar and mild percussion. The song has the kind of latin american sound that is not forced but feels organic and helps the listener focus on the longing and desperation that her voice conveys so understatedly. By the time she belts that last chorus you're in heaven reveling on the fact that you can relate to what she is singing. It's quite a gorgeous record. I’ve always loved My All. From the captivating opening lines, to the production, to her buttery tone. It’s a beautiful song. I love the song and I love the video.
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 21, 2020 17:40:29 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 18:00:19 GMT -5
My All embodied the natural sexiness of Mariah. That whole video, the sound, the instruments and most of all her voice. She didnt have to do anything in her Butterfly videos that was extra she just oozed sex appeal but not in a crass way but just feminine energy.
I always thought her posing and doing her Mariahism was never intended for sexuality but just her playing but maybe cause of Jeter she really was in her sexual zone on Butterfly.
Anyways My All is one of the best pop ballads of its times, hands down.
|
|
Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
Diamond Member
All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,285
|
Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Oct 21, 2020 18:03:22 GMT -5
Still inside the New York Times Best Sellers List for a 3rd straight week!
Queen of Memoirs!
|
|
|
Post by die Lotterie on Oct 21, 2020 22:56:49 GMT -5
I don't know why, but every time I listen to "Cool On You" I imagine her dancers buzzing around her doing the same dance they do for any midtempo/uptempo (SIO, TMB, ITC, etc) or I think of Lovers & Haters club Mimi from The Adventures of Mimi tour.
|
|