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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 15:49:57 GMT -5
I'm Sam Hunt for MCA Nashville, and we'll leave the night on for you. Seriously, why the hate of this song? Because it's so pop sounding? This sounded all right to me on first listen. I don't think many here said it was a bad song. I actually quite like it...but it's the least country thing I've heard yet on country radio, and so it bothers me that it's getting preferential treatment. The huge airplay gains it's been getting are ridiculous and completely unnatural. It's been boosted up the chart via corporate programming (a one-size-fits-all approach, basically). Local PD's and listeners have been completely taken out of the equation...if it's a Clear Channel station they are playing this song, and it would seem that all CC stations have basically been 'commanded' to play this song a certain amount of times (and I don't know how that works...would they face certain consequences if they didn't? Otherwise I suppose all CC stations could have signed on and agreed to play this X amount of times from the very beginning, but again, that takes the listener (and sales and research) completely out of the equation, and puts all the power in the hands of the bean-counters at Clear Channel headquarters).
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 16:05:23 GMT -5
My gut feeling is Sam Hunt is going to be this new young generations "Garth Brooks". He is going to bring a totally different sound and look and he will be the Artist that starts the fading of the Luke Bryan, Fla Ga Line sound. Like I said it's just my opinion. I know it's just your opinion but I think you're crowning him "Garth" way too early. Most people have never even heard this guy's name other than the radio insiders propping him up. This is like saying your newborn child will be the future President. Let's just take it one step at a time. It'll be telling after all this promotion how Sam's debut album sells it's first week, whenever it comes out.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 16:11:22 GMT -5
My gut feeling is Sam Hunt is going to be this new young generations "Garth Brooks". He is going to bring a totally different sound and look and he will be the Artist that starts the fading of the Luke Bryan, Fla Ga Line sound. Like I said it's just my opinion. I know it's just your opinion but I think you're crowning him "Garth" way too early. Most people have never even heard this guy's name other than the radio insiders propping him up. This is like saying your newborn child will be the future President. Let's just take it one step at a time. It'll be telling after all this promotion how Sam's debut album sells it's first week, whenever it comes out. I'm only using Garth's name as a way of saying "the next big name and sound that will change the current direction". I haven't seen this kind of hype around a person in Nashiville by industry people since Kacey Musgraves. I think Radio wants this guy to be the next big thing and the difference between him and some of the rest is the "It" factor IMO.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 16:16:26 GMT -5
I know it's just your opinion but I think you're crowning him "Garth" way too early. Most people have never even heard this guy's name other than the radio insiders propping him up. This is like saying your newborn child will be the future President. Let's just take it one step at a time. It'll be telling after all this promotion how Sam's debut album sells it's first week, whenever it comes out. I'm only using Garth's name as a way of saying "the next big name and sound that will change the current direction". I haven't seen this kind of hype around a person in Nashiville by industry people since Kacey Musgraves. I think Radio wants this guy to be the next big thing and the difference between him and some of the rest is the "It" factor IMO. Kacey didn't necessarily become the next Reba either despite the awards and her rollout to radio (which hasn't been all that successful). Industry hype vs what the masses want to hear is sometimes very different. Like I said his debut week of album sales will say a lot.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 16:21:08 GMT -5
I'm only using Garth's name as a way of saying "the next big name and sound that will change the current direction". I haven't seen this kind of hype around a person in Nashiville by industry people since Kacey Musgraves. I think Radio wants this guy to be the next big thing and the difference between him and some of the rest is the "It" factor IMO. Kacey didn't necessarily become the next Reba either despite the awards and her rollout to radio (which hasn't been all that successful). Industry hype vs what the masses want to hear is sometimes very different. Like I said his debut week of album sales will say a lot. Much like Kacey, he may end up rubbing some the wrong way but I think his music may end up being more appealing to radio and he's a much more dynamic performer than her.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 24, 2014 16:37:35 GMT -5
Kacey didn't necessarily become the next Reba either despite the awards and her rollout to radio (which hasn't been all that successful). Industry hype vs what the masses want to hear is sometimes very different. Like I said his debut week of album sales will say a lot. Much like Kacey, he may end up rubbing some the wrong way but I think his music may end up being more appealing to radio and he's a much more dynamic performer than her. Sam Hunt could do a Crossroads show with Katy Perry!
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 16:44:54 GMT -5
Honestly the way I view Sam is that he is Corporate owned cause of his roll out. I don't blame him, I blame this whole CC/UMG backroom deal or whatever it was. If I was an artist I sure would not want my rollout to be forced. I would want it to be natural. The biggest stars are the ones whose fans have chosen to be that big of star by purchasing their music and old fashioned requesting. Not ones that radio forced down their throats before they ever heard of him/her.
As for this song, I've listened to it several times now just trying to see what this fuss is that is so different and game changing. To me it sounds like the same Pop drivel that has become old hat by now. He's no different than many other wanna be Pop artists and one thing that Country music wants now more than ever is Pop artists who can't make it in LA or NY, they have a home in Nashville.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 16:52:56 GMT -5
Honestly the way I view Sam is that he is Corporate owned cause of his roll out. I don't blame him, I blame this whole CC/UMG backroom deal or whatever it was. If I was an artist I sure would not want my rollout to be forced. I would want it to be natural. The biggest stars are the ones whose fans have chosen to be that big of star by purchasing their music and old fashioned requesting. Not ones that radio forced down their throats before they ever heard of him/her. As for this song, I've listened to it several times now just trying to see what this fuss is that is so different and game changing. To me it sounds like the same Pop drivel that has become old hat by now. He's no different than many other wanna be Pop artists and one thing that Country music wants now more than ever is Pop artists who can't make it in LA or NY, they have a home in Nashville. I don't get all the hate for this guy. Honestly, it reminds me of some of the threads of the previous AI and voice contestants. I feel like those Artists had an even more unfair advantage over Sam Hunt.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 17:16:49 GMT -5
Honestly the way I view Sam is that he is Corporate owned cause of his roll out. I don't blame him, I blame this whole CC/UMG backroom deal or whatever it was. If I was an artist I sure would not want my rollout to be forced. I would want it to be natural. The biggest stars are the ones whose fans have chosen to be that big of star by purchasing their music and old fashioned requesting. Not ones that radio forced down their throats before they ever heard of him/her. As for this song, I've listened to it several times now just trying to see what this fuss is that is so different and game changing. To me it sounds like the same Pop drivel that has become old hat by now. He's no different than many other wanna be Pop artists and one thing that Country music wants now more than ever is Pop artists who can't make it in LA or NY, they have a home in Nashville. I don't get all the hate for this guy. Honestly, it reminds me of some of the threads of the previous AI and voice contestants. I feel like those Artists had an even more unfair advantage over Sam Hunt. It's not the hate for him personally. A lot of us just don't get the hype nor do we like the CC deal that is giving him an unfair advantage. And when it comes to singing show contestants appeared that they had an unfair advantage, but other than Carrie Underwood there hasn't been one that has shot to mega stardom right of the gate in Country music. 10's of millions votes don't equate to 10's of millions in sales. So the supposed advantage to singing shows ended up being more talk than action. But in Sam's case this is pure manipulative action out of the gate by backroom deal between CC radio stations and his label. Radio and the industry has made all the singing show stars "work for it" other than Carrie. Carrie was just a unique case cause the industry had done years without breaking a new female megastar. Much like where the industry is now in that same situation in regards to females. I am totally against this deal, but if it has to be done, at least give a female a chance at it. We need a new Miranda, Taylor, or Carrie more than anything in this genre. Enough of the new men! But that's a whole other conversation.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jun 24, 2014 17:19:07 GMT -5
Carrie was just a unique case cause the industry had done years without breaking a new female megastar.
What about Gretchen Wilson, who exploded just before Carrie Underwood and imploded right after Underwood?
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 17:23:46 GMT -5
I would argue that Sam Hunt did more work for his radio play right now than any of the AI contestants did for their debut singles and airplay on those singles.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 17:27:37 GMT -5
I would argue that Sam Hunt did more work for his radio play right now than any of the AI contestants did for their debut singles and airplay on those singles. Then he should be given a natural debut by radio to show for his work, not a free pass. John King's song came out in April. I know in King's thread earlier I called him Sam Hunt 2.0 but I wasn't aware that the song had already been out for 2 months. John King did a huge radio tour, 2 months later his song is in the top 50 with a triple digit bullet. That's what you call a natural debut from a radio tour. Not a free pass cause of a corporate deal.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 17:34:50 GMT -5
I don't disagree that other Artists deserve and/or should have the same opportunity. I am tired of the A-list Artist getting 70 spins per day per song. There is no way for new blood to be heard. I like what this program is doing to expose listeners during all hours of the day to new unheard Acts. I had no problem with Craig Campbell or Dustin Lynch's song either. I think radio needs to be showcasing more "new" artists and music and if this is the way to do it, I'm for it and as I said earlier, I hope a female and someone like Chris Stapleton is next.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 17:43:01 GMT -5
I don't disagree that other Artists deserve and/or should have the same opportunity. I am tired of the A-list Artist getting 70 spins per day per song. There is no way for new blood to be heard. I like what this program is doing to expose listeners during all hours of the day to new unheard Acts. I had no problem with Craig Campbell or Dustin Lynch's song either. I think radio needs to be showcasing more "new" artists and music and if this is the way to do it, I'm for it and as I said earlier, I hope a female and someone like Chris Stapleton is next. What they are doing is cherry-picking the artists they choose for this. Politicking and bargaining between CC and labels probably are a big part of the 3 that have been chosen so far. If they are going to do it, make it fair. Do 1 every other week (Roughly 2 a month) from a different label each time with different sexes, solo acts, and groups. Rotate it. Then it won't be viewed as something fishy and more new blood will be given a chance. Right now I feel like I have to wash my hands after hearing his song cause it came from some dirty deal. And like I said I think the song itself is pretty generic.
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justme60
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Post by justme60 on Jun 24, 2014 17:45:39 GMT -5
I'll be honest and say....I never heard of the guy until Keith Urban released COP CAR and then when he acted disrespectful accusing Keith of stealing his song...well, that was a huge turn off for me. I don't hear anything outstanding about him or his music. He just sounded like a spoiled child accusing a playmate for getting his toy. And most artist are so respectful of their peers. If I had been him...even if I had thought it, I wouldn't have broadcasted it.
Anyhow, he may make it big, so more power to him. But I know I won't be supporting him, but I'm just one person so I'm sure that won't hurt him.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 17:46:44 GMT -5
^It's a fairly new thing. The songs chosen so far have all sounded different and the Artists have all been very different stylistically. Life is not fair. Someone is always going to get their feelings hurt.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Jun 24, 2014 18:07:53 GMT -5
Clear Channel deal or not, or even Country or Pop, I'm not a fan of the song. It does nothing to me.
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Post by nncountrykid on Jun 24, 2014 18:30:46 GMT -5
I don't disagree that other Artists deserve and/or should have the same opportunity. I am tired of the A-list Artist getting 70 spins per day per song. There is no way for new blood to be heard. I like what this program is doing to expose listeners during all hours of the day to new unheard Acts. I had no problem with Craig Campbell or Dustin Lynch's song either. I think radio needs to be showcasing more "new" artists and music and if this is the way to do it, I'm for it and as I said earlier, I hope a female and someone like Chris Stapleton is next. What they are doing is cherry-picking the artists they choose for this. Politicking and bargaining between CC and labels probably are a big part of the 3 that have been chosen so far. If they are going to do it, make it fair. Do 1 every other week (Roughly 2 a month) from a different label each time with different sexes, solo acts, and groups. Rotate it. Then it won't be viewed as something fishy and more new blood will be given a chance. Right now I feel like I have to wash my hands after hearing his song cause it came from some dirty deal. And like I said I think the song itself is pretty generic. so is the McCreery avatar supposed to be ironic or are you just throwing stones from a glass house here?
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Jun 24, 2014 18:44:17 GMT -5
What they are doing is cherry-picking the artists they choose for this. Politicking and bargaining between CC and labels probably are a big part of the 3 that have been chosen so far. If they are going to do it, make it fair. Do 1 every other week (Roughly 2 a month) from a different label each time with different sexes, solo acts, and groups. Rotate it. Then it won't be viewed as something fishy and more new blood will be given a chance. Right now I feel like I have to wash my hands after hearing his song cause it came from some dirty deal. And like I said I think the song itself is pretty generic. so is the McCreery avatar supposed to be ironic or are you just throwing stones from a glass house here? I don't see where he has anything to do with this. His situation was nothing like Hunt's. He never got a CC radio deal, free ride from his win, nor a fast track to radio success. After all he just got a top 10 this year, 3 years after his initial Idol fame. He's just my favorite artist so that's why he's my avatar. You're pretty much comparing apples to potatoes. He's not even a new artist anymore. 2011 was 3 years ago. New in my opinion is anyone who has debuted in the last year or two.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 24, 2014 19:05:29 GMT -5
^It's a fairly new thing. The songs chosen so far have all sounded different and the Artists have all been very different stylistically. Life is not fair. Someone is always going to get their feelings hurt. Saying the old theme "Life is not fair" is just an easy way to agree with this to me. That would be totally my position with something like your kid not making the travel hockey team, or having to work a double shift at your place of work, or perhaps getting a flat tire in the pouring rain. Things that are out of people's control. Something that doesn't have money and people's career's in the balance. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with my position about why I'm against this "On The Verge" tactic, but this is a worked out agreement to play this song without listener feedback. To me this thread has been discussing two different arguments. One about the "On The Verge" program, and the other about Sam's music as an artist. Even though I feel Sam's song isn't really country, I could care less about who the artist is and what kind of song is getting this treatment (I love the "Keep Them Kisses Comin'"), it's the treatment I have the problem with. Country radio I would like to think is broadcast for fans. But what this program does is essentially the head of CC contacting all of it's stations to add this song, regardless of whether they were going to or not. Many have said that hopefully they will select a female next or someone like Chris Stapleton. I too would at the very least want to see that happen to if this is going to continue, which it will, but I'm skeptical that we will see that at least in the near future. I'm fighting a losing fight and I completely understand that. When your talking about corporate deals involving major recording labels, there is little that will change that I would like to change. I just feel this will make it even harder for most artist to break through which it already was to begin with, while a select few will get guaranteed hits regardless of what Call-out scores, market research, or even something simple like what a specific PD would like to add to his or her playlist. To me this is heading for a syndicated playlist.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 19:58:35 GMT -5
^It's a fairly new thing. The songs chosen so far have all sounded different and the Artists have all been very different stylistically. Life is not fair. Someone is always going to get their feelings hurt. Saying the old theme "Life is not fair" is just an easy way to agree with this to me. That would be totally my position with something like your kid not making the travel hockey team, or having to work a double shift at your place of work, or perhaps getting a flat tire in the pouring rain. Things that are out of people's control. Something that doesn't have money and people's career's in the balance. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with my position about why I'm against this "On The Verge" tactic, but this is a worked out agreement to play this song without listener feedback. To me this thread has been discussing two different arguments. One about the "On The Verge" program, and the other about Sam's music as an artist. Even though I feel Sam's song isn't really country, I could care less about who the artist is and what kind of song is getting this treatment (I love the "Keep Them Kisses Comin'"), it's the treatment I have the problem with. Country radio I would like to think is broadcast for fans. But what this program does is essentially the head of CC contacting all of it's stations to add this song, regardless of whether they were going to or not. Many have said that hopefully they will select a female next or someone like Chris Stapleton. I too would at the very least want to see that happen to if this is going to continue, which it will, but I'm skeptical that we will see that at least in the near future. I'm fighting a losing fight and I completely understand that. When your talking about corporate deals involving major recording labels, there is little that will change that I would like to change. I just feel this will make it even harder for most artist to break through which it already was to begin with, while a select few will get guaranteed hits regardless of what Call-out scores, market research, or even something simple like what a specific PD would like to add to his or her playlist. To me this is heading for a syndicated playlist. Saying Life is not fair is exactly the way things are in real life. Do you really believe listener feedback/radio callout makes that much of a difference? Radio makes or breaks who they want to and it really has little to do with the listener feedback. I like this "treatment" because I simply detest the way Cumulus treats new Artists songs. Some songs don't even get added until they make the top 10 if they are a new Artist despite the listener feedback you mentioned. As far as this song, if people don't like it, it won't sell regardless of this deal. If it and he doesn't sell well he will be forgotten pretty quickly.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 24, 2014 20:29:41 GMT -5
Saying the old theme "Life is not fair" is just an easy way to agree with this to me. That would be totally my position with something like your kid not making the travel hockey team, or having to work a double shift at your place of work, or perhaps getting a flat tire in the pouring rain. Things that are out of people's control. Something that doesn't have money and people's career's in the balance. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with my position about why I'm against this "On The Verge" tactic, but this is a worked out agreement to play this song without listener feedback. To me this thread has been discussing two different arguments. One about the "On The Verge" program, and the other about Sam's music as an artist. Even though I feel Sam's song isn't really country, I could care less about who the artist is and what kind of song is getting this treatment (I love the "Keep Them Kisses Comin'"), it's the treatment I have the problem with. Country radio I would like to think is broadcast for fans. But what this program does is essentially the head of CC contacting all of it's stations to add this song, regardless of whether they were going to or not. Many have said that hopefully they will select a female next or someone like Chris Stapleton. I too would at the very least want to see that happen to if this is going to continue, which it will, but I'm skeptical that we will see that at least in the near future. I'm fighting a losing fight and I completely understand that. When your talking about corporate deals involving major recording labels, there is little that will change that I would like to change. I just feel this will make it even harder for most artist to break through which it already was to begin with, while a select few will get guaranteed hits regardless of what Call-out scores, market research, or even something simple like what a specific PD would like to add to his or her playlist. To me this is heading for a syndicated playlist. Saying Life is not fair is exactly the way things are in real life. Do you really believe listener feedback/radio callout makes that much of a difference? Radio makes or breaks who they want to and it really has little to do with the listener feedback. I like this "treatment" because I simply detest the way Cumulus treats new Artists songs. Some songs don't even get added until they make the top 10 if they are a new Artist despite the listener feedback you mentioned. As far as this song, if people don't like it, it won't sell regardless of this deal. If it and he doesn't sell well he will be forgotten pretty quickly. Obviously life in "general" is not fair which I explained. My Dad has had two bouts with bladder cancer recently and believe me, I know how real life works and country radio is a cold hard business that does indeed make and break careers which is actually something I've discussed with a friend of mine who works at WYRK. I just feel using that term is not the most appropriate in regards to this situation. But that's my opinion. As for call-out scores and feedback scores, while I don't feel they are hugely important to determining songs chart chances, they do give radio a gage on their listeners. That's the reason "Donkey" is failing right now. When a song like Sams gets put on that many stations at once, it gives him a head start and a solid starting ground of audience to work off of. I think it's pretty silly to say that "if people don't like it, it won't do well". Most songs are liked by a good majority of listeners. But getting to go halfway up the chart will certainly make your song become a big seller and a hit just because many listeners are instantly exposed to it. I too hate the Cumulus stations, but that doesn't mean I like this practice instead. There's no way that Sam will be "forgotten quickly" when his debut single debuts at #36 with a sponsord corporate radio deal.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 21:03:21 GMT -5
Saying Life is not fair is exactly the way things are in real life. Do you really believe listener feedback/radio callout makes that much of a difference? Radio makes or breaks who they want to and it really has little to do with the listener feedback. I like this "treatment" because I simply detest the way Cumulus treats new Artists songs. Some songs don't even get added until they make the top 10 if they are a new Artist despite the listener feedback you mentioned. As far as this song, if people don't like it, it won't sell regardless of this deal. If it and he doesn't sell well he will be forgotten pretty quickly. Obviously life in "general" is not fair which I explained. My Dad has had two bouts with bladder cancer recently and believe me, I know how real life works and country radio is a cold hard business that does indeed make and break careers which is actually something I've discussed with a friend of mine who works at WYRK. I just feel using that term is not the most appropriate in regards to this situation. But that's my opinion. As for call-out scores and feedback scores, while I don't feel they are hugely important to determining songs chart chances, they do give radio a gage on their listeners. That's the reason "Donkey" is failing right now. When a song like Sams gets put on that many stations at once, it gives him a head start and a solid starting ground of audience to work off of. I think it's pretty silly to say that "if people don't like it, it won't do well". Most songs are liked by a good majority of listeners. But getting to go halfway up the chart will certainly make your song become a big seller and a hit just because many listeners are instantly exposed to it. I too hate the Cumulus stations, but that doesn't mean I like this practice instead. There's no way that Sam will be "forgotten quickly" when his debut single debuts at #36 with a sponsord corporate radio deal. I'm very sorry about your Dad. There is no point continuing this discussion. I'm a fan of the program and you and others are not. I simply think it's great for exposing new Artists and new music. Is it fair to everyone? No, but radio play across the board isn't fair. Every song doesn't deserve #1 but 95% of them are getting there. I can't help but believe if this program was featuring Brandy Clark Chris Stapleton or Charlie Worsham the backlash would be much less.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Jun 24, 2014 22:03:28 GMT -5
I think some people here just don't want to accept the fact that traditional country simply isn't a popular sound anymore. Is there a market for it? Sure. There's also a market for Jazz and Blues and other stuff that doesn't get wide attention because it doesn't appeal to a wide array of people anymore. Traditional Country is falling into that zone. I know people will dislike him for this and this alone because of deciding that 'country' is something that needs to be one specific sound more than what being 'country' means. ... Also, if country remained "honky tonk" or super traditional-leaning it would be more 'marginalized' and basically a 'dead' format for the world outside of the few dedicated artists. And while some people may be fine with such things, I'm not as a fan of the genre (and traditional stuff as much as the new stuff). Once again, I'm puzzled by the misguided reduction of the "country" format debate to traditional versus contemporary -- all it does is straw man one side and make discussion unnecessarily heated and repetitive. I've said before that I believe artists like Jerrod Niemann have adopted the "evolution" line of argument as a deceptive & convenient way to marginalize his critics. But it defies sense and reality to accuse people who to varying degrees support the atmospheric rock sound of Dierks Bentley's current album, the orchestral pop/rock bent of Carrie Underwood's Blown Away singles, the jangly swamp pop of Little Big Town, the metal & blues stylings of much of Eric Church's current work, etc., of thinking that country music should remain "honky tonk"-sounding or "super traditional-leaning" or have "one specific sound." It should be obvious that the objections here are not, for the most part, to the blending of influences -- it's that a true blending of influences should leave something identifiably country in song and artist if they are going to claim a country label (which is why the boundary pushers I mentioned above retain support among several of the Sam Hunt objectors here). Nothing about "Leave the Night On" distinguishes it from The Script/Jason Mraz-type songs that were hot on Hot AC five years ago. There is nothing specifically country about the lyrics of this song, never mind the sound. Sam is actually marketing himself (via his management team and now label) via a R&B/hiphop way (acoustic mixtapes) and he does use a drum machine instead of bass in most of his songs but I'm totally OK with that. His lyrics are predominantly "country" and his work with Shane McAnally as co-writer/producer (along with Zach Crowell) will keep him mostly with interesting melodies and not as many 'bro' like lyrics). Sam Hunt CAN and TRIED to sing the more traditional-leaning stuff and got nowhere in Nashville by doing it (rejection from Big Machine too). So in the process of figuring out the type of music that people want to hear from him, Sam Hunt has found himself making acoustic pop music with R&B and hip-hop influences, despite his country roots. Terrific! I'm glad he found himself as an artist, but the fact that he is marketing to country is not enough for me to accept "Leave the Night On" as a country song. If Sam Hunt has other material that genuinely blends country with pop, R&B, and hip-hop, I am open to hearing it. I will concede that I heard a country-pop song in "Come Over," which he co-wrote. The Taylor Swift comparison may be apt in the sense that I'm not hearing a country voice from Sam Hunt either but can imagine there being some country influence in his songwriting as there was in hers when she was starting out. Of course, the way Taylor's music has developed is not exactly an argument for developing him on the country format... Another huge week of adds. Pales in comparison to the 100+ for American Kids, but solid nonetheless. The adds aren't an independent indicator, considering the high percentage of them that come from pre-arranged Clear Channel and CBS conglomerate support. But I actually agree with your earlier point that this song is well-constructed for today's country radio, in no small part because it has nothing to do with actual country music and everything to do with a big Hot AC-based trend from a few years back. so is the McCreery avatar supposed to be ironic or are you just throwing stones from a glass house here? I don't see where he has anything to do with this. His situation was nothing like Hunt's. He never got a CC radio deal, free ride from his win, nor a fast track to radio success.(bolding mine) Music Row: Scotty McCreery Makes History with Debut SingleScotty most certainly got fast-tracked out of the gate at radio. If your argument is going to be that "I Love You This Big" never made the top-10, then let me point out that Sam Hunt's debut single hasn't yet. But I also don't believe that's the right way to look at it. A song like "I Love You This Big" would have gone nowhere coming from an artist without an Idol win and fanbase behind him or her. The fact that it even made the top-20 is a testament to Scotty's Idol momentum -- the song itself was an embarrassment as far as I am concerned. I would further argue that "The Trouble with Girls" only got as high as it did due to Scotty's Idol momentum. It, too, was a mediocre at best song and a terrible single choice. So I disagree with the premise that Scotty had no "free ride from his win, nor fast track to radio success" -- he did, and that is the only reason that he started out his career with two top-20 singles from those two particular songs. I firmly believe that with a halfway decent single, he wouldn't have had to wait until his sophomore album for a top-10 hit. As for the On the Verge treatment of "Leave the Night On," like most here I dislike the disruptive impact on the charts and the fact that it is being used in service of someone who hardly would have needed the help (as opposed to an artist on an independent label with a less conventional song). On the bright side, Sam Hunt's second single won't get the same treatment, and so there will come a time when he will have to prove himself, whatever that means in today's country radio and market terms. Having said all that, I also think that rsmatto and layne are on to something about what Sam Hunt potentially represents and why it is that a country label would want to invest in him. The fact that he built a certain amount of fan support via acoustic mixtapes points to a potential new development model for new artists, the kind of sea-changing mindset that made the likes of Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, and Taylor Swift so big. Moreover, when you look at Hot AC stations, the Nickelback/Daughtry brand of corporate rock fell out of favor about five years ago and was followed by a more rhythmic pop sound. It's no coincidence, then, that Nickelback producer Joey Moi is having his reign of terror run at country radio right now -- both Craig Wiseman and Shane Minor recently talked to Rolling Stone Country about how country radio has become the refuge of male rock and hair metal fans. And on the same slide, Jimmy Robbins discussed the emerging trend...acoustic guitars over drum loops, which took over at Hot AC when the Nickelback corporate rock sound receded and seems likely to take over at country radio once the same Joey Moi corporate rock sound peaks here (and it probably has, given the oversaturation issue kw9461 mentioned). That "acoustic guitars over drum loops" sound is Sam Hunt to a tee. [On a side note, that probably means that country radio is due for a string band revival within a few years, since Mumford & Sons/The Lumineers had their Hot AC & CHR/Pop crossover moments after The Script/Jason Mraz's acoustic pop with beats stylings peaked.] So with all those points in mind, I've come to get why there is corporate belief in Sam Hunt and why he is placed in the country market. But that really only goes to show that, much like Gary Allan told Larry King last year, the corporate conglomerates that control radio define format by demographics, not any real musical indicators. Country radio today has little connection to country music, yet sometimes our debates about whether it should intersect with our discussions of certain artists and singles. Sam Hunt may, whether for one single or for many, make sense for corporate country radio. But as far as I'm concerned, that alone doesn't make his music country, nor does it make him a country artist.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Jun 24, 2014 22:38:41 GMT -5
Obviously life in "general" is not fair which I explained. My Dad has had two bouts with bladder cancer recently and believe me, I know how real life works and country radio is a cold hard business that does indeed make and break careers which is actually something I've discussed with a friend of mine who works at WYRK. I just feel using that term is not the most appropriate in regards to this situation. But that's my opinion. As for call-out scores and feedback scores, while I don't feel they are hugely important to determining songs chart chances, they do give radio a gage on their listeners. That's the reason "Donkey" is failing right now. When a song like Sams gets put on that many stations at once, it gives him a head start and a solid starting ground of audience to work off of. I think it's pretty silly to say that "if people don't like it, it won't do well". Most songs are liked by a good majority of listeners. But getting to go halfway up the chart will certainly make your song become a big seller and a hit just because many listeners are instantly exposed to it. I too hate the Cumulus stations, but that doesn't mean I like this practice instead. There's no way that Sam will be "forgotten quickly" when his debut single debuts at #36 with a sponsord corporate radio deal. I'm very sorry about your Dad. There is no point continuing this discussion. I'm a fan of the program and you and others are not. I simply think it's great for exposing new Artists and new music. Is it fair to everyone? No, but radio play across the board isn't fair. Every song doesn't deserve #1 but 95% of them are getting there. I can't help but believe if this program was featuring Brandy Clark Chris Stapleton or Charlie Worsham the backlash would be much less. We clearly disagree about this and that's fine. I love back and forth discussions, and I find you're posting to be very good and I love reading you're thoughts in numerous threads. I can't say for sure if people would have as much as a problem with "On The Verge" if those artists you mentioned were selected, but I can honestly say I would not care either way, whether it's Sam Hunt, Charlie Worsham, Dustin Lynch, Craig Campbell, or Chris Stapleton. To me this program is wrong.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Jun 24, 2014 22:38:47 GMT -5
I think the general consensus is it's a decent song, but not country at all. Yep. It's not pop-sounding, it's just pop. I understand this song not resonating with a country purist, but I'm just not seeing this "just pop" thing. This is far closer in sound to something like Jake Owen's "Barefoot Blue Jean Night" and theme to the aforementioned "Running Out of Moonlight" than it is to anything you'd currently hear on pop radio. I could definitely see this resonating on Hot AC because there are elements of acts like Rob Thomas and Jason Mraz, but it would feel far more "different" on CHR/Pop than it does on country. === And there definitely is a double standard regarding the On the Verge program. Most people on the Pop forum seem to like "Rather Be," so no one's complaining about that one getting the on the verge hookup. But if you ask me, that's far more unfair - because that song was an international hit and had an ample opportunity to resonate with American listeners. It didn't, yet it somehow gets the forced Clear Channel adds anyway? With Sam Hunt, at least there was a fairly clean slate. America *had* reacted--and was lukewarm--on Rather Be prior to the On the Verge deal kicking in. And since the song does seem to be taking off, I think iHeartRadio made the right call with that one as well. But if you want to talk about injustice, that one's a far bigger load of nonsense.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Jun 24, 2014 22:50:17 GMT -5
Yep. It's not pop-sounding, it's just pop. I understand this song not resonating with a country purist, but I'm just not seeing this "just pop" thing. This is far closer in sound to something like Jake Owen's "Barefoot Blue Jean Night" and theme to the aforementioned "Running Out of Moonlight" than it is to anything you'd currently hear on pop radio. I could definitely see this resonating on Hot AC, but it would feel far more "different" on CHR/Pop than it does on country. I will concede your Hot AC point, but I don't find anything in this song, from the sound to the lyrics to the instrumentation, to be remotely country. I find it to be very much in line with Taylor's recent releases to pop radio - and those certainly didn't sound that out of place there, or on Hot AC. I am NOT a country purist. My favorite artist is Dierks Bentley, who is modern contemporary country with a side of bluegrass. Going to the point 43dudleyvillas just made (that I want to frame so I can have it forever but that's besides the point), it's ridiculous to throw the purist/traditionalist argument at people who cite Dierks Bentley, Eric Church, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, and Carrie Underwood among their favorite artists, because we *clearly* support evolution of the genre and "moving the genre forward," as those artists have done a pretty darn good job of doing just that without sacrificing who they are (mostly). I want to like Sam Hunt if only for his alliance with Shane McAnally, who is one of my favorite songwriters in Nashville. But this sound, while yes, is made for current country music, is not country music. There is nothing that ties it historically to country music. Synthesizing a banjo does not make a song country. Drum loops don't make a song country. If you want to call it Hot AC rather than Pop, that's fine, I'll concede that point. But it's not country and labeling it as such just takes the genre further away from its roots. And country radio's narrowness takes it even further.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Jun 24, 2014 22:55:51 GMT -5
I understand this song not resonating with a country purist, but I'm just not seeing this "just pop" thing. This is far closer in sound to something like Jake Owen's "Barefoot Blue Jean Night" and theme to the aforementioned "Running Out of Moonlight" than it is to anything you'd currently hear on pop radio. I could definitely see this resonating on Hot AC, but it would feel far more "different" on CHR/Pop than it does on country. I will concede your Hot AC point, but I don't find anything in this song, from the sound to the lyrics to the instrumentation, to be remotely country. I find it to be very much in line with Taylor's recent releases to pop radio - and those certainly didn't sound that out of place there, or on Hot AC. I am NOT a country purist. My favorite artist is Dierks Bentley, who is modern contemporary country with a side of bluegrass. Going to the point 43dudleyvillas just made (that I want to frame so I can have it forever but that's besides the point), it's ridiculous to throw the purist/traditionalist argument at people who cite Dierks Bentley, Eric Church, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, and Carrie Underwood among their favorite artists, because we *clearly* support evolution of the genre and "moving the genre forward," as those artists have done a pretty darn good job of doing just that without sacrificing who they are (mostly). I want to like Sam Hunt if only for his alliance with Shane McAnally, who is one of my favorite songwriters in Nashville. But this sound, while yes, is made for current country music, is not country music. There is nothing that ties it historically to country music. Synthesizing a banjo does not make a song country. Drum loops don't make a song country. If you want to call it Hot AC rather than Pop, that's fine, I'll concede that point. But it's not country and labeling it as such just takes the genre further away from its roots. And country radio's narrowness takes it even further. I wasn't saying "you're just being a country purist" at all - and I think the acts you mentioned largely do a great job of being current and faithful to country tradition. My point was that you have to turn a blind eye to much of what DOES currently exist on country radio to claim that this is too poppy for contemporary, mainstream country radio. Like, if we accept that Jake Owen is a country hitmaker (and for the purpose of this argument, we have to), we can't say Sam Hunt doesn't belong. If we accept that "Runnin' Out of Moonlight" was a hit on country, we can't say "Leave the Night On" is a disgrace to the format.
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layne
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Post by layne on Jun 24, 2014 22:58:54 GMT -5
I understand this song not resonating with a country purist, but I'm just not seeing this "just pop" thing. This is far closer in sound to something like Jake Owen's "Barefoot Blue Jean Night" and theme to the aforementioned "Running Out of Moonlight" than it is to anything you'd currently hear on pop radio. I could definitely see this resonating on Hot AC, but it would feel far more "different" on CHR/Pop than it does on country. I will concede your Hot AC point, but I don't find anything in this song, from the sound to the lyrics to the instrumentation, to be remotely country. I find it to be very much in line with Taylor's recent releases to pop radio - and those certainly didn't sound that out of place there, or on Hot AC. I am NOT a country purist. My favorite artist is Dierks Bentley, who is modern contemporary country with a side of bluegrass. Going to the point 43dudleyvillas just made (that I want to frame so I can have it forever but that's besides the point), it's ridiculous to throw the purist/traditionalist argument at people who cite Dierks Bentley, Eric Church, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, and Carrie Underwood among their favorite artists, because we *clearly* support evolution of the genre and "moving the genre forward," as those artists have done a pretty darn good job of doing just that without sacrificing who they are (mostly). I want to like Sam Hunt if only for his alliance with Shane McAnally, who is one of my favorite songwriters in Nashville. But this sound, while yes, is made for current country music, is not country music. There is nothing that ties it historically to country music. Synthesizing a banjo does not make a song country. Drum loops don't make a song country. If you want to call it Hot AC rather than Pop, that's fine, I'll concede that point. But it's not country and labeling it as such just takes the genre further away from its roots. And country radio's narrowness takes it even further. Just curious if you felt the same way about Keith Urban's Cop Car and the other song of Sam's "Raised On It?
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carriekins
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With my mouth wide open in a whiskey rain, I could stand here 24 hours a day...
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Post by carriekins on Jun 24, 2014 23:28:25 GMT -5
layne loathe Raised on It. Instant station changer on the Highway for me. However, I really liked Cop Car (as sung by Keith), and you didn't ask but I also really like We Are Tonight (as sung by Billy). I think Sam's a talented songwriter, but the songs he is putting out himself do very little for me as country songs. Something is lost in his translations.
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