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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 24, 2014 12:10:52 GMT -5
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jul 24, 2014 20:24:13 GMT -5
Big drops from #1 position-wise
Biggest Drops from #1
2006 Light Grenades - Incubus 1-37 (1 to 40 on comprehensive)
2011 Mission Bell - Amos Lee 1-26
2011 Showroom of Compassion - Cake 1-25
2011 Christmas - Michael Buble 1-24
2011 Blue Slide Park - Mac Miller 1-24
2013 Christ Tomlin - Burning Lights 1-22
2003 The Golden Age Of Grotesque - Marilyn Manson 1-21
2009 The Circle - Bon Jovi 1-19
2014 1000 Forms of Fear - Sia 1-19
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jul 24, 2014 21:11:16 GMT -5
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jul 25, 2014 6:51:29 GMT -5
LOL - the album may be declining but it is not dying. Not sure it ever will.
The song and dance we do every week about album sales declines and the sad state of the music industry has been part of this site for years, yet we are still here talking about it, so it ain't dead yet. 5 Seconds of Summer will hit big next week, which proves, if you bring it, they will come.
The new release schedule has been pretty close to dead for a while but that should change as we start to move to the latter part of the year. If the industry puts nothing of interest out there, no one will buy anything - pretty simple.
Album sales will still continue to decline for probably quite a while but it will not die completely. Right now, the "in" thing is for people to rent their music instead of buying it. That will peak at some point and decline too. Eventually people will discover that once you stop paying the subscription rates, the muic all goes away.
The common theme though is that people who want the music are still getting it likely in quantities as big as ever.
Yup. They're getting their fix from YouTube, from Internet/wi-fi radio, from their favorite streaming service, and from other places where the fat cats have less of a say. They're getting it from used retailers, which, if I'm not mistaken, the majors tried to kill off. And that leads me to something I saw, a year and a half ago, which I would like to see happen to the industry: The State of the Music IndustryAnd someone applied commentary to the comic strip: Keithpp's Blog - The State of the Music IndustryWho holds the copyright to every song an artist puts out, especially for a major label? The artist? The songwriter? The producer? Unless I missed something over the last decade and a half, the answer is no! As far as I know, the record label or company holds the copyright, all 100% of it.As I see it, the time must come sooner where copyright control is centered around the people who created the music; the artist, songwriter and producer. I might be a few years out of step here, but as I understand it, the only thing the label does is distribute and promote the material. But what if a label provides almost no promotion whatsoever, and either shelves the material or releases it with zero fanfare? More often than not, it happens with the majors. For that, I propose that the labels get no more than 25% of copyright control, with the rest going to the people who create the music. Am I missing something here? Yes you're missing the greed of the label |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 10:33:03 GMT -5
Big drops from #1 position-wise Biggest Drops from #1 2006 Light Grenades - Incubus 1-37 (1 to 40 on comprehensive) 2011 Mission Bell - Amos Lee 1-26 2011 Showroom of Compassion - Cake 1-25 2011 Christmas - Michael Buble 1-24 2011 Blue Slide Park - Mac Miller 1-24 2013 Christ Tomlin - Burning Lights 1-22 2003 The Golden Age Of Grotesque - Marilyn Manson 1-21 2009 The Circle - Bon Jovi 1-19 2014 1000 Forms of Fear - Sia 1-19 QED. The anvil drop, exemplified. Like I said, #1's today don't mean diddly-squat, except for bragging rights, which don't mean diddly-squat, either, if the album drops like this. And I'll bet there are many more #1's that fell right out of the top 10 in the last decade, if not during THIS decade. Didn't a #1 just recently lose more than 80% of its sales in the following week? Or did it debut somewhere else in the top 10? |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 10:36:21 GMT -5
Yup. They're getting their fix from YouTube, from Internet/wi-fi radio, from their favorite streaming service, and from other places where the fat cats have less of a say. They're getting it from used retailers, which, if I'm not mistaken, the majors tried to kill off. And that leads me to something I saw, a year and a half ago, which I would like to see happen to the industry: The State of the Music IndustryAnd someone applied commentary to the comic strip: Keithpp's Blog - The State of the Music IndustryWho holds the copyright to every song an artist puts out, especially for a major label? The artist? The songwriter? The producer? Unless I missed something over the last decade and a half, the answer is no! As far as I know, the record label or company holds the copyright, all 100% of it.As I see it, the time must come sooner where copyright control is centered around the people who created the music; the artist, songwriter and producer. I might be a few years out of step here, but as I understand it, the only thing the label does is distribute and promote the material. But what if a label provides almost no promotion whatsoever, and either shelves the material or releases it with zero fanfare? More often than not, it happens with the majors. For that, I propose that the labels get no more than 25% of copyright control, with the rest going to the people who create the music. Am I missing something here? Yes you're missing the greed of the label I don't think so. The comic strip I posted obviously makes that point. |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 25, 2014 11:37:02 GMT -5
Big drops from #1 position-wise Biggest Drops from #1 2006 Light Grenades - Incubus 1-37 (1 to 40 on comprehensive) 2011 Mission Bell - Amos Lee 1-26 2011 Showroom of Compassion - Cake 1-25 2011 Christmas - Michael Buble 1-24 2011 Blue Slide Park - Mac Miller 1-24 2013 Christ Tomlin - Burning Lights 1-22 2003 The Golden Age Of Grotesque - Marilyn Manson 1-21 2009 The Circle - Bon Jovi 1-19 2014 1000 Forms of Fear - Sia 1-19 QED. The anvil drop, exemplified. Like I said, #1's today don't mean diddly-squat, except for bragging rights, which don't mean diddly-squat, either, if the album drops like this. And I'll bet there are many more #1's that fell right out of the top 10 in the last decade, if not during THIS decade. Didn't a #1 just recently lose more than 80% ?of its sales in the following week? Or did it debut somewhere else in the top 10? Why are you so dramatic?? We have a #1 album that sells 53k and now... ALBUMS ARE OVER!!! #1s MEAN NOTHING!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 25, 2014 12:17:58 GMT -5
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 12:59:14 GMT -5
QED. The anvil drop, exemplified. Like I said, #1's today don't mean diddly-squat, except for bragging rights, which don't mean diddly-squat, either, if the album drops like this. And I'll bet there are many more #1's that fell right out of the top 10 in the last decade, if not during THIS decade. Didn't a #1 just recently lose more than 80% ?of its sales in the following week? Or did it debut somewhere else in the top 10? Why are you so dramatic?? We have a #1 album that sells 53k and now... ALBUMS ARE OVER!!! #1s MEAN NOTHING!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are the days when longevity matters a lot more than simply going to #1. This is not the age when a #1 album virtually guarantees gold or platinum, or, as was the case 25 years ago, double-platinum. That horse left the barn long ago. |
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jul 25, 2014 13:04:26 GMT -5
Yes you're missing the greed of the label I don't think so. The comic strip I posted obviously makes that point. Ah I missed the comic strip. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jul 25, 2014 13:09:03 GMT -5
I think the point is regarding: "albums are over", "#1's don't mean diddly squat", "that horse left the barn long ago" or whatever doomsday quote we come up with
If we interpret album sales declines as "over" then this is not new news and has been happening for many years. In reality they have been in decline for years but not "dead"
People know album sales are declining but then Taylor Swift or someone else comes along and moves 1 million in a week. So not really doomsday if product that appeals to people is released.
I think the numbers we see now is because the release schedule has been incredibly weak this year. That has more to do with it than the sudden death of the album format.
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Post by Push The Button on Jul 25, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5
Why are you so dramatic?? We have a #1 album that sells 53k and now... ALBUMS ARE OVER!!! #1s MEAN NOTHING!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are the days when longevity matters a lot more than simply going to #1. This is not the age when a #1 album virtually guarantees gold or platinum, or, as was the case 25 years ago, double-platinum. That horse left the barn long ago. I'm sorry, what? Judy Garland's Live at Carnegie Hall was #1 for 13 weeks, and it's only certified gold. You're reaching. |
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jul 25, 2014 13:36:14 GMT -5
There's also wayyyyyyyy more music and more access to indie bands that you didn't have before. This I would assume cuts into mainstream / pop music / top 40 cd sales. Or at least some factor to it
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jul 25, 2014 13:37:54 GMT -5
People here disagree w me but I still think illegal downloading is a bigger deal than not
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 13:48:22 GMT -5
I think the point is regarding: "albums are over", "#1's don't mean diddly squat", "that horse left the barn long ago" or whatever doomsday quote we come up with If we interpret album sales declines as "over" then thsi is not new news and has been happening for many years. In reality they have been in decline for years but not "dead" People know album sales are declining but then Taylor Swift or someone else comes along and moves 1 million in a week. So not really doomsday if product that appeals to people is released. I think the numbers we see now is because the release schedule has been incredibly weak this year. That has more to do with it than the sudden death of the album format. Interesting point. There is no question that the people today come to expect a Taylor Swift or a Jay-Z or a Justin Timberlake to debut at #1 or #2 and go straight to gold or platinum. But unlike in years past (maybe even recently), I've seen more albums debut very high (top 3) with even less staying power than they once had. is it because the majors have relegated themselves to putting even more of their energy in promoting their biggest names (not the A-list, but the A++ list)? |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 13:57:25 GMT -5
Numbers. Never. Lie. These are the days when longevity matters a lot more than simply going to #1. This is not the age when a #1 album virtually guarantees gold or platinum, or, as was the case 25 years ago, double-platinum. That horse left the barn long ago. I'm sorry, what? Judy Garland's Live at Carnegie Hall was #1 for 13 weeks, and it's only certified gold. You're reaching. I wonder. When was the last time the RIAA reviewed the certifications of classics like this? Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon spent an enormous amount of time on the Billboard 200, and throughout the 1980s everyone knew the album sold more than 10 million copies; but it was only certified gold. It wasn't until 1990 (17 years after its debut) that they reviewed this album and gave the album its proper diamond status. I'll bet my horse money that Judy's long overdue for a review. Too bad SoundScan didn't exist in 1961. The industry and the chart procedures were quite different back then, even when compared to the 1970s and 1980s. From what I understand, popularity kept an album at or near the top of the charts in the 1950s and 1960s far more than hard sales. |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 25, 2014 14:00:50 GMT -5
There's also wayyyyyyyy more music and more access to indie bands that you didn't have before. This I would assume cuts into mainstream / pop music / top 40 cd sales. Or at least some factor to it Absolutely! And I'll bet way more indie record companies (those not affiliated with the big 4) than we had even 10 years ago. I wonder how many sales the indies have had, year-by-year, throughout the last decade and a half. I would not be surprised if indie sales have stayed fairly steady, or have seen a small drop over that stretch. As I look at the few pie charts available on the Web, the indie share seems to be getting bigger over time. How much longer before they claim 50%? Now for the issue at hand; namely, the original topic of this thread. Al has sold 104,000 this week. HITS is predicting around 30,000 next week. That's almost a 70% drop. He needs to slow the bleeding if he wants to hit 250,000, let alone gold. He's got plenty of gold (10) and platinum (6) on his wall. Which comedians have more? I could be wrong, but I doubt there are many. |
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Jul 25, 2014 14:43:07 GMT -5
We have a #1 album that sells 53k and now...
ALBUMS ARE OVER!!!
#1s MEAN NOTHING!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
The meds must have just kicked in for areyoureadytojump!
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jul 26, 2014 13:31:55 GMT -5
2011 Christmas - Michael Buble 1-24
2011 Blue Slide Park - Mac Miller 1-24
2013 Chris Tomlin - Burning Lights 1-22
2009 The Circle - Bon Jovi 1-19
All of these have sold decently if I'm not mistaken.. One major factor is what is the week AFTER these kind of albums reach #1. For example when Mac Miller reached #1 with 144k sold (impressive!), the week after even #10 sold 52k. And it's pretty obvious why Christmas is on this list.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 26, 2014 18:35:11 GMT -5
www.billboard.com/biz/articles/6189138/chart-moves-audra-mcdonald-tops-four-billboard-charts-buzzed-about-jungle-bandChart Moves: Audra McDonald Tops Four Billboard Charts, Buzzed-About Jungle Band ArrivesBy Keith Caulfield | July 25, 2014 This week on the Billboard 200 albums chart, "Weird Al" Yankovic earned his first No. 1, as Mandatory Fun bowed atop the list with 104,000 copies sold in the week ending July 20, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Yankovic led a debut-filled top four, joined by Jason Mraz, Rise Against and the Kidz Bop Kids. Outside of the top four, there was -- as usual -- lots of action as well. Let's take a look: -- Various Artists, Now 50 (No. 8): With another 23,000 sold in the week ending July 20, the album is the sixth to sell more than 500,000 copies in 2014 (520,000 to date). A year ago at this point, there were 18 half-million sellers. -- Sia, 1000 Forms of Fear (No. 19): With a fall to No. 19 in its second week, Sia makes the biggest drop from No. 1 since the Feb. 2, 2013-dated chart, when Chris Tomlin's Burning Lights tumbled 1-22. Sia's album sold 14,000 in its second week, down 73 percent. -- Soundtrack, Wish I Was Here (No. 43): The soundtrack, which features hand-picked songs by the film's director Zach Braff, opens with 8,000. Braff's ear for music also gave us the Garden State soundtrack, which spent 57 weeks on the chart and sold 1.5 million. -- Eminem, Curtain Call (No. 80): The Google Play store dropped the price of this album to $3.99 during the tracking week, which Amazon MP3 then matched. Downloads comprise 72 percent of its total sales for the week (4,000, up 140 percent). -- Jungle, Jungle (No. 84): Previously tipped as a Tomorrow's Hits artist back in June, the London band's album debuts with 4,000 sold. The group will launch a U.S. tour on Sept. 19 in Los Angeles, following an Aug. 2 appearance at the Lollapalooza festival. -- Sturgill Simpson, Metamodern Sounds in Country Music (No. 129): Following Simpson's performance of the album's song "Life of Sin" on CBS' The Late Show With David Letterman (July 14), the set returns with a 79 percent gain (3,000 sold -- its second-largest sales frame). On Top Country Albums, it rebounds 28-17. -- Audra McDonald, Lady Day At Emerson's Bar & Grill (No. 156): McDonald's Tony Award-winning turn as Billie Holiday arrives in album form, as the original Broadway cast recording sings out with 2,000 sold and debuts at No. 156. The six-time Tony winner also bows at No. 1 on four other charts: Heatseekers Albums, Jazz Albums, Traditional Jazz Albums and Cast Albums. -- The Neighbourhood, I Love You (No. 188): The album was promoted in the iTunes store as part of its chart-topper sale, helping it re-enter at No. 188 with an overall sales rise of 43 percent (downloads gained by 55 percent). The set scores its first weekly gain since May 11.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 26, 2014 21:43:00 GMT -5
Aagain...
The RIAA is not responsible for updated certifications.
It is up to the label to contact the RIAA, apply for audit, show the RIAA the shipment figures and then pay for the certification. Then, the RIAA issues the certification.
Labels have cut back their certification budgets. Especially for albums. Labels like to certify digital singles.
Recent albums by Katy Perry, Drake, Lady GaGa, Robin Thicke (BL), Josh Groban, Fall Out Boy, Chris Brown, Michael Buble all remain uncertified because labels do not want to pay.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Jul 27, 2014 0:26:18 GMT -5
It seems stupid to pay for a certification... isn't there an easier way?
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jul 27, 2014 0:56:08 GMT -5
It seems stupid to pay for a certification... isn't there an easier way?
Yes, not pay, which is what areyouready indicates is already happening.
This is the way sales(or I should say shipments) were counted before Soundscan. A higher certification proved to be a good way to promote the album. Only 6 have reached a half million do far this year, which would be the gold certification. Hardly worth the promotion at that point. The action lies with the singles.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Jul 27, 2014 0:57:47 GMT -5
It seems stupid to pay for a certification... isn't there an easier way?
Yes, not pay, which is what areyouready indicates is already happening.
This is the way sales(or I should say shipments) were counted before Soundscan. A higher certification proved to be a good way to promote the album. Only 6 have reached a half million do far this year, which would be the gold certification. Hardly worth the promotion at that point. The action lies with the singles.
I knew that not paying would be easier... I meant not paying to get a certification, I don't see the point in paying! |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 27, 2014 5:35:16 GMT -5
Aagain... The RIAA is not responsible for updated certifications. It is up to the label to contact the RIAA, apply for audit, show the RIAA the shipment figures and then pay for the certification. Then, the RIAA issues the certification.Labels have cut back their certification budgets. Especially for albums. Labels like to certify digital singles. Recent albums by Katy Perry, Drake, Lady GaGa, Robin Thicke (BL), Josh Groban, Fall Out Boy, Chris Brown, Michael Buble all remain uncertified because labels do not want to pay. for certification! Brilliant! Didn't the labels already pay for RIAA membership? If I must say so, I don't think the labels should pay, either, for something they or the artists technically paid for already and earned.Besides, if SoundScan's official tally reads 500,000, they don't need the RIAA's seal of approval to call it what it already is: Gold. As a matter of fact, I think A.C. Nielsen and Co. (which is in charge of the SoundScan system) ought to take the awards procedure out of the RIAA's hands, or hand out gold, platinum and diamond awards of their own to supersede the RIAA's (which, if I'm correct, awards for shipments these days, regardless of actual sales). I just hope SoundScan don't drink out of the RIAA's poisoned cup, and start requiring all labels to register for RIAA membership before sales of their singles and albums are even tabulated. In other words, no RIAA membership, no tally; that is, an album could go diamond, but if its record label is not an RIAA member, SoundScan would treat the album as if it didn't exist. That would be a major shark-jump if that happened. But again, the albums and singles don't need RIAA certification, so long as the SoundScan sales numbers tell them if an album or single crossed the gold level. The SoundScan figures are certification enough. |
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CookyMonzta
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Post by CookyMonzta on Jul 27, 2014 6:02:22 GMT -5
It seems stupid to pay for a certification... isn't there an easier way?
Yes, not pay, which is what areyouready indicates is already happening.
It may have been happening for at least 4 years. When last I checked, Fantasia's Back To Me (released August 2010) registered 487,000 copies sold. There is little doubt that J Records shipped 500,000 copies; which, under RIAA rules, would make this album eligible for gold. Then again, with that many sales, I'm pretty sure another 13,000 copies were sold in places where the registers were not linked to the SoundScan system. Either way, there is very little doubt that this album is gold, yet it remains uncertified. The conclusion is that J Records didn't apply/pay for certification. In the eyes of the RIAA, she has 2 gold albums when she should have 3. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 27, 2014 7:04:16 GMT -5
SoundScan looks to be the more prominent source to cite for albums, at least ones released in the 2000s and beyond. Like, if an album is certified 2 million and has scanned 2.7 million, the 2.7m figure is reported, not that it's shipped 2 million.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 27, 2014 7:43:18 GMT -5
The RIAA awards are historical. They go back to 1958.
They are also a measure of good will between the label and their recording act.
I'm sure artists hate being given an RIAA plaque! (sarcasm)
A Gold album cert is importnat to new acts. Kacey Musgrave's album was certified Gold last week.
And old acts. George Strait just got his 39th Gold album last week.
I'm sure the recording artist does unltimately pay for the certification and plaque.
I've tweeted Fantasia many times about Back To Me being eligible for Gold. Nothing has happened. RCA doesn't want to pay.
There are already more RIAA album certifications this year than this point in 2013.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 27, 2014 7:45:13 GMT -5
Yes, not pay, which is what areyouready indicates is already happening.
This is the way sales(or I should say shipments) were counted before Soundscan. A higher certification proved to be a good way to promote the album. Only 6 have reached a half million do far this year, which would be the gold certification. Hardly worth the promotion at that point. The action lies with the singles.
I knew that not paying would be easier... I meant not paying to get a certification, I don't see the point in paying! A certification costs $350. Cheap! |
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Jul 27, 2014 9:26:36 GMT -5
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