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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:29:58 GMT -5
You can have beef with anther woman and still feel that you should be kind to women in general, can you not? Like I'm all for gay rights but if you're gay and piss me off, you can f**k right off. That was never the problem, lol. That part is obviously fine, but it is weird for her to claim to have an issue with the way women are pitted against each other IN THE MEDIA and making that her personal soapbox, while riding a diss song to media saturation for personal profit (and enforcing the 'girls are catty' stereotype that she hates). Practice what you preach! (And yes, she's allowed to make and release a song about a woman that pisses her off, but she could have left it at that instead of identifying the song's subject just bc she knew it would generate more buzz). The problem here is that anytime a girl goes in on another girl, that's going to be perceived as reinforcing the "girls are catty" stereotype. That shouldn't really be on Taylor... even if she, personally, is kind of catty in her music. Anyway, nobody-- not Taylor or anyone or her team-- named who 'Bad Blood' was about. People assumed Katy Perry. Not that I think that's wrong, but it's not like Taylor @'ed Ms. Perry and came for every strand of her weave in broad daylight. Really, the only hypocrisy I found with Taylor and 'Bad Blood' was her reply to Nicki. Taylor did profit off of pitting two women against each other (as opposed to quieting the Katy rumor), so that I'm all for calling her out for; but-- and you haven't done this, so don't think I was referring to you or anything-- I feel like in the wake of this people are coming up with ways to snipe at Taylor and, frankly, they're missing the mark.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:19:20 GMT -5
Taylor Swift and vocals would be the only other more no brainer thread answer I won't elaborate or condone this already longer than need be discussion hunties. The Queen says no feminist no feminine no nothing
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Aug 7, 2015 12:29:08 GMT -5
That part is obviously fine, but it is weird for her to claim to have an issue with the way women are pitted against each other IN THE MEDIA and making that her personal soapbox, while riding a diss song to media saturation for personal profit (and enforcing the 'girls are catty' stereotype that she hates). Practice what you preach! (And yes, she's allowed to make and release a song about a woman that pisses her off, but she could have left it at that instead of identifying the song's subject just bc she knew it would generate more buzz). The problem here is that anytime a girl goes in on another girl, that's going to be perceived as reinforcing the "girls are catty" stereotype. That shouldn't really be on Taylor... even if she, personally, is kind of catty in her music. But there's a big difference between a girl going in on a girl... and a girl who preaches against it daily going in on a girl simultaneously. It's kind of like apples to oranges. Anyway, that doesn't annoy me as much as the whole Sisterhood V.I.P. thing. It feels like that episode of Gossip Girl where Blair had to pledge allegiance to that society and prove her loyalty by kicking Serena to the curb
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:34:16 GMT -5
The problem here is that anytime a girl goes in on another girl, that's going to be perceived as reinforcing the "girls are catty" stereotype. That shouldn't really be on Taylor... even if she, personally, is kind of catty in her music. But there's a big difference between a girl going in on a girl... and a girl who preaches against it daily going in on a girl simultaneously. It's kind of like apples to oranges. Anyway, that doesn't annoy me as much as the whole Sisterhood V.I.P. thing. It feels like that episode of Gossip Girl where Blair had to pledge allegiance to that society and prove her loyalty by kicking Serena to the curb Right, I completely agree with what you're saying RE: girl going in on girl. I was just saying that I don't think what she did was reinforcing the "girls are catty" stereotype. (Well, ok, kinda-- but I've never really liked the whole "because X did Y they're reinforcing a stereotype!" line of thinking because the stereotype is the problem, not that the person who is of a stereotyped group happened to meet it. That's more of a personal belief than anything, though.) As for her group... it's kind of like a Cult. I personally don't take it that seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:52:29 GMT -5
You can have beef with anther woman and still feel that you should be kind to women in general, can you not? Like I'm all for gay rights but if you're gay and piss me off, you can f**k right off. That was never the problem, lol. There's some really weird logic in here that borders on "I don't like Taylor Swift and this is a great opportunity for me to go in even if it's not all there". Glass houses and whatnot. allow that responded perfectly. I'm out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 16:14:25 GMT -5
I'm just all looool @ the nickname "The Sisterhood" that she's given her group of friends, which makes it sound so exclusive like a members-only club. Required for membership? Being hotter than Taylor Being rich and drop dead gorgeous. Notice how before Tay was tight with supermodels she'd parade poor Lorde around like an accessory? Guess she's not glamorous enough to be a "sister." that more ore less states that John is at the very bottom of the list of reasons why she doesn't like or trust Katy. In fact, I almost wonder if this sentence - "just because you have the same taste in men, we don’t hold that against each other” - is in fact directed toward Katy, on top of the other reasons Taylor doesn't like or trust her. Well Taylor's certainly dated many of the same men as her sisterhood. She shared Joe Jonas with Gigi, Calvin with Ellie Goulding?, Harry Styles with Kendall Jenner (whom she apparently dislikes), but only Katy is a problem? No, that was my point, it's obvious that whatever reasons Taylor has for not like Katy, John isn't one of them. And in fact, if Katy is the kind of person who holds something against other women if they're her boyfriend's ex, Taylor might find that rather foul, since Taylor's all about this sister wives thing. The Lorde thing, I never thought that was real. Remember when Lorde called Taylor an "unrealistic" role model? Taylor subsequently reached out to be her 'friend.' Obviously this was a publicity move both to show how down to earth and 'real' Taylor is, and to (like with Lena) link herself to another so-called celeb feminist.** But reality is Lorde would not 'fit' with the rest of Taylor's friends and that has little to do with her looks. Her personality does not line up with that sisterhood crew, IMO. She did bring Lorde out to one of her concerts last month, though. Seems like Taylor's requirements are be hot, or be a feminist. I wonder what she would do if you were both. Taylor seems to have created a set of rules that are locked in her own mind and not divulged to the public. Taylor doesn't like that women can't express their feelings in writing without being scrutinized for it or told to 'grow up', she hates that she can't serial date in peace instead of being called boy crazy, she hates that women are portrayed as insecure/threatened by other beautiful women and that every fight is due to cattiness and being crazy over the same boys. Basically she just hates that women aren't recognized for business acumen or intelligence or other things of real value, and that their every move is boiled down to petty rivalries revolving around boys and Mean Girls-esque cliqueish stuff. I don't think Katy actually ever caught that kind of flak. Katy does get dismissed for being cheesy and basic as hell, but Katy doesn't care at all - hell, she courts it by doubling down on the cheese - so that dismissal actually works for her. This is the antithesis of the Taylor Swift business model. In Taylor's mind, what she did to Katy probably doesn't fall under that media portrayal. She's trying to tear Katy down because she thought Katy tried to come for her empire (or as she said, "it's not even about a boy!"). It's more analogous to two feuding business rivals (Think Lucious and Baretti on Empire) than a catfight (how everyone sees Cookie and Anika). And if they were guys I think it would be regarded more as the former than the latter. No one would have questioned, say, Bruno Mars if he said he wrote Uptown Funk because some other guy in the industry was always coming up to him at industry events and cracking short jokes, then later tried to steal his trombone players in the middle of Bruno's tour and Bruno finally wrote this song as a way of saying you can't stop him from succeeding. We wouldn't have even thought to go on a manhunt for the other guy. And if we'd found out who the guy was, we would have just been like 'wow, what a great way to handle that instead of starting an open fight in public!' Ironically the way the criticism is coming at Taylor over this is exactly the thing she is complaining about. Even if you put aside the trail of crumbs she left for people to figure out who she is talking about, fact is as soon as she said it people reduced to a diva catfight. And when they figured out it was Katy the immediate counter-response was that it was "just" dancers, i.e. looking for a way to say it wasn't serious and Taylor's feelings are petty and invalid. But fair or unfair, this is something she is going to have to recognize and deal with if she wants to maintain her position. Especially since she was just astute enough that she knew she could throw out some quick shade in an interview before her album release and take the media's general interest in pettiness all the way to the bank. Taylor doesn't care if you're taking sides, and probably not even if the side you take isn't hers, but I'm sure she cares a whole heckuva lot if you're not taking her seriously. **I kind of want to spin off into a whole different topic where we compare and contrast various feminist 'brands' but I'm too sorry to start the thread.
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Post by when the pawn... on Aug 7, 2015 17:39:29 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything wrong with Taylor writing a song about having a problem with a woman (Katy Perry or otherwise). Men have problems with men, men have problems with women, women have problems with men, women have problems with women.
The issue was her dropping hints about who it was and describing the situation. It irks me when any celebrities drags another, especially when the mere facts don't make it seem like Katy did anything wrong. Taylor knows what she's doing, she never names the person she writes about but always leaves enough clues for her fans to piece it together and it obviously wasn't very hard for the internet to put 2 and 2 together in this case. That, to me, was petty, in addition to blue shark at her show, the Nicki-twitter situation, etc.
IMO, Taylor is a naive girl. I think she believes in herself as a feminist but she's a bit uneducated. She also is pretty self-centered and entitled. I don't even mean this to be a huge slight against her, I think anyone this successful and famous is bound to be exposed in that way. She has handled it all very well, no matter how calculated it all is. I've always been conflicted about my feelings about her. On one hand, she is too successful to hate on and on the other, it's difficult to view much/anything that she does as genuine.
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Aug 8, 2015 1:53:05 GMT -5
She's white feminism in a nutshell.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Aug 8, 2015 14:34:35 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything wrong with Taylor writing a song about having a problem with a woman (Katy Perry or otherwise). Men have problems with men, men have problems with women, women have problems with men, women have problems with women. The issue was her dropping hints about who it was and describing the situation. It irks me when any celebrities drags another, especially when the mere facts don't make it seem like Katy did anything wrong. Taylor knows what she's doing, she never names the person she writes about but always leaves enough clues for her fans to piece it together and it obviously wasn't very hard for the internet to put 2 and 2 together in this case. That, to me, was petty, in addition to blue shark at her show, the Nicki-twitter situation, etc. IMO, Taylor is a naive girl. I think she believes in herself as a feminist but she's a bit uneducated. She also is pretty self-centered and entitled. I don't even mean this to be a huge slight against her, I think anyone this successful and famous is bound to be exposed in that way. She has handled it all very well, no matter how calculated it all is. I've always been conflicted about my feelings about her. On one hand, she is too successful to hate on and on the other, it's difficult to view much/anything that she does as genuine. This pretty much. I started a post trying to say the same thing like 3 times, but ended up deleting them cause this, in itself, doesn't warrant that many words. There is nothing wrong about her writing songs about other people, or identifying them. The half steps and hints however are stupid, and make her seem very immature. It's not about Katy or anyone else; if you're gonna talk about someone, just go all the way if it's so clear that people will find out. However even with that, what is actually the most offensive thing about it is that there seems to be an underlying thought that the Public is dumber than they actually are. It's this mentality that really rubs me the wrong way. In fact, that action itself is very non-feminist. Regardless, with her star burning as brightly as it is now, the amount of places to hide this is running out, and I'm pretty sure her Publicity crew knows this. @touch's point about people just channeling whatever dislike they have for her into this or anyshot is very true, and it's not just here. That's how backlash brews before it boils over, which goes back to my point about her Publicity team. The thing about the 'too big to criticize' argument is that it only works in the moment. At the turn of the millennium, one could have said this about Britney Spears. But time came and she was skinned and gouged by the media relentlessly from all sides for at least 3 years to the point where they took out her obituary in advance. No good PR team will let this stuff linger.
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