Az Paynter
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On Dsico's Block Listβ’
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Post by Az Paynter on May 19, 2016 11:25:06 GMT -5
Narwhals wins the game, everyone go home~
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 13:05:23 GMT -5
Well, for a bunch of loud mouth politicians this has certainly been a quiet start to the game. I donβt know where everyone is at but Iβm going to attempt to get back to something Kunt mentioned before which is the set-up. I havenβt yet played a Mafia game with a cop or even a jailkeeper so I referred back to mafiascum for this particular set up and the jailkeeper action confuses me a bit. Iβm not quite understanding how beneficial that is.
Beyond that, one of the scum abilities is a bit intimidating β the scum may arm themselves during one night meaning that if anyone targets them that night that player will die. Thatβs a little scary! Looks like this only can happen one night during the game though but itβs a bit concerning as we could lose two that same night. Am I understanding that correctly?
Question for everyone: is there anything standing out to you so far from the flavor claims? I know this isnβt necessarily the strongest thing to go off of but we havenβt much else at this point.
To me, of those that have claimed, I mentioned earlier that Kuntβs stood out, though admittedly Iβm not sure if he was just kidding or not β but heβd be the only one so far to not be an actual politician but an attribute (can I even call it that?) of a politician. If heβs joking then this is meaningless and if heβs not joking it may well be meaningless too but if Iβm to make any observations at this point well thatβd be all Iβve got as of now.
Hereβs hoping the rest of you come alive at some point because I know Iβm grasping at straws. I know weβve got plenty of time until the 23rd but for me, at least for this week, the actual day (work day) is better than the evenings to actually get into the game.
Also, here is an updated vote count: Max votes Az (if this counts) LBT votes Kunt Wot votes Libra Az votes Albie Narwhals votes Libra Kunt votes Narwhals
Not voting: Albie, Cynthia, popstop, Max
Not even around: Libra
#takethejourneywithbernie
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Post by josh on May 19, 2016 13:17:14 GMT -5
It is Day 1.Deadline has been set for 05/23/2016 at 11:59:59 PM ET. It takes 6/10 votes to lynch! Day 1 Vote Count 3:Albie: Az Kunt: LBTrocks Libra: WotUNeed Not Voting: Albie, Cynthia, Kunt, Libra, Max, Narwhals, Popstop #Mod: Yes, I'm being that picky about vote formatting. Maybe I'll lighten up later.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 14:04:31 GMT -5
Lol. I guess I see why Narwhals vote doesnβt count then. And I think I know why youβre not counting Kuntβs vote? Or maybe you just missed his (again).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 14:13:09 GMT -5
Lol I must have forgotten the colon Vote: Libra
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 14:24:18 GMT -5
Never forget the Colon. That's what I always say.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 14:37:20 GMT -5
Beyond that, one of the scum abilities is a bit intimidating β the scum may arm themselves during one night meaning that if anyone targets them that night that player will die. Thatβs a little scary! Looks like this only can happen one night during the game though but itβs a bit concerning as we could lose two that same night. Am I understanding that correctly? Question for everyone: is there anything standing out to you so far from the flavor claims? I know this isnβt necessarily the strongest thing to go off of but we havenβt much else at this point. I think you're on the right track. And it could be catastrophic. Let's say, for example, that 4 Compulsive Visitors all target a Paranoid Gun Owner on the night they arm themselves, all 4 of them would die. Granted, the chances of that scenario happening aren't extremely high, but still, it is a possibility. Scum could wipe out a whole lotta townies if things happen just right. A little scary indeed! As far as flavour claims go, I mean, we're in politics so we're all gonna seem a little scummy based off of our flavour claims lol. And flavour is just that- flavour. So not a whole lot to find suspicious with that. Oh, and by the way... I'm Bill Clinton. Vote: Albie because no one is going to be felling the bern except for you... and Trump, when my wife becomes president.
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Zeebz
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trashy
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Post by Zeebz on May 19, 2016 14:51:53 GMT -5
#Mod: Yes, I'm being that picky about vote formatting. Maybe I'll lighten up later. doubtful
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 15:06:28 GMT -5
Hey girls. I just wanted to let you girls know that I'm real messy bitch. I'm a liar, a scammer; I love robbery, and fraud. A messy bitch who lives for drama! So yeah, let's start some. Who in this game is in the Mafia? You, probably. Don't hate me because I'm Canadian. Get a haircut. Okay this flavor claiming started by kunt, is this a way to distract town by having people looking at who the flavor claims are or is it just the way to get the game started? I guess its probably just that? By itself, this post reads as either premature scum-aggression or a new player mistake. Not particularly sold on it one way or the other, in isolation. Flavour-claiming =/= role claiming. All it is, is sharing who our character is. He didn't mention role claiming. He specified flavor claiming, which he seems to grasp the difference of here: Okay that makes sense, never mind then. which is troublesome, because that weakens the "new player mistake" argument. FoS: Narwhals. Any suspicion is on the weaker side, mind you. Never forget the Colon. That's what I always say. You disgust me. I havenβt yet played a Mafia game with a cop or even a jailkeeper so I referred back to mafiascum for this particular set up and the jailkeeper action confuses me a bit. Iβm not quite understanding how beneficial that is.
Beyond that, one of the scum abilities is a bit intimidating β the scum may arm themselves during one night meaning that if anyone targets them that night that player will die. Thatβs a little scary! Looks like this only can happen one night during the game though but itβs a bit concerning as we could lose two that same night. Am I understanding that correctly? The Jailkeeper is there because most town roles in this setup are compulsive visitors, meaning they can either choose to visit someone at random each night or they're forced to (assuming the "Compulsive" condition is unchanged). Normally, the Jailkeeper would have positive and negative attributes due to its ability to role-block a player, but in this setup its actually a huge boon. If they protect a member of town who would have otherwise visited a member of scum, that player will also be protected as if the Jailkeeper were a doctor (assuming it is the vanilla variant of the role); if they are targeted by scum, that player won't die. One thing I'm wondering is whether or not the Jailkeeper takes priority over the Gun Owner condition. Meaning, if the Jailkeeper targets a member of scum, is the Jailkeeper shot, or is the Gun Owner role-blocked and can't kill anyone who targets him, including the Jailkeeper? Also wondering what happens if multiple members of town visit the same scum Gun Owner before they're 1-Shot is expended. The Cop in particular is... well, its pretty useless the Jailkeeper knows to protect him (or we get confirmation that the Gun Owner's rights have been revoked). Having said that, I almost wonder if the cop should try to stay alive and wait until late-game to even attempt to use their action. One thought I had: since we know every single player in the game has the ability to visit someone else each night, we could all agree to coordinate our visits without neccessarily role claiming (i.e, I visit Albie, Albie visits Cynthia, Cynthia visits Narwhals, and so on), see who winds up dead, and proceed from there. We would have to account for the fact that there may be three deaths in this scenario, assuming scum targets someone who doesn't visit them. The Jailkeeper would obviously have to remain inactive the first night, and for security purposes the Cop would probably be better off delegating themselves to visiting a player they're confident is town. This, obviously, does not work if the Gun Owner's have used all their shots. The more I think about this, the more holes I'm finding. Just throwing it out there though in case someone else wants to revisit it later, should it be useful. To me, of those that have claimed, I mentioned earlier that Kuntβs stood out, though admittedly Iβm not sure if he was just kidding or not β but heβd be the only one so far to not be an actual politician but an attribute (can I even call it that?) of a politician. I have never joked even once in my life, ever, Albie. Checked the OP and our would-be moderator failed to mention if safe-claims were provided or not ( @mod: isn't that required for open setups?). Point being, if there are safe-claims and I'm scum, chances are the claim I gave you was the safe-claim anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 15:07:10 GMT -5
Beyond that, one of the scum abilities is a bit intimidating β the scum may arm themselves during one night meaning that if anyone targets them that night that player will die. Thatβs a little scary! Looks like this only can happen one night during the game though but itβs a bit concerning as we could lose two that same night. Am I understanding that correctly? Question for everyone: is there anything standing out to you so far from the flavor claims? I know this isnβt necessarily the strongest thing to go off of but we havenβt much else at this point. I think you're on the right track. And it could be catastrophic. Let's say, for example, that 4 Compulsive Visitors all target a Paranoid Gun Owner on the night they arm themselves, all 4 of them would die. How do you know that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 15:11:40 GMT -5
I think you're on the right track. And it could be catastrophic. Let's say, for example, that 4 Compulsive Visitors all target a Paranoid Gun Owner on the night they arm themselves, all 4 of them would die. How do you know that? EDIT: it's in the setup notes. Nevermind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 15:14:04 GMT -5
EDIT [2]: apparently scum have to arm themselves, and don't kill on reaction, so that weakens the Jailkeeper. Also Jailkeeper doesn't roleblock scum, apparently.
Anyway I'm out bye
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 15:16:39 GMT -5
I think you're on the right track. And it could be catastrophic. Let's say, for example, that 4 Compulsive Visitors all target a Paranoid Gun Owner on the night they arm themselves, all 4 of them would die. How do you know that? I looked up the setup on Mafia Wiki to find out more about it. wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Maintaining_Law,_Order_and_Shallow_Relationships Under the PGO abilities It said if any players target the mafia the night they arm themselves, those players will be killed.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 15:17:54 GMT -5
That link didn't work, but yeah.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:03:33 GMT -5
Well, for a bunch of loud mouth politicians this has certainly been a quiet start to the game. I donβt know where everyone is at but Iβm going to attempt to get back to something Kunt mentioned before which is the set-up. I havenβt yet played a Mafia game with a cop or even a jailkeeper so I referred back to mafiascum for this particular set up and the jailkeeper action confuses me a bit. Iβm not quite understanding how beneficial that is.
Beyond that, one of the scum abilities is a bit intimidating β the scum may arm themselves during one night meaning that if anyone targets them that night that player will die. Thatβs a little scary! Looks like this only can happen one night during the game though but itβs a bit concerning as we could lose two that same night. Am I understanding that correctly?
Question for everyone: is there anything standing out to you so far from the flavor claims? I know this isnβt necessarily the strongest thing to go off of but we havenβt much else at this point.
To me, of those that have claimed, I mentioned earlier that Kuntβs stood out, though admittedly Iβm not sure if he was just kidding or not β but heβd be the only one so far to not be an actual politician but an attribute (can I even call it that?) of a politician. If heβs joking then this is meaningless and if heβs not joking it may well be meaningless too but if Iβm to make any observations at this point well thatβd be all Iβve got as of now.
Hereβs hoping the rest of you come alive at some point because I know Iβm grasping at straws. I know weβve got plenty of time until the 23rd but for me, at least for this week, the actual day (work day) is better than the evenings to actually get into the game.
Also, here is an updated vote count: Max votes Az (if this counts) LBT votes Kunt Wot votes Libra Az votes Albie Narwhals votes Libra Kunt votes Narwhals
Not voting: Albie, Cynthia, popstop, Max
Not even around: Libra
#takethejourneywithbernie Flavor roles are typically not an indication of anything. Game mods have been known to hand out some weird or outlandish town flavor roles before, and sometimes they don't hand out flavor safe claims at all.. Jailkeeper functions both as a doctor and roleblocker. So say for example you are the jailkeeper, and you target a visitor. You protect that visitor from any night kill attempt, but you also prevent him from visiting anyone that night. If you target the cop you'll protect him but also interfere with his investigative result. As for the mafia roles, I'm also confused about/still trying to wrap my mind around how the PGO shots are supposed to play out. I think where I am getting hung up is trying to figure out how the natural action resolution will resolve itself when the jailkeeper's actions are involved. E.g. if the jailkeeper and two visitors target a PGO-loaded mafia player (who also sends in the night kill) on the same night, the possibilities are: - no one dies because the jailkeeper blocked the PGO shot and the normal night kill - everyone dies because a loaded PGO > a jailkeeper/roleblocker attempt - everyone who targets the PGO dies, but the night kill doesn't go through because of the jailkeeper - the jailkeeper dies because he targeted a loaded PGO, but he effectively shields the other players from the PGO and normal night kill and how we as town should approach our night actions varies considerably based on on which of those possibilities is the answer. It shouldn't be that likely but one mafia player could theoretically take out four players at once and immediately bring the game to a MYLO or LYLO situation on Night 1. If something like this were to happen on Night 2 it would probably be game over. Much as I hate RVS'ing, I feel like I should have my vote on someone so Vote: Popstop for being a thirst trap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:05:23 GMT -5
ugh i REALLY have to stop letting posts sit on my page for an hour before hitting submit, i now have to play catch-up. brb
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:28:46 GMT -5
One thing I'm wondering is whether or not the Jailkeeper takes priority over the Gun Owner condition. Meaning, if the Jailkeeper targets a member of scum, is the Jailkeeper shot, or is the Gun Owner role-blocked and can't kill anyone who targets him, including the Jailkeeper? Also wondering what happens if multiple members of town visit the same scum Gun Owner before they're 1-Shot is expended. The Cop in particular is... well, its pretty useless [unless] the Jailkeeper knows to protect him (or we get confirmation that the Gun Owner's rights have been revoked). Having said that, I almost wonder if the cop should try to stay alive and wait until late-game to even attempt to use their action. One thought I had: since we know every single player in the game has the ability to visit someone else each night, we could all agree to coordinate our visits without neccessarily role claiming (i.e, I visit Albie, Albie visits Cynthia, Cynthia visits Narwhals, and so on), see who winds up dead, and proceed from there. We would have to account for the fact that there may be three deaths in this scenario, assuming scum targets someone who doesn't visit them. The Jailkeeper would obviously have to remain inactive the first night, and for security purposes the Cop would probably be better off delegating themselves to visiting a player they're confident is town. This, obviously, does not work if the Gun Owner's have used all their shots. The more I think about this, the more holes I'm finding. Just throwing it out there though in case someone else wants to revisit it later, should it be useful. On these thoughts: 1. The Cop is definitely weakened here but I don't know that not using his action at all is the best solution. Maybe, rather than considering the cop 'useless' we should treat that role as a compulsive visitor with a bonus power. After all, odds of the cop dying are essentially the same as the odds of any other town player being taken out, so if nothing else he can at least try to clear some people and leave breadcrumbs in case he does die (whether by PGO, NK, or mislynch). 2. I was actually just considering/hesitant on suggesting the coordination of actions for the same reasons. There are a lot of pitfalls to it - namely, that the mere suggestion of it gives mafia a chance to maneuver around it - but maybe there is a way to make it work and pigeonhole them regardless.
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Post by josh on May 19, 2016 16:36:40 GMT -5
#Mod: Scum were given safe claims, yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:37:48 GMT -5
Oh yeah and also the reason my confusion over jailkeeper remains is this: I looked up the setup on Mafia Wiki to find out more about it. wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Maintaining_Law,_Order_and_Shallow_Relationships Under the PGO abilities It said if any players target the mafia the night they arm themselves, those players will be killed. The jailkeeper role PM states that it does not prevent the PGOs from arming themselves, but that is still ambiguous, as it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially or wholly ineffective
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:40:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah and also the reason my confusion over jailkeeper remains is this: I looked up the setup on Mafia Wiki to find out more about it. wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Maintaining_Law,_Order_and_Shallow_Relationships Under the PGO abilities It said if any players target the mafia the night they arm themselves, those players will be killed. The jailkeeper role PM states that it does not prevent the PGOs from arming themselves, but that is still ambiguous, as it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially or wholly ineffective hit submit too soon. it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially ineffective. (On re-read it is clear that the jailkeeper himself would die if he targets a PGO but I was still not sure about what that means for other players who visit the armed PGO at the same time.) It is probably best to err on the side of super caution and assume the PGO bullet defeats a jailkeeper target.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:45:24 GMT -5
One thing I'm wondering is whether or not the Jailkeeper takes priority over the Gun Owner condition. Meaning, if the Jailkeeper targets a member of scum, is the Jailkeeper shot, or is the Gun Owner role-blocked and can't kill anyone who targets him, including the Jailkeeper? Also wondering what happens if multiple members of town visit the same scum Gun Owner before they're 1-Shot is expended. The Cop in particular is... well, its pretty useless [unless] the Jailkeeper knows to protect him (or we get confirmation that the Gun Owner's rights have been revoked). Having said that, I almost wonder if the cop should try to stay alive and wait until late-game to even attempt to use their action. One thought I had: since we know every single player in the game has the ability to visit someone else each night, we could all agree to coordinate our visits without neccessarily role claiming (i.e, I visit Albie, Albie visits Cynthia, Cynthia visits Narwhals, and so on), see who winds up dead, and proceed from there. We would have to account for the fact that there may be three deaths in this scenario, assuming scum targets someone who doesn't visit them. The Jailkeeper would obviously have to remain inactive the first night, and for security purposes the Cop would probably be better off delegating themselves to visiting a player they're confident is town. This, obviously, does not work if the Gun Owner's have used all their shots. The more I think about this, the more holes I'm finding. Just throwing it out there though in case someone else wants to revisit it later, should it be useful. On these thoughts: 1. The Cop is definitely weakened here but I don't know that not using his action at all is the best solution. Maybe, rather than considering the cop 'useless' we should treat that role as a compulsive visitor with a bonus power. After all, odds of the cop dying are essentially the same as the odds of any other town player being taken out, so if nothing else he can at least try to clear some people and leave breadcrumbs in case he does die (whether by PGO, NK, or mislynch). 2. I was actually just considering/hesitant on suggesting the coordination of actions for the same reasons. There are a lot of pitfalls to it - namely, that the mere suggestion of it gives mafia a chance to maneuver around it - but maybe there is a way to make it work and pigeonhole them regardless. 1. Thank you for editing that "unless" into my post, lol. I don't know if I'd consider the Cop compulsive as, unlike the town, it has the options of simply electing to sit out for a night. In certain situations this increases its chance of survival by being selective of who it investigates and when it decides to do so. Useless wasn't the right word, but it demands unconventional play and mixups this game. 2. The biggest issue I face is that the Gun Owner's don't shoot someone on arrival; I thought they were compulsive too. They can just elect not to use their power and continue to nightkill while we WIFOM ourselves over whether or not the person died because they were NKed, visited someone armed and the NK target was just protected, etc. etc. So that totally ruins any utility that plan had as far as I'm concerned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:47:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah and also the reason my confusion over jailkeeper remains is this: The jailkeeper role PM states that it does not prevent the PGOs from arming themselves, but that is still ambiguous, as it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially or wholly ineffective hit submit too soon. it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially ineffective. (On re-read it is clear that the jailkeeper himself would die if he targets a PGO but I was still not sure about what that means for other players who visit the armed PGO at the same time.) It is probably best to err on the side of super caution and assume the PGO bullet defeats a jailkeeper target. I'm confused by what you're asking. Are you asking if the Jailkeeper renders the bullet ineffective if the Gun Owner is visited by the player the Jailkeeper is protecting? Because if the Jailkeeper targets someone who would have otherwise visited a Gun Owner, that player would be role-blocked and would never visit the Gun Owner to be shot in the first place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:06:28 GMT -5
hit submit too soon. it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially ineffective. (On re-read it is clear that the jailkeeper himself would die if he targets a PGO but I was still not sure about what that means for other players who visit the armed PGO at the same time.) It is probably best to err on the side of super caution and assume the PGO bullet defeats a jailkeeper target. I'm confused by what you're asking. Are you asking if the Jailkeeper renders the bullet ineffective if the Gun Owner is visited by the player the Jailkeeper is protecting? Because if the Jailkeeper targets someone who would have otherwise visited a Gun Owner, that player would be role-blocked and would never visit the Gun Owner to be shot in the first place. No, I was asking what would happen if the jailkeeper targeted an armed PGO - it seems clear the jailkeeper would die from this, but if other players visited that PGO would they also die? But the more I think about it the more I think I was grasping at straws/wishfully thinking. The jailkeeper would be powerless against an armed PGO. Re: your other post - if I'm not mistaken the cop isn't compulsive but if he were to pretend that he was, and sent in a target every night, he would essentially function as one + get a result back on whoever he visits. That's what I was getting at. I just hate the idea of the cop role going to waste, but it does seem like it's a much harder role to play with in this game, just out of the fear of dying. I am assuming the game mods will not distinguish between a NK victim and a PGO victim but I would think having more than one death in one night would be a tipoff...unless mafia decides not to submit a NK on the same night they load themselves, luck up and are visited by only one person. I'm going to stop myself there because I don't want to give scum any more bright ideas with all my thoughts on how things could pan out, but the PGO aspect isn't the easiest thing for them to work with either. Multiple deaths might be more traceable. By 'compulsive' you mean the PGO role once in effect? Just clarifying, I didn't read those roles as compulsive but I realize now I think we're looking at it in a different way - I was considering the role as active in the sense that it's one shot and scum chooses when to load it, but yeah, once in effect it is a passive/compulsive power.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 17:13:55 GMT -5
Oh yeah and also the reason my confusion over jailkeeper remains is this: The jailkeeper role PM states that it does not prevent the PGOs from arming themselves, but that is still ambiguous, as it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially or wholly ineffective hit submit too soon. it doesn't indicate whether the jailkeeper's action could render the loaded bullet partially ineffective. (On re-read it is clear that the jailkeeper himself would die if he targets a PGO but I was still not sure about what that means for other players who visit the armed PGO at the same time.) It is probably best to err on the side of super caution and assume the PGO bullet defeats a jailkeeper target. Wouldn't it mean nothing for the other visitors if the Jailkeeper didn't target them? The other visitors would die because they targeted a PGO the night they armed themselves. And I was just going to say pretty much what Kunt said about the Jailkeeper dying if they target the PGO on the night they use their 1-s. The only way a Jailkeeper could prevent a visitor from getting killed is if they protected them on the night a PGO arms themselves. I think their protection is also good against mafia factional kills. The validity of what I'm saying here is based on if I'm understanding things correctly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:23:09 GMT -5
I'm confused by what you're asking. Are you asking if the Jailkeeper renders the bullet ineffective if the Gun Owner is visited by the player the Jailkeeper is protecting? Because if the Jailkeeper targets someone who would have otherwise visited a Gun Owner, that player would be role-blocked and would never visit the Gun Owner to be shot in the first place. No, I was asking what would happen if the jailkeeper targeted an armed PGO - it seems clear the jailkeeper would die from this, but if other players visited that PGO would they also die? But the more I think about it the more I think I was grasping at straws/wishfully thinking. The jailkeeper would be powerless against an armed PGO. Re: your other post - if I'm not mistaken the cop isn't compulsive but if he were to pretend that he was, and sent in a target every night, he would essentially function as one + get a result back on whoever he visits. That's what I was getting at. I just hate the idea of the cop role going to waste, but it does seem like it's a much harder role to play with in this game, just out of the fear of dying. I am assuming the game mods will not distinguish between a NK victim and a PGO victim but I would think having more than one death in one night would be a tipoff...unless mafia decides not to submit a NK on the same night they load themselves, luck up and are visited by only one person. I'm going to stop myself there because I don't want to give scum any more bright ideas with all my thoughts on how things could pan out, but the PGO aspect isn't the easiest thing for them to work with either. Multiple deaths might be more traceable. By 'compulsive' you mean the PGO role once in effect? Just clarifying, I didn't read those roles as compulsive but I realize now I think we're looking at it in a different way - I was considering the role as active in the sense that it's one shot and scum chooses when to load it, but yeah, once in effect it is a passive/compulsive power. Oh, yeah, I assume that as the Jailkeeper does not stop the Gun Owner from arming himself, he is still able to fire at anyone who visits that night. Can a Gun Owner confirm? I get what you're saying about the Cop, but I just... don't agree. That said, I'm factually an idiot for my earlier proposal that the Jailkeeper and Cop should work in tandem because, no shit, the Jailkeeper is a roleblocker. So idk, I'll just let the Cop do them. By "complusive", I meant the mafia automatically killed anyone who visited them once and they didn't get to choose when they were armed; rather, they always were. But yeah, your rundown of a given scenario, or one that considers the Jailkeeper successfully protecting someone from a scum kill, leaves too much to chance regarding that strategy. I think it's best we just throw it out.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:37:59 GMT -5
Okay, I've been reading through everything regarding the setup and I've never played or followed a game with a Jailbreaker. I'm not fully understanding what's their purpose and how is it different from a visitor?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 19, 2016 17:49:55 GMT -5
Hi.
I forgot the rule about bolding the whole thing. Neither here nor there.
All of these abbrev.s are giving me a headache. I need to re-read the game setup - and then probably re-read everything posted so far.
No reads on anything yet. Also, I assume WotUNeed is Trump based on that heartfelt speech he gave? If so, that's as much a scum read as I can muster for the moment.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 17:51:08 GMT -5
Ok Iβm going around in circles on this but I am actually thinking that the jailkeeper wonβt die if they target the PGO. The role pm found here states that it wonβt prevent the PGO from arming themselves and this one here states they will role block. This page also states:
Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
So in that case, wouldnβt the target be the jailkeeper themselves in which case they would not die from the PGO bullet? Now, they canβt stop the PGO from arming themselves so if Compulsive Visitors also target the PGO then they will die. But Iβm thinking the jailkeeper would actually protect itself. Does that make sense or am I truly running myself in circles here?
But then also where I am unsure is whether the NK would be blocked if the jailkeeper managed to target a PGO. I cannot figure that part out.
Also, Max and Libra have been super quiet for like 24 hours - well Libra has been mute actually. Where are you guys?
I don't have my vote on anyone so for now, Vote: Max because Libra already has two votes on him (I think Narwhals vote actually counts this time).
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 19, 2016 18:01:59 GMT -5
Ok, so completely ignoring all the discussion so far, I'm using this page as our reference: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Maintaining_Law,_Order_and_Shallow_Relationships So, we have two 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owners as our scum team. As per normal, they send in their one NK, but they also have the ability to arm themselves to kill anyone who visits them on one particular night for any reason. Ok. Understood. We have a cop. We know how that works. We have a jailkeeper, who protects and prevents another player from doing anything. So, my interpretation of this is, hypothetically, the jailkeeper could protect one of the scum. If that scum sends in a NK, it doesn't go through. If that scum arms themselves, the jailkeeper dies? If the scum does both, the NK doesn't go through but the jailkeeper dies? My guess is, if a jailkeeper and someone else performs a night action on the same scum, who also happens to be armed, they both die. Compulsive visitor. This is a stressful role to have. lol. Like russian roulette. So... pardon me if all of this has already been established. I wanted to kind of clear it out for myself first.
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Az Paynter
Diamond Member
On Dsico's Block Listβ’
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 110,425
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Post by Az Paynter on May 19, 2016 18:06:07 GMT -5
Hai, just been reading over everything~
Through all the speculation re: Jailkeeper vs. PGO, my untested theory is this:
If JK targets PGO while PGO is unarmed, he would block that scum member if they were the one to make the factional kill. If JK targets PGO while PGO is armed, he's #DEAD as the PGO kills whoever visited him (JK targeting PGO would count as visiting). Factional kill would also go unblocked as a consequence if that scum member is the one to do the killing.
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