Sturgill Simpson discussion

[Daryl the Beryl]

Any other fans of Sturgill here?

[Hurricane Lee]

UGGGGH. I legit can't get past that opening song on his new album. It is pure perfection. I want to keep restarting it when it's over but for real, great album by an amazing talent. He is a bit of a mumbler but I can get past it. I saw him perform briefly at Firefly last year and was blown away. Thanks for starting this thread!

[when the pawn...]

Love the album and saw him play an album-release show last month - the show was fantastic.

[Deleted]

The album is excellent, and "Brace For Impact" has been one of my most played tracks of the past few months.

[Hurricane Lee]

I'm loving the country-blues-soul hybrid artists. Chris Stapleton, Sturgill, and Nate Rateliff are three of my artists right now.

[Ten Pound Hammer]

I was talking mainly about "Turtles All the Way Down", which I still find one of the most byzantine country songs I've ever heard in my life. As I've said, I've had it explained to me several times, but I still don't have even the slighest idea what it's about.

"Pollywog" even seems a little too contrived for my tastes. What's this stuff about God being a fisherman?

[dm2081]

Jun 20, 2016 21:28:14 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

I was talking mainly about "Turtles All the Way Down", which I still find one of the most byzantine country songs I've ever heard in my life. As I've said, I've had it explained to me several times, but I still don't have even the slighest idea what it's about.

"Pollywog" even seems a little too contrived for my tastes. What's this stuff about God being a fisherman?

"Turtles All the Way Down" is definitely making a statement about how certain drugs are illegal but could have potentially more "natural uses", like DMT since he reference's a drug that is illegal that is naturally made in our brains.  I think its more allocating for the legalization of certain drugs (or at least for decriminalization).

[dm2081]

Jun 20, 2016 21:19:02 GMT -5 mrck said:

Jun 20, 2016 20:00:19 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

if Sturgill Simpson's current output is so layered and cerebral that you need a master's in psychology just to figure out what his songs are even about, what the hell will he be putting out in 20 years?

5. "In Bloom" - again, I'll give it you but remember, it's a Nirvana song first and foremost.

Also, the original by Nirvana is supposedly about how arrogant and intolerant some people are towards others, with the chorus making fun of the listener by saying they'll sing along to the song but not understand the point (source: www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2345)

[Andy]

Jun 20, 2016 21:28:14 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

"Pollywog" even seems a little too contrived for my tastes. What's this stuff about God being a fisherman?

Now that the narrator is a father, he realizes that enjoying his son as much as possible is the best way to live out the rest of his life. What's perhaps the most common/stereotypical activity that fathers and sons engage in that involves spending quality time together? Fishing. So the narrator now understands his grandfather's joke that God must a fisherman - since fishing is such a wholesome, fulfilling activity, that's probably how God chooses to spend his time. To be clear, this is meant to be a humorous observation, not a serious theological assertion. That's my take, at least.

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jun 21, 2016 18:24:56 GMT -5 Andy said:

Jun 20, 2016 21:28:14 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

"Pollywog" even seems a little too contrived for my tastes. What's this stuff about God being a fisherman?

Now that the narrator is a father, he realizes that enjoying his son as much as possible is the best way to live out the rest of his life. What's perhaps the most common/stereotypical activity that fathers and sons engage in that involves spending quality time together? Fishing.

It is?!?

So the narrator now understands his grandfather's joke that God must a fisherman - since fishing is such a wholesome, fulfilling activity, that's probably how God chooses to spend his time. To be clear, this is meant to be a humorous observation, not a serious theological assertion. That's my take, at least.

There's a joke about that? That seems like an incredible number of hoops to jump through just to get to a single meaning.

[Andy]

Jun 21, 2016 20:16:15 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

It is?!?

Sure. "Kids getting up early on the weekend and going fishing with dad/grandpa to spend quality time together (sometimes unwillingly)" is a common trope in media I've seen numerous times.

Even just within country music, Trace Adkins had a whole song about it, and it's been mentioned/implied in a few other tunes, like "Live Like You Were Dying."

Jun 21, 2016 20:16:15 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

There's a joke about that? That seems like an incredible number of hoops to jump through just to get to a single meaning.

It's not a widespread, universally-known joke. It's a witty line that the narrator's grandfather (who was probably a fishing fanatic and took the narrator's father fishing a lot) came up with, and the narrator finally understands what he meant, because he too now has a son of his own, and understands how important is it to spend quality time together.

I honestly understand what the line meant the first time I listened to the song. But I guess I'm used to this kind of songwriting.

[Hurricane Lee]

"Come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" - Matthew 4:19. Catching souls for Jesus/God the way fishermen catch fish, i.e. via a broad net (in the Bible sense, via evangelism.) I thought this was a fairly common metaphor, no? Although, the irony of someone referring to a song as "byzantine" while complaining about songs being esoteric and verbose was not at all lost on me.

[Andy]

Jun 22, 2016 13:41:30 GMT -5 Hurricane Lee said:

"Come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" - Matthew 4:19. Catching souls for Jesus/God the way fishermen catch fish, i.e. via a broad net (in the Bible sense, via evangelism.) I thought this was a fairly common metaphor, no? Although, the irony of someone referring to a song as "byzantine" while complaining about songs being esoteric and verbose was not at all lost on me.

I was entirely unaware of that Biblical verse and metaphor, so your interpretation is likely far closer to Sturgill's intended meaning than the one I posted earlier. Now that I have this knowledge, I read the verse differently: now that the narrator has had a son and experienced true beauty, he has become a lot more appreciative of God. In other words, God has "hooked" the narrator by giving him a son, something that previously happened to his grandfather.

Ah, I get it now. That's some great songwriting, and I learned something new.

Ten Pound Hammer is right that Sturgill's music can be a bit challenging (like the work of most any great songwriter), and obviously people are going to interpret some lyrics differently based on their knowledge, experiences, etc. I'd argue that's a very positive feature that's to be celebrated, not a flaw.

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jun 22, 2016 14:17:48 GMT -5 Andy said:

I was entirely unaware of that Biblical verse and metaphor, so your interpretation is likely far closer to Sturgill's intended meaning than the one I posted earlier. Now that I have this knowledge, I read the verse differently: now that the narrator has had a son and experienced true beauty, he has become a lot more appreciative of God. In other words, God has "hooked" the narrator by giving him a son, something that previously happened to his grandfather.

Ah, I get it now. That's some great songwriting, and I learned something new.

Ten Pound Hammer is right that Sturgill's music can be a bit challenging (like the work of most any great songwriter), and obviously people are going to interpret some lyrics differently based on their knowledge, experiences, etc. I'd argue that's a very positive feature that's to be celebrated, not a flaw.

So you have to listen to them 300 times to even figure out what they're about, then 300 more to draw your own conclusion from them. Because God forbid anything should be accessible.

[Andy]

Jun 22, 2016 18:37:12 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

Jun 22, 2016 14:17:48 GMT -5 Andy said:

I was entirely unaware of that Biblical verse and metaphor, so your interpretation is likely far closer to Sturgill's intended meaning than the one I posted earlier. Now that I have this knowledge, I read the verse differently: now that the narrator has had a son and experienced true beauty, he has become a lot more appreciative of God. In other words, God has "hooked" the narrator by giving him a son, something that previously happened to his grandfather.

Ah, I get it now. That's some great songwriting, and I learned something new.

Ten Pound Hammer is right that Sturgill's music can be a bit challenging (like the work of most any great songwriter), and obviously people are going to interpret some lyrics differently based on their knowledge, experiences, etc. I'd argue that's a very positive feature that's to be celebrated, not a flaw.

So you have to listen to them 300 times to even figure out what they're about, then 300 more to draw your own conclusion from them. Because God forbid anything should be accessible.

There is an enormous amount of music in existence that's extremely accessible. Nothing wrong with that. There's also some music that requires the listener to pay attention and think a little. Nothing wrong with that either.

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jun 22, 2016 18:48:53 GMT -5 Andy said:

There is an enormous amount of music in existence that's extremely accessible. Nothing wrong with that. There's also some music that requires the listener to pay attention and think a little. Nothing wrong with that either.

But doesn't music lose something if you have to listen to it 400 times to figure out what it's even about? At least in country, which has historically been a very unpretentious, accessible genre ("three chords and the truth")? Even most of the country songs I can think of that require some thought on the listener's part are still ultimately about relatable subjects (for instance, I just listened to "Aces" by Suzy Bogguss).

I have that problem with a lot of alternative country. So much of it seems to be written on such a ridiculously personal level that I have no idea how anyone that's not the artist can even figure out what the song's even about, much less make any attempt to relate to it.

On the same level, part of me wants to be more challenged by the material I listen to. There are lots of songs I listen to, mostly outside the country genre, that have strange twisty lyrics that I don't even begin to understand. But my inability to wrap my head around the lyrics of a song like (to pick just one in my library) "Feel Good Inc." prevents me from enjoying it more.

Getting back to Sturgill, I listened to "Brace for Impact" and while I like the music more than some of his other stuff, I still have beyond no clue what that song's about either.

[Hurricane Lee]

At this point, you should probably just give up. Sturgill clearly isn't for you.

[Andy]

Jul 28, 2016 0:58:00 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

Jun 22, 2016 18:48:53 GMT -5 Andy said:

There is an enormous amount of music in existence that's extremely accessible. Nothing wrong with that. There's also some music that requires the listener to pay attention and think a little. Nothing wrong with that either.

But doesn't music lose something if you have to listen to it 400 times to figure out what it's even about? At least in country, which has historically been a very unpretentious, accessible genre ("three chords and the truth")? Even most of the country songs I can think of that require some thought on the listener's part are still ultimately about relatable subjects (for instance, I just listened to "Aces" by Suzy Bogguss).

I have that problem with a lot of alternative country. So much of it seems to be written on such a ridiculously personal level that I have no idea how anyone that's not the artist can even figure out what the song's even about, much less make any attempt to relate to it.

On the same level, part of me wants to be more challenged by the material I listen to. There are lots of songs I listen to, mostly outside the country genre, that have strange twisty lyrics that I don't even begin to understand. But my inability to wrap my head around the lyrics of a song like (to pick just one in my library) "Feel Good Inc." prevents me from enjoying it more.

Getting back to Sturgill, I listened to "Brace for Impact" and while I like the music more than some of his other stuff, I still have beyond no clue what that song's about either.

Good post. I'll unpack my thoughts here as best as I can.

Most mainstream country is extremely literal and straightforward. A happened, B happened, I feel C, etc. There's very little room for interpretation or ambiguity. This is one of the main reasons why historically country music is perceived as hokey and unsophisticated by outsiders. I think you'll agree with me that this characterization is extremely unfair because there can be profound truth, nuance and elegance in simplicity.

But most music in existence, including a good deal of alt-country, is not as straightforward. This doesn't make it better or worse in my view, just different. It's normal for a song to give you an "outline" that consists of some, but not all of the details of the story, emotion, etc. being expressed. You're supposed to fill in the remainder through some combination of inference, conjecture, inserting the details of your own life experience, and just plain ol' using your imagination. Some songs might give you a very detailed "outline", while others will give you very little to work with. The lyrics aren't meaningless, but they're ambiguous enough that different people might get different things out of the song. The main reason why this lyrical style exists is because unlike novelists, songwriters only have so much time and space to work with. If they want to tell complex stories or express complicated emotions, they can't describe every little thing in great detail. They have to imply some things and ask the listener to use their imagination. It's in this way that great songwriters can blow your mind in only sixteen or twenty lines.

And of course, there are songs with nonsensical "word salad" lyrics. Don't worry about "getting" the lyrics, because there's not a whole lot to get. Just enjoy the melody, vocals, instrumentation, whatever. Pure word salad lyrics are quite rare even in alternative country in my experience, but are fairly common in other genres. Assuming the "Feel Good Inc." you mean is by the Gorillaz, it's a great example of this. I listened to it twice and followed along with the lyrics. I really enjoyed the song, but the lyrics seemed nonsensical to me. That's not really a flaw for this kind of song because the meaning of the lyrics is not the focus. If you analyze each line and try to get some literal meaning (chocolate attack?), you'll go nuts. Basically, I infer from the title and the overall tone that the song is about being happy and living free and I don't give it much more thought than that.

It seems to me that you might be expecting lyrics to always have a literal, concrete meaning like mainstream country songs usually do, and thus have become hung up on "getting" songs. I encourage you to let go of this way of thinking if possible. Remember that songs are artistic expressions, not mathematical equations to which there's only one right answer. Just listen to it, and whatever the song makes you think and feel is the meaning of the song to you. And if you're not sure what the song's about, that's okay too. There are plenty of songs I don't understand either, but still like listening to them because I find them stimulating and/or enjoyable for other reasons.

While there are some Sturgill songs that are admittedly a bit out there, "Brace for Impact" probably has the most conventional theme on Sailor's Guide in my view. Basically, the song is about death, how we'll all have to face it some day, and how we should make the most of our time alive. It's similar to Clint Black's "No Time to Kill."

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jul 28, 2016 14:46:54 GMT -5 Andy said:

It seems to me that you might be expecting lyrics to always have a literal, concrete meaning like mainstream country songs usually do, and thus have become hung up on "getting" songs. I encourage you to let go of this way of thinking if possible. Remember that songs are artistic expressions, not mathematical equations to which there's only one right answer. Just listen to it, and whatever the song makes you think and feel is the meaning of the song to you. And if you're not sure what the song's about, that's okay too. There are plenty of songs I don't understand either, but still like listening to them because I find them stimulating and/or enjoyable for other reasons.

I just feel like I should be getting SOMEthing out of even a more obtusely written song, and not just "huh?". And "Huh?" is all I ever get even if I like how the song sounds. And it just feels wrong to me that I can't just get myself to enjoy a song for the sake of enjoying it.

Jul 28, 2016 14:46:54 GMT -5 Andy said:

While there are some Sturgill songs that are admittedly a bit out there, "Brace for Impact" probably has the most conventional theme on Sailor's Guide in my view. Basically, the song is about death, how we'll all have to face it some day, and how we should make the most of our time alive.  It's similar to Clint Black's "No Time to Kill."

Huh?

You're supposed to fill in the remainder through some combination of inference, conjecture, inserting the details of your own life experience, and just plain ol' using your imagination.

Seriously, I think that's part of the problem. A lot of the songs I get hung up on are about subjects that have no meaning to me, so I have nothing to fill in the blanks with. For instance, "Pollywog" is totally meaningless to me because I was never close to my father, I'm not a father myself, and I have no concept of anything being spoken of in the song. I've never thought about the inevitability of death, so "Brace for Impact" means nothing to me, either. Come to think of it, I've never really paid attention to "No Time to Kill" either, because a lot of Clint Black's lyrics get rather convoluted too.

[Andy]

Jul 28, 2016 17:31:38 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

Seriously, I think that's part of the problem. A lot of the songs I get hung up on are about subjects that have no meaning to me, so I have nothing to fill in the blanks with. For instance, "Pollywog" is totally meaningless to me because I was never close to my father, I'm not a father myself, and I have no concept of anything being spoken of in the song. I've never thought about the inevitability of death, so "Brace for Impact" means nothing to me, either. Come to think of it, I've never really paid attention to "No Time to Kill" either, because a lot of Clint Black's lyrics get rather convoluted too.

It would seem then you can only enjoy songs unless you can relate to them specifically and directly. But on the other hand, it seems to me like you have no problem enjoying most singles on country radio. I would be surprised if you can personally relate to a lot of the songs you've talked about being a big fan of, like "Goodbye Earl" or "No News" or "One Last Time" or "Blown Away" or any number of others. What's the difference between those songs and "Brace for Impact" or whatever?

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jul 28, 2016 18:39:09 GMT -5 Andy said:

It would seem then you can only enjoy songs unless you can relate to them specifically and directly. But on the other hand, it seems to me like you have no problem enjoying most singles on country radio. I would be surprised if you can personally relate to a lot of the songs you've talked about being a big fan of, like "Goodbye Earl" or "No News" or "One Last Time" or "Blown Away" or any number of others. What's the difference between those songs and "Brace for Impact" or whatever?

Honestly, I don't relate to any of those songs either. I just somehow understand them better. "No News" is about not hearing from a woman who's left. "One Last Time" is about losing a loved one. Those both seem like more down-to-earth topics to me. "Goodbye Earl" and "Blown Away" are both about revenge on an abuser. Maybe not quite as down-to-earth, but I can understand revenge on a broad scope, since it's an emotion I've felt.

But I'm agnostic, and I don't care what anyone else believes or doesn't believe in. So lines like "We're dying to live, living to die / No matter what you believe" or "Before you go to the great unknown in the sky" mean nothing to me. And I've never given any thought as to what happens when we die.

I really don't relate to a lot of what I listen to, honestly. But I can at least understand it on a fundamental level. I can understand being in love though I haven't been there myself. I can understand loss, though I've had very VERY few of them. But so far, nothing I've heard from Sturgill touches on a subject that I have any understanding of. And that bothers me, because I want to "get" him or any other artist like him.

[Andy]

Jul 28, 2016 19:16:06 GMT -5 Ten Pound Hammer said:

Jul 28, 2016 18:39:09 GMT -5 Andy said:

It would seem then you can only enjoy songs unless you can relate to them specifically and directly. But on the other hand, it seems to me like you have no problem enjoying most singles on country radio. I would be surprised if you can personally relate to a lot of the songs you've talked about being a big fan of, like "Goodbye Earl" or "No News" or "One Last Time" or "Blown Away" or any number of others. What's the difference between those songs and "Brace for Impact" or whatever?

Honestly, I don't relate to any of those songs either. I just somehow understand them better. "No News" is about not hearing from a woman who's left. "One Last Time" is about losing a loved one. Those both seem like more down-to-earth topics to me. "Goodbye Earl" and "Blown Away" are both about revenge on an abuser. Maybe not quite as down-to-earth, but I can understand revenge on a broad scope, since it's an emotion I've felt.

But I'm agnostic, and I don't care what anyone else believes or doesn't believe in. So lines like "We're dying to live, living to die / No matter what you believe" or "Before you go to the great unknown in the sky" mean nothing to me. And I've never given any thought as to what happens when we die.

I really don't relate to a lot of what I listen to, honestly. But I can at least understand it on a fundamental level. I can understand being in love though I haven't been there myself. I can understand loss, though I've had very VERY few of them. But so far, nothing I've heard from Sturgill touches on a subject that I have any understanding of. And that bothers me, because I want to "get" him or any other artist like him.

I think you should stop putting pressure on yourself to like Sturgill. He mostly explores themes and subjects you're not very interested in. It doesn't seem like you can connect with his music, at least this point in time. And that's okay. To be honest, if you're looking to get into non-mainstream country music for the first time, he might not be a great artist to start with. You should try artists that are more similar to mainstream country, and then work your way outwards if you're so inclined. I know you might think music that isn't on the radio is from another planet or something, but most of it isn't very different than what mainstream country has sounded like at various points, including as recently as the mid-2000s. Lots of people (including me) listen to both with regularity. If you want, you can give me some songs that you can connect with and I can try to give you some songs that are similar.

[Ten Pound Hammer]

Jul 28, 2016 19:39:41 GMT -5 Andy said:

You should try artists that are more similar to mainstream country, and then work your way outwards if you're so inclined. I know you might think music that isn't on the radio is from another planet or something, but most of it isn't very different than what mainstream country has sounded like at various points, including as recently as the mid-2000s. Lots of people (including me) listen to both with regularity. If you want, you can give me some songs that you can connect with and I can try to give you some songs that are similar.

Such as?

[Andy]

Since we're getting off Sturgill, moving this discussion to the Alt-Country/Americana/etc. thread on the Country subforum...

[SHOOTER]

A Sailor's Guide to Earth has been Grammy nominated for Best Country Album and Album of the Year.

[Hurricane Lee]

I am very pleased with these nominations!

[Nick]

Not gonna lie, never heard of him before today. Need to check this out.

[maine]

I was meaning to check out his album when it came out, but never got around to it. Finally listened this morning and really liked it. Probably my favorite of the Album of the Year nom's.

[Deleted]

Sturgill Simpson Details New Album, Shares New Song “Sing Along”

Sturgill Simpson has detailed his forthcoming album Sound & Fury: It’s out September 27 (via Elektra). Check out the tracklist and cover art below. Simpson has also released the lead single from Sound & Fury. It’s called “Sing Along.” Check that out below, too.

Sound & Fury is a companion to an anime film that Simpson made in collaboration with manga artist Takashi Okazaki (Afro Samurai) and filmmaker Junpei Mizusaki (Batman Ninja). The film is set to music from the album with a different segment for each of the LP’s 10 tracks. Sound & Fury hits Netflix on September 27.

Simpson produced his new album with his bandmates Bobby Emmett, Chuck Bartels, and Miles Miller, as well as John Hill. He describes Sound & Fury as “a sleazy, steamy rock’n’roll record” in a press release.

Sturgill Simpson’s last studio album A Sailor’s Guide to Earth arrived in 2016. Earlier this year, he shared “The Dead Don’t Die” from Jim Jarmusch’s zombie movie of the same name.

Sound & Fury:

01 Ronin
02 Remember to Breathe
03 Sing Along
04 A Good Look
05 Make Art Not Friends
06 Best Clockmaker on Mars
07 All Said and Done
08 Last Man Standing
09 Mercury in Retrograde
10 Fastest Horse in Town

pitchfork.com/news/sturgill-simpson-details-new-album-shares-new-song-sing-along-listen

[Hurricane Lee]

I really dig the sound of that.