2017 March Madness Tournament **WINNER ANNOUNCED**

[Kanenrá:ke]

Apr 9, 2017 13:42:04 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

lmao indulge and I are on the same page about Alaska. I didn't wanna be harsh but my Gawd that song was bugging me for no good reason.

I'm still madT about all my matchups in this set. How you gon' have me voting against my eternal pop kween Carly AND my nu country kween Carly (possibly my favorite discovery from this whole tournament)???????? :'(

[aerodynamite]

Alicia Keys – “Illusion of Bliss” (cynthia rose, #8)

VERITÉ - "Phase Me Out" (Juan Carlos, #1)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2)

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)

Maren Morris – Sugar” (cynthia rose, #1)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

Alicia Keys – “Illusion of Bliss” (cynthia rose, #8) vs.

VERITÉ - "Phase Me Out" (Juan Carlos, #1)

Urban Cone - “Old School” (James, #3)

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4) vs.

Fitz and the Tantrums – “Roll Up” (Zedd, #7) vs.

Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

Lady Gaga – “Million Reasons” (Born In 1989, #5)

[maine]

Round 2 - Set 2 Results

Alicia Keys – “Illusion of Bliss” (cynthia rose, #8) vs.
Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2)
- One Carly is able to manage a victory (hint hint), as "Roses" barely escapes elimination. Alicia Keys was up for a decent amount of the set, but Carlegend was able to rattle off some votes for the 9-8 victory.

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4) vs.
VERITÉ - "Phase Me Out" (Juan Carlos, #1)
- Cold War Kids is able to keep trucking forward, as the Alternative songs are starting to dwindle down while this is holding strong. This is one of two Alternative songs still left in the tournament. "Love Is Mystical" wins this one 11-6. This eliminates Juan from the tournament.

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Urban Cone - “Old School” (James, #3)
- What started off sort of close, ended up being a brutal beating. "On Your Side" beats another one of my songs, and this time eliminates me from the competition. The Veronicas win 11-6. Time to boycott the tournament in protest!

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4) vs.
Aaron Carter – “Fool’s Gold” (.indulgecountry, #7)
- Pulse stays chained to the rhythm in this matchup, as it was a pretty easy victory for Katy Perry. She wins 12-5. This eliminates .indulge from the tournament.

Fitz and the Tantrums – “Roll Up” (Zedd, #7) vs.
BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)
- In a battle of Alternative songs, "One Car Funeral" is able to speed away from its own funeral, as it blows out "Roll Up" in a 12-5 victory.

Maren Morris – Sugar” (cynthia rose, #1) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)
- Bea Miller was up for a decent amount of the set, but Maren Morris started closing in. Unfortunately for Maren, she falls just short. "Song Like You" wins 9-8.

Carly Pearce - "Every Little Thing" (Kanenrá:ke Stacey, #5) vs.
Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)
- As alluded to earlier, nu country Carlegend is unable to move onto the Sweet Sixteen. "Coolin'" barely edges out "Every Little Thing", as Mya wins 9-8. This eliminates Jordan from the tournament.

Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8) vs.
Lady Gaga – “Million Reasons” (Born In 1989, #5)
- In what is probably the biggest upset of the entire tournament, Lauren Alaina is able to defeat what I thought was a Final Four contender. "Same Day Different Bottle" barely edges out the win. 9-8 in favor of Lauren. This marks our final elimination of the round, as Jim sees the end of the line here.

---

SPOILER: Click to show

{Tags!}awesomecharts
bigfan101
aerodynamite
ry4n
Kanenrá:ke
lyhom
Raccoon
zaclord 🌈
wheatsquares33
🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾
@antigonerising
@mirza
jtd Thee Stallion
MTSChart21
Juan Carlos
Sambalada
@walker9
dm2081
matteeeb
.indulgecountry
Web
YotamTS
born
Az Paynter
Daryl the Beryl
@quirkyfarang
bboat11
Butterflies & Hurricanes
sergejdordij
Leo ✔

If you would like to be tagged or don't want to be tagged, let me know.

[maine]

Apr 8, 2017 12:17:39 GMT -5 @walker9 said:

Its probably gonna be a Green Light vs Million Reasons final.

lol talk about a jinx

both songs got eliminated in the subsequent rounds after this post

[Az Paynter]

Not that I'm too thrilled with 'Million Reasons' being eliminated but :kii:

[maine]

I'm fine with it. That would have been one shitty finale.

[maine]

Update before the Sweet Sixteen! Az takes the lead for most songs remaining with 3 left. Unfortunately for him, that doesn't result in first place for him, as he has an uphill battle with 3 sort of unfavorable matchups against him. We also see 6 eliminations this round.

maine : 0 (-2 from last round)
@walker9 : 0
jtd Thee Stallion : 0
Leo ✔ : 0
bigfan101 : 1 (0)
🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾 : 1 (0)
lyhom : 1 (0)
YotamTS : 0
dm2081: 0
zaclord 🌈 : 1 (-1)
Daryl the Beryl : 0 (-1)
Raccoon : 0
Web : 0 
bboat11 : 0 
.indulgecountry : 0 (-1)
Sambalada : 2 (0)
born : 0 (-2)
Az Paynter : 3 (0)
wheatsquares33 : 1 (0)
awesomecharts : 0
aerodynamite : 1 (-1)
Kanenrá:ke : 0 (-1)
@antigonerising : 1 (-2)
Juan Carlos : 0 (-2)
ry4n : 0
matteeeb : 1 (-1)
@mirza : 2 (-2)
MTSChart21 : 1 (0)

[maine]

Sweet Sixteen

You can view the bracket through Challonge if you so wish to!

Spotify Playlist:




Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

---

SPOILER: Click to show

{Tags!}awesomecharts
bigfan101
aerodynamite
ry4n
Kanenrá:ke
lyhom
Raccoon
zaclord 🌈
wheatsquares33
🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾
@antigonerising
@mirza
jtd Thee Stallion
MTSChart21
Juan Carlos
Sambalada
@walker9
dm2081
matteeeb
.indulgecountry
Web
YotamTS
born
Az Paynter
Daryl the Beryl
@quirkyfarang
bboat11
Butterflies & Hurricanes
sergejdordij
Leo ✔

If you would like to be tagged or don't want to be tagged, let me know.

[maine]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[Leo ✔]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3)

Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2)

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

[Az Paynter]

Lol watch me lose everything in one hit.

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[lyhom]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

rip me tbh

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[zaclord 🌈]

Apr 10, 2017 11:31:33 GMT -5 maine said:

Apr 8, 2017 12:17:39 GMT -5 @walker9 said:

Its probably gonna be a Green Light vs Million Reasons final.

lol talk about a jinx

both songs got eliminated in the subsequent rounds after this post

Thanks for the jinx Gravey! I appreciate both these subpar songs being gone :)

[zaclord 🌈]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[Deleted]

Scared To Be Lonely
Stay
Call On Me
Company
Roses
Chained To The Rhythm (I love both a lot so this was super hard)
Song Like You
Coolin

[.indulgecountry]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[Deleted]

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3)

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)


1. almost all of these matchups were really hard :'( this is a really solid sweet sixteen
2. the tournaments I've participated in have made me realize that I apparently have the most in common with Az musically - I vote for his picks more than anyone else, I think. Even in the one matchup here where I didn't I had to think really hard about it. #goodtaste

[wheatsquares33]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[aerodynamite]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

[jtd Thee Stallion]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3)

Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2)

Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

[Sambalada]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose,

[Deleted]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[matteeeb]

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.

[Daryl the Beryl]

Martin Garrix & Dua Lipa - "Scared to Be Lonely" (aerodynamite, #3) vs.
Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.
Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7) vs.
Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1) vs.
Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.
Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2) vs.
Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3) vs.
Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.
Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[Kanenrá:ke]

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Zedd & Alessia Cara – “Stay” (MTSChart21, #2)

Starley – “Call on Me” (Ryan Riback Remix) (Sam, #7)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2)

The Veronicas – “On Your Side” (Az, #2)

Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Lauren Alaina – “Same Day Different Bottle” (bigfan101, #8)

[YotamTS]

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)
Ugh this one was so hard.

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3)

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)
This was really hard too.

Anja Nissen – “Where I Am” (Az, #1)

Cold War Kids – “Love Is Mystical” (Zedd, #4)

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

BadXChannels – “One Car Funeral” (wheatsquares33, #3)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3)

[maine]

Results will be up a little late today btdubs. They'll probably be posted in two hours, but normal times will continue despite this.

We're at the point where you don't need to listen to songs over again, so it should be fine.

[ry4n]

I can still vote right?

Carrie Underwood – “Dirty Laundry” (zaclord, #1)

Marshmello f/ Wrabel - "Ritual" (lyhom, #3) vs.

Loreen – “Statements” (Az, #4)

Tinashe – “Company” (HamedM1, #2)

Carly Rae Jepsen – “Roses” (Sam, #2) vs.

Katy Perry f/ Skip Marley – “Chained to the Rhythm” (Disco, #4)

Bea Miller – “Song Like You” (HamedM1, #4)

Mya – “Coolin'” (cynthia rose, #3) vs.