Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 15:09:08 GMT -5
The Hot 100 is 'flagship' chart of the magazine and the one everyone reads. Currently you need a subscription to see Bubbling Under. They could make that one free but it is still not the one everyone reads. I'm pretty sure "industry" can pay whatever fee it takes to see whatever they would release. Tell me if I'm missing something here, because by what I have gathered, they make songs go recurrent because they only release the top 100. That sounds really stupid. Sure the industry can do whatever it wants. The Hot 100 is currently a tool used by the industry to gauge how their material does. Correct me if I am wrong but the next 30 Drake songs to chart will bring in more money in a week for the industry (via streams, downloads and purchases) simply because they are new than 30 songs that have been out for three years. Those 30 new drake songs might not otherwise chart because they are being taken up by a bunch of older songs that do not bring in as much revenue. Comes down to money. Sure the Hot 100 can become the Hot 500 but the "Hot 100" is a 60 year old brand name that everyone is familiar with. |
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 15:11:05 GMT -5
What industry? Who exactly uses this chart to make business decisions? Uh... quite a lot of people. It shows the trends of what's popular in music which in turn helps to dictate future singles and projects. Why wouldn't they just look at the direct numbers instead of the position on the Hot 100? How much did each song make on iTunes? How much did each song make on the radio? How much did each song make in YouTube adsense? etc. If they were a Nashville executive, why wouldn't they just look at Country radio and Country singles sales charts? If they were some rap mogul, why wouldn't they just look at Hip-Hop only and Urban only charts? Seems like there would be way more efficient and relevant ways to gauge things for a business decision than using the Hot 100. I see this argument a lot, but I kind of disagree with it. What industry? Who exactly uses this chart to make business decisions? Who would need to know that a random Kendrick Lamar album cut is getting more listens on Spotify than a Tim McGraw song is getting on Country radio? Seems like the only reason there could be for comparing two songs like that is for curiosity's sake. Can't imagine a person that it could help practically. And whoever this random industry person is, who is comparing Kendrick Lamar album cuts to Country radio hits, why would it hurt them to see Uptown Funk on the charts for 120 weeks in a row? The weird rules are with the Hot 100, no rules with Spotify charts. If the bottom half of the chart gets clogged with the Uptown Funk - type hits that could other wise chart for years at a time (as opposed to weeks) that leaves less space on the charts for labels and music executives to get exposure for new material that they choose to roll out. Less exposure for new material then means less money. As this is the Hot 100 and not the Hot 500, space is limited to just 100 songs. I don't think you get what I'm saying when I compare something like "Blood" by Kendrick Lamar (that got 90%+ of its success from Spotify) to something like "You Look Good" by Lady Antebellum (which owes all its success to Country radio and some singles sales). These songs exist on opposite corners of the music universe. Their success relative to one another isn't relevant to anybody on an industry level. Can you give me an example of one business decision that couldn't easily be made if the bottom 10 or even bottom 25 positions of the Hot 100 was pushed off the charts by recurrent hits like Uptown Funk? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 15:18:11 GMT -5
Uh... quite a lot of people. It shows the trends of what's popular in music which in turn helps to dictate future singles and projects. Why wouldn't they just look at the direct numbers instead of the position on the Hot 100? How much did each song make on iTunes? How much did each song make on the radio? How much did each song make in YouTube adsense? etc. If they were a Nashville executive, why wouldn't they just look at Country radio and Country singles sales charts? If they were some rap mogul, why wouldn't they just look at Hip-Hop only and Urban only charts? Seems like there would be way more efficient and relevant ways to gauge things for a business decision than using the Hot 100. The weird rules are with the Hot 100, no rules with Spotify charts. If the bottom half of the chart gets clogged with the Uptown Funk - type hits that could other wise chart for years at a time (as opposed to weeks) that leaves less space on the charts for labels and music executives to get exposure for new material that they choose to roll out. Less exposure for new material then means less money. As this is the Hot 100 and not the Hot 500, space is limited to just 100 songs. I don't think you get what I'm saying when I compare something like "Blood" by Kendrick Lamar (that got 90%+ of its success from Spotify) to something like "You Look Good" by Lady Antebellum (which owes all its success to Country radio and some singles sales). These songs exist on opposite corners of the music universe. Their success relative to one another isn't relevant to anybody on an industry level. Can you give me an example of one business decision that couldn't easily be made if the bottom 10 or even bottom 25 positions of the Hot 100 was pushed off the charts by recurrent hits like Uptown Funk? The 10 or 25 songs would not chart because they are being pushed out by older songs. People will then be less likely to know those songs are out and will be less likely to buy them. Then the labels (if they care to) would need to spend more more to market them to get people aware that they are out. Getting people aware of Uptown Funk does not require any marketing. Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it than they otherwise would because it gets pushed off the chart by older songs. Spotify playlists,radio playlists and everything else that drives "music consumption" would then be impacted because of exposure on this chart. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 15:34:30 GMT -5
Why wouldn't they just look at the direct numbers instead of the position on the Hot 100? How much did each song make on iTunes? How much did each song make on the radio? How much did each song make in YouTube adsense? etc. If they were a Nashville executive, why wouldn't they just look at Country radio and Country singles sales charts? If they were some rap mogul, why wouldn't they just look at Hip-Hop only and Urban only charts? Seems like there would be way more efficient and relevant ways to gauge things for a business decision than using the Hot 100. I don't think you get what I'm saying when I compare something like "Blood" by Kendrick Lamar (that got 90%+ of its success from Spotify) to something like "You Look Good" by Lady Antebellum (which owes all its success to Country radio and some singles sales). These songs exist on opposite corners of the music universe. Their success relative to one another isn't relevant to anybody on an industry level. Can you give me an example of one business decision that couldn't easily be made if the bottom 10 or even bottom 25 positions of the Hot 100 was pushed off the charts by recurrent hits like Uptown Funk? The 10 or 25 songs would not chart because they are being pushed out by older songs. People will then be less likely to know those songs are out and will be less likely to buy them. Then the labels (if they care to) would need to spend more more to market them to get people aware that they are out. Getting people aware of Uptown Funk does not require any marketing. Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it than they otherwise would because it gets pushed off the chart by older songs. Spotify playlists,radio playlists and everything else that drives "music consumption" would then be impacted because of exposure on this chart. Gary you just said that the reason why songs go recurrent is so that the masses can see the new ones and buy them. How is this for the "industry?" Did you not just concede the argument? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 15:42:05 GMT -5
The 10 or 25 songs would not chart because they are being pushed out by older songs. People will then be less likely to know those songs are out and will be less likely to buy them. Then the labels (if they care to) would need to spend more more to market them to get people aware that they are out. Getting people aware of Uptown Funk does not require any marketing. Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it than they otherwise would because it gets pushed off the chart by older songs. Spotify playlists,radio playlists and everything else that drives "music consumption" would then be impacted because of exposure on this chart. Gary you just said that the reason why songs go recurrent is so that the masses can see the new ones and buy them. How is this for the "industry?" Did you not just concede the argument? More songs on the market than less. How is that NOT for the industry? Sure, labels can release whatever they want but will people know that? Exposure for new songs that are needed to bring them to the market. Exposure they don't get if 30 3 year old songs are clogging the bottom half of the chart. |
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 15:44:53 GMT -5
Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. |
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on May 9, 2017 15:48:21 GMT -5
I hope that Kendrick mania will help Goosebumps make the year end Hot 100 :) Then we'll know it's a hit.  Then and ONLY then lmao. There's only room for 100 legit hits a year, didn't ya know?  Side note, what happened to that Cheers parody from a few years back? Wouldn't be too out of place now :kii: . |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 15:50:06 GMT -5
Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. Call it whatever you want. Did you know that name before this discussion? You know that name now because you read the chart. If it happened to be a song you were interested in, you might then seek it out. Otherwise you would be less likley to know that this guy even existed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 15:53:39 GMT -5
Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. This is very true. Barely anybody in the masses cares about what song is number 91 on the chart. Videos of the top 10 get hundreds of thousands of views though.... and there's no recurrence to it. BB is just inconsistent. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 15:56:31 GMT -5
I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. Call it whatever you want. Did you know that name before this discussion? You know that name now because you read the chart. If it happened to be a song you were interested in, you might then seek it out. Otherwise you would be less likley to know that this guy even existed. If every single member of this thread bought playboi's song it wouldn't mean shit. If every person on the entire "chart history" forum streamed the song it would also not mean shit. |
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Sambalada
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Post by Sambalada on May 9, 2017 15:58:31 GMT -5
Random song that debuts at #99 requires less marketing now because people who read the flagship chart now knows that it is out and are then more likely to buy it I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. Honey I never heard that name up until now that you're bringing it and that is a perfect example of the industry point. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 15:59:21 GMT -5
I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. This is very true. Barely anybody in the masses cares about what song is number 91 on the chart. Videos of the top 10 get hundreds of thousands of views though.... and there's no recurrence to it. BB is just inconsistent. True, barely anybody in the masses cares what song is #91 in any given week. Most people don't track chart positions that closely.....not the typical music consumer. That being said, barely anybody in the masses also cares about what the year end chart looks like in the middle of May. I bring that up because this board is full of people who having been speculating about the 2017 year end chart since January 1. Not the typical music consumer. The guy at #91, is there because he appeals to enough people to chart at #91. If his audience grows because of that exposure, he could then eventually hit #1. Big name artists were not always big name artists, they had to start somewhere, many started because of exposure on the lower half of the Hot 100, exposure not available if the lower half of the chart is filled up with older songs. |
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 16:00:05 GMT -5
Assuming that mass debuts continue to become more common and more powerful, we could be seeing a Hot 100 where 10 songs from the same artist debut in the Top 50 on a monthly basis. We could eventually see a charting world where this little record here gets broken by some massive album debut. At this point, relatively healthy songs in the 41-50 range of the chart would be even more at the mercy of artists like Drake than they already are. The kind of songs that would otherwise have been able to gracefully coast down the 40-50 range in a month would be cut drastically short. It won't look good for the Hot 100 for a songs performance to be cut down on a whim like that all the time. Also at this point, if mass debuts become something that happens every other week, we won't have to be super worried about the Hot 100 being "stagnant" with three year old songs in the bottom half of the Hot 100. Our turnover rates will continue to grow because of mass debuts. Keeping a song like Uptown Funk around for another year wouldn't dampen the extreme turnover rates that we are likely to see in the future (assuming that something does not stop the growth of streaming). |
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on May 9, 2017 16:11:11 GMT -5
You guys are too limited in your "only chart nerds care" mentality. The industry doesn't necessarily use the Hot 100 to appeal to music fans directly. When Playboi Carti's label is trying to book him on radio or late night TV shows it's much easier to point to his two songs on the Hot 100 to booking agents and say he's "up-and-coming" than to say "some tastemakers on obscure rap blogs are talking about him". Those tastemakers helped get him to #91. #91 gets him on to, say, Seth Myers or Charlemagne Tha God's radio show. That exposure drives audiences to Spotify, which in turn pushes Carti from #91 into the top 60 or 70. That momentum gets him better gigs and onto more Spotify-curated playlists. If the song clicks from this exposure it keeps building, and then he's in the top 20. None of this happens if the song never charts and the label's marketing team can't get past "Uptown Funk", which they stopped promoting 2 years ago. These are the kind of efforts they want to see reflected on the Hot 100, not lingering oldies. Every recurrent rule Billboard puts in place is discussed with industry executives. Maybe this trend of album domination would never have happened and Kendrick wouldn't be a huge star and rap wouldn't be resurgent if "Radioactive" and "Sail" were still on the charts. That's how the music industry changes and evolves.
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 16:13:26 GMT -5
I call BS on this. Playboi Carti just debuted for the first time at #91 and #100 this week. How many people in the world do you think will listen to Playboi Carti for the first time because they saw his song on the Hot 100? I'm going to say, probably... 100 people. Maybe 200. He'll gain maybe 500 extra streams on Spotify from hardcore chart nerds that otherwise would never have listened to his music. How many people do you think will buy Playboi Carti's music this week specifically because they saw that it debuted on the Hot 100? I'm going to go with maybe a dozen people who habitually spend $1.29 on every song that debuts on the Hot 100 every week. Actually, I can't imagine anybody doing that. Because anybody who cares enough about the music industry to want to spend $13 a week on iTunes should also know that it would be way more cost efficient to just use Spotify. But regardless, I'm going to say that a dozen people will buy Playboi Carti songs from iTunes this week specifically because they saw him on the Hot 100. Some huge loss for the record companies if the guy never charted. Meanwhile, the type of people to post on Rap Genius, KTT, /r Hip-Hop heads, etc. have been talking about Playboi Carti for months now. Maybe even a full year. They talk about so many artists who have never charted. Or talk about artists a year before they charted for the first time. The people in charge of marketing have so much more important things to worry about then whether their song is going to be noticed by a handful of chart nerds who ignore everything that doesn't chart. Debuting on the Hot 100 isn't going to give Playboi Carti any significant boost that he wouldn't already have if he was pushed down by songs like Uptown Funk. It's a nice ego boost to think that a song or artist's inclusion onto the Hot 100 is a major benefit for that song on an industry standpoint. It gives purpose to what we do when we scour this chart up and down for hours and hours at a time. But the truth is, it's trivial. The hardcore chart nerds like us who look deep into the Hot 100 are astronomically outnumbered by the actual casual music fans who drive the industry. Call it whatever you want. Did you know that name before this discussion? You know that name now because you read the chart. If it happened to be a song you were interested in, you might then seek it out. Otherwise you would be less likley to know that this guy even existed. Yes. I knew his name because I closely follow Hip-Hop and am on Hip-Hop forums. I would be one of those 100-200 people who listened to Playboi for the very first time this week because I saw that he charted on the Hot 100. But the thing I'm trying to tell you is that's very rare and weird behavior. Most people listen to whoever they feel like. It's a negligibly small number of people: 1. Check all the artists who debut every week 2. Are actually interested enough in Hip-Hop to give him a listen, or add them to one of their playlists 3. AND aren't interested enough in Hip-Hop to already have heard his name mentioned and checked out what his music sounded like.. If there was a huge number of people who will now suddenly start listening to Playboi Carti all because he just debuted on the Hot 100, then he'll easily be able to have a bullet on each of his new songs next week won't he? And the same goes for pretty much every artist who debuts in the lower half of the Hot 100 right? By this logic, they should mostly all get a bullet in their second week with all the huge number of people who check the charts and listen to whoever debuts. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 16:19:18 GMT -5
This is very true. Barely anybody in the masses cares about what song is number 91 on the chart. Videos of the top 10 get hundreds of thousands of views though.... and there's no recurrence to it. BB is just inconsistent. True, barely anybody in the masses cares what song is #91 in any given week. Most people don't track chart positions that closely.....not the typical music consumer. That being said, barely anybody in the masses also cares about what the year end chart looks like in the middle of May. I bring that up because this board is full of people who having been speculating about the 2017 year end chart since January 1. Not the typical music consumer. The guy at #91, is there because he appeals to enough people to chart at #91. If his audience grows because of that exposure, he could then eventually hit #1. Big name artists were not always big name artists, they had to start somewhere, many started because of exposure on the lower half of the Hot 100, exposure not available if the lower half of the chart is filled up with older songs. We speculate because when the chart is released, the top 10 or so is very significant. Millions of people have viewed the year-end chart. That is VERY different than the few thousand (I'm being very generous) who listened to Magnolia's music because of it being at #91. Uptown Funk occupying that position would not hurt anybody. |
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 16:20:57 GMT -5
You guys are too limited in your "only chart nerds care" mentality. The industry doesn't necessarily use the Hot 100 to appeal to music fans directly. When Playboi Carti's label is trying to book him on radio or late night TV shows it's much easier to point to his two songs on the Hot 100 to booking agents and say he's "up-and-coming" than to say "some tastemakers on obscure rap blogs are talking about him". Those tastemakers helped get him to #91. #91 gets him on to, say, Seth Myers or Charlemagne Tha God's radio show. That exposure drives audiences to Spotify, which in turn pushes Carti from #91 into the top 60 or 70. That momentum gets him better gigs and onto more Spotify-curated playlists. If the song clicks from this exposure it keeps building, and then he's in the top 20. None of this happens if the song never charts and the label's marketing team can't get past "Uptown Funk", which they stopped promoting 2 years ago. These are the kind of efforts they want to see reflected on the Hot 100, not lingering oldies. Every recurrent rule Billboard puts in place is discussed with industry executives. Maybe this trend of album domination would never have happened and Kendrick wouldn't be a huge star and rap wouldn't be resurgent if "Radioactive" and "Sail" were still on the charts. That's how the music industry changes and evolves. Alright. This makes sense. You make a good point here. I'd still personally rather the charts be "literally accurate". Even if it means pushing off the bottom 10 or bottom 25 positions. Sorry Carti, that's just how I feel. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 16:24:47 GMT -5
Call it whatever you want. Did you know that name before this discussion? You know that name now because you read the chart. If it happened to be a song you were interested in, you might then seek it out. Otherwise you would be less likley to know that this guy even existed. Yes. I knew his name because I closely follow Hip-Hop and am on Hip-Hop forums. I would be one of those 100-200 people who listened to Playboi for the very first time this week because I saw that he charted on the Hot 100. But the thing I'm trying to tell you is that's very rare and weird behavior. Most people listen to whoever they feel like. It's a negligibly small number of people: 1. Check all the artists who debut every week 2. Are actually interested enough in Hip-Hop to give him a listen, or add them to one of their playlists 3. AND aren't interested enough in Hip-Hop to already have heard his name mentioned and checked out what his music sounded like.. If there was a huge number of people who will now suddenly start listening to Playboi Carti all because he just debuted on the Hot 100, then he'll easily be able to have a bullet on each of his new songs next week won't he? And the same goes for pretty much every artist who debuts in the lower half of the Hot 100 right? By this logic, they should mostly all get a bullet in their second week with all the huge number of people who check the charts and listen to whoever debuts. I congratulate you on knowing the name then. However, I am sure there is someone that debuted at #91 before that you had not heard of before you read the chart? Playboi Carti might never reach the upper half of the chart or he may be the next Drake, you never know but it starts here. I guarantee you there are lots of artists out there that are big names now and well known to you now that may not have always been well known to you. How do they get known? They have to start somewhere. Not everyone starts at #1. The Hot 100 influences playlists on streaming services and radio, not always 1-1 but it does have an influence. Bruno Mars was once just as unknown as Playboi Carti....everyone has to start somewhere. The industry uses this as a tool to build exposure. You don't have to like it. If you want to see how recurrent songs are doing, there is a chart for that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 16:29:28 GMT -5
Yes. I knew his name because I closely follow Hip-Hop and am on Hip-Hop forums. I would be one of those 100-200 people who listened to Playboi for the very first time this week because I saw that he charted on the Hot 100. But the thing I'm trying to tell you is that's very rare and weird behavior. Most people listen to whoever they feel like. It's a negligibly small number of people: 1. Check all the artists who debut every week 2. Are actually interested enough in Hip-Hop to give him a listen, or add them to one of their playlists 3. AND aren't interested enough in Hip-Hop to already have heard his name mentioned and checked out what his music sounded like.. If there was a huge number of people who will now suddenly start listening to Playboi Carti all because he just debuted on the Hot 100, then he'll easily be able to have a bullet on each of his new songs next week won't he? And the same goes for pretty much every artist who debuts in the lower half of the Hot 100 right? By this logic, they should mostly all get a bullet in their second week with all the huge number of people who check the charts and listen to whoever debuts. I congratulate you on knowing the name then. However, I am sure there is someone that debuted at #91 before that you had not heard of before you read the chart? Playboi Carti might never reach the upper half of the chart or he may be the next Drake, you never know but it starts here. I guarantee you there are lots of artists out there that are big names now and well known to you now that may not have always been well known to you. How do they get known? They have to start somewhere. Not everyone starts at #1. The Hot 100 influences playlists on streaming services and radio, not always 1-1 but it does have an influence. Bruno Mars was once just as unknown as Playboi Carti....everyone has to start somewhere. The industry uses this as a tool to build exposure. You don't have to like it. If you want to see how recurrent songs are doing, there is a chart for that. If the purpose of the H100 is exposure, then why is radio even factored into their calculations? |
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Post by kcdawg13 on May 9, 2017 16:55:25 GMT -5
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm not gonna enter this one, goodnight folks!
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on May 9, 2017 16:56:29 GMT -5
Yes. I knew his name because I closely follow Hip-Hop and am on Hip-Hop forums. I would be one of those 100-200 people who listened to Playboi for the very first time this week because I saw that he charted on the Hot 100. But the thing I'm trying to tell you is that's very rare and weird behavior. Most people listen to whoever they feel like. It's a negligibly small number of people: 1. Check all the artists who debut every week 2. Are actually interested enough in Hip-Hop to give him a listen, or add them to one of their playlists 3. AND aren't interested enough in Hip-Hop to already have heard his name mentioned and checked out what his music sounded like.. If there was a huge number of people who will now suddenly start listening to Playboi Carti all because he just debuted on the Hot 100, then he'll easily be able to have a bullet on each of his new songs next week won't he? And the same goes for pretty much every artist who debuts in the lower half of the Hot 100 right? By this logic, they should mostly all get a bullet in their second week with all the huge number of people who check the charts and listen to whoever debuts. I congratulate you on knowing the name then. However, I am sure there is someone that debuted at #91 before that you had not heard of before you read the chart? Playboi Carti might never reach the upper half of the chart or he may be the next Drake, you never know but it starts here. I guarantee you there are lots of artists out there that are big names now and well known to you now that may not have always been well known to you. How do they get known? They have to start somewhere. Not everyone starts at #1. The Hot 100 influences playlists on streaming services and radio, not always 1-1 but it does have an influence. Bruno Mars was once just as unknown as Playboi Carti....everyone has to start somewhere. The industry uses this as a tool to build exposure. You don't have to like it. If you want to see how recurrent songs are doing, there is a chart for that. I think it can help some with exposure. But remember back in the 1990's when certain big popular songs never charted because they weren't released as physical singles? Ask yourself this: If for some weird reason like that, Drake's "Best I Ever Had" never charted on the Hot 100 at all. If it did just as well on the radio, if it sold just as well on iTunes, but it was eligible to chart on the Hot 100, would Drake's career have still taken off? I think it definitely would have. The Hot 100 is there to reflect popularity, not to create it. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 9, 2017 17:11:09 GMT -5
I congratulate you on knowing the name then. However, I am sure there is someone that debuted at #91 before that you had not heard of before you read the chart? Playboi Carti might never reach the upper half of the chart or he may be the next Drake, you never know but it starts here. I guarantee you there are lots of artists out there that are big names now and well known to you now that may not have always been well known to you. How do they get known? They have to start somewhere. Not everyone starts at #1. The Hot 100 influences playlists on streaming services and radio, not always 1-1 but it does have an influence. Bruno Mars was once just as unknown as Playboi Carti....everyone has to start somewhere. The industry uses this as a tool to build exposure. You don't have to like it. If you want to see how recurrent songs are doing, there is a chart for that. I think it can help some with exposure. But remember back in the 1990's when certain big popular songs never charted because they weren't released as physical singles? Ask yourself this: If for some weird reason like that, Drake's "Best I Ever Had" never charted on the Hot 100 at all. If it did just as well on the radio, if it sold just as well on iTunes, but it was eligible to chart on the Hot 100, would Drake's career have still taken off? I think it definitely would have. The Hot 100 is there to reflect popularity, not to create it. The Hot 100 does not create popularity, granted. It can help build it though. Have you ever logged onto iTunes to see a song chart really high and you wondered what that was, so you listened to it to see what all the fuss was about? then people buy it and all of a sudden the song becomes an actual hit? Chart placement can help push a song higher just by being listed on a chart people read. Also, I never said that the Hot 100's purpose was exposure. It is ONE purpose. It is also not the only means of exposure. The recurrent rules exist to help drive exposure for newer songs. As a fan, you don't like it. I don't like it either. However, this is not a fan chart. It never has been. This discussion could go on ten more pages and it won't change anything. Based on my understanding of the charts, this is the way it is...simple as that. The recurrent rules exist primarily to give more exposure to newer songs. In the end, I am with you. I too would like to see a chart of the true 100 most popular songs, but it will never happen, until the focus of the magazine shifts towards being a fan cart rather than an industry chart |
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on May 9, 2017 18:58:37 GMT -5
Everything above said, it WOULD be cool to see a "Comprehensive Hot 100" like the Comprehensive Album Chart that existed before recurrent rules were removed from the BB200. Let everything chart for as long as it's in the Top 100, and allow older songs like "Don't Stop Believin'" to appear below #50.
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85la
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Post by 85la on May 9, 2017 22:41:56 GMT -5
Yay @ Believer reaching top 20! Hopefully pop radio will be more interested in it now. I'm just glad I Bet My Life flopped as that was one of the worst songs of 2015 but now that they're back with a far better lead single it's doing well. Sorry, I know this post was like 4 pages back, but I totally disagree! I Bet My Life was the jam!! Both songs are good actually. |
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on May 9, 2017 22:54:15 GMT -5
Take out the word "Hot" and i get the argument.
But I want to see a chart that reflects what's new and exciting, not a chart that tells me songs that peaked months ago are still relatively popular.
I agree with having 2 charts. straight up points, no recurrent rules, and then a chart with aggressive recurrent rules -- perhaps make it based on X weeks without a bullet instead of a sum total.
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85la
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Post by 85la on May 9, 2017 23:18:01 GMT -5
Basically the Hot 100 is a list of the most popular songs in the country AS LONG as they are not too old. There would be some satisfaction from seeing the list if there were no recurrent rules because it would be more straight-up and accurate, but I'd probably just prefer the way it is now for the newness of it and the shake-upness factor. With the other way, it would look very much like the Adult Contemporary chart - glacially paced, looking much the same from week to week, and VERY boring, nothing much to write about in the chart beat columns, etc., and not likely to retain and gain interested readership.
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on May 9, 2017 23:44:20 GMT -5
I don't know anyone in my life who follows or reads the charts except you all here. The only time my friends know is if I tell them what number a song is at. And they usually laugh cuz they think it's funny I study the chart. No way a song just appearing on the Hot 100 affects much of the songs chart life.
Just appearing in the top 100-150 of iTunes or Spotify, yes I'd say that has an impact.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on May 10, 2017 6:34:21 GMT -5
I don't know anyone in my life who follows or reads the charts except you all here. The only time my friends know is if I tell them what number a song is at. And they usually laugh cuz they think it's funny I study the chart. No way a song just appearing on the Hot 100 affects much of the songs chart life. Just appearing in the top 100-150 of iTunes or Spotify, yes I'd say that has an impact. As iTunes, Spotify and the hot 100 are not independent, by agreeing that placement in the first two impact chart life you are also agreeing with the third one. |
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on May 10, 2017 8:57:29 GMT -5
I don't know anyone in my life who follows or reads the charts except you all here. The only time my friends know is if I tell them what number a song is at. And they usually laugh cuz they think it's funny I study the chart. No way a song just appearing on the Hot 100 affects much of the songs chart life. Just appearing in the top 100-150 of iTunes or Spotify, yes I'd say that has an impact. It gets people in the industry and radio more interested though and they are the ones who are going to play the artist to get them more exposure to get the public to listen and buy it. If I was an agent of a new artist I would like to write "book my new artist and they will sing their new Hot 100 hit". |
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on May 10, 2017 9:05:25 GMT -5
I don't know anyone in my life who follows or reads the charts except you all here. The only time my friends know is if I tell them what number a song is at. And they usually laugh cuz they think it's funny I study the chart. No way a song just appearing on the Hot 100 affects much of the songs chart life. Just appearing in the top 100-150 of iTunes or Spotify, yes I'd say that has an impact. It gets people in the industry and radio more interested though and they are the ones who are going to play the artist to get them more exposure to get the public to listen and buy it. If I was an agent of a new artist I would like to write "book my new artist and they will sing their new Hot 100 hit". That's a good point. I agree with that statement used as a marketing tool |
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