Taylor Swift - "Look What You Made Me Do"

[dbhmr]

Aug 31, 2017 11:46:36 GMT -5 Codex said:

Aug 31, 2017 10:36:10 GMT -5 theflying said:

Yeah, the lyrics you pointed out are about the criticisms leveled at her before she Shakes It Off. It's a powerful pop star taking herself down a few notches to be relateable and to add specificity to the universal chorus. You can't tell everyone to Shake off peoples criticisms of you without providing the ones thrown at you.

I literally don't understand what you're arguing. What are you saying about Shake It Off? That it was risky? That it wasn't an easy hit? That it wasn't geared toward a universal audience?

You didn't understand what I said. I clarified. I don't understand your obstinance.

It was meant to be polarizing. Style is a great song, but boring, that's why it was released as a third single. Shake It Off had a provocative video, and provocative lyrics. It was loud and in your face. She needed that to show everyone that she's pop now, while addressing the criticism of her personal life, which was too much by that point. I don't think she took herself down a few notches at all, she literally says that none of the negative things you say about me are true, bai haterrzzzz

Now that everyone knows she's pop, she has to go up another notch to keep the shock factor up. The video is spliced together from every single pop girl video cliche, no risks there. I don't know if this song counts as risky. It doesn't really do anything, it's just a drum beat sampled from Mean Girls with a couple sound effects from The E.N.D. thrown in and a Meghan Trainor/Right Said Fred sample.

I think the reality is probably somewhere in between your cynicism and theflying's worship.

[leonagwen]

Lol to the forum members that think that Taylor is gonna fail with her future singles.Right now she is breaking records and is arguably the #1 popstar on the planet.

[theflying]

Believe me, I am just as, if not more, cynical than everybody here.

I also am not a Taylor Swift stan. Fan? Sure. But I only came on board during Red, and don't own/care for her country stuff.

- Of course Shake It Off addressed the critics in her personal life. Good songwriting accomplishes a lot of things at the same time. See example: Shake It Off.

You can simultaneously address criticism in your personal life while also being self effacing by owning the criticisms at you to make yourself more relateable by Shaking It Off. This is not Machiavellian, it's just smart songwriting. A well written pop song manages to dance the tight rope of being specific and personal and yet be many things to many people.

Codex, you STILL haven't provided what your argument is. You keep saying Shake It Off wasn't meant as a kind of universal positive bop that everyone from all ages could connect to. Than what is it?

- Spree, Taylor Swift is a crazy successful business. There are people whose entire job it is to plan the strategy and PR for the album launch.

The notion that you think this stuff ISN'T plotted out is extremely bizarre. Is there literally ANYTHING about the launch so far that doesn't indicate meticulous planning? She's been doing this successfully for over a decade. I'm not suggesting anything crazy. She released a polarizing song to make a statement. She scrubbed her social media accounts to let the music speak for itself. Everything was under lock and key.

After reeeading your post, you seem to think I'm arguing that Taylor is operating independently of her team. What? Of course not. When I talk about Taylor Swift launching her project, of course that includes directives from her label.


This whole subset of argument seems to be about the notion I brought up that, unlike conventional Pulse thinking, not every artist releases their biggest sounding #1 hit because they are hoping and praying to appeal to the fickle Pop public and radio.

There are other things at work when a project launches: image, sound, message, PR, all that jazz.

My point was simply that LWYMMD is aiming to accomplish something different than Shake It Off.

If your only metric of a hit is a beloved song that spends 10 weeks at #1, then you're going to have trouble grasping this argument.

[4 AM]

Aug 31, 2017 12:01:49 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Lol to the forum members that think that Taylor is gonna fail with her future singles.Right now she is breaking records and is arguably the #1 popstar on the planet.

Reputation's era is going to be bigger than The Fame Monster and 25 combined. This is her Thriller. Critics will just have to accept that she's the biggest pop-star to exist since Michael Jackson. And indisputably, Taylor is the most popular and powerful woman not only in pop, or music, but the planet Earth itself.

[DJ General]

Wow made it to top 10 on day 6. Amazing

[DJ General]

What are the top 10 records ?? For quickest days

[SPRΞΞ]

Aug 31, 2017 12:30:10 GMT -5 4 AM said:

Aug 31, 2017 12:01:49 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Lol to the forum members that think that Taylor is gonna fail with her future singles.Right now she is breaking records and is arguably the #1 popstar on the planet.

Reputation's era is going to be bigger than The Fame Monster and 25 combined. This is her Thriller. Critics will just have to accept that she's the biggest pop-star to exist since Michael Jackson. And indisputably, Taylor is the most popular and powerful woman not only in pop, or music, but the planet Earth itself.

Was I this bad when Teenage Dream came out?

[kmbgs]

Aug 31, 2017 12:40:23 GMT -5 Codex said:

Aug 31, 2017 12:30:10 GMT -5 4 AM said:

Reputation's era is going to be bigger than The Fame Monster and 25 combined. This is her Thriller. Critics will just have to accept that she's the biggest pop-star to exist since Michael Jackson. And indisputably, Taylor is the most popular and powerful woman not only in pop, or music, but the planet Earth itself.

The Fame Monster and 25 combined have sold more than her entire discography to date.

I wanna see the receipts

[theflying]

Aug 31, 2017 12:34:51 GMT -5 Codex said:

Aug 31, 2017 12:09:06 GMT -5 theflying said:

Believe me, I am just as, if not more, cynical than everybody here.

I also am not a Taylor Swift stan. Fan? Sure. But I only came on board during Red, and don't own/care for her country stuff.

- Of course Shake It Off addressed the critics in her personal life. Good songwriting accomplishes a lot of things at the same time. See example: Shake It Off.

You can simultaneously address criticism in your personal life while also being self effacing by owning the criticisms at you to make yourself more relateable by Shaking It Off. This is not Machiavellian, it's just smart songwriting. A well written pop song manages to dance the tight rope of being specific and personal and yet be many things to many people.

Codex, you STILL haven't provided what your argument is. You keep saying Shake It Off wasn't meant as a kind of universal positive bop that everyone from all ages could connect to. Than what is it?

- I agree with you that it's a good pop song, and that it was meant to start her pop career.
- I said that it's not a universal positive bop, because I don't think it's JUST that. It's possible that I misinterpreted, but from your comment I felt that you were saying that Shake It Off is a full generic pop smash, and for this album they released a different type of song, because she doesn't need generic pop smashes anymore. I disagree with this, because I think the tactic between the two lead singles is similar. To me, both of them aim to balance on the line between attention seeking, pop friendly, and to try to make her seem down to earth after a ruined reputation. The pop climate has changed, and now minimalistic production and whisper-talk-singing is more on trend.

Even taking Red into consideration, her last 3 eras were polarizing, "annoying" lead singles to start up the hype train and get people talking, followed by a much safer second single. With Speak Now, the lead single was too tame, which lead to an "underperformance" in terms of singles, following the Love Story/YBWM era. I'm assuming that caused her to change her tactic a bit.

I agree with what you're saying here for the most part.

And LWYMMD certainly fits in with the other two lead singles in terms of addressing controversy and has a particularly polarizing/annoying spoken first.

And both SIO and LWYMMD needed to headline a project, so sure, you're always going to look for a "kind" of song to do that.

But ultimately, my confusion over this line of argument is more because I feel like it's a point that barely needs to be pointed out because it's something we all can tell: Shake It Off is fundamentally a aiming for something different than LWYMMD. You send a different kind of message with those two songs. And you can align the place in Taylor's career with what she could be hoping to accomplish with those respective songs.

The reason I brought up Style is that when a lead single debuts, we often lose sight of what other "kinds" of songs an artist may be choosing from. We just kind of go "This must sound like the biggest hit." But I will have to disagree with you on your opinion of Style: that absolutely could have been a lead single, IMO. Or Blank Space.

But instead, they went with Shake It Off. Why? Because it has a ton of elements that are SUPER easy for everyone to like, even if it has that "annoying" part. I genuinely don't feel like this needs to be analyzed. Of course it does, let's not overthink that. It's a super catchy, positive earwarm that a core demographic of Pop, her fanbase, and of radio can eat up: Young girls, Teen girls and soccer moms.

Shake It Off, to me, feels like a layup for Taylor Swift. It's well written but not "hard". It's not "complicated". While I obviously can't know for sure, lots of her other songs feel like trickier writes than Shake It Off, even on 1989.

So to me, I think it's fun to talk about what kind of message TS is saying by making this the lead single.

And I think an added component of why that's fun is because, due to her sensational songwriting skills, had she felt like she needed a song like Shake It Off to headline the project, she would've written it, if it isn't on the album already. We don't know.

[Harx]

They said this was one of the most expensive videos ever made, right? Did they reveal what was the budget?

[KeepDeanWeird]

Aug 31, 2017 12:52:35 GMT -5 Codex said:

Aug 31, 2017 12:44:29 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Was I this bad when Teenage Dream came out?

Probably, but there were only like 3 of us, so it wasn't as overwhelming when we spammed the Hot100 thread with MJ gifs when Last Friday Night went number 1.

Gaga fans were definitely the worst though, during Born This Way.

The Ga didn't help her cause when she declared BTW as "album of the decade." Her hubris at that time was just begging for a fall - even though it continued until ARTFLOP. I truly admire the way she regrouped and has rebuilt her 'reputation' in an incredibly positive and substantive way. I don't expect Taylor to fall into that trap - the fans. Well, that could be another story.

On the building chart, which I think is the best way to really gauge trends (no 8 day effect), LWYMMD is #9 with 4,978 spins. She's probably close week at #7.

[Love Plastic Love]

I am loling that anyone would call Shake It Off a polarizing, provocative single. Like, sure, a few lines of the lyrics are fairly specific to her, but literally every sorority girl and soccer mom I knew was running around singing this song about their "haters" and screaming about how Taylor totally gets them. Like, the general public isn't analyzing lyrics like we do for the most part and the general public def heard that song as a breezy, poppy, inspirational song about shaking off the haters and doing your own thing anyway, NOT a provocative attack by Taylor on media about her career.

[tinawina]

Aug 31, 2017 13:03:34 GMT -5 theflying said:

And I think an added component of why that's fun is because, due to her sensational songwriting skills, had she felt like she needed a song like Shake It Off to headline the project, she would've written it, if it isn't on the album already. We don't know.

Honestly it's easier for me to believe they just thought this song was more universally appealing than it is, than for me to believe that the label planned for Taylor or release a polarizing song. This is a girl who carefully manages her image and doggedly stays away from being in any way controversial. She's not Rihanna. She loves her mass appeal factor and works hard to alienate no one.

Now of course she intentionally capitalized on the negative publicity to grab the narrative and pull it back in a direction she wanted. Of course. But trying to do it in a way that's not radio-candy? Taylor Swift, queen of the hook? No.

It wasn't intentional for Katy or Gaga, both of whom knew their way around a hook... until they didn't. Labels have convinced themselves that songs were gonna be HUGE before that turned out not to be. We'll see if the same mistake was made here.

They have coordinated the mother of all launches and it has gone really well so far. I agree if the song turns out not to have legs it won't hurt her in the long run as long as there are catchier singles on the album to follow up with (again, see Katy and Gaga). But Swifty releasing a song lots of people would hate knowingly? Nope.

[theflying]

There isn't a kind of song Taylor could release without people wanting to hate it, particularly not right now.

I didn't say LWYMMD wasn't meant to be radio candy. I'm saying LWYMMD is aiming for something different than shake It Off, and the thing isn't aiming for may not be some 7 week #1. If that happens? Of course they want it.

But they know this is a polarizing release by a polarizing artist that at the very least the public will need to get used to.

[Deleted]

So close to 100 mill. Crazy. And top 10 on pop radio. Wow.

[Marv]

Does anyone know how many stations are on BBs top 40 reporting panel?

Thanks.

[tinawina]

Aug 31, 2017 14:21:35 GMT -5 theflying said:

There isn't a kind of song Taylor could release without people wanting to hate it, particularly not right now.

I didn't say LWYMMD wasn't meant to be radio candy. I'm saying LWYMMD is aiming for something different than shake It Off, and the thing isn't aiming for may not be some 7 week #1. If that happens? Of course they want it.

But they know this is a polarizing release by a polarizing artist that at the very least the public will need to get used to.

Well, no one can really predict a 7 week number 1, but I do believe the label intended for this to be a hit with legs. I don't believe they planned for it to burn hot and fast, if that is what indeed happens.

Yes, any huge pop star has a ton of haters who will downtalk any move they make. But outside those people, you want to rest of the world to like the song. I would imagine they'd want to reintroduce her to the public and take control of her image as you say, but ALSO achieve a hit that reminds people of her strengths (relateable lyrics, catchy melodies, singable hooks, all-american type beauty, etc).

The idea that the label would say "we just want a hard image reset and if the song crashes after that we don't care" seems unlikely IMO. Strong pop songwriting is part of her brand, they are not going to intentionally damage that.

[dbhmr]

Aug 31, 2017 14:21:35 GMT -5 theflying said:

There isn't a kind of song Taylor could release without people wanting to hate it, particularly not right now.

I didn't say LWYMMD wasn't meant to be radio candy. I'm saying LWYMMD is aiming for something different than shake It Off, and the thing isn't aiming for may not be some 7 week #1. If that happens? Of course they want it.

But they know this is a polarizing release by a polarizing artist that at the very least the public will need to get used to.

Agreed, but doesn't that undermine your point about them crafting this perfect polarizing song, if anything she was going to release was going to get a love/hate reaction? I do think they were deliberate in their choices for this single, of course, but I feel like a lot of people are reading a bit too much into this*, when it might just be more simple than that: this is the lead single off Taylor's second purely pop album, with a purposefully (but just slightly) darker twist--a trajectory that you find in nearly every female pop star's career.

Can't quite follow your second statement but I think what you're saying is LWYMMD was designed for a different purpose than SIO, and with the gap between the launch of the first single and the album, it's likely they have a "safer" second single waiting in case this rises and falls too quickly (while giving the song itself enough time to connect as it is, above anything else you can say about it, catchy and radio-friendly). In which case, I agree.


*Which is, since this is Taylor, definitely by design. She's trained people to search for the hidden meaning/people behind her songs for years, so she doesn't really even need to do anything anymore except drop a song and watch people go to work on her behalf. This has only become more intense, which is interesting because her songwriting has, on the whole (at least as far as singles are concerned) become far less specific.

[theflying]

Well, look, a lot of what I'm saying is ultimately me surmising -- it's not like it's on the record or that we'll ever know what the strategy is.

But sometimes, you have to look at the directional choices and make some conclusions.

What I like about this line of argument is that I believe two things:

- Shake It Off was about as safe a pop smash as anyone making a huge career swerve could have released. And I want to point something else out, however: The Shake It Off release was confident. When I say safe, I don't mean it was a cowardly choice. Cowardly would have been "We need to sell sex right now, let's abandon everything that made Taylor popular," and releasing some female Jason deRulo crap. First off, Taylor wouldn't have generic Jason deRulo crap even on her album, and second, they could have released Style, but they didn't. Style is a fantastic song that's about an ex, and is SEXY. But they didn't go that route.

No; Shake It Off has strong lyrics, a strong melody, with a great hook. And so does LWYMMD. That's what Taylor Swift is known for, and she continues that.

- I also think that if Taylor or her team's instincts were "Everyone hates me right now, I need a song that everyone will feel universally positive about to make everyone like me" -- then she could have just written Shake It Off 2.0.

That's why it's interesting to talk about. She could have released something far more universally positive, or anthemic. Instead, she went nightmarish with the sexy/confident/bizarre strut of Right Said Fred.

That's a deliberate directional choice, and in this climate, you can't imagine her team seeing the polarizing climate, and concluding that THIS was the safest thing they could do. This is FAR from the safest thing to release -- that doesn't mean it's not a great song made for pop radio.

Which I think means they essentially are okay with not everyone loving this, and that it's not part of their strategy.

[tinawina]

Aug 31, 2017 14:55:10 GMT -5 theflying said:

Well, look, a lot of what I'm saying is ultimately me surmising -- it's not like it's on the record or that we'll ever know what the strategy is.

But sometimes, you have to look at the directional choices and make some conclusions.

What I like about this line of argument is that I believe two things:

- Shake It Off was about as safe a pop smash as anyone making a huge career swerve could have released. And I want to point something else out, however: The Shake It Off release was confident. When I say safe, I don't mean it was a cowardly choice. Cowardly would have been "We need to sell sex right now, let's abandon everything that made Taylor popular," and releasing some female Jason deRulo crap. First off, Taylor wouldn't have generic Jason deRulo crap even on her album, and second, they could have released Style, but they didn't. Style is a fantastic song that's about an ex, and is SEXY. But they didn't go that route.

No; Shake It Off has strong lyrics, a strong melody, with a great hook. And so does LWYMMD. That's what Taylor Swift is known for, and she continues that.

- I also think that if Taylor or her team's instincts were "Everyone hates me right now, I need a song that everyone will feel universally positive about to make everyone like me" -- then she could have just written Shake It Off 2.0.

That's why it's interesting to talk about. She could have released something far more universally positive, or anthemic. Instead, she went nightmarish with the sexy/confident/bizarre strut of Right Said Fred.

That's a deliberate directional choice, and in this climate, you can't imagine her team seeing the polarizing climate, and concluding that THIS was the safest thing they could do. This is FAR from the safest thing to release -- that doesn't mean it's not a great song made for pop radio.

Which I think means they essentially are okay with not everyone loving this, and that it's not part of their strategy.

Oh, Okay! I get more of where you are coming from now. I think where we differ is on 2 points. First the bolded part about the hook: I really like Taylor Swift, but I do not in any way believe this song has a strong hook. I think the song is doing well in spite of that non-hook, mainly because of the sensational nature of the subject material, a really fantastic video and a very strong positive history with radio that's paying off. As a song, I think it may rank near the bottom of all her singles for me.

Number two: I don't think, other than the darker tone, this is a huge departure for her far as lead singles go. This is now the third album where she had a "telling you off" type lead song... first We Are Never Getting Back Together, then Shake it Off, and now this. Coming back by addressing whatever/whomever is irritating her at the moment is kinda her thing.

To me what makes the song polarizing is not the tone (which is fine, it's just a new take on the old formula), it's the fact that it's not that strong of a song IMO, as far as hooky sing-a-long pop songs go. So many people just simply didn't like it until the video came out and even now, there's too much chatter about how bad it is. Of course lots of songs get that chatter and still go on to be big hits (Rihanna's Work, anyone? LOL) So we'll see what happens. It may all turn out just fine.

[theflying]

I'm curious if she wrote this to-track or not.

The right said Fred chorus is SO deliberate and unexpected that I wonder what inspired it. I like it more as an intellectual choice than thinking it works terrifically in accomplishing a great song chorus, heh.

[Kinney]

Just passed 100 million views, took 92 hours. Second fastest to reach that mark after Psy.

[pnobelysk]

Aug 31, 2017 12:49:53 GMT -5 Codex said:

Aug 31, 2017 12:40:29 GMT -5 DJ General said:

What are the top 10 records ?? For quickest days

I'm not sure if it's the record, but Born This Way did it in five days. She was top 5 by the end of the seventh day:

-- 31 LADY GAGA Born This Way 1838 0 1838 16.730
-- 20 LADY GAGA Born This Way 3665 0 3665 31.218
-- 16 LADY GAGA Born This Way 5190 0 5190 43.500
-- 11 LADY GAGA Born This Way 6179 0 6179 50.693
-- 9 LADY GAGA Born This Way 7189 0 7189 57.465
-- 7 LADY GAGA Born This Way 8336 0 8336 64.969
-- 5 LADY GAGA Born This Way 9520 0 9520 74.960

Currently that would be equal to around 14,000 spins, because of the extra stations added since then to the panel.

I don't think Billboard tracked days, but Erotica by Madonna debuted at number 2, which is the highest debut to my knowledge on Overall Airplay.

Aug 31, 2017 12:45:30 GMT -5 kmbgs said:

I wanna see the receipts

The Fame Monster - 15 million
25 - 20 million
21 - 35 million

Taylor Swift - 5.5 million
Fearless - 10 million
Speak Now - 5 million
Red - 6 million
1989 - 10 million

I thought 25 was at 25 million sales. Sales figure above are approximate, but the point still stands.

Reception is going to sell well, between 6-12 million, but there's maybe a 3% chance that it reaches TFM's sales, let alone 25's sales.

Don't forget an additional 1.5 million for her Christmas album + Ep :)

[Deleted]

The video has 87% likes, which isn't very high. On the other hand, still getting lots of views

[rickroller]

^ I remember Shake It Off had 86 like percents or about after a week it came out. Now it has more than 89%.

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2017 14:55:10 GMT -5 theflying said:

Well, look, a lot of what I'm saying is ultimately me surmising -- it's not like it's on the record or that we'll ever know what the strategy is.

Then why have you gone three pages now with your dick out?

[SPRΞΞ]

Aug 31, 2017 15:54:02 GMT -5 Kinney said:

Just passed 100 million views, took 92 hours. Second fastest to reach that mark after Psy.

Flop

[Josh Spicer]

Aug 31, 2017 16:41:16 GMT -5 @touch said:

Aug 31, 2017 14:55:10 GMT -5 theflying said:

Well, look, a lot of what I'm saying is ultimately me surmising -- it's not like it's on the record or that we'll ever know what the strategy is.

Then why have you gone three pages now with your dick out?

Maybe they're quite confident in it.

Aug 31, 2017 16:51:54 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Aug 31, 2017 15:54:02 GMT -5 Kinney said:

Just passed 100 million views, took 92 hours. Second fastest to reach that mark after Psy.

Flop

Considering Gentlemen was, there is a precedent there.

[#LisaRinna]

I watched the video a little better and there are at least 6 or more references to other Pop stars I could gather including:

Beyoncé (Formation/Hold Up)
Gaga (Born This Way)
Madonna (Hard Candy artwork/Erotica)
P!nk (the swing)
Sia (Elastic Heart)
Katy Perry (tiger sweater)
Shania Twain (leopard print coat)
Cher (leather outfit)

I haven't read much press about this, but can anyone confirm any of these with sources?

And then of course there's Kim Kardashian with the bathtub scene perfectly timed with the lyrics "perfect crime" which reference/mock the robbery and how Kim was accused of making that up for a sob story.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

I am so excited to see the visuals of this era. She is quickly becoming THE artist to watch (in terms of top-notch music videos). ❤