stunnedout
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Post by stunnedout on Sept 4, 2017 4:54:12 GMT -5
They are absolutely not forgotten about, especially not in the Black/Urban community. Everyone knows their singles. They're classics. I think the point was they aren't at the top of mind when people think of r&b male groups. Probably because their biggest hits were very adult contemporary.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jun 5, 2018 12:54:52 GMT -5
Their debut went 9x platinum in the U.S. “End of the Road” from that general era was a huge 13 week #1. The follow-up II produced 2 more #1s (one being another record breaker) and went 12x platinum in the U.S. They then had the huge 16 week #1 “One Sweet Day” with Mariah in 1995/1996. Then in 1997 they had a #1 lead single with “4 Seasons of Loneliness.” The album also contained the top 10 “A Song for Mama.” Ultimately though Evolution only went 2x platinum.
What was the reason for such a huge drop in sales?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 13:14:52 GMT -5
I think there’s been a lengthy thread on this before.
Music tides changed away from adult contemporary ballads by the turn of the Millennium, and their album quality went downhill after the first two (their 2000 album which ended them was abysmal in my opinion).
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jun 5, 2018 13:26:18 GMT -5
I think there’s been a lengthy thread on this before. Music tides changed away from adult contemporary ballads by the turn of the Millennium, and their album quality went downhill after the first two (their 2000 album which ended them was abysmal in my opinion). That I get, and they had internal issues or whatever by then, too. But in 1997 you still had acts like Celine Dion and Leann Rimes selling well, but the drop in album sales BIIM suffered was 10 million. That’s huge!
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Jun 5, 2018 13:36:28 GMT -5
I am looking at their discography on Spotify and they had entire albums recorded in Spanish. That's pretty awesome.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 13:50:33 GMT -5
pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/169997/boyz-mens-fade-pop-cultureI believe that is the thread Jazzy is remembering. Briefly: BIIM had serious label issues around the time of Evolution - in fact they almost left Motown for distribution through Epic, b/c Motown had released a remix album against the group's wishes. They ultimately released with Motown, but the promotion likely was affected by the tension. While all that was going on, the group had to postpone their tour because Wanya developed polyps on his vocal cords. When they did get on the road, Michael's scoliosis kept him from performing dance routines. To top it all off, music trends in 1997 had changed abruptly, with all of BIIM's core formats going in totally different directions (urban, pop, HAC, and AC; UAC didn't exist during their prime) and turning Evolution into a rather ironic album title. Their fall was just an unfortunate storm of events all occurring at the same time.
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mkarns
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Post by mkarns on Jun 5, 2018 13:54:48 GMT -5
Perhaps overexposure earlier (1991-96) may have hurt. In a sense that's not fair, as they were/are excellent singers, but they couldn't sustain that level of success indefinitely. And the fact that their hit songs became increasingly samey-sounding didn't help, and neither did health and record label issues as mentioned.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jun 5, 2018 13:56:53 GMT -5
Perhaps overexposure earlier (1991-96) may have hurt. In a sense that's not fair, as they were/are excellent singers, but they couldn't sustain that level of success indefinitely. And the fact that their hit songs became increasingly samey-sounding didn't help, and neither did health and record label issues as mentioned. Yeah they did focus on ballads too much. I was listening to II today, and it’s actually not ballad-heavy at all, but you’d never know that from the singles. Evolution was then led off with a ballad, and other hit from it was a ballad, too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 14:28:53 GMT -5
I think there’s been a lengthy thread on this before. Music tides changed away from adult contemporary ballads by the turn of the Millennium, and their album quality went downhill after the first two (their 2000 album which ended them was abysmal in my opinion). That I get, and they had internal issues or whatever by then, too. But in 1997 you still had acts like Celine Dion and Leann Rimes selling well, but the drop in album sales BIIM suffered was 10 million. That’s huge! Those aren’t really comparable because both acts really had one major crossover hit that year, and Céline benefited from having the theme song to the biggest movie of all time (at that point) that year. It’s not like they were balladeers still having multiple monster hits from albums the way Boyz II Men did earlier in the decade. Many have argued that Celine’s album wouldn’t have sold a fraction of what it did without “My Heart Will Go On”. Adult contemporary as a whole was taking a backseat to teen pop and hip-hop influenced R&B at that point. This is very subjective, but I also think it’s clear, if you listen to their 1991 and 1994 albums and compare them to their 1997 and 2000 albums, why there was such a drop-off in success. As Cynthia said, it was really a perfect storm of different things that led to their downfall.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 5, 2018 14:50:09 GMT -5
Overexposure?, sounds change?
The "Boyz" became "Men"?
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Unhinged
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Post by Unhinged on Jun 5, 2018 15:49:58 GMT -5
I agree with everything said so far. I remember when they began to get fazed out and it was in 1997. “4 Seasons Of Lonliness” was a No. 1, sure, but I remember feeling at the time that it was just more of the same from them and many of my friends had already moved on to other bands like the Backstreet Boys. Their sound became stale and they couldn’t keep up with the times, plus all their other issues just held them back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 16:33:20 GMT -5
The quality of music began to decline and people turned to worse R&B music instead Yeah, I think the not keeping up with the times thing makes sense. R&B started to decline in popularity at the end of the 90s and that just wasn't as popular.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Jun 5, 2018 19:03:23 GMT -5
On Bended Knee is a great song, if not for that song, I'll Make Love To You would have had the record for most weeks at #1. On Bended Knee took over at #1 after I'll Make Love To You was #1 for 14 weeks.
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pnobelysk
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Post by pnobelysk on Jun 5, 2018 22:27:45 GMT -5
Can confirm I have one of their sons at my work lmao
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stunnedout
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Post by stunnedout on Jun 6, 2018 10:55:11 GMT -5
I've gone through their discography a few times trying to figure out where they went wrong, LOL.
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filthy
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Post by filthy on Jun 9, 2018 15:21:16 GMT -5
They did collab with Charlie Puth recently
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 15:23:23 GMT -5
They went horribly out of trend once the 2000s came around They were one of many artists to lose popularity once the 2000s came around
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Post by collegedropout on Jun 10, 2018 21:25:34 GMT -5
They had quite the run but they couldn't adapt to the new trends. They rode the Babyface R&B/AC sound and once that sound faded, so did they. Toni Braxton had a similar sound/run and even she was able to adapt to the more contemporary R&B of the late 90s with "He Wasn't Man Enough".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 21:38:12 GMT -5
As for the big drop in sales, I think that's bound to happen when you have something go 12x platinum early on. There's only one way to go from there, and that's down.
I also think that it's probably more difficult to sustain a big hit-making career when you have a group of people involved, vs. being a solo artist. Someone always wants to go solo, or leaves the group for other reasons, egos and creative directions clash, and the music suffers as a result. Plus, big acts like them are being "directed" in many ways by the best in the business. As time goes by and they aren't the priority anymore, they get to do their own thing more and more. For some, this may be a good thing and ends up doing wonders for them creatively, if not commercially - but in their case, and most cases, not so much.
I was here for them for all of Evolution. I really like Pass You By but the rest of that 2000 album was like uh-oh. And then Color of Love was a decent throwback to their prime, and I liked it for that reason, but again, the rest of the album was a no.
And here's where the story ends for me.
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daneeis
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Post by daneeis on Sept 4, 2021 16:35:58 GMT -5
After achieving blockbuster success with their first three albums (including Christmas Interpretations), they quickly declined and were unable to recover. What happened?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 19, 2021 8:55:28 GMT -5
I mean that question in two ways. 1. Why did they decline in popularity so suddenly? 2. Why didn't they have more umptempo hits?
Within a span of 4 years, this group had three songs with 13 or more weeks at #1; unparalleled! II was huge, but then "4 Seasons of Loneliness" was a middling #1, and the Evolution album was one of the biggest album-to-album drops we've ever seen (12 million to 2 million in U.S.).
Its also always intrigued me that they started off with the huge jam "Motownphilly" and then never had another hit with an uptempo song. "Thank You" was the only single off II to miss the top 10.
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Dec 19, 2021 10:07:51 GMT -5
I mean it wasn't as sudden as you're making it out to be. They were a consistent hitmaker from 1991-1998. For a pop act, that's a respectable run all things considered and even longer than some recent pop acts. The trends and culture changed in favor of other R&B acts. It happens.
They're far more tragic/puzzling declines from the 90s.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Dec 19, 2021 10:23:39 GMT -5
This question has been asked before, and once by the exact same person who did it now. I merged 4 threads about this subject, so now you can read some analyses about why they dropped out. They are one of the worst big acts of the 90s for me, I cannot stand any of their big ballads these days and didn't like them when they were new. Motownphilly is a cute number, but Jodeci spank them so hard in terms of quality that they're knocked out of the galaxy. They're far more tragic/puzzling declines from the 90s. I'm curious who comes to mind for you. I can see why BIIMs decline may seem sudden for someone just looking at numbers and without much awareness of music trends at the time, but Cynthia hit a lot of nails on the head by mentioning that they got squeezed from the left and the right and fell out of favor with both Pop and R&B audiences at the same time. It wasn't suuuuuper obvious at the time yet because My Heart Will Go On's domination was around the corner, but that type of big ballad that they counted on was on its way out.
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Jay D83
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Post by Jay D83 on Dec 19, 2021 10:41:07 GMT -5
I think their pop fans went to N Sync and Backstreet Boys. Netflix has a great series called "This is Pop" that really breaks it down.
Also, for all intents and purposes, they were (and still are) massive assholes, so no great loss there.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Dec 19, 2021 10:52:01 GMT -5
To have longevity, you need to deliver a lot of excitement as a live act. They are a bit boring in that regard.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 19, 2021 10:52:25 GMT -5
Regardless of trends, going from 9x platinum to an increase to 12x platinum to a drop to 2x platinum is a marked decline. Few artists have that big of a drop from one album to the next, but I can't think of any artist who had two albums in a row that big and then had such a steep decline.
I agree a reliance on ballads hurt them, but that gets to my other question asking about their lack of uptempo hits. "Motownphilly" showed they could do them well and have a hit.
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Dec 19, 2021 11:10:03 GMT -5
They're far more tragic/puzzling declines from the 90s. I'm curious who comes to mind for you. Well just looking at the 90s, in terms of the tragic falls there are more famous ones like Milli Vanilli, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Lauryn Hill (though honestly you could also make a case for all of the members of the Fugees), etc. But then there are also ones that lasted shorter and aren't as glamorous like Vanessa Williams, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Monica, many of the boy bands not named Backstreet Boys, almost ALL of the girl groups that got any hits. I mean we could also lump it in with trends changing but some of these acts could've adapted to trends.
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Post by Positive Tension on Dec 19, 2021 11:24:42 GMT -5
Given how huge they were, I don't know if I even heard one of their songs until fairly recently. I didn't start listening to Pop/R&B until the early 2000s, which coincides with their decline, but I still thought I would've heard their biggest hits on the radio at some point.
I listened to a couple of their songs recently but didn't care for them- just not my style.
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jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Dec 19, 2021 12:31:36 GMT -5
they should do some collabs with modern artists. they have had success in recent years performing their classic hits in Las Vegas.
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magik
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Post by magik on Dec 19, 2021 12:39:47 GMT -5
To have longevity, you need to deliver a lot of excitement as a live act. They are a bit boring in that regard. Yeah, no. This isn't true. Anyway, I think a lot of R&B acts that were popular once upon suffer from this. I also don't think TLC get as much recognition as they should. I do think Janet Jackson has suffered from this after Nipplegate. It's only up until recently she gets a ton of mentions and "reparations," if you will. But her streaming numbers are pretty low. I fear the same thing will happen with Usher and Alicia Keys, even though their streaming numbers are far bigger than Janet's.
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