Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 15:31:58 GMT -5
Full disclosure only says there is a traitor, but nowhere is it implied that they retain their power. It doesn’t make sense for Cop, Deputy, or Doctor as they’re effectively worthless scum roles. Mayor would be the only viable role (which I guess is why Albie pushed for them to claim ok duh). I think at this point we’re circling the drain with no evidence to suggest either interpretation is correct, and even if we were to figure that out I’m not sure what good it would do town anyway. One thing though: Town Doctor Cop and Deputy is just way too good by itself which is why I don’t think Mayor would be scum. All the Cop has to do it claim and they essentially have a free ride to endgame.
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Normi
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Post by Normi on Sept 28, 2017 15:47:19 GMT -5
For me the most suspicious person is Web because he's trying to make strategies on how to vote maybe to avoid him from getting voted out? Idk seems strange to me So he has my vote thus far
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 28, 2017 16:07:37 GMT -5
It's important to say this again for newer players since it's the second time it has happened: voting for the player who just voted for you with little evidence or reasoning is not helpful to town.
normusic, understand that my vote on you isn't a very strong vote at this point, it was a vote to get you to come in and talk, which I'm happy you did. It's also not a personal attack on you, I remember in my first few games I'd always get annoyed when someone voted for me, thinking they obviously had to be scum because I was so obviously town. As I played more I realized that even though you know your affiliation, you have to prove to the rest of the town that you're helpful to them and worth keeping alive.
Mafia is a game where everyone needs to make strategies on how to vote and convince others of why those strategies are worth pursuing. If no one made strategies on how to vote the game would be chaos, and mafia thrive in chaos. As town, you shouldn't be as concerned with getting voted out as you should with finding out who is the mafia. There can be situations in which a town player's lynch can reveal the affiliations of some mafia players based on how the players interacted or voted throughout the day. Mafia is a team game, not an individual game, and if you're playing the game just to stay alive at all costs, it's not the best strategy for the team.
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Mylo13 💜
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Post by Mylo13 💜 on Sept 28, 2017 17:09:28 GMT -5
Okay, let me start fresh. I'm not going to change my vote for now (Because I genuinely believe Kunt is the most suspicious, not just because he voted for me), but I'll simply play the game properly.
Also, quick question, can you say your 'role' in this chat? As in, if people are preparing to lynch you, can you say you were a (example) non-scum deputy? Obviously, you'd need proof, but could you reveal that (Because people may think you're lying anyway)?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 28, 2017 17:48:06 GMT -5
If we're operating in the second line of reasoning it seems odd for the deputy to be mafia as I'm not sure their power would be all that useful to the maf team (maybe protecting a maf and dying in their place if the maf is attacked). It's a (semi?)-open setup, the included roles are in the OP and there are no Town killing roles. The deputy has no utility under the Mafia faction, because there's no night risk there. So the deputy can protect someone being targeted but is killed if the person they protect is targeted. So if deputy is mafia, it's a useless role and just for cover? I mean, it makes sense. My thought of the four was the sheriff would most likely be mafia because it's the only role of the power roles that is strictly observational, but still beneficial to mafia to throw us off. With there being 4 non-town and 10 town, that would give them even more of an advantage. And again, the mayor could be mafia but that would also be a bit of an imbalance if that were the case, since all they'd have to do is reveal themselves, give 2 votes and never worry about being NKed. So as for which of those 4 is likely scum, it depends on how fair we think the setup of the game ultimately is supposed to be. My question based on how the game was set up is, and this is just for clarification because at the start it listed "3 members of mafia" but there are 4 on the mafia team including one of the roles listed above? So of the team, there's the power role (either cop, healer, the mayor and protecter), plus a godfather, a blocker and a regular kill mafia? The "godfather" role appears as "town" if the cop investigates them, correct? If we're near the end of the day and there are two players who have both looked a little scummy, one seemingly experienced and one seemingly inexperienced, I'll go for the inexperienced player lynch 9 times out of 10 since they'll likely be more damaging to town with the natural scumminess that comes with inexperience. .... if an experienced player appears scummy, wouldn't they more likely BE scummy because as an experienced player, they should know better? An inexperienced player appearing scummy would more often than not just be their newbie status. vote: the webinator
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 28, 2017 18:02:01 GMT -5
I think the OP says Godfather DOES return a positive result for the cop in this setup, it's the secret scum that doesn't. It's weird - I'm used to the Godfather being the un-Coppable scum member too.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 28, 2017 18:12:31 GMT -5
Also fair warning; I'm going to the Royal Melbourne Show today so I'mma be virtually useless all day. I'll have my phone but even then expect short posts at best. Sorry.
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matteeeb
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Post by matteeeb on Sept 28, 2017 18:20:00 GMT -5
Also fair warning; I'm going to the Royal Melbourne Show today so I'mma be virtually useless all day. I'll have my phone but even then expect short posts at best. Sorry. Have fun! Vote: NormusicI will most likely be changing this, just want to have a vote out there in case something happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 18:40:29 GMT -5
Devil Marlena Nylund how does sherrif benefit scum? They could just lie and say they copped someone at which point they’re busted next turn for lying and they die. We don’t have a role cop so there’s no way to effectively check that claim either. It’s still a useless role for scum. How is mayor protected from being lynched btw? Let’s say that they hypothetically do get to use this power and are scum (why are we still operating under this assumption?): what is stopping town from going “ok well they clearly double voted town, you might still be the traitor”? @myloninja Why am I the most suspicious? I’m not arguing with you, I just want to know why you’re voting the way you are. It’s usually a good idea to include a reason for your vote. This goes for everyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 18:40:46 GMT -5
*@myloninja13
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 18:40:57 GMT -5
I don’t care anymore
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Post by castleoblivion26 on Sept 28, 2017 19:11:26 GMT -5
I've gone back and forth on whether or not to reveal a few things that seem to be confusing and am gonna clarify somethings here for you:
The traitor retains their power role, regardless of affiliation. However to balance this the 3 main Mafia and the Traitor do not know who is who. If the Mafia were to NK the Traitor, the traitor will not die meaning the traitor can only die by lynching, same with the 3 mafia.
Also, Yes the traitor is one of the 4 town power roles (Sheriff, Deputy, Mayor or Doctor). The way I determined the Traitor will be revealed at the end of the game.
Also to clarify one thing. Anyone can claim a role but you cannot screenshot anything or post what I sent anyone in PM's.
Hope that helps everyone a little. Below is an updated vote list, hopefully I didn't miss anyone. Please try and bold your votes from now on as I could easily miss it if you don't, thanks
Day One ends Saturday Sept 30th at 8pm EST
to have a majority vote 8 people must vote for the same person and keep their vote active until the deadline!
VOTES: myloninja13 - Kunt, Kanenrá:ke Stacey Zedd - Snark Knight Galaxy Girl - Albie Kunt - myloninja13 Kanenrá:ke Stacey - zaclord normusic - thewebinator, Zedd thewebinator - normusic, Rosey Ray Nylund
NO VOTE: gravey, Galaxy Girl, Ice Cream 15 (Broccoli 2017), BackwoodsBarbie
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Mylo13 💜
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Post by Mylo13 💜 on Sept 28, 2017 19:17:00 GMT -5
@myloninja Why am I the most suspicious? I’m not arguing with you, I just want to know why you’re voting the way you are. It’s usually a good idea to include a reason for your vote. This goes for everyone. TBH, it's only because of your vote for thewebinator. You voted for him for... asking a question? You didn't give a reason, so I assumed it was because he was unsure, but that doesn't seem like a reason to vote someone off. Obviously it's a long shot, but out of everyone here, you are probably the one with the most mystery behind them. Mystery can be good in some cases, but it's mystery towards your motives. Or maybe I'm just looking into this too much, I don't know.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 28, 2017 19:20:47 GMT -5
Devil Marlena Nylund how does sherrif benefit scum? They could just lie and say they copped someone at which point they’re busted next turn for lying and they die. We don’t have a role cop so there’s no way to effectively check that claim either. It’s still a useless role for scum. How is mayor protected from being lynched btw? Let’s say that they hypothetically do get to use this power and are scum (why are we still operating under this assumption?): what is stopping town from going “ok well they clearly double voted town, you might still be the traitor”? Mayor wouldn't be protected from being lynched, just being NKed. I suppose if the (scum) Mayor wasn't NKed after a night phase following admitting their role, it could be a sign that they're scum and could be targeted. But, I mean, that in itself could be a tactic depending on who scum are and how well they plan. My thoughts are, they're less likely to be scum because that extra vote would tip the scales of the game setup too far in favour of scum.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 28, 2017 19:23:39 GMT -5
The traitor retains their power role, regardless of affiliation. However to balance this the 3 main Mafia and the Traitor do not know who is who. If the Mafia were to NK the Traitor, the traitor will not die meaning the traitor can only die by lynching, same with the 3 mafia. Yes! I wondered this. Because of how the game was set up and the wording used, I suspected the "traitor" was separate from the 3 mafia. But if mafia win, it's a win for all 4 players? The traitor just has no ability to influence the NK? Ok, this setup just got a lot more interesting....! I'm going to have to think on this again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 19:35:35 GMT -5
@myloninja Why am I the most suspicious? I’m not arguing with you, I just want to know why you’re voting the way you are. It’s usually a good idea to include a reason for your vote. This goes for everyone. TBH, it's only because of your vote for thewebinator. You voted for him for... asking a question? You didn't give a reason, so I assumed it was because he was unsure, but that doesn't seem like a reason to vote someone off. Obviously it's a long shot, but out of everyone here, you are probably the one with the most mystery behind them. Mystery can be good in some cases, but it's mystery towards your motives. Or maybe I'm just looking into this too much, I don't know. I explained this in an earlier post, but to expand on it (because I wasn’t clear) I voted for thewebinator because of the specific question he asked, and some of the proposals weren’t even remotely helpful to town (imo). With so many new players playing, it could have been him putting that idea into their heads while distancing himself because he was “just asking”; but I’ve since taken my vote off of him and asserted that I now think he’s town. Devil Marlena Nylund how does sherrif benefit scum? They could just lie and say they copped someone at which point they’re busted next turn for lying and they die. We don’t have a role cop so there’s no way to effectively check that claim either. It’s still a useless role for scum. How is mayor protected from being lynched btw? Let’s say that they hypothetically do get to use this power and are scum (why are we still operating under this assumption?): what is stopping town from going “ok well they clearly double voted town, you might still be the traitor”? Mayor wouldn't be protected from being lynched, just being NKed. I suppose if the (scum) Mayor wasn't NKed after a night phase following admitting their role, it could be a sign that they're scum and could be targeted. But, I mean, that in itself could be a tactic depending on who scum are and how well they plan. My thoughts are, they're less likely to be scum because that extra vote would tip the scales of the game setup too far in favour of scum. Mayor after being revealed is basically vanilla, so scum has no motivation to actually kill them until the power roles are accounted for. ...two interesting points though, concerning the moderator’s recent revelation. So we do know they retain their power, but that they aren’t in direct contact with scum. This suddenly gives the cop utility as they can fish for their allies, and cover for them if they find them (ie X targets Y and determines they’re aligned with scum, but instead chooses to play as though they copped Z who came up town meaning they can freely claim without having anyone to fact check that). Couple that with what I said on page one about follow the cop being busted and I genuinely think traitor cop is most likely. Town is also fucked because if they lynch the traitor, they can’t make connections to scum from them since they aren’t in contact. Either way, the traitor has the potential to be stupid good for scum. Like, *stupid* good. Now after all that, watch them be Doctor and have no utility whatsoever, lmao.
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Post by castleoblivion26 on Sept 28, 2017 19:35:48 GMT -5
The traitor retains their power role, regardless of affiliation. However to balance this the 3 main Mafia and the Traitor do not know who is who. If the Mafia were to NK the Traitor, the traitor will not die meaning the traitor can only die by lynching, same with the 3 mafia. Yes! I wondered this. Because of how the game was set up and the wording used, I suspected the "traitor" was separate from the 3 mafia. But if mafia win, it's a win for all 4 players? The traitor just has no ability to influence the NK? Ok, this setup just got a lot more interesting....! I'm going to have to think on this again. that is correct, if the game ends with the traitor and the 3 mafia or any combination of them, then they all win
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 28, 2017 20:17:32 GMT -5
If we're near the end of the day and there are two players who have both looked a little scummy, one seemingly experienced and one seemingly inexperienced, I'll go for the inexperienced player lynch 9 times out of 10 since they'll likely be more damaging to town with the natural scumminess that comes with inexperience. .... if an experienced player appears scummy, wouldn't they more likely BE scummy because as an experienced player, they should know better? An inexperienced player appearing scummy would more often than not just be their newbie status. vote: the webinatorOf course, but I think it depends on what the player did to draw the attention and votes. If we're talking about a big scumslip that has the town on edge, then I'd vote the experienced player over the newer player. If we're talking the usual D1 minor misunderstanding snowballed into a mislynch, I still lean towards lynching the less experienced player. I've played in past games where newbie townies take up so much discussion on later days with their scumminess that should be saved for analyzing the play of experienced players. Perhaps you can just chalk it up to difference of opinion/priorities. Another consideration that could override this logic completely is which player tells us more with their flip. In the case we're looking at of two equally scummy players I wouldn't vote for a new player who made two posts and didn't vote or talk to anyone over an experienced player who has made a bunch of accusations and interacted with the town. Unless we're convinced a very inactive/absent player is scum we should always lynch the scummy player that gives the town the most information for future days. Also that new information about the setup is really interesting, and I didn't even consider that the scum power role pretending to be town wouldn't know who the mafia were either. That definitely reframes my thinking about this game and opens up a lot of possibilities.
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 28, 2017 20:32:51 GMT -5
one more question to castleoblivion26 , when the scum traitor flips will we know they were scum? Or will their flip be revealed as TOWN Doctor, Mayor, etc. regardless of affiliation like in the cop scans.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 28, 2017 20:58:31 GMT -5
Vote: BackwoodBarbie Unless I'm mistaken you're one of the people that hadn't weighed in. What are your thoughts?
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Post by castleoblivion26 on Sept 28, 2017 20:58:45 GMT -5
one more question to castleoblivion26 , when the scum traitor flips will we know they were scum? Or will their flip be revealed as TOWN Doctor, Mayor, etc. regardless of affiliation like in the cop scans. Not entirely sure I understand your question but I take it you are asking if the Sheriff (if it isn't them) will know if the traitor is evil or not and the answer is no. There is nothing that will let you know until they are lynched or the game ends. Yes I will reveal their affiliation once they are dead, in case that is what you meant
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 28, 2017 21:18:47 GMT -5
It was the second point about the flip after death, thanks
The reason I asked is if we didn't know which power role was scum even after they flipped then validating claims would be much more complicated.
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Kanenrá:ke
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Post by Kanenrá:ke on Sept 28, 2017 22:01:04 GMT -5
Well the revelation of the traitor and the mafia not knowing each other is interesting and does make me rethink the sheriff as being the more likely of the power roles to flip. A scum Mayor would have almost no way of knowing who they're supposed to work with (This is assuming they can't join any scum group chat?). As Kunt laid out a scum sheriff would be able to find it's people and at least vote with them.
I'm getting a town read on thewebinator, he's obviously an experienced player who could be hiding his scumminess but something about the way he's responding just gives me the town vibe.
I'm keeping my vote where it is for now but I'd like to hear more from backwoodsbarbie & gravey.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 29, 2017 7:30:38 GMT -5
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 29, 2017 7:30:56 GMT -5
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BackwoodsBarbie
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Post by BackwoodsBarbie on Sept 29, 2017 7:54:40 GMT -5
Here are the thoughts I gathered so far. Out of 14 players there are 10 who are completely innocent and 4 there are mafia. Mafia is future divaided into 3 and 1 and they don't know each other which is benificial to town since they can't plan anything together. So 1 out of 4 powerful players is scum. Deputy and Doctor are very useless for the mafia in first stages of this game. The only use I could see is later in the game if town send for example deputy to protect the major and deputy don't protect him so mafia can NK him. So town lose two votes at once but deputy also revele himself as scum (which is good). Major and Sheriff can both be benificial to mafia but not so much since they don't know who they are working with. As I can see there are two ways that the mafia get to know each other: - Sheriff is the 4th mafia player and he goes to investigate one of the other 3 mafia players - Mafia tries to kill one of the power roles at night and since they can't kill him they know he is the 4th member of mafia (If the Mafia were to NK the Traitor, the traitor will not die meaning the traitor can only die by lynching, same with the 3 mafia.)
At this point of the game if power roles reveal themselfs they are each 25% likely to be a scum and other 10 people are then 30% likely to be a scum so it's safer to vote for not power roles. But the diffrence is so small that i don't see how town could benefit from power roles revealing themselfs especially since there is pretty big chance that major is actualy mafia and so town can't count on his extra vote (nor is needed at this point of the game). Also if power roles reveal themslefs they also become very vulnerable to mafia since mafia will probably go after them since they have nothing to lose (there is 75% chance that they kill one of the power roles and 25% chance they discover who is their 4th member).
As far as my voting goes. As you can probably see I'm not big fan of just throwing my vote out there probably because I'm not expirienced enough to know how to benefit from other peoples changing votes. I've played way to much poker back in the days so my strategy is pretty similar to strategy on how to know which poker player is bluffing. My initial strategy was to determine which pulse member is more or less active that normaly (this is months on pulse/posts ratio and then compere the findings with activity in this game) but this strategy has so many flaws that I gave up on it since posts in game forums don't count and some people are more interested and more expirienced in mafia game than others. But I still think that if someone is very active overall on pulse and write a lot of posts with not much content and they are completely silent in this game that this is at least a little bit suspicious. Now i'm focusing more on reading players comments and tracking theri activity in this game.
Vote: Zedd There are still quite a lot of players who haven't contribute anything but some more or less stupid questions about game in general (not this particular game) and Zedd apper the most scumy because he's one of those who keeps constant activity so they won't get voted because of inactivity but still they don't contribute anything to this game. So this vote can easily be changed if I get some opinion on game from Zedd.
I'm new to mafia which is probably obvious at this point so please correct me if any of the previous asumptions are wrong. I'm also not the best in english so feel free to correct my grammer and spelling since I don't have time or patience to go checking every word into a dictionary.
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BackwoodsBarbie
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Post by BackwoodsBarbie on Sept 29, 2017 8:01:02 GMT -5
Man you're impatient (and I get why you are since its already the second part of D1) I've been a little busy lately (It will get better now) and it literally takes forever that I write something readable in English.
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 29, 2017 8:06:11 GMT -5
I really like that above post from BackwoodsBarbie, she's giving me a town lean now. The post and her vote seems logical and well-reasoned, especially for someone who hasn't played the game before, and brings up some good points in different areas of the game that can prompt future discussion.
I'm pretty busy today so I probably won't be able to get in the thread and read over the recent posts until tonight. My schedule is much more open tomorrow so I'll be around for EOD.(end of day)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 8:12:33 GMT -5
I really like that above post from BackwoodsBarbie, she's giving me a town lean now. The post and her vote seems logical and well-reasoned, especially for someone who hasn't played the game before, and brings up some good points in different areas of the game that can prompt future discussion. I'm pretty busy today so I probably won't be able to get in the thread and read over the recent posts until tonight. My schedule is much more open tomorrow so I'll be around for EOD.(end of day) I’m in no way being rude to her but she basically summarized everything already said in the thread lol. Not inherently scummy by itself, but I disagree with the notion that she should be viewed as town.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 8:13:08 GMT -5
*I also don’t think she’s scum either btw. I have a null read.
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