jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 16:02:59 GMT -5
I know Miranda's been winning a long time and it would be fun to shake it up, but it's not like she's doing nothing to win the awards that she gets. She has continued to write, record, and release critically acclaimed work since she debuted. When she won her first Album of the Year prize, she hadn't even gotten a single Top 10 hit yet. Maren and Kelsea had solid years on country radio and touring smaller venues, but Miranda toured bigger venues and had the attention of the masses with "Tin Man." She wasn't undeserving of Female Vocalist this year just because there were a few times in the past decade where some of her awards could've gone to Carrie Underwood instead. Of course she hasn't been undeserving for most of them (there are a couple where I'd argue she didn't do much in the eligibility year, but just a couple), but it's a bit beside the point; there are years where multiple women are deserving, and it gets tiring for the same person to repeatedly win when other women rarely win or have never won at all. It's like Julia Louis Dreyfus at the Emmys; she's terrific in Veep each year and always deserving of an Emmy, but it would also be cool to see someone else win since there is more than one deserving person.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 16, 2018 16:13:34 GMT -5
I know Miranda's been winning a long time and it would be fun to shake it up, but it's not like she's doing nothing to win the awards that she gets. She has continued to write, record, and release critically acclaimed work since she debuted. When she won her first Album of the Year prize, she hadn't even gotten a single Top 10 hit yet. Maren and Kelsea had solid years on country radio and touring smaller venues, but Miranda toured bigger venues and had the attention of the masses with "Tin Man." She wasn't undeserving of Female Vocalist this year just because there were a few times in the past decade where some of her awards could've gone to Carrie Underwood instead. Of course she hasn't been undeserving for most of them (there are a couple where I'd argue she didn't so much in the eligibility year), but it's a bit beside the point; there are years where multiple women are deserving, and it gets tiring for the same person to repeatedly win when other women rarely win or have never won at all. It's like Julia Louis Dreyfus at the Emmys; she's terrific in Veep each year and always deserving of an Emmy, but it would also be cool to see someone else win since there is more than one deserving person. I was rooting for Maren Morris (or Kelsea Ballerini, though I know she's less acclaimed, but I'm a fan of her, too) to win to switch it up because I think it would've been cool to see someone new win, but giving the award to Maren just because 'hey it's someone new' isn't any better. It's not like Maren had an undeniable year that made her the clear frontrunner for the award, so it is what is. It may be tiring, but the Carrie v. Miranda debate is more tiring imo. For some reason Carrie took most of the year off outside of appearing on Keith Urban's single -- that she won an ACM for last night, even -- and still somehow that debate came up again without fail. Like if anything Maren or Kelsea were robbed, not Carrie. I'd say Maren was snubbed more in Vocal Event than Female Vocalist, and not having any women in the EOTY category plus also giving it to Jason Aldean again as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 16:17:55 GMT -5
I personally am more offended there were no women nominated for Entertainer that I am that Miranda won FVOTY again. Both unfair but one more likely to have consequences for a lot of artists I love. I am really happy Tin Man won song, I would have preferred Dear Hate, but I am glad Carrie got something. I haven't watched the performances yet! I'm probably in the minority here, and this will be unpopular, but I don't think a woman should have been nominated this year. I don't believe any had a big enough year, but I feel that that is a consequence of the environment that the country music community has created. It's not right that it is this way, but unfortunately for now it is. This year was not a year for Miranda or Carrie in Entertainer of the Year, however there have been plenty of year where they both should have been nominated. Next year I'm sure Carrie will have the best case, of any artist to be nominated. We'll see though.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 16:22:40 GMT -5
I was rooting for Maren Morris (or Kelsea Ballerini, though I know she's less acclaimed, but I'm a fan of her, too) to win to switch it up because I think it would've been cool to see someone new win, but giving the award to Maren just because 'hey it's someone new' isn't any better. It's not like Maren had an undeniable year that made her the clear frontrunner for the award, so it is what is. I wouldn't say Lambert had an undeniable year either, though, and she's already won Female Vocalist in a cycle that includes her current album. I would agree there was no overwhelming need to honor any of the nominees, but that's why I see it as an opportunity to reward someone like Morris. Morris isn't likely to win in a year when Lambert releases new music or has big success, so at least award someone new in a year when Lambert lacked any real hits. I get that people like the song, but did it have any real impact outside of a week or so on iTunes?
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.indulgecountry
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"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 16, 2018 16:36:02 GMT -5
I get that people like the song, but did it have any real impact outside of a week or so on iTunes? That isn't how the awards work though; it isn't for the biggest song chart-wise. Many people explained their reasoning for why they thought this should've won in this thread when it lost: it was a song that struck a chord for a lot of people in the wake of the Vegas shooting and the show last night took place in Vegas. It also featured Vince Gill (the industry loves him), had a big initial impact upon release on iTunes and from radio who spun it into the Top 30 on the country chart w/o an official radio release, and it was just generally praised as a song. "The Fighter" was a more divisive song, even if it was a bigger hit, so many of us were surprised it won. At the CMA Awards last fall the award went to the Willie Nelson/Glen Campbell song that was also nominated for an ACM last night, and that one wasn't even a single and did exactly nothing, but it was one of the last songs Glen Campbell recorded before passing.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 16:41:33 GMT -5
I get that people like the song, but did it have any real impact outside of a week or so on iTunes? That isn't how the awards work though; it isn't for the biggest song chart-wise. Many people explained their reasoning for why they thought this should've won in this thread when it lost: it was a song that struck a chord for a lot of people in the wake of the Vegas shooting and the show last night took place in Vegas. It also featured Vince Gill (the industry loves him), had a big initial impact upon release on iTunes and from radio who spun it into the Top 30 on the country chart w/o an official radio release, and it was just generally praised as a song. "The Fighter" was a more divisive song, even if it was a bigger hit, so many of us were surprised it won. At the CMA Awards last fall the award went to the Willie Nelson/Glen Campbell song that was also nominated for an ACM last night, and that one wasn't even a single and did exactly nothing, but it was one of the last songs Glen Campbell recorded before passing. Well, success is at least part of the awards, especially at the ACMs (isn't something about impact even written in the criteria? It has been in the past anyway). And aren't radio personnel involved in the voting for the ACMs? Plus, it's clear Sam Hunt won Single of the Year at least in part because it was a big hit. It shouldn't be too big of a surprise that a hit at country radio and in digital sales won Vocal Event. I realize other factors come into play, it's just I am never surprised when a hit (especially one by two major stars) wins.
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.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 16, 2018 17:07:42 GMT -5
That isn't how the awards work though; it isn't for the biggest song chart-wise. Many people explained their reasoning for why they thought this should've won in this thread when it lost: it was a song that struck a chord for a lot of people in the wake of the Vegas shooting and the show last night took place in Vegas. It also featured Vince Gill (the industry loves him), had a big initial impact upon release on iTunes and from radio who spun it into the Top 30 on the country chart w/o an official radio release, and it was just generally praised as a song. "The Fighter" was a more divisive song, even if it was a bigger hit, so many of us were surprised it won. At the CMA Awards last fall the award went to the Willie Nelson/Glen Campbell song that was also nominated for an ACM last night, and that one wasn't even a single and did exactly nothing, but it was one of the last songs Glen Campbell recorded before passing. Well, success is at least part of the awards, especially at the ACMs (isn't something about impact even written in the criteria? It has been in the past anyway). And aren't radio personnel involved in the voting for the ACMs? Plus, it's clear Sam Hunt won Single of the Year at least in part because it was a big hit. It shouldn't be too big of a surprise that a hit at country radio and in digital sales won Vocal Event. I realize other factors come into play, it's just I am never surprised when a hit (especially one by two major stars) wins. I mean, that's kind of the point behind the Single of the Year category though. It's based largely on success; Vocal Event isn't. I mean, the Willie Nelson/Glen Campbell song that was nominated wasn't even a single nor did it chart. Random album tracks are often nominated for that award by artists like Willie Nelson who have no chance of charting, so the criteria for Vocal Event is not comparable to Single of the Year. That song had even just won the CMA Award last fall for Vocal Event, over four hit singles by mainstream artists. So, yeah... nothing about Vocal Event's criteria says to me that "Dear Hate" had no shot of winning.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 17:26:09 GMT -5
Well, success is at least part of the awards, especially at the ACMs (isn't something about impact even written in the criteria? It has been in the past anyway). And aren't radio personnel involved in the voting for the ACMs? Plus, it's clear Sam Hunt won Single of the Year at least in part because it was a big hit. It shouldn't be too big of a surprise that a hit at country radio and in digital sales won Vocal Event. I realize other factors come into play, it's just I am never surprised when a hit (especially one by two major stars) wins. I mean, that's kind of the point behind the Single of the Year category though. It's based largely on success; Vocal Event isn't. I mean, the Willie Nelson/Glen Campbell song that was nominated wasn't even a single nor did it chart. Random album tracks are often nominated for that award by artists like Willie Nelson who have no chance of charting, so the criteria for Vocal Event is not comparable to Single of the Year. That song had even just won the CMA Award last fall for Vocal Event, over four hit singles by mainstream artists. So, yeah... nothing about Vocal Event's criteria says to me that "Dear Hate" had no shot of winning. This is the criteria straight from the ACM site: So, a song needs a certain level of chart success to even be eligible, and then voters are told airplay, sales, and general exposure should be considered in the voting. And again, I never said "Dear Hate" wasn't of good quality or shouldn't have won, per se; I was just pointing out that based on the criteria for the award, it shouldn't surprise anyone that "The Fighter" won.
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.indulgecountry
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Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 16, 2018 17:37:40 GMT -5
I think you're missing the point, jenglisbe. I only feel that a slightly stronger case for "Dear Hate" winning Vocal Event could be made compared to Maren Morris winning Female Vocalist, but I am not surprised nor extremely disappointed "The Fighter" won the award, so you don't need to make a case for why it did win. I understand why it won, but it was nominated in a category that often includes album tracks that don't even chart (and sometimes even win the award, like the example I gave) so whether radio play/amount of sales/overall impact is part of the criteria or not, it is clearly not the deciding factor. I did want "Dear Hate" to win the award in question, but I don't *really* care. You were just implying that it had little impact outside of one week on iTunes and that meant it wasn't a logical winner, to which I (and many others based on this thread) disagree. All I cared about is that we stop having the Carrie vs. Miranda debate... and none of this even has anything to do with that anymore.
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d3vin44
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Post by d3vin44 on Apr 16, 2018 17:50:19 GMT -5
Okay.... This may be a dumb question, but what is with all the shock over Dustin Lynch presenting Single of the Year?
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.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 16, 2018 17:52:22 GMT -5
Okay.... This may be a dumb question, but what is with all the shock over Dustin Lynch presenting Single of the Year? It's because of this: http://instagr.am/p/Bf3e6VrH-T4
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Apr 16, 2018 17:55:49 GMT -5
I called it: Newly announced performers: Kane Brown, Kelly Clarkson, Alan Jackson, Little Big Town and Jon Pardi. Cam, Dustin Lynch, and Kiefer Sutherland are some of the presenters at the award show. I think Dustin Lynch should present the Single of the Year Award.
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Kat5Kind
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Post by Kat5Kind on Apr 16, 2018 18:15:44 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them that he wasn't able to be there??
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Apr 16, 2018 18:23:40 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them tht he wasn't able to be there??I think a good friend's wedding > an awards show.
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jhomes87
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Post by jhomes87 on Apr 16, 2018 18:30:45 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them tht he wasn't able to be there??I think a good friend's wedding > an awards show. I agree, but c'mon, you don't think it's a little bizarre how Sam has completely disappeared from the face of the earth? Something seems really off with him. There have been a couple of occasions where someone in the industry has tweeted something along the lines of "new Sam Hunt music in Q1" or "new Sam Hunt music could happen as early as next Friday" or "new single should definitely be out by the ACMs"...and then weeks and months go by and nothing, and now the ACMs have come and gone and still, nothing. I know artists go on hiatus from time to time but I've never seen anything like what we're seeing with Sam. I mean, artist has quite possibly the biggest country radio hit of all time then goes completely silent on social media and everything for months? It makes no sense. He's like completely out of the public eye. So I think what Kat5Kind was alluding to was that Sam never publicly said why he wasn't going to be there...which seems really odd. I mean how hard would it be to say "hey, can't make the ACMs this year because I've got a wedding that weekend"...but instead the presenter announced Sam as the winner for Single of the Year and then there was a weird pause followed by the presenter saying "Congratulations Sam...now where are ya?" It was just very strange to me, and this whole disappearing act by him is really strange.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 18:31:36 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them tht he wasn't able to be there?? Well, he has nothing to promote and essentially all he did was miss collecting an award. What's the big deal?
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stanches2318
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Post by stanches2318 on Apr 16, 2018 18:36:54 GMT -5
If these country award shows nominated singers based on stats, Entertainer: (Top ticket sellers) Male, Female, Group, Duo (nominate the singer or singers who charted the best and played from say today to January of next yr for ACMS). New artist (nominate singers that were most played and sold the most and actually came out in 2018 for next yrs show) . Single (top 5 best charted songs on radio) Song (Most listened too that came out in that year), video (most watched and played on CMT), Vocal Event (Best selling and most played). Now If all this were happen there would be no debate of who should or shouldn't win. Fair and square.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Apr 16, 2018 18:42:17 GMT -5
I think a good friend's wedding > an awards show. I agree, but c'mon, you don't think it's a little bizarre how Sam has completely disappeared from the face of the earth? Something seems really off with him. There have been a couple of occasions where someone in the industry has tweeted something along the lines of "new Sam Hunt music in Q1" or "new Sam Hunt music could happen as early as next Friday" or "new single should definitely be out by the ACMs"...and then weeks and months go by and nothing, and now the ACMs have come and gone and still, nothing. I know artists go on hiatus from time to time but I've never seen anything like what we're seeing with Sam. I mean, artist has quite possibly the biggest country radio hit of all time then goes completely silent on social media and everything for months? It makes no sense. He's like completely out of the public eye. So I think what Kat5Kind was alluding to was that Sam never publicly said why he wasn't going to be there...which seems really odd. I mean how hard would it be to say "hey, can't make the ACMs this year because I've got a wedding that weekend"...but instead the presenter announced Sam as the winner for Single of the Year and then there was a weird pause followed by the presenter saying "Congratulations Sam...now where are ya?" It was just very strange to me, and this whole disappearing act by him is really strange. These are all good points. I'd just like to add like jenglisbe said above, he really ONLY had this song in the last year. No album, tour, etc. So, he really just released one song (albeit it was huge) but that is it. I agree he probably should have said something, but he has never been one to go the normal route. I don't think it's wrong for people to wish he was there or think he should have been there, but I also don't see anything wrong with him not being there.
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Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Apr 16, 2018 19:03:27 GMT -5
I do understand why people feel the way they do, but I for one am all for artistic merit being the main factor considered in these awards (ACMs, CMAs,etc). As subjective as that can be, its better than just having a popularity contest... we already have the Billboard Music Awards, AMAs, etc... to award success at radio, record sales, success in digital media.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 16, 2018 20:50:00 GMT -5
I do understand why people fell the way they do, but I for one am all for artistic merit being the main factor considered in these awards (ACMs, CMAs,etc). As subjective as that can be, it better than having a popularity contest... we already have the Billboard Music Awards, AMAs, etc... to award success at radio, record sales, success in digital media. But the point is the organization that formed these awards literally lists airplay, sales, etc as criteria for choosing the winners. To not factor those in would literally be going against the guidelines set forth by the organization. There are other factors listed, too, so there is some room to bring in other factors, but voters are also supposed to take 'popularity' into consideration.
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Apr 17, 2018 19:26:57 GMT -5
I think the Grammy format has it right - awarding based on performance on a single song, rather than an overall award for a whole year, which they sometimes ignored the criteria that they listed anyway.
That way, if say someone like Maren or Kelsea or someone new has an absolute outstanding vocal on a hit song, they won't be snubbed as easily and it won't go to Miranda by default during her off years.
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thewp
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Post by thewp on Apr 17, 2018 19:34:27 GMT -5
I think the Grammy format has it right - awarding based on performance on a single song, rather than an overall award for a whole year, which they sometimes ignored the criteria that they listed anyway. That way, if say someone like Maren or Kelsea or someone new has an absolute outstanding vocal on a hit song, they won't be snubbed as easily and it won't go to Miranda by default during her off years. You mean do away with overall categories like Male vocalist or Female Vocalist?
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Apr 17, 2018 19:58:52 GMT -5
No, I like the way they have it. The awards themselves and how they’re organized aren’t the problem, it’s the politics behind how they’re decided and voted on. Come up with a solution to the politics, then you’re golden...
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Apr 17, 2018 20:15:25 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them that he wasn't able to be there?? They’re best friends. They built Sam’s career together. From step one to now. It’s not “messy” at all. Awards are great but spending time with and supporting your friends and family always takes precedence over an award show. Always. Sam has his priorities right.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Apr 17, 2018 20:17:15 GMT -5
This whole Sam thing is beyond messy. What was his manager thinking? Why did he not tell them that he wasn't able to be there?? They’re best friends. They built Sam’s career together. From step one to now. It’s not “messy” at all. Awards are great but spending time with and supporting your friends and family always takes precedence over an award show. Always. Sam has his priorities right. His manager should be helping to look out for Sam. It's messy that he scheduled his wedding ACM's weekend
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Apr 17, 2018 20:20:17 GMT -5
They’re best friends. They built Sam’s career together. From step one to now. It’s not “messy” at all. Awards are great but spending time with and supporting your friends and family always takes precedence over an award show. Always. Sam has his priorities right. His manager should be helping to look out for Sam. It's messy that he scheduled his wedding ACM's weekend How? Some things are planned so far in advance. Weddings are one of these things.
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seak05
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Post by seak05 on Apr 17, 2018 21:19:03 GMT -5
His manager should be helping to look out for Sam. It's messy that he scheduled his wedding ACM's weekend How? Some things are planned so far in advance. Weddings are one of these things. So are concert schedules, and yet basically everyone manages to be free. Heck just have it on a Saturday
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Kat5Kind
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Post by Kat5Kind on Apr 17, 2018 22:08:59 GMT -5
I just think giving the ACMs the heads up that he wouldn't be attending would have prevented that awkwardness, that's all.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Apr 17, 2018 22:12:07 GMT -5
I just think giving the ACMs the heads up that he wouldn't be attending would have prevented that awkwardness, that's all. Yeah, I get what you're saying now. In your previous post, it sounded like you were wondering why Sam wouldn't tell his manager he couldn't go to the wedding.... but I now understand what you're asking. I mean, who's to say he didn't tell them?
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.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Apr 18, 2018 1:07:32 GMT -5
I do understand why people fell the way they do, but I for one am all for artistic merit being the main factor considered in these awards (ACMs, CMAs,etc). As subjective as that can be, it better than having a popularity contest... we already have the Billboard Music Awards, AMAs, etc... to award success at radio, record sales, success in digital media. But the point is the organization that formed these awards literally lists airplay, sales, etc as criteria for choosing the winners. To not factor those in would literally be going against the guidelines set forth by the organization. There are other factors listed, too, so there is some room to bring in other factors, but voters are also supposed to take 'popularity' into consideration. I don't think there's anyone in here advocating that awards be given out with no regard to those factors, and while those criteria are in the guidelines they set out, they are not the only criteria that they award based on. There'd literally be no point to having awards shows if it was purely numbers-driven. And they nominated a random album track from Chris Stapleton's 2015 album for Song of the Year and an album track collaboration that made no impact on the charts in any way shape or form for Vocal Event, so I think you're more hung up on the measurable success criteria than the actual academy is.
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