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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 13:07:23 GMT -5
As an aside on the topic, I've done my share of going through billboard chart books and pulling out hits that met a certain Hot 100 peak criteria. I quickly learned that regardless of how subjective it seems, it's definitely NOT a good way to achieve comprehensive hits collections from any era. There are so many classic songs that were and remain very popular that didn't chart well or at all, and not just during the sales-required era in the 90s. I've had to go through entire discographies and listen to songs, some I didn't recognize by name, to really get a comprehesive playlist from any artist, any given year, decade, etc.
Along with the common Into The Groove reference, All At Once by Whitney was another good example of a song that didn't chart on the Hot 100 but was very much a popular song at the time, and it definitely belongs in her collection of hits.
Anyway, thank god for wikipedia discographies. Very helpful.
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renaboss
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Post by renaboss on Mar 5, 2018 13:26:42 GMT -5
^^... Hmmm. I must admit I don't know "All at Once", at least not by its title. Will have to check it out.
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on Mar 5, 2018 13:33:20 GMT -5
That can go for just about any songs. The one thing the Hot 100 does not do is measure how songs hold up over time. Weekly popularity charts such as this one are for that week only. Over time, the popularity of a song will continue to go up and down there is just no weekly chart reflecting that. Lots of #1 hits from the past would fair poorly today and the reverse is true, lots of songs with poor initial chart runs would be big hits today. Right. It would be so interesting if there was a way to track that. There’s not and never will be so it’s all just subjective. There are some ways. * Has the song recharted as a cover? Part of a medley? Because of a death? * How often is the song used in other media, such as film? * Is the song referenced in other songs? * How well does the song do today in measurements like iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify? For example. "Batdance" is one of Prince's most successful songs. But it did not hold up well. So of the 8 songs that Prince charted during his death, Batdance wasn't one of them. "Numb" did not peak as high as multiple other Linkin Park songs, but when the lead singer died, "Numb" actually re-entered higher than "In The End". "Single Ladies" by Beyonce did not perform quite as well as "Check On It" or "Baby Boy", but it left a mark on pop culture that the other two songs did not. "Hustlin'" by Rick Ross did not peak as high as "The Boss". But "Hustlin" does better on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify than any 2000's Rick Ross song. "Hustlin'" is also sampled in "Party Rock Anthem" by LMFAO. |
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lazer
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Post by lazer on Mar 5, 2018 13:35:06 GMT -5
Is it possible to, like, redo the Hot 100 charts, and fill in certain gaps? Like, when the "physical release" rules were at play, what if the charts were edited to include airplay-only songs, like "Don't Speak"? Or album tracks like in today's times. Or YouTube views accounted for earlier. This would of course need to be done by someone with a lot of free time, a big passion for the subject and who actually understands how those things/numbers work. I fail the last requirement. But, is it feasible? Where would all the necessary data be found? And would there be much of a difference (especially #1-wise)? I don't know if the data exists or not, but there would be no point in Billboard doing it so they'd have to sell the data off or something. "Don't Speak" would not have been #1. It traded off at #1 on Hot 100 Airplay with "Un-break My Heart" so airplay was close between them. "U-BMH" then had the addition of strong sales, so "Don't Speak" would not have been #1 even if it had been allowed to chart. It would have also competed with "Wannabe" for #1, which had big sales and top 10 airplay. My guess is it wouldn't have even been top 2 or 3 since a lot of songs still had commercial singles at that point. It took about a year and a half from the rule change for "Try Again" to become the first airplay-only #1, right? Songs like Don't Speak, Torn, Killing Me Softly, How Bizarre, Fly(Sugar Ray), Iris, Closing Time, I'll Be There For You, 3 AM, Push, Walking on The Sun, Men in Black, As Long As You Love Me, Lovefool, Mr Jones, Head Over Feet, When I Come Around, Black Hole Sun, Good Riddance(Time Of Your Life) were very huge radio hits in the 1990s. They would've had high spots in the year-end charts in those times. I didn't understand Billboard's Album Cut rule, these songs are very iconic in the 90s. |
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Post by Golden Bluebird on Mar 5, 2018 13:44:29 GMT -5
www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8231969/drake-gods-plan-post-malone-psycho-hot-100Drake's 'God's Plan' No. 1 on Billboard Hot 100 for Sixth Week, Post Malone's 'Psycho' Debuts at No. 2"God's Plan" reigns with 92.8 million U.S. streams, while "Psycho" matches Malone's best bow.Drake's "God's Plan" dominates the Billboard Hot 100 chart for a sixth week (dating to its debut at No. 1), logging a hefty 92.8 million U.S. streams, according to Nielsen Music. The song, whose official video arrived Feb. 16, has now logged two of the top four streaming weeks ever. Meanwhile, Post Malone's "Psycho" launches at No. 2 on the Hot 100, equaling Malone's highest debut and marking a new best rank for featured artist Ty Dolla $ign. Let's run down the top 10 of the Hot 100 (dated March 10), which blends all-genre streaming, airplay and sales data. All charts will update on Billboard.com tomorrow (March 6). As on the Hot 100, "Plan," released on Young Money/Cash Money/Republic Records, tallies its sixth week at No. 1 on the Streaming Songs chart, down 9 percent to a still-colossal 92.8 million U.S. streams in the week ending March 1. The week before, the song drew 103.1 million clicks, reflecting the first full week after its video premiere. "God's Plan" now boasts two of the top four, and six of the top nine, streaming weeks all-time: 103.1 million U.S. streams, "Harlem Shake," Baauer (driven heavily by viral videos incorporating the song's official audio), chart dated March 2, 2013 101.7 million, "God's Plan," Drake, March 3, 2018 97.6 million, "Harlem Shake," Baauer, March 9, 2013 92.8 million, "God's Plan," Drake, March 10, 2018 84.5 million, "Look What You Made Me Do," Taylor Swift, Sept. 16, 2017 83.3 million, "God's Plan," Drake, Feb. 10, 2018 82.4 million, "God's Plan," Drake, Feb. 3, 2018 79.6 million, "God's Plan," Drake, Feb. 17, 2018 75.5 million, "God's Plan," Drake, Feb. 24, 2018 "Plan" dips to No. 2 after four weeks at No. 1 on the Digital Song Sales chart, down 17 percent to 67,000 downloads sold in the week ending March 1. On the Radio Songs chart, "Plan" pushes 8-5, up 15 percent to 87 million in all-format airplay audience in the week ending March 4, as it wins the Hot 100's top Airplay Gainer award for a fourth consecutive week. "Plan" concurrently notches a sixth week at No. 1 on both the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and Hot Rap Songs charts. Following its Feb. 23 release, Post Malone's "Psycho" soars onto the Hot 100 at No. 2, led by its No. 2 launch on Streaming Songs with 54.9 million U.S. streams in its first tracking week. Malone ties his highest Hot 100 debut, first set by "Rockstar" (featuring 21 Savage), which began at No. 2 on Oct. 7, 2017, and went on to spend eight weeks at No. 1. Notably, while "Rockstar" debuted at No. 1 on Streaming Songs (which it led for 14 weeks), and "Psycho" starts at No. 2, the former began with a lesser streaming total than the latter (44.1 million vs. 54.9 million). "Psycho" scares up a No. 1 debut on Digital Song Sales with 80,000 sold. Post Malone scores his second leader on the list, after "Rockstar" debuted at No. 1 on Oct. 7 (its lone week on top). Ty Dolla $ign achieves his first Digital Song Sales No. 1. Malone earns his third Hot 100 top 10, following "Congratulations" (featuring Quavo), which hit No. 8 last July, and "Rockstar." Ty Dolla $ign notches his second top five Hot 100 hit and his highest-charting; he reached No. 4 in June 2016 as featured on Fifth Harmony's "Work From Home." Ed Sheeran's former six-week No. 1 "Perfect" drops 2-3 on the Hot 100, while ruling Radio Songs for a ninth week (133 million, down 4 percent). Bruno Mars and Cardi B's "Finesse" falls to No. 4 from its No. 3 Hot 100 high, as it leads Hot R&B Songs for an eighth week. Rounding out the Hot 100's top five, Camila Cabello's "Havana," featuring Young Thug, descends 4-5, after topping the Jan. 27-dated chart. BlocBoy JB's "Look Alive," featuring Drake, retreats to No. 6 from it No. 5 Hot 100 peak, although with gains in all metrics, led by its No. 3 rank on Streaming Songs (39.6 million, up 4 percent). Bebe Rexha and Florida Georgia Line's "Meant to Be" returns to its No. 7 Hot 100 high, from No. 8. It tops Hot Country Songs for a 14th week, breaking the record for the most weeks at No. 1 in the chart's 59-year history for a song with lead female vocals. It passes Little Big Town's "Girl Crush" (sung by the group's Karen Fairchild), which led for 13 weeks in 2015. "Meant" also hits the Radio Songs top 10 (11-8; 80.2 million, up 16 percent), becoming Rexha's third top 10 and Florida Georgia Line's second (matching their respective Hot 100 top 10 totals). Twosome FGL becomes the first core country duo or group with multiple Radio Songs top 10s (dating to the chart's December 1990 inception), passing Dixie Chicks ("Landslide"; No. 8, 2003), Lady Antebellum ("Need You Now"; No. 1, two weeks, 2010) and Lonestar ("Amazed"; No. 5, 2000), each with one. Florida Georgia Line reached No. 8 on Radio Songs (and No. 4 on the Hot 100) in 2013 with its debut hit, "Cruise." Post Malone's aforementioned "Rockstar" slides 6-8 on the Hot 100, while two No. 7-peaking songs from Black Panther: The Album close out the top 10: The Weeknd and Kendrick Lamar's "Pray for Me" holds at No. 9 and Lamar and SZA's "All the Stars" backtracks 7-10. Just outside the Hot 100's top 10, Zedd, Maren Morris and Grey's "The Middle" climbs 13-11, as it leads Hot Dance/Electronic Songs for a fifth week. Plus, 6ix9ine's No. 12-peaking "Gummo" jumps 25-16 on the Hot 100 as the rapper's debut effort Day69 debuts at No. 4 on the Billboard 200; Logic lands the Hot 100's second-highest debut (after Post Malone's "Psycho"), as "44 More" starts at No. 22; and Cabello's "Havana" follow-up "Never Be the Same" hits a new Hot 100 high, rising 28-24. Find out more Hot 100 news in the weekly "Hot 100 Chart Moves" column and by listening (and subscribing) to Billboard's Chart Beat Podcast and Pop Shop Podcast. And again, be sure to visit Billboard.com tomorrow (March 6), when all charts, including the Hot 100 in its entirety, will refresh. The next issue of Billboard magazine is on sale Friday (March 9).
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renaboss
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Post by renaboss on Mar 5, 2018 13:53:31 GMT -5
Oh wow, I was waiting for the Facebook reveal. Seeing Gummo's name at the end scared me, thank God it was outside the top 10.
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Post by Golden Bluebird on Mar 5, 2018 14:15:42 GMT -5
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 5, 2018 14:18:29 GMT -5
I’m saying tastes have changed. Informer is a cheesy pop song that may still have gone to #1 with or without streaming. I’m also saying in today’s world, NBAGT would have gone to #1 with or without streaming. Radio is way more open today to play a rap song than it was back then. Downloads would have been enormous for that song. Just my opinion. That can go for just about any songs. The one thing the Hot 100 does not do is measure how songs hold up over time. Weekly popularity charts such as this one are for that week only. Over time, the popularity of a song will continue to go up and down there is just no weekly chart reflecting that. Lots of #1 hits from the past would fair poorly today and the reverse is true, lots of songs with poor initial chart runs would be big hits today. I think he’s simply saying that in today’s musical climate, G Thing would likely be the big hit and Informer not so much because of how the chart uses streaming and such, things that weren’t available at the time. G Thing (and other Snoop songs) would likely benefit huge from streaming whereas Informer maybe not as much? It’s all speculation and perspective. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 5, 2018 14:20:19 GMT -5
That can go for just about any songs. The one thing the Hot 100 does not do is measure how songs hold up over time. Weekly popularity charts such as this one are for that week only. Over time, the popularity of a song will continue to go up and down there is just no weekly chart reflecting that. Lots of #1 hits from the past would fair poorly today and the reverse is true, lots of songs with poor initial chart runs would be big hits today. I think he’s simply saying that in today’s musical climate, G Thing would likely be the big hit and Informer not so much because of how the chart uses streaming and such, things that weren’t available at the time. G Thing (and other Snoop songs) would likely benefit huge from streaming whereas Informer maybe not as much? It’s all speculation and perspective. If you read further up, That was my first reply - LOL All in agreement |
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fhas
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Post by fhas on Mar 5, 2018 14:32:33 GMT -5
44 More at #22, Lights Down Low at #23, NBTS at #24, Wolves at #25... lemme search some "Everyday I'm Shufflin'" memes...
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kingofpain
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Post by kingofpain on Mar 5, 2018 15:01:48 GMT -5
Fuck, Zedd just missed out on the top 10.
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Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ
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Post by Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ on Mar 5, 2018 15:31:09 GMT -5
Really amazing run for Shape, I thought it would be behind Despacito on year end chart and now it's in all time top 10. Year and two months, you'll be missed.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:38:14 GMT -5
^^... Hmmm. I must admit I don't know "All at Once", at least not by its title. Will have to check it out. It was a single in some countries and got radio airplay here in the US, but was never a single here so it didn't chart. I honestly don't recall if it was mainly AC radio airplay or if it did really well on pop as well. I just remember hearing it a lot. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:44:02 GMT -5
I don't know if the data exists or not, but there would be no point in Billboard doing it so they'd have to sell the data off or something. "Don't Speak" would not have been #1. It traded off at #1 on Hot 100 Airplay with "Un-break My Heart" so airplay was close between them. "U-BMH" then had the addition of strong sales, so "Don't Speak" would not have been #1 even if it had been allowed to chart. It would have also competed with "Wannabe" for #1, which had big sales and top 10 airplay. My guess is it wouldn't have even been top 2 or 3 since a lot of songs still had commercial singles at that point. It took about a year and a half from the rule change for "Try Again" to become the first airplay-only #1, right? Songs like Don't Speak, Torn, Killing Me Softly, How Bizarre, Fly(Sugar Ray), Iris, Closing Time, I'll Be There For You, 3 AM, Push, Walking on The Sun, Men in Black, As Long As You Love Me, Lovefool, Mr Jones, Head Over Feet, When I Come Around, Black Hole Sun, Good Riddance(Time Of Your Life) were very huge radio hits in the 1990s. They would've had high spots in the year-end charts in those times. I didn't understand Billboard's Album Cut rule, these songs are very iconic in the 90s.I think it was at least partially to keep singles, singles, and albums, albums. Given how CDs were selling so well at that time, it was all about blockbuster album sales for the labels. Billboard was like, well, that's fine but let's remember that a single is a single and needs to still exist, folks. It was like BB was trying to force labels hands into releasing singles. But ultimately the labels won because Billboard had to adapt the fact that songs don't (and shouldn't) need physical releases to be incredibly popular and Hot 100 worthy. Billboard recognized that too many big hits were going to be missing from the Hot 100, and labels knew they needed to release a single if they wanted a Hot 100 entry and/or big peak, at least for a limited run. Labels now had a choice to make, and in some cases, it just wasn't a priority to have certain acts charts on the Hot 100. Funny enough that we now find ourselves in a position where single sales are becoming minimal and don't matter nearly as much as they did then. |
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Post by Golden Bluebird on Mar 5, 2018 15:48:13 GMT -5
Woohoo! Victory!
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 5, 2018 15:55:36 GMT -5
Songs like Don't Speak, Torn, Killing Me Softly, How Bizarre, Fly(Sugar Ray), Iris, Closing Time, I'll Be There For You, 3 AM, Push, Walking on The Sun, Men in Black, As Long As You Love Me, Lovefool, Mr Jones, Head Over Feet, When I Come Around, Black Hole Sun, Good Riddance(Time Of Your Life) were very huge radio hits in the 1990s. They would've had high spots in the year-end charts in those times. I didn't understand Billboard's Album Cut rule, these songs are very iconic in the 90s.I think it was at least partially to keep singles, singles, and albums, albums. Given how CDs were selling so well at that time, it was all about blockbuster album sales for the labels. Billboard was like, well, that's fine but let's remember that a single is a single and needs to still exist, folks. It was like BB was trying to force labels hands into releasing singles. But ultimately the labels won because Billboard had to adapt the fact that songs don't (and shouldn't) need physical releases to be incredibly popular and Hot 100 worthy. Billboard recognized that too many big hits were going to be missing from the Hot 100, and labels knew they needed to release a single if they wanted a Hot 100 entry and/or big peak, at least for a limited run. Labels now had a choice to make, and in some cases, it just wasn't a priority to have certain acts charts on the Hot 100. Funny enough that we now find ourselves in a position where single sales are becoming minimal and don't matter nearly as much as they did then. The 90s thing was a fear of cannibalizing album sales. The theory, you put out the single, that is what people will buy and they will be less likely to buy the whole album. So if the single was big enough & you wanted it badly enough, you had to buy the album. The "single" has a different meaning these days since any album cut (radio single or not ) can "go gold" |
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kindofbiased
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Post by kindofbiased on Mar 5, 2018 16:10:33 GMT -5
f**k, Zedd just missed out on the top 10. Luckily that means it will most likely enter the top 10 higher next week |
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Harx
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Post by Harx on Mar 5, 2018 16:21:34 GMT -5
Shape of You is gone the next day after Shape of Water wins best picture, stupid coincidence? probably
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mako
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Post by mako on Mar 5, 2018 16:28:02 GMT -5
N**gas iffy that Gummo didn't get top 10..
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on Mar 5, 2018 16:43:16 GMT -5
I think it was at least partially to keep singles, singles, and albums, albums. Given how CDs were selling so well at that time, it was all about blockbuster album sales for the labels. Billboard was like, well, that's fine but let's remember that a single is a single and needs to still exist, folks. It was like BB was trying to force labels hands into releasing singles. But ultimately the labels won because Billboard had to adapt the fact that songs don't (and shouldn't) need physical releases to be incredibly popular and Hot 100 worthy. Billboard recognized that too many big hits were going to be missing from the Hot 100, and labels knew they needed to release a single if they wanted a Hot 100 entry and/or big peak, at least for a limited run. Labels now had a choice to make, and in some cases, it just wasn't a priority to have certain acts charts on the Hot 100. Funny enough that we now find ourselves in a position where single sales are becoming minimal and don't matter nearly as much as they did then. The 90s thing was a fear of cannibalizing album sales. The theory, you put out the single, that is what people will buy and they will be less likely to buy the whole album. So if the single was big enough & you wanted it badly enough, you had to buy the album. The "single" has a different meaning these days since any album cut (radio single or not ) can "go gold" The irony being that no singles (being forced to buy album) had two direct impacts: 1) pirating and 2) reduced record store visit frequency. I remember when people would go in weekly or every other week to pick up latest singles (and inevitably albums). From what I recall, deleting singles really took off when Columbia stopped producing I'll Be There as soon as it hit #1 in order to boost sales of Unplugged. It must've worked because it wasn't long before single quantities became limited and eventually major songs just skipped the release altogether. |
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Mar 5, 2018 16:55:07 GMT -5
The 90s thing was a fear of cannibalizing album sales. The theory, you put out the single, that is what people will buy and they will be less likely to buy the whole album. So if the single was big enough & you wanted it badly enough, you had to buy the album. The "single" has a different meaning these days since any album cut (radio single or not ) can "go gold" The irony being that no singles (being forced to buy album) had two direct impacts: 1) pirating and 2) reduced record store visit frequency. I remember when people would go in weekly or every other week to pick up latest singles (and inevitably albums). From what I recall, deleting singles really took off when Columbia stopped producing I'll Be There as soon as it hit #1 in order to boost sales of Unplugged. It must've worked because it wasn't long before single quantities became limited and eventually major songs just skipped the release altogether. The first big song I remember being conspicuously absent from the Hot 100 was, believe it or not, the Simpsons' "Do The Bartman" at the end of 1990. It was all over radio and MTV but I couldn't figure out why it wasn't in the Top 40. After I learned about the single availability rule, I saw it happen again a few months later with Janet Jackson's "State Of The World". Then Madonna's "Rescue Me" had a freakishly high (for the time) Hot 100 debut (#15) once the single was released after weeks of suppression. The following year the Mariah/"I'll Be There" situation happened and then we were off and running with the craziness that was the 90s Hot 100. |
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on Mar 5, 2018 16:57:22 GMT -5
N**gas iffy that Gummo didn't get top 10..  |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Mar 5, 2018 17:24:48 GMT -5
The irony being that no singles (being forced to buy album) had two direct impacts: 1) pirating and 2) reduced record store visit frequency. I remember when people would go in weekly or every other week to pick up latest singles (and inevitably albums). From what I recall, deleting singles really took off when Columbia stopped producing I'll Be There as soon as it hit #1 in order to boost sales of Unplugged. It must've worked because it wasn't long before single quantities became limited and eventually major songs just skipped the release altogether. The first big song I remember being conspicuously absent from the Hot 100 was, believe it or not, the Simpsons' "Do The Bartman" at the end of 1990. It was all over radio and MTV but I couldn't figure out why it wasn't in the Top 40. After I learned about the single availability rule, I saw it happen again a few months later with Janet Jackson's "State Of The World". Then Madonna's "Rescue Me" had a freakishly high (for the time) Hot 100 debut (#15) once the single was released after weeks of suppression. The following year the Mariah/"I'll Be There" situation happened and then we were off and running with the craziness that was the 90s Hot 100. Go back further into the 80s - signs of things to come Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming - Jermaine & Michael Into The Groove - Madonna Edge of A Broken Heart - Bon Jovi All big hits |
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jebsib
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Post by jebsib on Mar 5, 2018 17:25:09 GMT -5
Labels did it for years.
"Into the Groove" and songs by Jermaine Jackson, Led Zeppelin and Elton John all charted in Airplay-Only Radio & Records Top 10 back in the 70s and 80s.
BTW, you guys were mentioning Whitney's "All at Once" - It DID chart in the U.S. - Radio & Records, AC chart at # 23.
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on Mar 5, 2018 17:27:04 GMT -5
6ix9ine is too street for the Top 10. We'll look forward to that 6ixth charting song once he makes a video for "93" or something though  |
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ddlz
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Post by ddlz on Mar 5, 2018 17:42:50 GMT -5
Psycho is turning out to be a dud I predicted on first listen, already free-falling everywhere. Hopefully it doesn't kill Post's momentum. :| The Middle's success...  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 17:44:06 GMT -5
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on Mar 5, 2018 17:55:44 GMT -5
Not a big Ed Sheeran fan, but sad to see one of the hottest songs in America right now not being represented on the chart.
Looking forward to Billboard hopefully correcting this problem soon.
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Abbaschand
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Post by Abbaschand on Mar 5, 2018 17:58:33 GMT -5
Just watched the official Billboard's top 10 video on YouTube, and the comments are flooded by some ARMY saying, "Where's Daydream?" and I'm like, "What the hell is Daydream?"
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Sherane Lamar
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Post by Sherane Lamar on Mar 5, 2018 18:01:48 GMT -5
Just watched the official Billboard's top 10 video on YouTube, and the comments are flooded by some ARMY saying, "Where's Daydream?" and I'm like, "What the hell is Daydream?" Probably The Lovin' Spoonful fans. (Spoonies, as they call themselves). That fanbase can be really over the top. |
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