newpower
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Post by newpower on May 9, 2018 7:29:00 GMT -5
Tidal accused of manipulating streaming figuresBy Simon Lucas 9th May 2018 The fallout could be considerable if this story proves accurate. Tidal has been throwing some pretty confident numbers about during the last couple of years. In March of 2016, it claimed a) 250m streams of Kanye West's The Life of Pablo in just 10 days and b) 3m subscribers. A couple of months later it suggested Beyoncé's Lemonade had passed the 360m streams mark in the first 15 days of its availability. Eyebrows were raised at the time. The numbers suggested every single Tidal subscriber streamed Kanye's record eight times a day for 10 days straight. And according to music industry research firm Midia, Tidal's true subscriber numbers were closer to 1m at the start of 2017. Now Norwegian newspaper Dagens Næringsliv is reporting Tidal has not only been inflating its subscriber numbers, but also manipulating its listener numbers by hundreds of millions. According to the newspaper, this has led to "massive royalty payments at the expense of other artists". It's being reported on in English by Music Business Worldwide - it explains DN enlisted the help of the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU) to deal with the information contained on a hard drive of internal Tidal data the newspaper acquired. According to the NTNU, the digital intelligence methodologies included Tidal accessing genuine user accounts to rack up duplicate streams (as many as 150m) and repeating subscribers' own streams to bulk up the play-count. You can read the 73 pages of its report here - NTNU team leader Professor Katrin Franke asserts it is "highly likely the manipulation happened from within the streaming service itself". If there's any substance to the claims, the ramifications for Tidal could be considerable. The company supposedly paid Sony music more than $4m across March and April 2016 (of which Lemonade accounted for $2.5m), while The Life of Pablo accounted for more than $2m of the $3.2 Tidal paid to Universal during February and March 2016. Unsurprisingly, Tidal has been robust in its denial of Dagens Næringsliv's story. Tidal's lawyer at the law firm of Reed Smith is quoted as saying "each of these accusations is demonstrably false. You [DN journalist Markus Tobiassen] and DN lied to NTNU to procure a study". Tidal accused of manipulating streaming figures
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Zach
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Post by Zach on May 9, 2018 8:49:15 GMT -5
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on May 9, 2018 9:05:33 GMT -5
Lol I don’t see Jay-Z going down without a fight.
Why did someone decide to look into this, though?
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on May 9, 2018 10:02:37 GMT -5
Tidal be tossing out 90 day free subscriptions like beads at Mardi Gras. They could easily use those to inflate their numbers temporarily to use as a marketing tactic and to manipulate the numbers. Spotify and Apple Music combat this by having the subscriber put down a card to gain access even if it's just for a trial subscription. Tidal only requires an email address to gain access as a "paid" subscriber during trial periods.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on May 9, 2018 10:07:14 GMT -5
Tidal be tossing out 90 day free subscriptions like beads at Mardi Gras. They could easily use those to inflate their numbers temporarily to use as a marketing tactic and to manipulate the numbers. Spotify and Apple Music combat this by having the subscriber put down a card to gain access even if it's just for a trial subscription. Tidal only requires an email address to gain access as a "paid" subscriber during trial periods. Sometimes when my day is rough, I remember the scene from Insecure when one of the random hookups says that he has a free Tidal trial membership, and it still makes me smile.
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on May 9, 2018 10:48:48 GMT -5
Specifically for Beyoncé and Kanye...hmm...
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Mic Technique
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Post by Mic Technique on May 9, 2018 11:23:54 GMT -5
In sum, Tidal is just a money laundering scheme that redistributes streams to the likes of Beyoncé and Kanye West in order to generate massive royalty payouts at the expense of other, smaller artists. Color me surprised.
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on May 9, 2018 11:27:16 GMT -5
In sum, Tidal is just a money laundering scheme that redistributes streams to the likes of Beyoncé and Kanye West in order to generate massive royalty payouts at the expense of other, smaller artists. Color me surprised. More Beyoncé and less Kanye at this moment. Kanye came for Jay-Z last year about his money and leaving Tidal because of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 11:27:51 GMT -5
Well, how else was Kanye supposed to pay back all that money he allegedly owes Jay?
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on May 9, 2018 11:31:27 GMT -5
I want to know who actually saw a piece of that Sprint check tho.
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on May 9, 2018 12:51:51 GMT -5
If you're going to inflate streams, at least make it plausible. Who wouldn't question those numbers? If Tidal isn't making money from subscribers, what's the real source of those royalties? Obviously the labels are aware of what's happening.
Except for chart manipulation, no one is really hurt by inflated streams. What is clear is that TIDAL will only be a fringe player among streaming services.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on May 9, 2018 15:44:19 GMT -5
Totally not surprised. I hope authorities look into this.
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on May 9, 2018 16:00:39 GMT -5
We're creeping into embezzlement territory.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on May 9, 2018 16:09:09 GMT -5
If you're going to inflate streams, at least make it plausible. Who wouldn't question those numbers? If Tidal isn't making money from subscribers, what's the real source of those royalties? Obviously the labels are aware of what's happening. Except for chart manipulation, no one is really hurt by inflated streams. What is clear is that TIDAL will only be a fringe player among streaming services. To my understanding, inflating numbers for Kanye/Beyoncé takes away money from smaller artists, because everyone gets paid based on how much they were played compared to everyone else. Considering the two artists in question are Jay-Z's best friend and spouse, it raises of the question of whether TIDAL is just an elaborate scam. How does pay work? As in, who is paying artists for their plays on Tidal?
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on May 9, 2018 16:16:25 GMT -5
We're creeping into embezzlement territory. not to mention nepotism, especially with Beyoncé.
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Post by collegedropout on May 9, 2018 17:34:34 GMT -5
Ouch. I'm sure Bey will come out unscathed. Jay on the other hand...
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on May 9, 2018 17:36:40 GMT -5
Who could have guessed this whole scheme wasn't on the up and up
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on May 9, 2018 18:57:25 GMT -5
The financial entanglement/exposure is probably another reason why independent strong woman Beyonce stuck with Jay-Z instead of pulling a Solange. That would explain a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 21:42:33 GMT -5
We're creeping into embezzlement territory. We are far beyond creeping. Jay better pony up that bribe money since he's on a criminal roll, b/c this is not a good look at all. Bey will probably be able to wiggle out of this tho, b/c she's never been associated with the actual business aspect of Tidal. To my understanding, inflating numbers for Kanye/Beyoncé takes away money from smaller artists, because everyone gets paid based on how much they were played compared to everyone else. Considering the two artists in question are Jay-Z's best friend and spouse, it raises of the question of whether TIDAL is just an elaborate scam. How does pay work? As in, who is paying artists for their plays on Tidal? Money comes from investors and/or lenders, which Tidal then uses to pay its royalties and operating costs. Probably investors for the most part; lenders expect their money back. Investors assume the risk. In theory this took away money from other artists, but in reality, since Tidal isn't getting that many streams at all, it's not likely that other artists should have been paid more. It's that Beyonce and Kanye - or their labels, rather - should have been getting paid much less. Per the wording of that article, all that money went to Sony and Universal, not Bey or Kanye themselves. It also wouldn't surprise me at all if the majority of regular Tidal users are Bey/Kanye fans. Many of Tidal's overall streams likely did come from people listening to Lemonade and Pablo b/c they couldn't stream them anywhere else. So if the numbers were duplicated roughly evenly across accounts, it would easily benefit them - the connection to Jay is tangential. If the Anti rollout hadn't been botched so badly that's another album I think Tidal would have tried to inflate somehow. That doesn't make it any less of a terrible look; either way it was a n alleged scam to encourage investors to keep dumping money into the service. I just point that out b/c I have a feeling this scam wasn't designed solely for those two, it just ended up working out that way. I think this was broadly about goosing the #s to keep investors on board, and skimming some money off the top along the way. Whatever the case may be, this definitely explains why Tidal refused to report its #s to Billboard, lol.
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on May 10, 2018 4:00:56 GMT -5
Tidal didn't report kanye's number but reported Beyonce's. anyway, this doesn't even make sense why would tidal do it? those quick streaming doesn't make big money for kanye and B. in fact, having tidal exclusive was huge loss for kanye which is why he left. Tidal didn't lie when they said +1m new user with those 2 exclusive, the apple store ranking is the proof. with those user, their number wasn't out of reach at all.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on May 11, 2018 4:59:20 GMT -5
What does the Apple store (i assume you mean the iOS App Store?)have to do with anything? There's no data on how many times an app is downloaded that's publicly available. There is literally no way to know apart from Tidal's internal data
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House Lannister
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Post by House Lannister on May 14, 2018 16:13:39 GMT -5
I agree that Beyonce walks out of this fine. But just how involved in this business is Jay-Z?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 2:10:06 GMT -5
I agree that Beyonce walks out of this fine. But just how involved in this business is Jay-Z? According to this Variety article, Jay, Marcelo Claure (president and CEO of Sprint), and Desiree Perez (a 'longtime confidant' of Jay's) are heavily involved in Tidal's management. When Sprint bought 33% of Tidal in January 2017, Jay secured Claure a seat on the board of directors. He wouldn't have been able to do that unless he was on/leading the board himself. Likewise, the board of directors pick the corporation's executive officers. Side bar, that Sprint deal was worth $200m and was pushed through almost immediately after the Norwegian paper first reported on the supposedly inflated #s, back in January 2017. Interesting timing. Tidal can't keep a CEO which makes the matter that much more curious.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on May 15, 2018 8:09:09 GMT -5
Tidal has been a mess since its inception and I've never liked the exclusivity aspect of it. In fact, I always wished Beyoncé gave LEMONADE a full release after a certain period.
That said, LEMONADE clearly didn't need inflated numbers. Demand was high and its sales at full price speak loudly. Besides, it never had any suspect spikes during its chart run except for when she promoted with an award show performance. If they were really manipulating the numbers that much, they would have given the album huge numbers at least for the first 2 months.
I know that's what I'd do if I were to scam for my favs. lol
I have no doubts that the company will be shut down pretty soon. And for good.
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jun 12, 2020 3:17:56 GMT -5
"investigation has been active since June 21st, 2019." yet did nothing. this is going nowhere.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Jun 12, 2020 16:12:41 GMT -5
NOT Norway!
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Post by collegedropout on Jun 13, 2020 12:34:59 GMT -5
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Disco🌶️📖
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Post by Disco🌶️📖 on Jun 18, 2020 16:38:09 GMT -5
Jay-Z' Tidal admits to changing streaming numbers for Kanye West...sortaMusic streaming wannabe-service Tidal admits to have changed streaming numbers for the launch of Kanye West's album "Life of Pablo" in Feb 2016 due to 'technical difficulties', according to newly released court documents. According to Tidal, thir system collapsed due to the large surge in demand when Kanye West released the album. The numbers for February was therefore changed "in an attempt to reflect more accurately the true listening patters and consumer behaviour best estimated at that time". In 2016, Tidal claimed Pablo had been streamed 250 million times in its first 10 days and people weren't having it. A police investigation for fraud-allegations was launched (Tidal is based in Norway). Tidal has previously denied any wrongdoings. www.dn.no/etterbors/tidal-innrommer-a-ha-endret-strommetallene-etter-lanseringen-av-kanye-west-album/2-1-827373
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Jun 19, 2020 0:47:56 GMT -5
Shameful
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