|
Post by wayneashleymusic on Jul 6, 2018 9:41:07 GMT -5
Obviously, the short answer is YES. Most people know that in 2016, Sia became the first woman over 40 to top the Billboard Hot 100 in 16 years. That feat made her one of just 3 women (with Madonna in 2000 and Cher in 1999) to have a number 1 on that chart in nearly 3 decades. 2019 will mark exactly 30 years since Bette Midler's chart topper.
But why does this blatant ageism continue, and who holds the cards to the old system??
It appears that Pop Radio is part of the issue. If we take persons over 35 on Pop Radio, the landscape is admittedly rather thin. But the difference to women and men is quite surprising.
Over the last 5 years, there have been 44 instances of men 35 and older hitting number one on the Billboard Pop Songs Chart. This includes instances where the same person topped the charts with multiple songs (for example, the members of Maroon 5), or an instance where multiple prominent men over 35 were featured artists on a record.
But with all of those machinations applied over the same time frame, women have claimed a Pop Songs Number One just 5 times in the last five years. And even that 5 number is somewhat debatable. For example, Ed Sheeran's song Perfect hit number one in 2018, but a previous version of the song features Beyonce, which hit number one on the Hot 100. In those 5 occurrences, the leaders are just 3 women... P!nk, Sia and Beyonce.
This is just some informal research done by me via Billboard.com. But can someone please explain... why does radio have such an issue with women over 35?!?!
|
|
House Lannister
6x Platinum Member
Would be Twitcher/YouTuber
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,522
|
Post by House Lannister on Jul 6, 2018 16:51:08 GMT -5
It's not just pop music.
Country radio also has that problem; note the lack of chart performance for Reba McEntire despite a good country album a year or two ago or Shania Twain more recently. In the former case, only Cumulus (the co-owner for her new label) would play her new songs.
|
|
boscy
2x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2017
Posts: 2,932
|
Post by boscy on Jul 6, 2018 18:47:42 GMT -5
Radio seems to fail to give airplay for veteran artists who release new albums, artists such as Dylan, McCartney, Starr, Springsteen, Fogerty, McGuinn, Costello, Plant, etc., even when such artists receive critical acclaim for their latest releases.
Roger Daltrey's latest release, "As Long As I Have You", seems to be doing well critically, is getting airplay overseas, but US classic rock radio stations seem to be neglecting to play it.
|
|
anthonyc
New Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 186
|
Post by anthonyc on Jul 11, 2018 15:57:15 GMT -5
Pop radio certainly does regardless of the song sounding like a hit or being catchy.
Some of the most notable instances are Sia's flames with d. guetta Celine Dion's Ashes. I think the Aoki demix could work well for sure. Kylie Minogues Dancing Deborah Cox let the world be ours tonight Toni Braxton's Coping (Remix) and Shania Twain Lifes about to get good.
Props to JLo being the queen on the chart, but we do need more to balance out.
Before you know it, Pink, Christina, Britney and Kelly might all be in this position.
Also I think on deck for Top 40 suffering or total abandonment:
Sheryl Crow Alanis Gwen Stefani Brandy Mariah Carey Alicia Keys Janet Madonna Mary J. Blige Monica Cher Shakira Jessica Simpson Avril Lavigne Jojo Christina Milian LeAnn Rimes Missy Elliot Mya Ciara Jordin Sparks any of the Spice Girls
I'd like to hear thoughts on any others I might have missed or any women that still have the small possibility of getting play again.
|
|
nick64
Diamond Member
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 14,415
|
Post by nick64 on Jul 15, 2018 20:31:07 GMT -5
Over the last 5 years, there have been 44 instances of men 35 and older hitting number one on the Billboard Pop Songs Chart. This includes instances where the same person topped the charts with multiple songs (for example, the members of Maroon 5), or an instance where multiple prominent men over 35 were featured artists on a record. But with all of those machinations applied over the same time frame, women have claimed a Pop Songs Number One just 5 times in the last five years. And even that 5 number is somewhat debatable. For example, Ed Sheeran's song Perfect hit number one in 2018, but a previous version of the song features Beyonce, which hit number one on the Hot 100. In those 5 occurrences, the leaders are just 3 women... P!nk, Sia and Beyonce. Where are these stats coming from? There have only been 21 instances for men since early 2013 (many of these being producers, members of bands, or rappers), while Sia was the only one for women (Beyonce as well if you count "Perfect"). P!nk never did it.
|
|
trustypepper
5x Platinum Member
Ain't Your Mama
Hell, I love everybody.
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 5,731
|
Post by trustypepper on Jul 15, 2018 20:43:03 GMT -5
Radio in general has a laundry list of problems, ageism being one of them.
|
|
EvanJ
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,371
|
Post by EvanJ on Jul 16, 2018 18:21:19 GMT -5
Also I think on deck for Top 40 suffering or total abandonment: Sheryl Crow Alanis Gwen Stefani Brandy Mariah Carey Alicia Keys Janet Madonna Mary J. Blige Monica Cher Shakira Jessica Simpson Avril Lavigne Jojo Christina Milian LeAnn Rimes Missy Elliot Mya Ciara Jordin Sparks any of the Spice Girls I'd like to hear thoughts on any others I might have missed or any women that still have the small possibility of getting play again. To go with Alanis and Sheryl, you could add Jewel and Sarah McLachlan. Most of them already don't get played on Pop, and many of them don't get played on AC. Madonna has many songs on AC (I would say she and Billy Joel have the most). Of the other artists you listed, the songs I hear the most on AC might be "Ironic," "Complicated," and Alicia's "No One." Occasionally I hear these on AC: Other Alanis songs Alicia's "Fallin'" Sheryl's "Soak Up The Sun" and "If It Makes You Happy" Gwen featuring Akon's "The Sweet Escape" Shakira featuring Wyclef Jean's "Hips Don't Lie" Mariah's "Always Be My Baby" Cher's "If I Could Turn Back Time" Mary's "Family Affair"
|
|
garrettlen
Gold Member
Joined: April 2017
Posts: 882
|
Post by garrettlen on Jul 16, 2018 21:02:33 GMT -5
Pop radio certainly does regardless of the song sounding like a hit or being catchy. Some of the most notable instances are Sia's flames with d. guetta Celine Dion's Ashes. I think the Aoki demix could work well for sure. Kylie Minogues Dancing Deborah Cox let the world be ours tonight Toni Braxton's Coping (Remix) and Shania Twain Lifes about to get good. Props to JLo being the queen on the chart, but we do need more to balance out. Before you know it, Pink, Christina, Britney and Kelly might all be in this position. Also I think on deck for Top 40 suffering or total abandonment: Sheryl Crow Alanis Gwen Stefani Brandy Mariah Carey Alicia Keys Janet Madonna Mary J. Blige Monica Cher Shakira Jessica Simpson Avril Lavigne Jojo Christina Milian LeAnn Rimes Missy Elliot Mya Ciara Jordin Sparks any of the Spice Girls I'd like to hear thoughts on any others I might have missed or any women that still have the small possibility of getting play again. You forgot Britney Spears. At nearly 37 years old, she's done at Top 40 radio too.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 16, 2018 21:09:25 GMT -5
Why would a radio format that targets a 15-24 demographic (or 14-29 or whatever, a young audience) play music by artists who donβt appeal to them, or who appealed to people their age 10 years ago? I get the argument but when you think about it, it makes sense. Granted, it doesnβt make sense that women are given the exit when reaching that age but men can hold on a little bit longer. But I guess the demographic of pop is also heavily female-lead too.
|
|
|
Post by wayneashleymusic on Jul 17, 2018 10:35:05 GMT -5
Over the last 5 years, there have been 44 instances of men 35 and older hitting number one on the Billboard Pop Songs Chart. This includes instances where the same person topped the charts with multiple songs (for example, the members of Maroon 5), or an instance where multiple prominent men over 35 were featured artists on a record. But with all of those machinations applied over the same time frame, women have claimed a Pop Songs Number One just 5 times in the last five years. And even that 5 number is somewhat debatable. For example, Ed Sheeran's song Perfect hit number one in 2018, but a previous version of the song features Beyonce, which hit number one on the Hot 100. In those 5 occurrences, the leaders are just 3 women... P!nk, Sia and Beyonce. Where are these stats coming from? There have only been 21 instances for men since early 2013 (many of these being producers, members of bands, or rappers), while Sia was the only one for women (Beyonce as well if you count "Perfect"). P!nk never did it. Thank you for this, and I see what happened. I started on Billboard, but ended up using the Wikipedia "Top 40 number 1 songs". But now I see the issue. In Wiki, the 2018 stats list only number 1 songs, but when you click back to 2017 and the previous years, it lists all sorts of numbers that are other than the chart leader. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Mainstream_Top_40_number-one_songs_of_2018VS. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mainstream_Top_40_top_10_singles_in_2017 With that in mind, no wonder I was so off!! But in some ways it's an even sadder state of affairs as there have only been 5 instances of women over 35 breaking through to the Top 10 at Pop Radio in the last 5 years. The information for males does indeed include bands. Maroon 5 has several males over 35, Daft Punk has 2, etc. So in my thinking, I was counting all of them. Apologies to all.
|
|
toomuchboy
6x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2012
Posts: 6,733
|
Post by toomuchboy on Jul 17, 2018 11:15:25 GMT -5
It's not just pop music. Country radio also has that problem; note the lack of chart performance for Reba McEntire despite a good country album a year or two ago or Shania Twain more recently. In the former case, only Cumulus (the co-owner for her new label) would play her new songs. Country has more of a woman-of-any-age problem.
|
|
bat1990
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2004
Posts: 12,869
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by bat1990 on Jul 17, 2018 21:35:23 GMT -5
I'm impatiently awaiting #TimesUp to wash through the music industry.
Teenagers were rocking out to Tina Turner, Pat Benatar, and Cher in the 80s and early 90s. I refuse to believe that the age of a performer is such a huge factor in their actual appeal to the top 40 demographic when there are soooooo many middle-aged and/or old white men who are the gatekeepers to major exposure in the music industry.
|
|
Revelry
2x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2008
Posts: 2,160
|
Post by Revelry on Jul 18, 2018 9:44:59 GMT -5
^Totally agree. A bunch of the 30-something girls (Katy, P!nk, Gaga, Beyonce, Britney, Christina, Kelly, Kesha etc) should band together and shine some light on this. Obviously the entertainment business (and music especially) is an agist industry, but it certainly effects women 10x more than it does the men of the same age.
|
|
bat1990
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2004
Posts: 12,869
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by bat1990 on Jul 18, 2018 15:34:20 GMT -5
^Totally agree. A bunch of the 30-something girls (Katy, P!nk, Gaga, Beyonce, Britney, Christina, Kelly, Kesha etc) should band together and shine some light on this. Obviously the entertainment business (and music especially) is an agist industry, but it certainly effects women 10x more than it does the men of the same age. I'm not on Twitter, but can someone tweet this sentiment to all of the above artists + Rihanna, Nicki, Taylor, and any worth including? It's a long shot, but why not?
|
|
EvanJ
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,371
|
Post by EvanJ on Jul 19, 2018 21:36:03 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMFqs-_dYVo and www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpfYDv2Nthg are by domino artist Lily Hevesh done for Katy Perry. It would be unique if Lily used dominoes to make a slogan like "play 30+ women." You can make a proposal to Hevesh5 @gmail.com (remove the space I put in so computer bots can't read it). I don't know how much she would charge, but maybe many people here could split the cost. If Lily made a video like that, the women Revelry and bat1990 proposed could link from their websites to the video.
|
|