P.I.M.P. - which version was bigger, 50 Cent solo or w/Snoop

[thebops]

I'm continuing my quest to obtain (digitially) every Hot 100 Top 10 since the mid-50s. P.I.M.P. hit #3 in the summer of 2003 for one week. For that week (and for it's run), which was the bigger version as far as contributing more points to it's position, the 50 Cent solo version or the remix with Snoop Dogg, Lloyd Banks, and Young Buck?

May 31, 2003 - song debuts on Hot 100
Aug 12, 2003 - single is released with both solo and Featuring versions on it (Shady 000888 for the 12" vinyl and CD promo). iTunes still has the single in it's store, same release date.
Week ending Aug 16, 2003 - P.I.M.P. at #4 on Hot 100 (all the points would have been due to airplay prior to the single being released)
Aug. 23, 2003 - song reaches it's #3 peak.

On one hand: 1) Billboard only credited 50 Cent solo on the song, 2) It would appear that the solo version was charting on airplay alone from 5/31 to 8/12 where it reached #4. The extra boost from initial single sales digitally may have pushed it up to #3 but seems like airplay was still the main driver.

On the other hand: 1) From Wikipedia: "A remixed version of the song, featuring fellow rappers Snoop Dogg, Lloyd Banks and Young Buck, was released as the album's fourth official single on August 12, 2003", 2) The iTunes popularity bars today, 15 years later, show more support for the remix version, 3) Although YouTube views did not count back in 2003, it looks like the only video made was for the remix version.

I didn't listen to rap back then; can someone weigh in on which version contributed more to it's overall chart position during it's peak week? Thanks for the input.

[iHype.]

Oct 11, 2018 21:05:44 GMT -5 thebops said:

I'm continuing my quest to obtain (digitially) every Hot 100 Top 10 since the mid-50s.

That's gonna be one big ass library. And this thread is so ironic as I was listening to another top 10 by 50.

I'm guessing the solo version got majority play at Pop, but not sure about Urban/Rhythmic.
However most of the time if a remix got more airplay, Billboard would credit the remix so.

[Gary]

Not really that big - about 5100 songs is all

[kierz7]

Oct 11, 2018 21:50:45 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Oct 11, 2018 21:05:44 GMT -5 thebops said:

I'm continuing my quest to obtain (digitially) every Hot 100 Top 10 since the mid-50s.

That's gonna be one big ass library. And this thread is so ironic as I was listening to another top 10 by 50.

I'm guessing the solo version got majority play at Pop, but not sure about Urban/Rhythmic.
However most of the time if a remix got more airplay, Billboard would credit the remix so.

Yes. You're right.

The solo version received more airplay at Mainstream Top 40 radio. Following the major crossover success of "In Da Club", Pop outlets were comfortable in playing him whereas Urban and Rhythmic outlets played the remix more.

That same year, this was also the case with Fabulous' "So Into You" featuring both Ashanti and Tamia. Mainstream Top 40 radio played the version with Ashanti moreso than the other with Tamia which Urban and Rhythmic radio played more.

Billboard didn't highlight the song as "Fabulous featuring Tamia or Ashanti" until it hit the top ten on the Hot 100.

Fabulous dd an interview/performance on TRL in 2004 and the host congratulated him on his then current album and on the success of "So Into You" also. Fabulous briefly thanked both Tamia and Ashanti and the host quipped "I only know the Ashanti one...". [LOL].

[owenlovesmusic]

Just get both lol

[owenlovesmusic]

On the Billboard Hot 100, only 50 Cent is credited so probably solo.

[korbel16]

Had no idea there was a remix so that pretty much answers the question

[BlueSwan]

I would certainly say the original.

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2018 0:33:45 GMT -5 korbel16 said:

Had no idea there was a remix so that pretty much answers the question

Meanwhile, I didn't realize until now that the remix was not the original version lol.

I think P.I.M.P. is a sort of odd situation, where the version that got more chart points is probably not the version that was actually 'bigger' or even promoted, really. There was indeed only one video, which used the remix and was released about a month before the song was sent to radio. The remix is also the version that 50 performed at the VMAs. But as others have pointed out, if BB only credited 50 then most likely the album version is what performed the best...on radio. Physical sales were dead at the time while digital sales weren't being factored into the Hot 100 yet. The points from pop airplay (which most likely used the clean album edit) would have outweighed the urban points that the remix got since pop had a bigger audience.

[kierz7]

Oct 12, 2018 3:31:05 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Oct 12, 2018 0:33:45 GMT -5 korbel16 said:

Had no idea there was a remix so that pretty much answers the question

Meanwhile, I didn't realize until now that the remix was not the original version lol.

I think P.I.M.P. is a sort of odd situation, where the version that got more chart points is probably not the version that was actually 'bigger' or even promoted, really. There was indeed only one video, which used the remix and was released about a month before the song was sent to radio. The remix is also the version that 50 performed at the VMAs. But as others have pointed out, if BB only credited 50 then most likely the album version is what performed the best...on radio. Physical sales were dead at the time while digital sales weren't being factored into the Hot 100 yet. The points from pop airplay (which most likely used the clean album edit) would have outweighed the urban points that the remix got since pop had a bigger audience.

P.I.M.P was released in 2003. At the time, Mainstream Top 40 radio did not garner a bigger audience than Urban or Rhythmic radio. As a matter of fact, Urban radio as well as Rhythmic radio garnered a much greater audience than Pop radio starting in 2001 and lasting until 2007 largely.

In 2003, the song to garner the highest audience on Pop radio was Black Eyed Peas' "Where Is The Love" which peaked at +72M listener impressions.

Meanwhile, that same year, Alicia Keys' "You Don't Know My Name" peaked at +90M listener impressions on Urban radio alone. 

In terms of other hits that year, 50 Cent's "In Da Club" peaked at +80M listener impressions on Urban & Rhythmic radio; Beyonce's "Baby Boy" peaked at +70M listener impressions on Urban & Rhythmic radio. Both songs peaked in the +50M region on Pop radio.

Between 2003 - 2006 especially you could LITERALLY chart atop the Hot 100 with the power of just Urban and Rhythmic airplay alone where the biggest songs would peak at +150M listener impressions from those simply those two formats. Pop lovers are lucky that the Digital era started to explode which 'finally' brought variety to the upper echelon of the charts again.

Today it's the opposite and has been since 2010 at least. Mainstream and Adult Top 40 radio pull in the biggest audience. That will change however now that we're in the streaming era where Urban music once has a say again. Hopefully the Urban and Rhythmic formats are reweighed and the stations expand. 

[imbondz]

Oct 11, 2018 23:48:58 GMT -5 owenlovesmusic said:

Just get both lol

lol. That was gonna be my comment.

[rockgolf]

Oct 11, 2018 21:05:44 GMT -5 thebops said:

I'm continuing my quest to obtain (digitially) every Hot 100 Top 10 since the mid-50s.

I'm wondering what will be the hardest track to get...

My guess would be Nadia's Theme (The Young & The Restless) by Perry Botkin and Barry de Vorzon, which appears never to have been released on CD, and therefore might not be easily obtainable digitally either.

It's the song Mary J. Blige samples in No More Drama.

That same instrumental has 3 different titles. Originally it was the theme from the movie Bless The Beasts and Children, then, when it was used in the Olympics TV coverage to back performances by 12-year-old wunderkind gymnast Nadia Comenci, was renamed Nadia's Theme, and then it was picked up as the theme for the soap The Young and the Restless and got it's third name.

It's the P. Diddy of lite instrumentals.

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2018 5:43:19 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Oct 12, 2018 3:31:05 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Meanwhile, I didn't realize until now that the remix was not the original version lol.

I think P.I.M.P. is a sort of odd situation, where the version that got more chart points is probably not the version that was actually 'bigger' or even promoted, really. There was indeed only one video, which used the remix and was released about a month before the song was sent to radio. The remix is also the version that 50 performed at the VMAs. But as others have pointed out, if BB only credited 50 then most likely the album version is what performed the best...on radio. Physical sales were dead at the time while digital sales weren't being factored into the Hot 100 yet. The points from pop airplay (which most likely used the clean album edit) would have outweighed the urban points that the remix got since pop had a bigger audience.

P.I.M.P was released in 2003. At the time, Mainstream Top 40 radio did not garner a bigger audience than Urban or Rhythmic radio. As a matter of fact, Urban radio as well as Rhythmic radio garnered a much greater audience than Pop radio starting in 2001 and lasting until 2007 largely.

In 2003, the song to garner the highest audience on Pop radio was Black Eyed Peas' "Where Is The Love" which peaked at +72M listener impressions.

Meanwhile, that same year, Alicia Keys' "You Don't Know My Name" peaked at +90M listener impressions on Urban radio alone. 

In terms of other hits that year, 50 Cent's "In Da Club" peaked at +80M listener impressions on Urban & Rhythmic radio; Beyonce's "Baby Boy" peaked at +70M listener impressions on Urban & Rhythmic radio. Both songs peaked in the +50M region on Pop radio.

Between 2003 - 2006 especially you could LITERALLY chart atop the Hot 100 with the power of just Urban and Rhythmic airplay alone where the biggest songs would peak at +150M listener impressions from those simply those two formats. Pop lovers are lucky that the Digital era started to explode which 'finally' brought variety to the upper echelon of the charts again.

Today it's the opposite and has been since 2010 at least. Mainstream and Adult Top 40 radio pull in the biggest audience. That will change however now that we're in the streaming era where Urban music once has a say again. Hopefully the Urban and Rhythmic formats are reweighed and the stations expand. 

Oh, interesting, I did not know that! Was urban/rhythmic bigger at the tail end of the '90s too? R&B did really well in th mid-late '90s, but I always attributed that to physical single sales. Anyway, That makes the album version of P.I.M.P. more curious to me - I honestly never heard that version anywhere (didn't buy that album, the singles were just inescapable). Definitely not on tv, where only the remix would have been played. But format aside, I do think that was essentially what happened - most of radio must have been playing the original, even though it was the remix that 50 was using to sell the song. Had digital counted for Hot 100 purposes back then, I think the remix would have gotten the credit for at least those first few weeks after the vid was released.

TBH I don't think any radio format's size is going to increase with streaming in the picture now. If anything, its weight in the Hot 100 chart will eventually have to be decreased (however, I also foresee internet radio or genre-focused playlists becoming a legit metric and essentially taking radio's place in a couple of decades). Terrestrial radio won't die - we need it for non-music reasons - but its glory days are behind us.

[renaboss]

I'm currently sorta halfway through getting every top 10 song ever for the second time. (I lost the first collection, don't ask) Good to know I'm not alone in that.

[renaboss]

As for me, I just go with the credited artists, if there are two popular versions. For example, I hate the remix for Britney's "Till the World Ends", with Nicki and Kesha, but that's the version that's credited on Billboard (at least when the song hit its peak, which is the chart I always check), so that's the one I got. And when no version is specified, I get whichever one I like best. For example, Mike Posner's "I Took a Pill in Ibiza" makes no mention of the SeeB remix, so I get the original ballad, which is muuuuuch better imo. Same goes with Tove Lo's "Habits". However, I can't do that with "Summertime Sadness" because Cedric Gervais is credited, even though I hate the remix and love the original.

So, if Snoop Dogg isn't billed for P.I.M.P. on Billboard (haven't made it through the 2000s yet myself), then I would go for the Snoop-less version myself, probably. Your call. A lot of the times, featured artists aren't credited but you have to get the songs with them anyway, like with Brandy's "Brokenhearted", that doesn't credit Wanya Morris from Boyz II Men.

[rockgolf]

While you're at it, which version of Deborah Cox's Nobody's Supposed To Be Here are you going with? The ballad or the uptempo?

As I recall, about the only thing they have in common is the title. They are effectively two different songs.

[Walking Contradiction]

For whatever it's worth, in NYC the remix got the bulk of Urban/Rhythmic airplay, while the original was played on CHR Z100.

[iHype.]

Oct 12, 2018 14:34:35 GMT -5 rockgolf said:

While you're at it, which version of Deborah Cox's Nobody's Supposed To Be Here are you going with? The ballad or the uptempo?

As I recall, about the only thing they have in common is the title. They are effectively two different songs.

Lol in America it was definitely the ballad. At radio it reached #1 on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay, and they would never touch a dance remix. 

It didn't go far on Pop, peaking #32. So even if Pop played the dance remix, that was a very small portion of its overall play.


However overseas I'm sure the minor charting the song had was probably due to the remix.

[85la]

I didn't know there was a popular remix to P.I.M.P. either. It's important to note that the iTunes store, the first legal digital retailer, didn't open until April 2003, so it was barely operating at the time P.I.M.P. was charting, plus digital sales didn't count towards the Hot 100 till 2005 anyway, so any digital sales for either version wouldn't have been a factor. Only whatever minimal physical sales there were and mostly airplay would have contributed.

And this claim that both Urban and Rhythmic Audiences were higher than pop audiences around that time (mid-2000s) is highly dubious, especially these figures thrown out such as You Don't Know My Name reaching 90 million on Urban. Can anyone verify this?

This was definitely not the case since early 2007, when I started paying close attention to audience figures from the different formats provided by Radio & Records (which aligned closely with what Billboard used), and sorry, but I saw the specific numbers and pop audiences were higher then. I think the confusion is that OVERALL, yes, urban and rhythmic-leaning songs had higher audiences from ALL formats combined, as they had a lot of pop play as well, but I doubt that the no. 1 song on urban and rhythmic each had a higher audience total than the no. 1 at pop.

[bjordan]

The version with Snoop Dogg got the most airplay.

[85la]

Not me just checking this thinking it's a new thread, only to realize I had already responded 4 years earlier with a 3 paragraph answer lol

[WolfSpear]

I wonder how far you’ve come in your quest, thebops. I find that even after 17 years of collecting, I’m far from ever having everything… but I always enjoy the thrill of discovering new music.

[Gary]

Sept 24, 2022 12:55:18 GMT -5 WolfSpear said:

I wonder how far you’ve come in your quest, thebops . I find that even after 17 years of collecting, I’m far from ever having everything… but I always enjoy the thrill of discovering new music.

I have a digital copy of every top 10 song back to August 1958

I just got the 1950s Hot 100 book so I might try to go back further

[WolfSpear]

Cool! Do you download or rip the music from disc?

I have a number of NOW comps and numerous Rhino and Time Life samplers. I doubt I have anything that extensive, but that’s my source for a number of songs. There’s a good helping of pre-rock too but far from being comprehensive…

[Gary]

Sept 24, 2022 14:31:14 GMT -5 WolfSpear said:

Cool! Do you download or rip the music from disc?

I have a number of NOW comps and numerous Rhino and Time Life samplers. I doubt I have anything that extensive, but that’s my source for a number of songs. There’s a good helping of pre-rock too but far from being comprehensive…

Both -- fairly large disc collection got most of it
downloaded the rest

a few not available at retail picked up with recording software from youtube