|
Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Mar 10, 2019 12:26:56 GMT -5
Jason Aldean also releases stuff at a more consistent pace than Miranda Lambert does. But when she has put out music, it's usually sold very well in most cases and no worse than his own singles. And your second point is false: Chris Stapleton was not only nominated, but he won Male Vocalist and Album of the Year at the CMAs in the same year his debut album came out, which that + the viral performance with Justin Timblerake is what got the fans to start buying his music. The critics gave him the most attention before consumers did and then country radio came last (and they're still lagging behind). Not false. The same year he got sales. Haha you said it yourself. His album came out, it sold, he got nominated. But it wasn’t his debut album. It was his major label debut....but all his release before? Are you saying they weren’t quality? No, they were....he just had no sales to back it up. EDIT: The album came out in May. He was nominated and won for the CMAs...which were in November.
No, .indulgecountry is right. Stapleton DID get nominated and WON before being a big selling artist. At the time of his win, the album had peaked at #14 on the Billboard 200 and was already out of the charts FOR MONTHS. The quality of his work and his acclaim were the key elements for that CMA cerimony. Traveller wasn't a major seller at all and was completely "forgotten" by the general buying public by the time the CMA ceremony happened. His wins were the turning moment for him.
From the week after the CMA 2015:
"This week, Chris’ album makes a re-entry on the Billboard 200 chart at #1! The album was released in May and debuted on the chart at #14. It never rose any higher and had fallen off the chart back in September. Billboard reports that up until the week before the CMA Awards Show ending October 29th the album had only sold 90,000 copies.
Traveller last week sold more than 153,000 copies to re-enter the Billboard 200 chart at the top and give Chris Stapleton his first #1 album. Obviously that also puts the album at #1 on the Billboard Country Album sales chart as well.
I’m sure that Chris’ performance with Justin Timberlake on the CMA Awards also helped boost the sales of the album. Watch the performance in the two videos below"
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 12:28:13 GMT -5
Jason Aldean also releases stuff at a more consistent pace than Miranda Lambert does. But when she has put out music, it's usually sold very well in most cases and no worse than his own singles. And your second point is false: Chris Stapleton was not only nominated, but he won Male Vocalist and Album of the Year at the CMAs in the same year his debut album came out, which that + the viral performance with Justin Timblerake is what got the fans to start buying his music. The critics gave him the most attention before consumers did and then country radio came last (and they're still lagging behind). Not false. The same year he got sales. Haha you said it yourself. His album came out, it sold, he got nominated. But it wasn’t his debut album. It was his major label debut....but all his release before? Are you saying they weren’t quality? No, they were....he just had no sales to back it up. EDIT: The album came out in May. He was nominated and won for the CMAs...which were in November. Bruh, it debuted at #2 on the charts when it came out with 27,000 copies which is solid considering no radio support, but it sold over 150,000 copies the week following the CMA wins and performance and shot to #1 on the charts. The big sales response came after his wins, not before. It is well documented that he blew up big because of the CMAs, not the other way around. Also I have no clue what your other point is even about in regards to it being his "major label" debut because I can find no evidence he released any other albums before Traveller and even if he had albums out before that, I never said anything in re: their quality so I'm really not following your thought process here. Honestly I think your earlier point about "agreeing to disagree" is probably true because I think at this point you're just getting yourself confused with all the arguments you're trying to make, lol.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 12:34:31 GMT -5
Not false. The same year he got sales. Haha you said it yourself. His album came out, it sold, he got nominated. But it wasn’t his debut album. It was his major label debut....but all his release before? Are you saying they weren’t quality? No, they were....he just had no sales to back it up. EDIT: The album came out in May. He was nominated and won for the CMAs...which were in November. Bruh, it debuted at #2 on the charts when it came out with 27,000 copies which is solid considering no radio support, but it sold over 150,000 copies the week following the CMA wins and performance and shot to #1 on the charts. The big sales response came after his wins, not before. It is well documented that he blew up big because of the CMAs, not the other way around. Also I have no clue what your other point is even about in regards to it being his "major label" debut because I can find no evidence he released any other albums before Traveller and even if he had albums out before that, I never said anything in re: their quality so I'm really not following your thought process here. Honestly I think your earlier point about "agreeing to disagree" is probably true because I think at this point you're just getting yourself confused with all the arguments you're trying to make, lol. Not getting confused. Worked in radio bud. I have copies of his stuff before he got signed to a major. 27,000 in sales is SALES. Never said it was massive. Never said it went #1. All I said was it had to have sales and quality. All my argument is you have to have both. Sales and quality to get nominated. If not, Lori McKenna’s fantastic album would win every freaking award. We don’t have to agree; but to saying getting confused is not cool. Never said your argument was invalid. Just said didn’t agree with it...and this is the reasons why and in the end, the industry saw it the way I see it, which makes it an absolute valid argument.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 12:37:59 GMT -5
Not false. The same year he got sales. Haha you said it yourself. His album came out, it sold, he got nominated. But it wasn’t his debut album. It was his major label debut....but all his release before? Are you saying they weren’t quality? No, they were....he just had no sales to back it up. EDIT: The album came out in May. He was nominated and won for the CMAs...which were in November. No, .indulgecountry is right. Stapleton DID get nominated and WON before being a big selling artist. At the time of his win, the album had peaked at #14 on the Billboard 200 and was already out of the charts FOR MONTHS. The quality of his work and his acclaim were the key elements for that CMA cerimony. Traveller wasn't a major seller at all and was completely "forgotten" by the general buying public by the time the CMA ceremony happened. His wins were the turning moment for him. From the week after the CMA 2015: "This week, Chris’ album makes a re-entry on the Billboard 200 chart at #1! The album was released in May and debuted on the chart at #14. It never rose any higher and had fallen off the chart back in September. Billboard reports that up until the week before the CMA Awards Show ending October 29th the album had only sold 90,000 copies.
Traveller last week sold more than 153,000 copies to re-enter the Billboard 200 chart at the top and give Chris Stapleton his first #1 album. Obviously that also puts the album at #1 on the Billboard Country Album sales chart as well.
I’m sure that Chris’ performance with Justin Timberlake on the CMA Awards also helped boost the sales of the album. Watch the performance in the two videos below"
Please go back in my post and tell me where i said “big selling artist”....never did. Just said SALES. May he had SALES. Which got him noticed, more so, than he had in the past. Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell shit, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations.
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 12:39:24 GMT -5
I think at the end of the day I think both bigfan and indulge bring up fair points and neither one of you are 100% right or wrong on this.
For me personally if I had to say who was the defining country artist of the 2010s it would be Jason Aldean with Luke Bryan as my #2, FGL #3, and Carrie Underwood #4 with Blake Shelton rounding out the Top 5.
Each year Jason Aldean got hit after hit out, his albums always sold at a respectable A-list level and his touring sales were also at a good level. Add in his current album era really being his biggest era since the My Kinda Party era and with that comes a ton of momentum with the industry he seems like an obvious #1 for the decade imo.
|
|
stanches2318
Platinum Member
Banned
Joined: July 2012
Posts: 1,136
|
Post by stanches2318 on Mar 10, 2019 12:45:25 GMT -5
I say let’s all agree to disagree. You know this process is messed up when there are a lot of variables, as we all pointed out above. We all brought up different ways to look at the Artist Of The Decade, And we came up with no conclusion or definite answer.
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 12:54:56 GMT -5
No, .indulgecountry is right. Stapleton DID get nominated and WON before being a big selling artist. At the time of his win, the album had peaked at #14 on the Billboard 200 and was already out of the charts FOR MONTHS. The quality of his work and his acclaim were the key elements for that CMA cerimony. Traveller wasn't a major seller at all and was completely "forgotten" by the general buying public by the time the CMA ceremony happened. His wins were the turning moment for him. From the week after the CMA 2015: "This week, Chris’ album makes a re-entry on the Billboard 200 chart at #1! The album was released in May and debuted on the chart at #14. It never rose any higher and had fallen off the chart back in September. Billboard reports that up until the week before the CMA Awards Show ending October 29th the album had only sold 90,000 copies.
Traveller last week sold more than 153,000 copies to re-enter the Billboard 200 chart at the top and give Chris Stapleton his first #1 album. Obviously that also puts the album at #1 on the Billboard Country Album sales chart as well.
I’m sure that Chris’ performance with Justin Timberlake on the CMA Awards also helped boost the sales of the album. Watch the performance in the two videos below"
Please go back in my post and tell me where i said “big selling artist”....never did. Just said SALES. May he had SALES. Which got him noticed, more so, than he had in the past. Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. Lori McKenna's album was in the Americana genre, not mainstream country music, and she released it on some indie label called CN Records that I've never even heard of. Chris Stapleton's record was a mainstream country release on a major label. To say Lori didn't get nominated because she sold poorly is dismissive of all the factors that go into nominations, one of the main ones being that labels lobby for nominations and whatever a CN Records is has no leverage in doing that. If she had the same kind of label backing artists like Ashley McBryde, Brandy Clark, and Ashley Monroe have she might have sold more records and had a chance at being nominated. And making a point to say Chris had "SALES" and not major ones leading up to the awards just seems so pointless to me... like, well duh, it was a commercially released album, of course someone bought it. But he couldn't have had "SALES" for his previous records since nothing before Traveller was ever released on a major scale to even acquire "SALES" and apparently only people like you heard it from working in radio. What a moot point.
|
|
stanches2318
Platinum Member
Banned
Joined: July 2012
Posts: 1,136
|
Post by stanches2318 on Mar 10, 2019 12:59:17 GMT -5
Anyways the ACMs are next Month, I wonder if they’re gonna give the new artist categories out early like they always do or wait for the show.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 13:04:12 GMT -5
Please go back in my post and tell me where i said “big selling artist”....never did. Just said SALES. May he had SALES. Which got him noticed, more so, than he had in the past. Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. Lori McKenna's album was in the Americana genre, not mainstream country music, and she released it on some indie label called CN Records that I've never even heard of. Chris Stapleton's record was a mainstream country release on a major label. To say Lori didn't get nominated because she sold poorly is dismissive of all the factors that go into nominations, one of the main ones being that labels lobby for nominations and whatever a CN Records is has no leverage in doing that. If she had the same kind of label backing artists like Ashley McBryde, Brandy Clark, and Ashley Monroe have she might have sold more records and had a chance at being nominated. And making a point to say Chris had "SALES" and not major ones leading up to the awards just seems so pointless to me... like, well duh, it was a commercially released album, of course someone bought it. But he couldn't have had "SALES" for his previous records since nothing before Traveller was ever released on a major scale to even acquire "SALES" and apparently only people like you heard it from working in radio. What a moot point. You are literally making my point for me. Ashley McBryde had a great critically acclaimed album that could have been nominated in this awards. What did she not have? SALES. She sold a third of the albums that Stapleton did in the first week. Did she get a nomination for album? Nope. Sure didn’t. And. How many “commercially released albums” recently have sold 27,000 recently? Especially debuts....the ones I’ve seen recently (ie Morgan Evans, Jordan Davis, Russel Dickerson) have sold less then 10k. So he DID stand out with SALES. He had quality as well...but he also had sales. And yes he was indie before, but he was a well-known indie due to his work with the Steeldrivers. Again, I see what you are saying, and I will quit arguing with you once you realize that what I’m saying has merit, because it does.
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 13:13:08 GMT -5
Anyways the ACMs are next Month, I wonder if they’re gonna give the new artist categories out early like they always do or wait for the show. Probably not, since the ACMs love to have their performances on the show I do think each 3 will have a short performance during the show. Between the regular awards, Jason Aldean getting this award. I don't think the New Artists will be presented on air.
|
|
carrieidol1
Diamond Member
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 12,670
|
Post by carrieidol1 on Mar 10, 2019 13:23:28 GMT -5
Obviously they’re not going to nominate someone with zero chart and sales presence, but no one is saying only quantitative stuff matters. An artist is definitely going to need radio airplay, record sales, and impressive touring stats to be considered, but similar to EOTY where ambassadorship to country music is a main criteria, Artist of the Decade should also take that into account as well. For example, critical acclaim, international recognition, TV/Movie appearances & projects, philanthropy, collaborations, business ventures, etc; all of that and more SHOULD be taken into consideration when looking at the decade as a whole. When you do look across all of those fields in addition to the quantitative stats, there’s a slew of artists who presented very strong cases for Artist of the Decade aside from Jason. Jason definitely deserved to be in the mix, but personally there are three artists I would have rather seen: Keith, Carrie, or Luke. In the end, Jason was always a viable contender so there isn’t really too much to be upset about, if you ask me. I think Jason had the edge because of the confusing love the ACMs have for him, not surprised in the least...
|
|
|
Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Mar 10, 2019 13:59:03 GMT -5
No, .indulgecountry is right. Stapleton DID get nominated and WON before being a big selling artist. At the time of his win, the album had peaked at #14 on the Billboard 200 and was already out of the charts FOR MONTHS. The quality of his work and his acclaim were the key elements for that CMA cerimony. Traveller wasn't a major seller at all and was completely "forgotten" by the general buying public by the time the CMA ceremony happened. His wins were the turning moment for him. From the week after the CMA 2015: "This week, Chris’ album makes a re-entry on the Billboard 200 chart at #1! The album was released in May and debuted on the chart at #14. It never rose any higher and had fallen off the chart back in September. Billboard reports that up until the week before the CMA Awards Show ending October 29th the album had only sold 90,000 copies.
Traveller last week sold more than 153,000 copies to re-enter the Billboard 200 chart at the top and give Chris Stapleton his first #1 album. Obviously that also puts the album at #1 on the Billboard Country Album sales chart as well.
I’m sure that Chris’ performance with Justin Timberlake on the CMA Awards also helped boost the sales of the album. Watch the performance in the two videos below"
Please go back in my post and tell me where i said “big selling artist”....never did. Just said SALES. May he had SALES. Which got him noticed, more so, than he had in the past. Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. Ok, the thing is, there are TWO different arguments going on here and you're treating as if both of them where supporting the same point. They aren't. First, this "if quality is all that matters" argument was never our point at all. We know that's not the reality (e.g. Jason winning this award). Our point is that we feel like quality should be what matters the most (knowing it's a subjective concept and all). That's the point of view from those who are unhappy with Jason getting this honor instead of someone who put out high quality work throughout the past 10 years despite not having the same numbers as Aldean. Now, there's this second argument happening about Stapleton's "sales" being an important part of the equation that resulted in his big wins back on 2015. I'm not sure how or why this was brought up in the first place as it doesn't support any point being defended here. Of course sales helps any artist getting relevance... it's a pretty obvious point. We just disagreed with your statement because when you used "sales" in the context of it being a element working in favor of Stapleton that year, it came off as if his sales were substantial enough to put him in front of his competition (for nominations or wins), which just didn't make much sense considering he was by far the least commercially successful artist in all line-ups he competed in that year, which made it obvious that the quality of his work spoke loudly for him than sales that year.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 14:07:14 GMT -5
Please go back in my post and tell me where i said “big selling artist”....never did. Just said SALES. May he had SALES. Which got him noticed, more so, than he had in the past. Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. Ok, the thing is, there are TWO different arguments going on here and you're treating as if both of them where supporting the same point. They aren't. First, this "if quality is all that matters" argument was never our point at all. We know that's not the reality (e.g. Jason winning this award). Our point is that we feel like quality should be what matters the most (knowing it's a subjective concept and all). That's the point of view from those who are unhappy with Jason getting this honor instead of someone who put out high quality work throughout the past 10 years despite not having the same numbers as Aldean. Now, there's this second argument happening about Stapleton's "sales" being an important part of the equation that resulted in his big wins back on 2015. I'm not sure how or why this was brought up in the first place as it doesn't support any point being defended here. Of course sales helps any artist getting relevance... it's a pretty obvious point. We just disagreed with your statement because when you used "sales" in the context of it being a element working in favor of Stapleton that year, it came off as if his sales were substantial enough to put him in front of his competition (for nominations or wins), which just didn't make much sense considering he was by far the least commercially successful artist in all line-ups he competed in that year, which made it obvious that the quality of his work spoke loudly for him than sales that year.
This is pointless. But i will try one more time. If you think quality is all that matters, the award shows wouldn’t exist. You have to have some consumer interest. You have to give credit to what people are listening to, and buying. Take away radio if you want. That’s fine, I agree they are biased towards women. But let’s look at what people are buying, paying to see or choosing to stream. Jason gets the W there. These awards can’t be solely based on quality. That is all I am trying to say. Miranda would win over Jason based on quality, but when you are talking about a HUGE award, what the consumers have chosen to consume HAS to come into play. And the consumers have consistently chosen to pick Jason over Miranda. The sales helped him get noticed. Absolutely. They got his name out there. And then, when he makes the final five, and other people listen, then he can get the votes based on merit. Ashley, as we have discussed had a ton of critical acclaim. But did she get nominated, NO. Why? She couldn’t even sell 10k the first week. Chris did. It was a big enough number that made people pay attention, which caused people to listen and caused him to earn the nomination.
|
|
|
Post by The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 on Mar 10, 2019 14:18:49 GMT -5
Ok, the thing is, there are TWO different arguments going on here and you're treating as if both of them where supporting the same point. They aren't. First, this "if quality is all that matters" argument was never our point at all. We know that's not the reality (e.g. Jason winning this award). Our point is that we feel like quality should be what matters the most (knowing it's a subjective concept and all). That's the point of view from those who are unhappy with Jason getting this honor instead of someone who put out high quality work throughout the past 10 years despite not having the same numbers as Aldean. Now, there's this second argument happening about Stapleton's "sales" being an important part of the equation that resulted in his big wins back on 2015. I'm not sure how or why this was brought up in the first place as it doesn't support any point being defended here. Of course sales helps any artist getting relevance... it's a pretty obvious point. We just disagreed with your statement because when you used "sales" in the context of it being a element working in favor of Stapleton that year, it came off as if his sales were substantial enough to put him in front of his competition (for nominations or wins), which just didn't make much sense considering he was by far the least commercially successful artist in all line-ups he competed in that year, which made it obvious that the quality of his work spoke loudly for him than sales that year.
This is pointless. But i will try one more time. If you think quality is all that matters, the award shows wouldn’t exist. You have to have some consumer interest. You have to give credit to what people are listening to, and buying. Take away radio if you want. That’s fine, I agree they are biased towards women. But let’s look at what people are buying, paying to see or choosing to stream. Jason gets the W there. These awards can’t be solely based on quality. That is all I am trying to say. Miranda would win over Jason based on quality, but when you are talking about a HUGE award, what the consumers have chosen to consume HAS to come into play. And the consumers have consistently chosen to pick Jason over Miranda. The sales helped him get noticed. Absolutely. They got his name out there. And then, when he makes the final five, and other people listen, then he can get the votes based on merit. Ashley, as we have discussed had a ton of critical acclaim. But did she get nominated, NO. Why? She couldn’t even sell 10k the first week. Chris did. It was a big enough number that made people pay attention, which caused people to listen and caused him to earn the nomination.
Well, I guess this is pointless indeed
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 15:59:02 GMT -5
Ok, the thing is, there are TWO different arguments going on here and you're treating as if both of them where supporting the same point. They aren't. First, this "if quality is all that matters" argument was never our point at all. We know that's not the reality (e.g. Jason winning this award). Our point is that we feel like quality should be what matters the most (knowing it's a subjective concept and all). That's the point of view from those who are unhappy with Jason getting this honor instead of someone who put out high quality work throughout the past 10 years despite not having the same numbers as Aldean. Now, there's this second argument happening about Stapleton's "sales" being an important part of the equation that resulted in his big wins back on 2015. I'm not sure how or why this was brought up in the first place as it doesn't support any point being defended here. Of course sales helps any artist getting relevance... it's a pretty obvious point. We just disagreed with your statement because when you used "sales" in the context of it being a element working in favor of Stapleton that year, it came off as if his sales were substantial enough to put him in front of his competition (for nominations or wins), which just didn't make much sense considering he was by far the least commercially successful artist in all line-ups he competed in that year, which made it obvious that the quality of his work spoke loudly for him than sales that year.
If you think quality is all that matters, the award shows wouldn’t exist. This is hilarious because really the exact opposite of this is true. The whole point of awards shows is to reward quality, because if awards were given based on numerical data, there would literally be no point to handing them out at all. Like, why would they even need to bother ever handing out an Album of the Year award if it automatically went to whatever record sold the most in the eligibility period, for instance. Everyone at home who has access to the Internet could figure out who won any of the awards before they were presented. You are literally making my point for me. Ashley McBryde had a great critically acclaimed album that could have been nominated in this awards. What did she not have? SALES. She sold a third of the albums that Stapleton did in the first week. Did she get a nomination for album? Nope. Sure didn’t. She was literally just nominated for a Grammy Award for her album and at the upcoming ACM Awards she's a nominee for Female Artist of the Year despite not making even a fraction of the sales impact that Kelsea Ballerini made in the same time period and who was passed over in the same category. Whether she was nominated for the album at the ACMs is pretty meaningless at this point considering she got in for an even bigger award over Kelsea Ballerini who based on your metrics, should've been nominated instead because she had the "SALES." Also, this seems to have gotten lost in the argument, but the point is that Chris Stapleton won awards like Album and Male Vocalist of the Year before he even had a hit single on the radio and his album hadn't sold *that* well. He even, ironically, beat Jason Aldean's album out for the Album award. Like The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 said, there's two things going on right now and there's been a lot of line-blurring done in the midst of the discussion, but the root of me even bringing Chris Stapleton -- among others -- up in the first place is to prove that the numbers are not what the ACMs use as the primary criteria for most of their awards, or else FGL would literally never lose Vocal Duo to anyone else, Carrie Underwood would win every Female award, Chris Stapleton wouldn't have gotten Male Vocalist 6 months after his debut album came out w/o any radio play over artists like Blake Shelton, Luke Bryan, and Dierks Bentley who have all been consistently major stars in the genre for years prior to the 2015 CMAs. Jason Aldean is being rewarded based on his radio and touring success and I've already acknowledged that I understand and am not surprised by their decision, but it is not clear cut in any way that he was the most deserving or best choice they could've made considering all factors.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 16:11:16 GMT -5
If you think quality is all that matters, the award shows wouldn’t exist. This is hilarious because really the exact opposite of this is true. The whole point of awards shows is to reward quality, because if awards were given based on numerical data, there would literally be no point to handing them out at all. Like, why would they even need to bother ever handing out an Album of the Year award if it automatically went to whatever record sold the most in the eligibility period, for instance. Everyone at home who has access to the Internet could figure out who won any of the awards before they were presented. You are literally making my point for me. Ashley McBryde had a great critically acclaimed album that could have been nominated in this awards. What did she not have? SALES. She sold a third of the albums that Stapleton did in the first week. Did she get a nomination for album? Nope. Sure didn’t. She was literally just nominated for a Grammy Award for her album and at the upcoming ACM Awards she's a nominee for Female Artist of the Year despite not making even a fraction of the sales impact that Kelsea Ballerini made in the same time period and who was passed over in the same category. Whether she was nominated for the album at the ACMs is pretty meaningless at this point considering she got in for an even bigger award over Kelsea Ballerini who based on your metrics, should've been nominated instead because she had the "SALES." Also, this seems to have gotten lost in the argument, but the point is that Chris Stapleton won awards like Album and Male Vocalist of the Year before he even had a hit single on the radio and his album hadn't sold *that* well. He even, ironically, beat Jason Aldean's album out for the Album award. Like The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 said, there's two things going on right now and there's been a lot of line-blurring done in the midst of the discussion, but the root of me even bringing Chris Stapleton -- among others -- up in the first place is to prove that the numbers are not what the ACMs use as the primary criteria for most of their awards, or else FGL would literally never lose Vocal Duo to anyone else, Carrie Underwood would win every Female award, Chris Stapleton wouldn't have gotten Male Vocalist 6 months after his debut album came out w/o any radio play over artists like Blake Shelton, Luke Bryan, and Dierks Bentley who have all been consistently major stars in the genre for years prior to the 2015 CMAs. Jason Aldean is being rewarded based on his radio and touring success and I've already acknowledged that I understand and am not surprised by their decision, but it is not clear cut in any way that he was the most deserving or best choice they could've made considering all factors. Let’s not get in another argument that’s dumb. Me and you both know Ashley got in because she’s on a huge corporate label. It’s all about voting blocks for these awards. Ashley has them, Kelsea does not. Kelsea is never going to win another award at the ACMs and CMAs until she gets on a major or has a huge career defining/crossover song. There is nothing Kelsea can do. It has nothing to do with reviews or critical success; she simply doesn’t have the votes. Warner has more votes. They have literally only one female to get behind, she gets nominated. Neither one of them have any shot at winning regardless of who actually got nominated. You have to sell to get nominated for these awards. Once you get into the top five, then it becomes more about quality. But you don’t get nominated without selling. The Grammys are an absolute outlier and don’t fall in these rules. Their nomination process is totally different. Neither one of you are listening. You are cutting the parts of the message that make you feel warm and fuzzy. I’m done arguing about this. You have my opinion, I have mine, we don’t agree and that’s fine. Moving on.
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 16:27:02 GMT -5
This is hilarious because really the exact opposite of this is true. The whole point of awards shows is to reward quality, because if awards were given based on numerical data, there would literally be no point to handing them out at all. Like, why would they even need to bother ever handing out an Album of the Year award if it automatically went to whatever record sold the most in the eligibility period, for instance. Everyone at home who has access to the Internet could figure out who won any of the awards before they were presented. She was literally just nominated for a Grammy Award for her album and at the upcoming ACM Awards she's a nominee for Female Artist of the Year despite not making even a fraction of the sales impact that Kelsea Ballerini made in the same time period and who was passed over in the same category. Whether she was nominated for the album at the ACMs is pretty meaningless at this point considering she got in for an even bigger award over Kelsea Ballerini who based on your metrics, should've been nominated instead because she had the "SALES." Also, this seems to have gotten lost in the argument, but the point is that Chris Stapleton won awards like Album and Male Vocalist of the Year before he even had a hit single on the radio and his album hadn't sold *that* well. He even, ironically, beat Jason Aldean's album out for the Album award. Like The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷 said, there's two things going on right now and there's been a lot of line-blurring done in the midst of the discussion, but the root of me even bringing Chris Stapleton -- among others -- up in the first place is to prove that the numbers are not what the ACMs use as the primary criteria for most of their awards, or else FGL would literally never lose Vocal Duo to anyone else, Carrie Underwood would win every Female award, Chris Stapleton wouldn't have gotten Male Vocalist 6 months after his debut album came out w/o any radio play over artists like Blake Shelton, Luke Bryan, and Dierks Bentley who have all been consistently major stars in the genre for years prior to the 2015 CMAs. Jason Aldean is being rewarded based on his radio and touring success and I've already acknowledged that I understand and am not surprised by their decision, but it is not clear cut in any way that he was the most deserving or best choice they could've made considering all factors. Let’s not get in another argument that’s dumb. Me and you both know Ashley got in because she’s on a huge corporate label. It’s all about voting blocks for these awards. Ashley has them, Kelsea does not. Kelsea is never going to win another award at the ACMs and CMAs until she gets on a major or has a huge career defining/crossover song. There is nothing Kelsea can do. It has nothing to do with reviews or critical success; she simply doesn’t have the votes. Warner has more votes. They have literally only one female to get behind, she gets nominated. Neither one of them have any shot at winning regardless of who actually got nominated. You have to sell to get nominated for these awards. Once you get into the top five, then it becomes more about quality. But you don’t get nominated without selling. The Grammys are an absolute outlier and don’t fall in these rules. Their nomination process is totally different. Neither one of you are listening. You are cutting the parts of the message that make you feel warm and fuzzy. I’m done arguing about this. You have my opinion, I have mine, we don’t agree and that’s fine. Moving on. 1) So why is it that you acknowledge that labels are the reason why Kelsea Ballerini wasn't nominated (even though she had been consistently included in that category for the past several years proving that Black River had no problem getting her in there previously...), but were saying Lori McKenna was passed over for awards due only to a lack of sales? I'm the one who brought up the label backing as a reason for why artists get nominated at the awards shows before you had mentioned it here at all, lol. 2) If you have to sell to be nominated for these awards, which you had just admitted Ashley McBryde failed to do, then how is she in there over Kelsea Ballerini? You can't make a statement that Ashley didn't have "SALES" and then follow-up it up by saying it is necessary for nominations in the awards. 3) I'm listening just fine. You're just going back and forth between different arguments and it's hard to follow. This has morphed into something that has nothing to do with Jason Aldean anymore. Again, I see why he is being given the honor of Artist of the Decade, but considering a number of other posters besides myself responded saying that there were other equally or possibly even more deserving artists who better represent the genre with higher quality material, and considering the past recipients of the award, it was clearly not such a cut-and-dry decision for most that Jason had the best decade in country music. It was worth discussing. Thanks for your input.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 16:35:46 GMT -5
Let’s not get in another argument that’s dumb. Me and you both know Ashley got in because she’s on a huge corporate label. It’s all about voting blocks for these awards. Ashley has them, Kelsea does not. Kelsea is never going to win another award at the ACMs and CMAs until she gets on a major or has a huge career defining/crossover song. There is nothing Kelsea can do. It has nothing to do with reviews or critical success; she simply doesn’t have the votes. Warner has more votes. They have literally only one female to get behind, she gets nominated. Neither one of them have any shot at winning regardless of who actually got nominated. You have to sell to get nominated for these awards. Once you get into the top five, then it becomes more about quality. But you don’t get nominated without selling. The Grammys are an absolute outlier and don’t fall in these rules. Their nomination process is totally different. Neither one of you are listening. You are cutting the parts of the message that make you feel warm and fuzzy. I’m done arguing about this. You have my opinion, I have mine, we don’t agree and that’s fine. Moving on. 1) So why is it that you acknowledge that labels are the reason why Kelsea Ballerini wasn't nominated (even though she had been consistently included in that category for the past several years proving that Black River had no problem getting her in there previously...), but were saying Lori McKenna was passed over for awards due only to a lack of sales? I'm the one who brought up the label backing as a reason for why artists get nominated at the awards shows before you had mentioned it here at all, lol. 2) If you have to sell to be nominated for these awards, which you had just admitted Ashley McBryde failed to do, then how is she in there over Kelsea Ballerini? You can't make a statement that Ashley didn't have "SALES" and then follow-up it up by saying it is necessary for nominations in the awards. 3) I'm listening just fine. You're just going back and forth between different arguments and it's hard to follow. This has morphed into something that has nothing to do with Jason Aldean anymore. Again, I see why he is being given the honor of Artist of the Decade, but considering a number of other posters besides myself responded saying that there were other equally or possibly even more deserving artists who better represent the genre with higher quality material, and considering the past recipients of the award, it was clearly not such a cut-and-dry decision for most that Jason had the best decade in country music. It was worth discussing. Thanks for your input. 1) I never said it wasn’t. Ever. So.... 2) Female Vocalist is different than Album. Unless you just morphed them into same award? 3) Agreed that it wasn’t cut and dry; i think we disagree on who those artists were, and what metrics she be more heavily weighed. You obviously think critical success is more important; i think consumer habits should be. It was worth discuss. No hard feelings.
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 16:51:28 GMT -5
1) So why is it that you acknowledge that labels are the reason why Kelsea Ballerini wasn't nominated (even though she had been consistently included in that category for the past several years proving that Black River had no problem getting her in there previously...), but were saying Lori McKenna was passed over for awards due only to a lack of sales? I'm the one who brought up the label backing as a reason for why artists get nominated at the awards shows before you had mentioned it here at all, lol. 2) If you have to sell to be nominated for these awards, which you had just admitted Ashley McBryde failed to do, then how is she in there over Kelsea Ballerini? You can't make a statement that Ashley didn't have "SALES" and then follow-up it up by saying it is necessary for nominations in the awards. 3) I'm listening just fine. You're just going back and forth between different arguments and it's hard to follow. This has morphed into something that has nothing to do with Jason Aldean anymore. Again, I see why he is being given the honor of Artist of the Decade, but considering a number of other posters besides myself responded saying that there were other equally or possibly even more deserving artists who better represent the genre with higher quality material, and considering the past recipients of the award, it was clearly not such a cut-and-dry decision for most that Jason had the best decade in country music. It was worth discussing. Thanks for your input. 1) I never said it wasn’t. Ever. So.... 2) Female Vocalist is different than Album. Unless you just morphed them into same award? 1) Never said what wasn't? You said Lori McKenna didn't have sales and wasn't nominated for an award due to that. You also said Kelsea Ballerini lost out on a nod in the Female category due to Black River being an indie label. Those are the two things that I was addressing in that part of my post, and both of them were things you said. 2) It is, but Ashley's album wasn't nominated while she herself was, and being in the Female category over Kelsea Ballerini was more surprising because she didn't have the sales to get in the album category per your reasoning, but somehow it was enough to be nominated in a bigger award? Kelsea had a leg up on her in everything other than critical acclaim. I know your explanation for that was the label backing to help Ashley's case vs. Black River for Kelea, but... it's not like Black River had struggled to get her nods in that category previously.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 17:01:20 GMT -5
1) I never said it wasn’t. Ever. So.... 2) Female Vocalist is different than Album. Unless you just morphed them into same award? 1) Never said what wasn't? You said Lori McKenna didn't have sales and wasn't nominated for an award due to that. You also said Kelsea Ballerini lost out on a nod in the Female category due to Black River being an indie label. Those are the two things that I was addressing in that part of my post, and both of them were things you said. 2) It is, but Ashley's album wasn't nominated while she herself was, and being in the Female category over Kelsea Ballerini was more surprising because she didn't have the sales to get in the album category per your reasoning, but somehow it was enough to be nominated in a bigger award? Kelsea had a leg up on her in everything other than critical acclaim. I know your explanation for that was the label backing to help Ashley's case vs. Black River for Kelea, but... it's not like Black River had struggled to get her nods in that category previously. 1. I never said that label politics don’t also come into play. I never said that Lori didn’t solely lose out on the award due to no sales. But I said it plays a part. 2. Because this is the first time the Warner block has had a female they can actually get behind. Who was Warner gonna nominate before Ashley came along? RaeLynn? They didn’t have a female before that met the critieria so of course Kelsea got in. Now they do, they put their votes together and got her in.
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 17:14:50 GMT -5
I will say in the 2016 to 2018 stretch Kelsea Ballerini was a given to be nominated as the choices for females were so sparse. In 2016 Maren Morris was way too new to be nominated, and besides the big 2 (Miranda Lambert and Carrie Underwood) there wasn't a lot of established females. So of course Kelsea Ballerini got nominated.
In 2017, Maren Morris took an automatic spot by then but Kelsea Ballerini was still at least a solid third to fourth. In 2018 Kelsea Ballerini had a solid year to be nominated, but this past year we have Kacey Musgraves returning big, Carly Pearce gaining more traction (despite her not even being nominated), add in the Ashley McBryde love with critical acclaim and major label backing especially with Kelsea Ballerini having "I Hate Love Songs" underperform really helped push the tide towards Ashley McBryde.
Really was a perfect storm for Ashley McBryde to sneak into the fifth spot over Kelsea Ballerini. Even if I think that if their was a 6th option they probably would have gone with Carly Pearce over Kelsea Ballerini since Carly Pearce is on Big Machine.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 17:20:39 GMT -5
I will say in the 2016 to 2018 stretch Kelsea Ballerini was a given to be nominated as the choices for females were so sparse. In 2016 Maren Morris was way too new to be nominated, and besides the big 2 (Miranda Lambert and Carrie Underwood) there wasn't a lot of established females. So of course Kelsea Ballerini got nominated. In 2017, Maren Morris took an automatic spot by then but Kelsea Ballerini was still at least a solid third to fourth. In 2018 Kelsea Ballerini had a solid year to be nominated, but this past year we have Kacey Musgraves returning big, Carly Pearce gaining more traction (despite her not even being nominated), add in the Ashley McBryde love with critical acclaim and major label backing especially with Kelsea Ballerini having "I Hate Love Songs" underperform really helped push the tide towards Ashley McBryde. Really was a perfect storm for Ashley McBryde to sneak into the fifth spot over Kelsea Ballerini. Even if I think that if their was a 6th option they probably would have gone with Carly Pearce over Kelsea Ballerini since Carly Pearce is on Big Machine. Exactly this. UMG gets two. They chose Carrie & Kacey. So Lauren is screwed. Sony gets two. They chose Miranda & Maren. Warner is the next biggest block. Before this year, they had no females. Now they do, so Ashley gets in. Big Machine is the next biggest block so Carly was likely next. Kelsea was probably seventh. Warner chose to throw their support behind Dan & Shay (in part, because of SALES), so Ashley had no shot in Album. But she did in Female cause it was a way easier category to get in, so that’s where the push was.
|
|
Kanenrá:ke
Moderator
ethereal eternal nonexistent
she left her briquettes out in typical heaux fashion.
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 12,383
Staff
|
Post by Kanenrá:ke on Mar 10, 2019 17:35:56 GMT -5
Just going to slide in here and say that I would've picked Luke Bryan for the award personally based on how I interpret the criteria. I would've had Carrie Underwood as my #2, Kenny Chesney as #3, Jason as my #4 and Keith Urban as my #5. But really any of those 5 could've gotten it and I wouldn't have thought they didn't deserve it. I don't think Miranda had enough overall success to pull a win on this one and I'd say the same about Eric Church. They'd both be in the next tier down for me.
Despite my love for him George Strait remains the least deserving recipient of the award. (Though I would've had him win it in Garth's place in 1998 so...)
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 17:39:21 GMT -5
Kanenrá:ke I am assuming if you had a 6th it'd be Blake Shelton? Or is he in the same tier as Miranda Lambert and Eric Church?
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 17:40:38 GMT -5
1) Never said what wasn't? You said Lori McKenna didn't have sales and wasn't nominated for an award due to that. You also said Kelsea Ballerini lost out on a nod in the Female category due to Black River being an indie label. Those are the two things that I was addressing in that part of my post, and both of them were things you said. 2) It is, but Ashley's album wasn't nominated while she herself was, and being in the Female category over Kelsea Ballerini was more surprising because she didn't have the sales to get in the album category per your reasoning, but somehow it was enough to be nominated in a bigger award? Kelsea had a leg up on her in everything other than critical acclaim. I know your explanation for that was the label backing to help Ashley's case vs. Black River for Kelea, but... it's not like Black River had struggled to get her nods in that category previously. 1. I never said that label politics don’t also come into play. I never said that Lori didn’t solely lose out on the award due to no sales. But I said it plays a part. 2. Because this is the first time the Warner block has had a female they can actually get behind. Who was Warner gonna nominate before Ashley came along? RaeLynn? They didn’t have a female before that met the critieria so of course Kelsea got in. Now they do, they put their votes together and got her in. Well that may not be what you meant, but it is actually what you said. /shrug Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. And in regards to your other point, Warner could've easily pushed RaeLynn, Ashley Monroe, or Brandy Clark (and I'm sure they did at the time). Ashley McBryde is no more critically acclaimed than Brandy Clark or Ashley Monroe, and RaeLynn has had limited commercial success but she sold better than Ashley has and "Love Triangle" did a little better than "Dahlonega" did. Those years may have had stiffer competition that kept them from getting in, but there is no sound logical explanation for Kelsea being left out of the Female category this year either when she had one of the best years out of any of the females at radio, especially considering your arguments earlier that radio numbers are more important than critical acclaim. The label backing is a factor but going off that then Black River would've never gotten her any nods in the category at all because there's enough females on the bigger labels to have taken her spot every other year that she got in as well. Ashley lucked out this year and slipped in somehow because the industry seems to really like her in ways that they don't for a lot of other new females, but it's not the first time someone has come along that could've theoretically stolen a spot from Kelsea.
|
|
Kanenrá:ke
Moderator
ethereal eternal nonexistent
she left her briquettes out in typical heaux fashion.
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 12,383
Staff
|
Post by Kanenrá:ke on Mar 10, 2019 17:49:38 GMT -5
Kanenrá:ke I am assuming if you had a 6th it'd be Blake Shelton? Or is he in the same tier as Miranda Lambert and Eric Church? Oh yeah Blake lol Completely forgot about him. He'd be in the next tier with Miranda and Eric.
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 18:07:11 GMT -5
Ok I am going through each of 2016 through 2018 and come up with alternative nominations for female for the ACMs that doesn't include Kelsea Ballerini. So bear with me.
2016: Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Kacey Musgraves, Cam, Jana Kramer (Cam had "Burning House" and Jana Kramer had "I Got The Boy")
2017: Carrie Underwood, Maren Morris, Miranda Lambert, Lauren Alaina, Jennifer Nettles?
2018: Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Maren Morris, Lauren Alaina, and Carly Pearce.
I genuinely couldn't come up with a fourth and fifth replacement for 2017 and had to really stretch that out. That year and I'd say 2018, Kelsea Ballerini's radio success and sales were too big to ignore so there didn't even need to be any label backing, Kelsea Ballerini was getting in regardless.
The problem is that her overall year in 2018 was such an underwhelming year for Kelsea Ballerini, "Legends" dropped like a hot potato after going #1 and sold piss poor during its chart run, and "I Hate Love Songs" also didn't go anywhere on the charts. This past year was kind of easy for the ACMs to ignore Kelsea Ballerini since it was such a lukewarm year for her and her momentum cooled off considerably.
While Ashley McBryde had a worse radio performance year, I think the award industry and the industry as a whole looks at her as kind of an underdog especially given how long she has been in the business. Hence the Female nomination, having Warner backing her helps as well.
|
|
.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
|
Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 10, 2019 18:23:33 GMT -5
Ok I am going through each of 2016 through 2018 and come up with alternative nominations for female for the ACMs that doesn't include Kelsea Ballerini. So bear with me. 2016: Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Kacey Musgraves, Cam, Jana Kramer (Cam had "Burning House" and Jana Kramer had "I Got The Boy") 2017: Carrie Underwood, Maren Morris, Miranda Lambert, Lauren Alaina, Jennifer Nettles? 2018: Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Maren Morris, Lauren Alaina, and Carly Pearce. I genuinely couldn't come up with a fourth and fifth replacement for 2017 and had to really stretch that out. That year and I'd say 2018, Kelsea Ballerini's radio success and sales were too big to ignore so there didn't even need to be any label backing, Kelsea Ballerini was getting in regardless. The problem is that her overall year in 2018 was such an underwhelming year for Kelsea Ballerini, "Legends" dropped like a hot potato after going #1 and sold piss poor during its chart run, and "I Hate Love Songs" also didn't go anywhere on the charts. This past year was kind of easy for the ACMs to ignore Kelsea Ballerini since it was such a lukewarm year for her and her momentum cooled off considerably. While Ashley McBryde had a worse radio performance year, I think the award industry and the industry as a whole looks at her as kind of an underdog especially given how long she has been in the business. Hence the Female nomination, having Warner backing her helps as well. I think this kinda proves that Ashley McBryde got lucky and slid in there because the industry likes her better than the average female and less to do with record label backing because Warner failed to get nods for Brandy Clark, Ashley Monroe, RaeLynn, and Jana Kramer (forgot about her but she actually had most radio success out of any of them) in years past, while Black River had no problem getting her in the previous few years. I think Kelsea missing out this year is crazy even though she had her first misstep with "I Hate Love Songs," but compared to the other nominees, she still had one of the best radio presences, had a crossover pop hit, and had an album that was relatively new that sold decently. I feel like she was too big to ignore this year too, and that's coming from someone who thought Ashley McBryde had the best album of 2018. I love her and would've liked to see her album get nominated like it was at the Grammys, but she had little business being in Female category imo, lol.
|
|
bigfan101
6x Platinum Member
I am Sara Evans other fan.
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 6,673
|
Post by bigfan101 on Mar 10, 2019 18:24:18 GMT -5
1. I never said that label politics don’t also come into play. I never said that Lori didn’t solely lose out on the award due to no sales. But I said it plays a part. 2. Because this is the first time the Warner block has had a female they can actually get behind. Who was Warner gonna nominate before Ashley came along? RaeLynn? They didn’t have a female before that met the critieria so of course Kelsea got in. Now they do, they put their votes together and got her in. Well that may not be what you meant, but it is actually what you said. /shrug Again, to use the argument I just did with indulge, if quality is all that matters, where is Lori McKenna. I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree that her music is fantastic. Guess what? She didn’t sell s**t, so no award nominations. Chris got on a major, sold, and got nominations. And in regards to your other point, Warner could've easily pushed RaeLynn, Ashley Monroe, or Brandy Clark (and I'm sure they did at the time). Ashley McBryde is no more critically acclaimed than Brandy Clark or Ashley Monroe, and RaeLynn has had limited commercial success but she sold better than Ashley has and "Love Triangle" did a little better than "Dahlonega" did. Those years may have had stiffer competition that kept them from getting in, but there is no sound logical explanation for Kelsea being left out of the Female category this year either when she had one of the best years out of any of the females at radio, especially considering your arguments earlier that radio numbers are more important than critical acclaim. The label backing is a factor but going off that then Black River would've never gotten her any nods in the category at all because there's enough females on the bigger labels to have taken her spot every other year that she got in as well. Ashley lucked out this year and slipped in somehow because the industry seems to really like her in ways that they don't for a lot of other new females, but it's not the first time someone has come along that could've theoretically stolen a spot from Kelsea. I’m not arguing with you about something else. If you want an education on the politics that go on behind the scenes for these awards, let me know. Warner never pushed for awards for any of the ladies that you mentioned, because they never would have gotten the support that they needed from the other voters. At that point, it is better for them to throw support behind Kelsea because it is better for them if she has a “shot to win” and pulls off a miracle then if they get beat again by the labels they call “competition”. This year, they had someone that made an impact on charts, and critics liked her (which Brandy, Ashley, RaeLynn had - brandy and Ashley had critics, RaeLynn had “chart success.) so they threw their support behind her, although Kelsea was the more deserving nominee. Which is why Miranda will be nominated to the end of time. Also why you saw random LeeAnn nominations when she wasn’t doing shit, because the majors “get their slots”. It’s an absolute shit system, and it is highly unfair, but that is how it works behind the scenes....🤷🏻♂️
|
|
raylatch98
7x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2018
Posts: 7,881
Pronouns: He/Him/His
|
Post by raylatch98 on Mar 10, 2019 18:53:44 GMT -5
Okay I don't think the crossover airplay or songs not promoted to country radio with country artists on them, means shit to any of the country award shows. They probably look at stuff through a country lense and that's it.
But just like I don't think the CMA Awards or ACMs cared about "The Middle" by Maren Morris when nominating they probably didn't or don't care about Kelsea Ballerini crossover success either since neither were (thankfully) pushed to the country format at all.
I do think the label backing Ashley McBryde does help. Since at the end of the day, Warner Bros has more clout in the industry than Black River.
I think Kelsea Ballerini getting in 2016 through 2018 was more to do with lack of competition than anything else.
While there was no strong radio support for women last year in 2018 (unless you were a female pop singer) besides Maren Morris, all of Carrie Underwood, Kacey Musgraves, Ashley McBryde, Kelsea Ballerini, and Carly Pearce all blend together last year somewhat with either average radio support (Kelsea Ballerini, Carrie Underwood, Carly Pearce), or critical acclaim (Ashley McBryde and Kacey Musgraves) as such when you have 2 guarnteed spots locked up in Maren Morris and since she has won it so much Miranda Lambert, there is only three spots left and Carrie Underwood is a virtual lock since well, she is Carrie Underwood. Fourth slot goes to Kacey Musgraves due to acclaim and all the hype from the Grammys probably helped as well.
That leaves Ashley McBryde or Kelsea Ballerini where you either go for solid but lower radio support in Kelsea Ballerini or critical acclaim in Ashley McBryde, at that point it's a coin flip and since Ashley McBryde has the label with more clout in Nashville she has the edge over Kelsea Ballerini.
This is all I am saying because at this point I feel like this discussion has gone in so many circles and so off topic.
|
|