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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 22, 2019 8:47:31 GMT -5
nickd if I were you, I'd be looking at how I could get this information to Billboard. You've put a whole lot of time and effort into compiling these lists and you deserve to be rewarded for it. I especially think it'll be useful to Billboard because they now have have charts for songwriters and producers. This could help them compile a list of the greatest songwriters and producers of all time. I'm sure fans would be interested in seeing where their faves place.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 22, 2019 12:18:21 GMT -5
nickd if I were you, I'd be looking at how I could get this information to Billboard. You've put a whole lot of time and effort into compiling these lists and you deserve to be rewarded for it. I especially think it'll be useful to Billboard because they now have have charts for songwriters and producers. This could help them compile a list of the greatest songwriters and producers of all time. I'm sure fans would be interested in seeing where their faves place. You don't think they have the songwriter and producer info in their database for older songs? Obviously it would be great if they compiled the list but I assumed they haven't done it because they didn't think there was enough interest rather than not having the data.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 22, 2019 12:49:46 GMT -5
nickd if I were you, I'd be looking at how I could get this information to Billboard. You've put a whole lot of time and effort into compiling these lists and you deserve to be rewarded for it. I especially think it'll be useful to Billboard because they now have have charts for songwriters and producers. This could help them compile a list of the greatest songwriters and producers of all time. I'm sure fans would be interested in seeing where their faves place. You don't think they have the songwriter and producer info in their database for older songs? Obviously it would be great if they compiled the list but I assumed they haven't done it because they didn't think there was enough interest rather than not having the data. I think they have a forumla that combines th points for songwriter and producer of the week points, but I don't think they have it broken down like you. For instance, I don't think they could tell us historically, how many total points Drake as a songwriter, but I think they could tell us how many points he has as a songwriter if he drops a new song tomorrow. If they had all the points for every artist historically, they would have done lists for the greatest producers/songwriters of all time.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 22, 2019 14:14:28 GMT -5
Dallas Austin Points: 16425
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 22, 2019 19:25:48 GMT -5
Bob Gaudio Points: 15374 Short Shorts was not a Hot 100 hit, it came out in early 1958 when only the "Top 100" chart existed, so it's not being included in his total points.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 23, 2019 0:32:40 GMT -5
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Post by nickd on Nov 23, 2019 2:52:30 GMT -5
It would be really cool to see the breakdown by songwriter for songwriting royalties on websites of ASCAP, BMI, etc, but you do still see the breakdown according to how much each publishing company controls, which is cool.
For example, with Crazy In Love, ASCAP only controls 12.5%, they represent Beyonce and Jay-Z, while Eugene Record and Rich Harrison, the two other co-writers, are represented by BMI who control 87.5% - a very uneven split, since that means the BMI songwriters each own a 7x bigger slice of the pie than what Beyonce and Jay-Z own.
On Blazed, ASCAP who represents Ariana Grande only owns 5%, despite the song having only 3 writers, so she gets a much much smaller slice there too. Maxine Ashley has 10%, and Pharrell Williams has 85% on that song. That's the way it works on all the Pharrell songs on Sweetener, Ariana gets 5% and the other co-writers get 95% (which often means 95% for Pharrell since there's often no-one else).
Selena also seems to have only 5% ownership on most of her songs that she has writing credits on. I suppose that's still better than the 1% of Work that Rihanna owns though.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 23, 2019 17:56:00 GMT -5
John "Cougar" Mellencamp Points: 24602
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 23, 2019 23:38:12 GMT -5
Isaac Hayes Points: 10905 kierz7
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Post by nickd on Nov 24, 2019 2:05:12 GMT -5
Sonny Bono Points: 11019
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Post by shayonce on Nov 24, 2019 3:03:53 GMT -5
It would be really cool to see the breakdown by songwriter for songwriting royalties on websites of ASCAP, BMI, etc, but you do still see the breakdown according to how much each publishing company controls, which is cool. For example, with Crazy In Love, ASCAP only controls 12.5%, they represent Beyonce and Jay-Z, while Eugene Record and Rich Harrison, the two other co-writers, are represented by BMI who control 87.5% - a very uneven split, since that means the BMI songwriters each own a 7x bigger slice of the pie than what Beyonce and Jay-Z own. yeah. it's shame they don't have full list. I used to go through publisher's website to see their breakdown, some of them still have it. btw, Sampling cost lots of publishing. usually 50% of publishing/credit. some songs with multiple sampling would be like 7~80% ish. lol
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 24, 2019 8:17:29 GMT -5
It would be really cool to see the breakdown by songwriter for songwriting royalties on websites of ASCAP, BMI, etc, but you do still see the breakdown according to how much each publishing company controls, which is cool. For example, with Crazy In Love, ASCAP only controls 12.5%, they represent Beyonce and Jay-Z, while Eugene Record and Rich Harrison, the two other co-writers, are represented by BMI who control 87.5% - a very uneven split, since that means the BMI songwriters each own a 7x bigger slice of the pie than what Beyonce and Jay-Z own. yeah. it's shame they don't have full list. I used to go through publisher's website to see their breakdown, some of them still have it. btw, Sampling cost lots of publishing. usually 50% of publishing/credit. some songs with multiple sampling would be like 7~80% ish. lol Yeah, it's possible the Chi Lites sample on Crazy In Love is why JayZ and Beyonce own such a low percentage of the songwriting on it. Loyalty seems like it gave up most of the songwriting percentage for the 24k magic sample too.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 24, 2019 16:51:54 GMT -5
John Bongiovi (Jon Bon Jovi) Points: 18268
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Post by nickd on Nov 24, 2019 17:27:03 GMT -5
Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) Points: 13896
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Post by nickd on Nov 24, 2019 19:56:26 GMT -5
Justin Bieber Points: 9976 (bolded songs still charting)
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Post by nickd on Nov 25, 2019 1:28:22 GMT -5
Van McCoy Points: 8881
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Post by nickd on Nov 25, 2019 14:02:56 GMT -5
Tony Hatch Points: 14171
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 25, 2019 15:33:47 GMT -5
Double checked Akon's numbers, they barely changed, from 17404 to 17411 points. thegreatdivine
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 25, 2019 18:56:39 GMT -5
Fats Domino Points: 8215 He would have a roughly equal number of points from the pre-Hot 100 days. Dave Bartholomew should be around 7k points.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 26, 2019 0:14:26 GMT -5
Carl Sigman Points: 7584 rockgolf paulhaney He has at least as many points from the pre-Hot 100 era though.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 26, 2019 15:22:16 GMT -5
Howard Greenfield Points: 20565 edit: Another Sleepless Night by Jimmy Clanton should be 710 points and Breaking Up Is Hard To Do by Neil Sedaka should be 2866 paulhaney - Neil Sedaka's favorite co-writer did pretty well too
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 26, 2019 18:45:59 GMT -5
Adam Feeney (Frank Dukes) Points: 6507
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Post by nickd on Nov 27, 2019 2:34:11 GMT -5
Allen Toussaint Points: 11446
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Post by rockgolf on Nov 27, 2019 9:18:07 GMT -5
What's up with listing I Like It Like That 3 times for Toussaint but awarding zero points? I thought he co-wrote it with Chris Kenner. I'd always associated Toussaint with Lady Marmalade, but it turns out he was the producer (of the Labelle version), not the writer.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 27, 2019 11:44:44 GMT -5
What's up with listing I Like It Like That 3 times for Toussaint but awarding zero points? I thought he co-wrote it with Chris Kenner. I'd always associated Toussaint with Lady Marmalade, but it turns out he was the producer (of the Labelle version), not the writer. I listed it for transparency because I knew it might be a bit contentious. However according to BMI's repertoire only Kenner has writing credits. The sheet music and vinyls also seem to have Kenner listed as the only songwriter.
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Post by rockgolf on Nov 27, 2019 12:18:43 GMT -5
Weird.
43cat.com has labels of both the Dave Clark Five and the Loggins & Messina that list Toussaint as co-writer.
And it's would be very odd of records labels in those days to credit a Black creator when they didn't deserve it. More often it was the opposite.
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Post by nickd on Nov 27, 2019 15:19:26 GMT -5
Carole Bayer Sager Points: 14575
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Post by nickd on Nov 27, 2019 15:23:42 GMT -5
Weird. 43cat.com has labels of both the Dave Clark Five and the Loggins & Messina that list Toussaint as co-writer. And it's would be very odd of records labels in those days to credit a Black creator when they didn't deserve it. More often it was the opposite. Discogs lists Toussaint as the co-writer for part 2 but not part 1, even though part 2 is just part 1 with different arrangements rather than an actual second part to the song. I'm not familiar with the story behind the song but since he was the producer maybe he was credited as a songwriter by some sources because he was heavily involved in the musical arrangements?
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Post by rockgolf on Nov 27, 2019 16:08:23 GMT -5
Even the Allen Toussaint website is vague as to his involvement. He certainly produced the Kenner version. But it seems odd there isn't a definitive answer as to his songwriting contribution.
Just from the quality and instrumentation of the song, and how much better it did than anything else with Kenner's name on the credits, I'd lean toward believing he made at least some contribution.
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Post by nickd on Nov 28, 2019 1:44:20 GMT -5
Roy Orbison Points: 13021
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