G-Reg
Gold Member
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 764
|
Post by G-Reg on Jul 22, 2021 12:14:43 GMT -5
I'm loving the new music. "Solar Power" is giving me 70's folk rock mixed with 90's jam band vibes and a (very) shortened "Hey Jude" outro. I totally hear her channeling Joni Mitchell in "Stoned at the Nail Salon." So far she's giving me what Taylor is trying to do but hasn't clicked with me. I'm super excited for the album. Though I can see how the abrupt change is a bit jarring for some, and from her first album to this the style is totally different. Sorry - I’m gonna vent for a sec. This era is the whitest thing to come along since god knows when. From the guest vocalists - Clairo, Phoebe - to the VERY white music video, just not into this. Some people may come at me but it just feels a little tone def? I would love for her to work w someone like a Kamasi Washington or something? Dev Hynes? IDK - people talk s**t on Lana - and fairly so sometimes from her dumba** rants - but at least she works with diverse artists across the board. BTW, this song sounds like a B-side from Norman or Chemtrails. I’m bored. This is such a bizarre statement. Lorde is white. Sometimes white people do white s**t like making folk music.
|
|
theflying
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 2,936
|
Post by theflying on Jul 22, 2021 12:47:48 GMT -5
Does race really have to be dragged into every topic anymore? How is this relevant to her and her music? Uh, yeah it does. I’m not going to go into some essay on my issue here. I’m stating artists make a conscious decision to choose and agree who they work w. They are conscious of representation in their art and visuals. TBH, I have the most problem w the Solar Power music video. It’s just very white! It lacks cultural representation. The artists and visuals she has chosen to put out lack diversity. You can fight me on it - not trying to start one - Im just stating the obvious which I’ve noticed and my friends of color have noticed as well. You can try to discredit that. Im not coming for Lorde. Im just calling things out as I see them. Look…. You’re not *wrong*. It’s not about being “right” or “wrong”. You have a *point*. But it is also a fair point to remember this is a 24 year old from New Zealand. You, presumably, are from America. She’s released two songs from the project thus far - with only one being a music video. It feels like you’re hyper-rushing — almost in a reflexive way which is really characteristic of Twitter — to find something she isn’t doing “enough” of racially, viewed from your context as an American and American race issues. Yes, the video for Solar Power could’ve been filled with a rainbow of ethnicities as those of us who live in giant metropolitans are used to seeing in our every day world. But in being so reflexive in your criticism, it feels like you’re not really saying it entirely in good faith. Like, what is the end goal of your train of thought? So, the Solar Power music video is too white to your liking… and? Ultimately, it’s your choice to make mountains of stuff that is important to you. It deserves to be important to you. I guess I’m just saying, your perspective is a bit tinged on it being some sort of universal truth that she needs to be living up to, and feels a bit presumptuous as to her thought process, what she cares about, what she’s doing — it feels kind of absolutist based on very little. For example, her team of producers (which I have NOT researched so am happy to be wrong here) — I imagine they’re white, but that’s also because albums nowadays aren’t produced by a dozen people, they’re produced by like one or two. It is not Lorde’s *responsibility* to operate within American racial justice contexts *or else*.
|
|
|
Post by adamalterlago on Jul 22, 2021 13:07:24 GMT -5
Im guessing you’re white. I'm Hispanic, but that's irrelevant to my point. Now that you have nothing to deflect to, you have to argue why white artists should be obligated to emphasize on the race of the people they collaborate with. You’re missing my point - I think as an artist, especially one who has a huge fanbase and platform, it’s important to show inclusion in your work. I totally understand if she worked w Jack Antonoff who happens to be white to create the album. Fine. But artistically, looking at the artists you chose to feature alongside you, the dancers and actors you choose to put in your visuals, it’s disheartening to see no diversity. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s an awareness. Im not going to continue this convo bc i have to get to work. I know my opinion - and it’s shared by others - is valid. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is a little upsetting. Im not coming for Lorde, Im just stating something that was glaringly obvious.
|
|
Au$tin
Diamond Member
Pop Culture Guru
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 54,536
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his/him
|
Post by Au$tin on Jul 22, 2021 15:36:03 GMT -5
I'm struggling to understand why a musician has to be all inclusive and make that political statement all the time. Particularly one from New Zealand having to make a statement that matches your American view on race.
Inclusivity and diversity is important, yes, but it isn't necessary in every single piece of media to ever exist. Lorde has worked with people of color in the past, she doesn't have to do so in every song or video she does. I highly doubt Lorde is only working with white people on purpose, and I think it's weird to expect her to always keep diversity in her work in mind. Sometimes you just end up working with a lot of people of a certain race because there's an abundance of them around in that field. Especially if she recorded much of this album in New Zealand, there would be a shortage of diversity anyway. Hell, there aren't many people of color working in her genre either. It's entirely plausible anyone of color that could in theory collaborate with Lorde on this project physically could not due to location, time, or any other reason.
Personally, I think it's far more important for a musician to create art in their vision, using their culture and aspects of knowledge in life to represent themselves. If that happens to mean including diversity, then that's awesome. But if the goal is to just be inclusive for the sake of doing so, then you lose a part of what makes art special. We have seen countless times where forced diversity in music either comes out as a muddled mess or tacky. But letting it happen naturally (which includes understanding there are times when it won't be present) harbors excellent results. In Lorde's case, she comes from a predominately white country and works in a predominately white genre. It's going to make diversity that much more difficult to include.
Let's also not forget there is more than just race. Age, gender, and sexuality are all aspects of diversity as well.
Also, why are we assuming Lorde is even responsible for casting in her music videos?
I also think you're never going to get anywhere in your discussion or attempt to change others' minds if you dismiss their entire posts because of their race instead of actually responding to them. It's not like anyone in here is making posts with no points that can't be addressed.
|
|
G-Reg
Gold Member
Joined: November 2011
Posts: 764
|
Post by G-Reg on Jul 22, 2021 15:53:31 GMT -5
I'm Hispanic, but that's irrelevant to my point. Now that you have nothing to deflect to, you have to argue why white artists should be obligated to emphasize on the race of the people they collaborate with. You’re missing my point - I think as an artist, especially one who has a huge fanbase and platform, it’s important to show inclusion in your work. I totally understand if she worked w Jack Antonoff who happens to be white to create the album. Fine. But artistically, looking at the artists you chose to feature alongside you, the dancers and actors you choose to put in your visuals, it’s disheartening to see no diversity. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s an awareness. Im not going to continue this convo bc i have to get to work. I know my opinion - and it’s shared by others - is valid. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is a little upsetting. Im not coming for Lorde, Im just stating something that was glaringly obvious. Nobody’s missing your point and everyone here disagrees with you. Then you do the whole I’m not gonna discuss this anymore and my opinion is shared by others trying to shut down the dialogue. People like you are bad for the movement.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 16:04:48 GMT -5
I'm struggling to understand why a musician has to be all inclusive and make that political statement all the time. Particularly one from New Zealand having to make a statement that matches your American view on race. Inclusivity and diversity is important, yes, but it isn't necessary in every single piece of media to ever exist. Lorde has worked with people of color in the past, she doesn't have to do so in every song or video she does. I highly doubt Lorde is only working with white people on purpose, and I think it's weird to expect her to always keep diversity in her work in mind. Sometimes you just end up working with a lot of people of a certain race because there's an abundance of them around in that field. Especially if she recorded much of this album in New Zealand, there would be a shortage of diversity anyway. Hell, there aren't many people of color working in her genre either. It's entirely plausible anyone of color that could in theory collaborate with Lorde on this project physically could not due to location, time, or any other reason. Also, why are we assuming Lorde is even responsible for casting in her music videos? I also think you're never going to get anywhere in your discussion or attempt to change others' minds if you dismiss their entire posts because of their race instead of actually responding to them. It's not like anyone in here is making posts with no points that can't be addressed. I was thinking the same. Doesn’t she live, record, film videos, etc. in New Zealand? About 1% of the population there is Black or Latino. The major racial and ethnic minorities there are Asian and Pacific Islander. Why is there an expectation her work would showcase the diversity of the US? Seems like a very US-centric view of the world.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 19:48:08 GMT -5
I think people in North America just assume everyone else is diverse as over here or UK or Canada (39% US 22.3% Canada, UK 13.8%) Most European countries and also NZ are mostly white. Having all white cast in some places makes sense its the demographics.
I hate this convo anyways we aren't a token and if someone doesn't include us then don't include us. Don't ever invite me nowhere you feel obligated to and not want.
|
|
|
Post by adamalterlago on Jul 22, 2021 21:01:36 GMT -5
You’re missing my point - I think as an artist, especially one who has a huge fanbase and platform, it’s important to show inclusion in your work. I totally understand if she worked w Jack Antonoff who happens to be white to create the album. Fine. But artistically, looking at the artists you chose to feature alongside you, the dancers and actors you choose to put in your visuals, it’s disheartening to see no diversity. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s an awareness. Im not going to continue this convo bc i have to get to work. I know my opinion - and it’s shared by others - is valid. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is a little upsetting. Im not coming for Lorde, Im just stating something that was glaringly obvious. Nobody’s missing your point and everyone here disagrees with you. Then you do the whole I’m not gonna discuss this anymore and my opinion is shared by others trying to shut down the dialogue. People like you are bad for the movement. Because I made an obvious statement about the lack of diversity?? before you go running your mouth about being “bad for the movement”, you don’t know me or what i’ve done for “the movement”. so don’t come for me. ANYWAY, I shut down the convo bc i didn’t want to clog this thread. We have different opinions and that’s fine. I can’t help being a little disgruntled there isn’t diversity - not saying one race exclusively - in the visuals and musical contributors. This is a worldwide epidemic - although heightened in the US. Who even said I am or live in the US???!! I’ve lived across Europe for the past seven years…so…
|
|
|
Post by itsaboutart on Jul 23, 2021 2:08:43 GMT -5
I'm Hispanic, but that's irrelevant to my point. Now that you have nothing to deflect to, you have to argue why white artists should be obligated to emphasize on the race of the people they collaborate with. You’re missing my point - I think as an artist, especially one who has a huge fanbase and platform, it’s important to show inclusion in your work. I totally understand if she worked w Jack Antonoff who happens to be white to create the album. Fine. But artistically, looking at the artists you chose to feature alongside you, the dancers and actors you choose to put in your visuals, it’s disheartening to see no diversity. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s an awareness. Im not going to continue this convo bc i have to get to work. I know my opinion - and it’s shared by others - is valid. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is a little upsetting. Im not coming for Lorde, Im just stating something that was glaringly obvious. Also there is a black man and Asian women in the video! Let’s stop trying to create narratives when there aren’t any. I actually think it’s offensive to the movement to have ridiculous comments made about a music video being too white when there are people of colour in the damn thing. Go focus on a cause that actually exists. Racism is a real problem in your country! Go focus on you backyard before you look into mine in nz/aus. Not to say it doesn’t exist here it does. It just doesn’t exist in lordes video
|
|
Hurricane Lee
Moderator
#Justice4Soulsista
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 36,048
Pronouns: He/Him
Staff
|
Post by Hurricane Lee on Jul 23, 2021 18:58:06 GMT -5
WHIIIIIIIITE POWERRRRRRR.
|
|
daddy
Platinum Member
Joined: November 2017
Posts: 1,286
|
Post by daddy on Jul 24, 2021 3:08:56 GMT -5
WHIIIIIIIITE POWERRRRRRR. Dead. Whoever brought this up - can’t bother scrolling up to check - is trying to find a problem that isn’t there. “Stoned” doesn’t do much for me at this point, but hopefully will grow on me in context of the album. Definitely gives me Lana vibes. Love Lana, she is my biological mother, but I hope Lorde keeps the tempo and production that Lana disregarded early in her career.
|
|
theflying
2x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2006
Posts: 2,936
|
Post by theflying on Jul 24, 2021 9:09:22 GMT -5
Nobody’s missing your point and everyone here disagrees with you. Then you do the whole I’m not gonna discuss this anymore and my opinion is shared by others trying to shut down the dialogue. People like you are bad for the movement. Because I made an obvious statement about the lack of diversity?? before you go running your mouth about being “bad for the movement”, you don’t know me or what i’ve done for “the movement”. so don’t come for me. ANYWAY, I shut down the convo bc i didn’t want to clog this thread. We have different opinions and that’s fine. I can’t help being a little disgruntled there isn’t diversity - not saying one race exclusively - in the visuals and musical contributors. This is a worldwide epidemic - although heightened in the US. Who even said I am or live in the US???!! I’ve lived across Europe for the past seven years…so… Not going to revive this, but I just want to point out: You totally undermine your points and reveal yourself to not be operating in good faith, when you basically ignore all the myriad of responses people have actually given to your premise, and then run off. Basically, you trolled. Maybe not intentionally, but that’s what you did.
|
|
|
Post by Love Plastic Love on Jul 24, 2021 12:41:54 GMT -5
I'm surprised by just how Lana "Stoned" sounds. I think I will love this cd, but it also feels a bit...not authentic? Or something. Maybe authentic isn't the correct word.
|
|
daddy
Platinum Member
Joined: November 2017
Posts: 1,286
|
Post by daddy on Jul 25, 2021 2:18:50 GMT -5
I'm surprised by just how Lana "Stoned" sounds. I think I will love this cd, but it also feels a bit...not authentic? Or something. Maybe authentic isn't the correct word. I can’t recall the exact phrasing, but in her interview with Seth Meyers she did say something along the lines of her “making this album for other artists”. I found that comment interesting and a bit confusing as well.
|
|
YourFaveIsAFlop
5x Platinum Member
Catch me in the fridge, right where the ice be
Joined: April 2014
Posts: 5,464
|
Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Jul 26, 2021 11:36:39 GMT -5
It suffers from the same problem that I have with Marina's most recent album. It's not an album for us, it's an album for her pretentious friends. She's just decided to let us listen to it too.
|
|
bat1990
Diamond Member
Joined: July 2004
Posts: 12,937
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by bat1990 on Jul 26, 2021 11:46:27 GMT -5
It suffers from the same problem that I have with Marina's most recent album. It's not an album for us, it's an album for her pretentious friends. She's just decided to let us listen to it too. ???????? Ancient Dreams in a Modern Land is a master class that people should take notes from, but to each their own I guess. And how is it that different from the work of the person in your avatar? Heck, one could say Folklore and Evermore are just indulgent projects by Taylor and her pretentious folksy friends by this logic.
|
|
YourFaveIsAFlop
5x Platinum Member
Catch me in the fridge, right where the ice be
Joined: April 2014
Posts: 5,464
|
Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Jul 26, 2021 11:49:48 GMT -5
Uh, I didn't say they weren't? I said it was a problem, not that they were bad albums?
|
|
Ling-Ling
Diamond Member
Kill Kill Kill Kill! Die Die Die!
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 13,496
|
Post by Ling-Ling on Jul 26, 2021 11:54:40 GMT -5
I don't mind music being insular as long as it's good. And I don't want to judge this album before it comes out, because these songs may work in context. But my problem so far is with the songwriting. Lyrically, the songs are fine. But the melodies and structures have been a mess across the board. Like I still can't get around those verses on "Solar Power," what kind of amateur hour BS is this?
|
|
kimberly
Diamond Member
act i RENAISSANCE
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,914
My Charts
Pronouns: they/them
|
Post by kimberly on Jul 26, 2021 13:28:58 GMT -5
"Mood Ring" slaps y'all she needs to release it asap I'm tired of going back to the low quality leak
|
|
wwr
Gold Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 522
|
Post by wwr on Jul 26, 2021 22:49:46 GMT -5
I'm surprised by just how Lana "Stoned" sounds. I think I will love this cd, but it also feels a bit...not authentic? Or something. Maybe authentic isn't the correct word. not just that one song, the whole record sounds VERY NFR
|
|
|
Post by adamalterlago on Jul 27, 2021 0:40:19 GMT -5
Because I made an obvious statement about the lack of diversity?? before you go running your mouth about being “bad for the movement”, you don’t know me or what i’ve done for “the movement”. so don’t come for me. ANYWAY, I shut down the convo bc i didn’t want to clog this thread. We have different opinions and that’s fine. I can’t help being a little disgruntled there isn’t diversity - not saying one race exclusively - in the visuals and musical contributors. This is a worldwide epidemic - although heightened in the US. Who even said I am or live in the US???!! I’ve lived across Europe for the past seven years…so… Not going to revive this, but I just want to point out: You totally undermine your points and reveal yourself to not be operating in good faith, when you basically ignore all the myriad of responses people have actually given to your premise, and then run off. Basically, you trolled. Maybe not intentionally, but that’s what you did. I haven’t RUN off LMAO. It’s just beating a dead horse this point. Im entitled and stand by my opinion that I can’t help but notice a lack of diversity creatively from Lorde. Nothing against Lorde - I enjoy some of her music - Im making a general statement not trying to start WWIII.
|
|
kimberly
Diamond Member
act i RENAISSANCE
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,914
My Charts
Pronouns: they/them
|
Post by kimberly on Jul 27, 2021 11:29:06 GMT -5
|
|
upsidedown
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: August 2012
Posts: 10,604
|
Post by upsidedown on Jul 27, 2021 11:40:43 GMT -5
This interview format is atrocious and totally not organic at all. I couldn't even make it past the first minute. I'll have to listen to this like it was a podcast without the visual. Also the "interviewer" voice is annoying as hell.
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,858
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Jul 27, 2021 11:57:27 GMT -5
I love these interviews. Lizzo's was the best.
|
|
Ryan
5x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 5,193
|
Post by Ryan on Jul 29, 2021 11:50:41 GMT -5
|
|
Ryan
5x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2006
Posts: 5,193
|
Post by Ryan on Jul 30, 2021 13:15:21 GMT -5
|
|
Caviar
Diamond Member
Queen X
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 30,858
My Charts
Pronouns: He/his
|
Post by Caviar on Jul 30, 2021 13:58:02 GMT -5
Easily the BEST Hot Ones episode! She didn’t even flinch as it got hotter. I also love the way she embraces pop music. Halle’s episode has just been surpassed.
|
|
circadian
4x Platinum Member
alone and undisturbed
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,358
|
Post by circadian on Aug 12, 2021 16:31:12 GMT -5
My interest has dropped a lot that I actually forgot the album was to be released next week. I'm hopeful the full thing makes me excited again.
|
|
Nick
8x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2004
Posts: 8,678
|
Post by Nick on Aug 12, 2021 18:12:21 GMT -5
I am still interested in hearing this.
|
|
Choco
Diamond Member
lavender haze
Joined: February 2009
Posts: 26,965
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
|
Post by Choco on Aug 12, 2021 18:38:50 GMT -5
This is coming next week? wow.
|
|