Billboard Hot 100: 07/06/2019

[jenglisbe]

Jun 29, 2019 9:59:34 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

There was no “manipulation” behind OSD’s success. It was simply the combination of having two Hot 100 powerhouses unexpectedly collaborate on a song together of which brought it so much heavy chart traction. Even if it’s airplay was “manipulated” that doesn’t explain the fact that it ranked number one in sales for well over double-digit weeks.

•••

These are the biggest respective sales weeks that each of the aforementioned songs had.

• End of the Road: 345K+ sales - Week 7

(3 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• I Will Always Love You: 636K sales - Week 6

(2 weeks of 600K+ sales & 5 weeks of 400K+ sales)

• I’ll Make Love To You: 319K sales - Weeks 5

(4 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• One Sweet Day: 290K sales: Week 10

(9 weeks of 200K+ sales)

• The Boy Is Mine: 336K sales - Week 3

(3 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• Candle in The Wind: 3.5M+ sales - Week 1

(3weeks of 1M+ sales & 5 weeks of 500K+ sales)

•••

“I Will Always Love You” and “Candle in the Wind” had the biggest respective Physical sales weeks of any song in the soundscan era.

“I Will...” finished the 90’s with 4.5+ sales in the U.S and “Candle In...” finished the 90’s with 9.5M+ sales and is the only song to be certified ‘Diamond’ with sales the closest to 10M+ units since (“I Gotta Feeling” ranks second).

All of these were lead singles or stand alone singles, except "One Sweet Day."

[jebsib]

It's all perspective, and it's very hard to find a consensus on what should be the most popular song of all time.
For decades, Elvis' "Don't Be Cruel" had the most weeks -
But millions of older Americans thought Rock n Roll was noisy trash, so they weren't here for it.
By 1990 no one could believe it was the longest running pop hit of all time (sounded so dated)

In 1996, Macarena was enormous but mocked for being "The #2 ranked song of all time" (by weeks).
A novelty, it was in the same boat as OTR.

Even OSD, as insanely dominant as it was that winter (and it was), disappeared *fairly* quickly compared to her other songs from that era.

[thegreatdivine]

Jun 29, 2019 9:59:49 GMT -5 fhas said:

Jun 29, 2019 9:54:53 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

I like old, long-standing records being broken. I'm always here for it. Mostly because I think every record is meant to be broken. It just keeps things exciting.

It sucks that every position record (#1, top 3, top 5, top 10) is a tie between two songs. The "OSD/Despacito record", "UpTown Funk!/Closer" record, "SOY/GLY" record... that's not good, imo.

Yeah, but what are you gonna do? There'll always be massive hits and sometimes some of them will tie with other songs. I'm just waiting to see if any song will ever get to 18-20 weeks at #1, lol. One record I particularly like is Nice for What's record: only song to peak at #1 four different times during it's chart run.

[kierz7]

Jun 29, 2019 10:07:25 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Jun 29, 2019 9:59:34 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

There was no “manipulation” behind OSD’s success. It was simply the combination of having two Hot 100 powerhouses unexpectedly collaborate on a song together of which brought it so much heavy chart traction. Even if it’s airplay was “manipulated” that doesn’t explain the fact that it ranked number one in sales for well over double-digit weeks.

•••

These are the biggest respective sales weeks that each of the aforementioned songs had.

• End of the Road: 345K+ sales - Week 7

(3 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• I Will Always Love You: 636K sales - Week 6

(2 weeks of 600K+ sales & 5 weeks of 400K+ sales)

• I’ll Make Love To You: 319K sales - Weeks 5

(4 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• One Sweet Day: 290K sales: Week 10

(9 weeks of 200K+ sales)

• The Boy Is Mine: 336K sales - Week 3

(3 weeks of 300K+ sales)

• Candle in The Wind: 3.5M+ sales - Week 1

(3weeks of 1M+ sales & 5 weeks of 500K+ sales)

•••

“I Will Always Love You” and “Candle in the Wind” had the biggest respective Physical sales weeks of any song in the soundscan era.

“I Will...” finished the 90’s with 4.5+ sales in the U.S and “Candle In...” finished the 90’s with 9.5M+ sales and is the only song to be certified ‘Diamond’ with sales the closest to 10M+ units since (“I Gotta Feeling” ranks second).

All of these were lead singles or stand alone singles, except "One Sweet Day."

Well, “The Boy Is Mine” served as the lead to both Brandy and Monica’s debut album following its success but yes, you’re right.

[kierz7]

Jun 29, 2019 10:10:12 GMT -5 jebsib said:

It's all perspective, and it's very hard to find a consensus on what should be the most popular song of all time.
For decades, Elvis' "Don't Be Cruel" had the most weeks -
But millions of older Americans thought Rock n Roll was noisy trash, so they weren't here for it.
By 1990 no one could believe it was the longest running pop hit of all time (sounded so dated)

In 1996, Macarena was enormous but mocked for being "The #2 ranked song of all time" (by weeks).
A novelty, it was in the same boat as OTR.

Even OSD, as insanely dominant as it was that winter (and it was), disappeared *fairly* quickly compared to her other songs from that era.

“One Sweet Day” disappeared *fairly* quickly because once it hit 15 weeks at number one (the week of the 1996 GRAMMY’s), Sony slowly pulled back the singles shipment from retail stores and lowered the price of the remaining singles to 49c - Billboard conformed this.

Tommy Mottolla even confirmed this in his book. He said (and I’m paraphrasing) he knew that Carey and ...II Men had the power to break the record and wanted to make sure it did. He also said he knew that Carey and ...II Men opening the GRAMMY’s that year would be a sure way to boost its sales. Personally, this is all ironic considering he was *against* the collaboration in the first place.

Also, you’ve highlighted something I’ve just one to realise:

“OTR” May very well be a novelty hit ala. “Macarena”.

[fhas]

Jun 29, 2019 10:11:14 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Jun 29, 2019 9:59:49 GMT -5 fhas said:

It sucks that every position record (#1, top 3, top 5, top 10) is a tie between two songs. The "OSD/Despacito record", "UpTown Funk!/Closer" record, "SOY/GLY" record... that's not good, imo.

Yeah, but what are you gonna do? There'll always be massive hits and sometimes some of them will tie with other songs. I'm just waiting to see if any song will ever get to 18-20 weeks at #1, lol. One record I particularly like is Nice for What's record: only song to peak at #1 four different times during it's chart run.

I mean it's just better when you've one song with the record because it feels more special.

NFW's record is really hard to break because you need lucky and perfect timing. Let's remember that its three returns to #1 were by an estimated 500 points COMBINED (36,000 vs. 35,700, 32,700 vs. 32,700 and 40,700 vs. 40,500).

[ghostin]

There was chart manipulation from the very start of One Sweet Day’s chart run, as there was with the majority of Mariah’s 1990s singles:

“The fax is not the only way Columbia helped push "One Sweet Day" to No. 1, where it has remained for nine weeks. The label also encouraged a rush of sales in the early weeks by giving out free copies to stores reporting to Soundscan or by offering them four singles for the price of one. Stores could then put "One Sweet Day" on sale for 49 to 99 cents, more than $2 below the average price of a single. This has become a common practice for promoting high-priority releases.”
www.nytimes.com/1996/01/25/arts/are-pop-charts-manipulated.html

[moonlite]

^Sounds like manipulation to me.

[kierz7]

Jun 29, 2019 10:41:33 GMT -5 ghostin said:

There was chart manipulation from the very start of One Sweet Day’s chart run, as there was with the majority of Mariah’s 1990s singles:

“The fax is not the only way Columbia helped push "One Sweet Day" to No. 1, where it has remained for nine weeks. The label also encouraged a rush of sales in the early weeks by giving out free copies to stores reporting to Soundscan or by offering them four singles for the price of one. Stores could then put "One Sweet Day" on sale for 49 to 99 cents, more than $2 below the average price of a single. This has become a common practice for promoting high-priority releases.”
www.nytimes.com/1996/01/25/arts/are-pop-charts-manipulated.html

Even if this were the case, the fact still remains that “One Sweet Day” sold in excess of 200K+ sales for nine consecutive weeks and 100K+ sales for thirteen consecutive weeks. This was bolstered by it’s heavy airplay also. It’d be a different case if the song were selling next-to-nothing week after week. Between late-December 1996 to mid-February 1996, no song was outselling it, regardless of whether it was priced at for $2.50 or 49c.

Furthermore, the song didn’t even chart at number one on its core format: the R&B charts. Instead, it peaked at number two for one week. It also peaked at number two on R&B radio for three weeks before it began falling. It was a much bigger hit across Pop and AC formats and neither artists were especially ‘big’ on either chart then.

[jenglisbe]

Jun 29, 2019 10:41:33 GMT -5 ghostin said:

There was chart manipulation from the very start of One Sweet Day’s chart run, as there was with the majority of Mariah’s 1990s singles:

“The fax is not the only way Columbia helped push "One Sweet Day" to No. 1, where it has remained for nine weeks. The label also encouraged a rush of sales in the early weeks by giving out free copies to stores reporting to Soundscan or by offering them four singles for the price of one. Stores could then put "One Sweet Day" on sale for 49 to 99 cents, more than $2 below the average price of a single. This has become a common practice for promoting high-priority releases.”
www.nytimes.com/1996/01/25/arts/are-pop-charts-manipulated.html

"Common practice" yet those others didn't get 16 weeks.

[Choco]

I don't like OSD but there was clearly a lot of demand for it.

Mariah tried much more blatant manipulation with "Loverboy" and it still stalled at #2.

[#LisaRinna]

Jun 29, 2019 9:23:33 GMT -5 moonlite said:

^Not saying OSD wasn't big, but it was "helped" taken to 16 weeks because of some label manipulation with heavy discounting.

Lies. If anything, it could've had another week at #1 but Sony was pushing for "Because You Loved Me" to hit #1 by then.

[thegreatdivine]

Jun 29, 2019 10:31:53 GMT -5 fhas said:

Jun 29, 2019 10:11:14 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Yeah, but what are you gonna do? There'll always be massive hits and sometimes some of them will tie with other songs. I'm just waiting to see if any song will ever get to 18-20 weeks at #1, lol. One record I particularly like is Nice for What's record: only song to peak at #1 four different times during it's chart run.

I mean it's just better when you've one song with the record because it feels more special.

NFW's record is really hard to break because you need lucky and perfect timing. Let's remember that its three returns to #1 were by an estimated 500 points COMBINED (36,000 vs. 35,700, 32,700 vs. 32,700 and 40,700 vs. 40,500).

Yeah, I get that. Hopefully there are some more funny records to be set/broken.

Wow, that's REALLY close. Didn't know it was that close. Sometimes I wish we knew Billboard's exact formula for the Hot 100.

[thegreatdivine]

iHype. this is random, but do you know the true number of units Scorpion has sold worldwide? The UWC worldwide equivalent album sales chart doesn't take into account any units sold BEFORE the album drops and only counts sales following the album release. They currently have reputation at less that 5 million units sold worldwide, but that album has moved over 8 million units worldwide. They currently have Scorpion at about 5.3 million units sold worldwide, but I'm guessing it's higher.

[fhas]

Jun 29, 2019 12:27:53 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Jun 29, 2019 10:31:53 GMT -5 fhas said:

I mean it's just better when you've one song with the record because it feels more special.

NFW's record is really hard to break because you need lucky and perfect timing. Let's remember that its three returns to #1 were by an estimated 500 points COMBINED (36,000 vs. 35,700, 32,700 vs. 32,700 and 40,700 vs. 40,500).

Yeah, I get that. Hopefully there are some more funny records to be set/broken.

Wow, that's REALLY close. Didn't know it was that close. Sometimes I wish we knew Billboard's exact formula for the Hot 100.

In 2018, HDD mentioned the exact Hot 100 formula but that was before the streaming changes in June. For seven of NFW's eight weeks I had the exact formula, but even then sometimes it came down to what is reported by streaming services or to BB rounding numbers.

[thegreatdivine]

Jun 29, 2019 12:36:43 GMT -5 fhas said:

Jun 29, 2019 12:27:53 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

Yeah, I get that. Hopefully there are some more funny records to be set/broken.

Wow, that's REALLY close. Didn't know it was that close. Sometimes I wish we knew Billboard's exact formula for the Hot 100.

In 2018, HDD mentioned the exact Hot 100 formula but that was before the streaming changes in June. For seven of NFW's eight weeks I had the exact formula, but even then sometimes it came down to what is reported by streaming services or to BB rounding numbers.

Damn. I'm guessing the tricky part of the formula now is exactly how Billboard weighs paid vs. free-tier streams.

Anyways, on most weeks, you come close enough so I don't think your formula is that far off.

[TakeMe]

Wow, so Mariah’s record is undeserved?

[Choco]

Jun 29, 2019 14:15:34 GMT -5 TakeMe said:

Wow, so Mariah’s record is undeserved?

[Crimsonio]

Mariah is the Billboard Queen, she remains unbothered by Despacito and even if OTR breaks the record.

[David]

Hopefully the remix of "Bad Guy" will keep OTR from getting to 17 weeks.... even if it blocks it for 1-2 weeks that should give "Señorita" enough time to take over....

[Choco]

If "bad guy" uses the remix to go #1 can we say it "blocked" OTR?

Controversial word at the moment :kii:

[wjr15]

I don’t get how the 16 week record is Mariah’s record, she shares it equally with Boyz II Men, Luis Fonsi, Daddy Yankee, and Justin Bieber.

Plus, Mariah still holds the record for most number ones, so who really cares if OTR takes over. It doesn’t erase anything from Mariah’s career.

I want OTR to break the record but if not, I want it to settle at 15 weeks.

[David]

I just think OTR is a stupid song.... I feel like the songs that were massive hits recently that challenged (or tied) the record were 10X better (Despacito, Closer, Uptown Funk, etc.) I enjoyed all of those songs but I find OTR to be cringeworthy.

[Choco]

Jun 29, 2019 16:34:43 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Plus, Mariah still holds the record for most number ones,

[wjr15]

Jun 29, 2019 17:14:27 GMT -5 Choco said:

Jun 29, 2019 16:34:43 GMT -5 wjr15 said:

Plus, Mariah still holds the record for most number ones,

Whoops lol

*female with the most hot 100 singles lol

[Deleted]

Mariah will have the record for most weeks at number ones as All I Want For Christmas Is You will be number one on Christmas week for the next 40 years

[David]

Jun 29, 2019 17:58:02 GMT -5 @drakeisskinny said:

Mariah will have the record for most weeks at number ones as All I Want For Christmas Is You will be number one on Christmas week for the next 40 years

It has a really good shot at hitting #1 on the Hot 100 this year, too.

[Deleted]

Jun 29, 2019 18:47:14 GMT -5 David said:

Jun 29, 2019 17:58:02 GMT -5 @drakeisskinny said:

Mariah will have the record for most weeks at number ones as All I Want For Christmas Is You will be number one on Christmas week for the next 40 years

It has a really good shot at hitting #1 on the Hot 100 this year, too.

41 week number one

[85la]

Jun 29, 2019 10:53:51 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Jun 29, 2019 10:41:33 GMT -5 ghostin said:

There was chart manipulation from the very start of One Sweet Day’s chart run, as there was with the majority of Mariah’s 1990s singles:

“The fax is not the only way Columbia helped push "One Sweet Day" to No. 1, where it has remained for nine weeks. The label also encouraged a rush of sales in the early weeks by giving out free copies to stores reporting to Soundscan or by offering them four singles for the price of one. Stores could then put "One Sweet Day" on sale for 49 to 99 cents, more than $2 below the average price of a single. This has become a common practice for promoting high-priority releases.”
www.nytimes.com/1996/01/25/arts/are-pop-charts-manipulated.html

Even if this were the case, the fact still remains that “One Sweet Day” sold in excess of 200K+ sales for nine consecutive weeks and 100K+ sales for thirteen consecutive weeks. This was bolstered by it’s heavy airplay also. It’d be a different case if the song were selling next-to-nothing week after week. Between late-December 1996 to mid-February 1996, no song was outselling it, regardless of whether it was priced at for $2.50 or 49c.

Furthermore, the song didn’t even chart at number one on its core format: the R&B charts. Instead, it peaked at number two for one week. It also peaked at number two on R&B radio for three weeks before it began falling. It was a much bigger hit across Pop and AC formats and neither artists were especially ‘big’ on either chart then.

My favorite quote from that article:

"One thing that Soundscan has proven is that you can fake it some of the way up the chart but you can't fake it all the way," said a record label executive who spoke on condition of anonymity. "Ultimately, if the record doesn't work with people, no matter how much you pervert the figures it doesn't matter. What these things can only do is help expose a record. From that point on, it's up to the public to decide."

kierz7 what is your source for these sales figures for OSD, as well as for the other songs you provided? Sorry, but they appear to be wrong, even just by using numerical logic:

OSD sold 2,334,000 copies total per Soundscan.

But if it had "in excess of 100K sales for 13 consecutive weeks, 9 of them being at 200K+," the nine weeks at 200K+ would add to a figure larger than 1.9 million, and the remaining 4 weeks at 100K+ would add to a figure larger than 400K, which together would add to an overall total much larger than 2.334 million. Plus, sales of course didn't just stop after it's 13th week on the sales chart, as it remained on the chart for a while longer.

In addition, I know for a fact that I Will Always Love You only had one week above 600k.

I remember a while ago someone posted phony numbers like these, It's really deceptive.

[Glove Slap]

Jun 28, 2019 17:59:06 GMT -5 ddlz said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that remembers this lol. That said though, the way they're doing the project this year is extra sly for this. He still gets to have pop hits, there's a connection to past work from before he was huge with the title, the collaborations dull potential overexposure, and in the case that this type of album does come out over the next year, this year will still have provided more recent hits so if there's a soft performance next year, it won't have the weight of his last two bit hits being three years old already.