Billboard Hot 100: 11/30/2019

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Nov 18, 2019 7:10:38 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Nov 18, 2019 6:50:16 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

That's a long winded post to say "yes." Because, you see, what I'm getting from this post is "I decide what a hit is, and I arbitrarily assign it to songs I think deserve it and the public perception doesn't at all factor in to me because I live in a bubble and refuse to leave it and accept other people perceive music differently."

That's not what I'm saying. I never said public perception should be disregarded entirely; I clearly said it "shouldn't be the be-all, end-all". Public perception clearly plays a part, otherwise bands like The Killers or Nirvana could be labeled as one-hit wonders.

But by labelling the artist who started this whole debate, Lil Nas X, as a one-hit wonder, it's dismissing the success he's having right now. When people think OHW, they tend to think artists with fluke hits or artists who were never heard off again but that's not the case with him, we're hearing from him and if pushed right, we could still be hearing from him a few months from now. Yeah, Old Town Road might eclipse him but a song eclipsing an artist, that can happen to any artist regardless of successful they are.

And there’s also an issue of putting labels on current artists and trying to dispute them. One-hit-wonder is also largely a nostalgic term. In five years, it’s likely Nas X will have the label thrust upon him - unless he can continue to impact pop culture (and I hope he does and think he may be able to).

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2019 22:54:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

The term "one hit wonder" simply isn't meant to be taken literally. In essence, it's become a "genre" in and of itself that includes artists who are mainly known or remembered (in a collective sense) for one hit and nothing else. And in this case, "hit" would be defined as something that penetrated mainstream pop culture beyond a simple chart stat.

You know how kids make up new rules while playing a card game so that they don't lose and you want to be like 'shut up, you lost already' but you know that's really mean so you're just like 'fine, whatever' but then the kid won't end the fucking game. Like, you'd be totally okay eventually reaching a point where the kid 'won' just so you could just be done with it and the kid's self-esteem could remain intact, but they never come up with a decent enough rule that could create a definitive win, so they keep having to make up new loopholes in response to the last loophole that failed them. You even find yourself getting excited when you finally run out of cards - only for the kid to flip the whole pile over to keep going, and they didn't even bother to shuffle. The shit never ends, unless you yell 'OH MY GOD YOU WON' (much to the confusion of the kid but they're down with it so w/e).

No shade but your post reads like the chart watching equivalent of playing a card game with a kid. I have a different Pulse experience from Corin - over the years I have watched arguments over the OHW 'rule' devolve from 'someone who only had one top 40' to 'someone who only had one top 20' to 'someone who only had one top 10' to 'well, not all top 10s are really hits' to, apparently now, 'who needs these simple charts?' You knocked on chart watchers for their "(in)ability to see perception" when based on this amorphous blob of an opinion, you can't even define the perception anyone should be seeing.

This is why the 'chart watchers' go back and forth with you and others on this. Yes, some of them are too rigid in their views on things, but it's not so much that you have a different definition of what a hit is that irks here; it's that you literally don't have a definition in the slightest. You have some feelings that you're pretty sure a lot of other people have too, and if enough people agree with you then you can insist that your feeling is reality even if there are clearly other people who feel differently. So you're jumping on a topic and turning it into some game with no ending; feelings don't stay static and something is going to happen to make you have to change your definition of 'hit' again.

I have much deeper reasons for why this agitates me so much (it's symbolic of the very post-truth mentality that has pervaded society and I'll leave it at that) but fuck it, I'm over it and don't want to know what ten definitions for a hit song come after 'something beyond a simple chart stat.' Oh my God, you won!

/LNX is still not a 1-hit wonder but I'm tired

[jenglisbe]

Nov 17, 2019 22:54:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

The term "one hit wonder" simply isn't meant to be taken literally.

According to whom? The person who coined the phrase? Who was that?

[lazer]

True one hit wonders:

Los Del Rio
Timmy T
Gotye
J Kwon
Toni Basil
Right Said Fred
Crazy Town
Dexys Midnight Runners
Chumbawumba
The Knack
Metro Station
Kent Jones
Sheck Wes

[Au$tin]

Nov 18, 2019 8:24:10 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 17, 2019 22:54:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

The term "one hit wonder" simply isn't meant to be taken literally.

According to whom? The person who coined the phrase? Who was that?

Probably the same person that coined the phrase "hit" but never defined what that should be. Without that being well defined, "one hit wonder" becomes just as vague and open to interpretation.

[Deleted]

Y'know, I do have to concede that one reason I'm not with this OHW stuff is because I always take perception in the opposite direction. Being a fan of hip-hop and r&b, there are a lot of songs out there that don't have the stats on paper to back them up as even minor 'hits' on the Hot 100, and sometimes not on their genre charts either. I'm fine with this bc that is a nature of those cultures, but I don't like when people use charts or flaky definitions to diminish anyone's accomplishments or overall impact. So in my mind, I separate the idea of 'hits' from the idea of 'impact,' and I tend not to use the term 'one hit wonder' to describe someone unless they really and truly only had one song that made a splash in any kind of way. Mark Morrison, The Tony Rich Project, Jimmy Ray, D4L, The Shop Boyz...now those are some true one-hit wonders.

A hit, to me, is simply a song that was successful on a given date, or in a certain year if looking at the YE charts, or in a certain genre when looking at genre charts. Nothing more and nothing less. Charts can and do provide a bit of a historical look into what a certain time period was like, and I enjoy looking at past charts for that reason. Some hits do go on to stand the test of time, and charts do a decent but not complete job of capturing those. But charts are by nature ephemeral, so even if the concept of a 'hit' is in itself vague, I don't really get why one would want to attach some longterm legacy/impact qualifier to something that was clearly never made to measure such a thing in a longterm manner.

[Fat Ass Kelly Price]

Nov 18, 2019 9:00:53 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Y'know, I do have to concede that one reason I'm not with this OHW stuff is because I always take perception in the opposite direction. Being a fan of hip-hop and r&b, there are a lot of songs out there that don't have the stats on paper to back them up as even minor 'hits' on the Hot 100, and sometimes not on their genre charts either. I'm fine with this bc that is a nature of those cultures, but I don't like when people use charts or flaky definitions to diminish anyone's accomplishments or overall impact. So in my mind, I separate the idea of 'hits' from the idea of 'impact,' and I tend not to use the term 'one hit wonder' to describe someone unless they really and truly only had one song that made a splash in any kind of way. Mark Morrison, The Tony Rich Project, Jimmy Ray, D4L, The Shop Boyz...now those are some true one-hit wonders.

A hit, to me, is simply a song that was successful on a given date, or in a certain year if looking at the YE charts, or in a certain genre when looking at genre charts. Nothing more and nothing less. Charts can and do provide a bit of a historical look into what a certain time period was like, and I enjoy looking at past charts for that reason. Some hits do go on to stand the test of time, and charts do a decent but not complete job of capturing those. But charts are by nature ephemeral, so even if the concept of a 'hit' is in itself vague, I don't really get why one would want to attach some longterm legacy/impact qualifier to something that was clearly never made to measure such a thing in a longterm manner.

I agree with most of this, particular the bolded bit. I really just think it’s a flawed terms whichever way you dice it. I prefer “flash in the pan” because it gives the same general feeling that OHW does without the implication that the act literally only had one hit. There’s just far too many ambiguities otherwise. Impact is hard to quantify and varies given your audience. The concept of a hit is also fairly vague.

[dann]

ROXANNE returned to #1 on spotify and on kworb appears 2 times on AM, #10 and #14 🤔

[iggyamo]

I think the definition of a hit by most people is kind of weird, to me it exclusively deals with chart success. For example I wouldn’t call The Less I Know The Better a hit, even though it’s been really successful at being remembered, or any of Ozzy Osbourne’s songs besides the duet. I feel like it should be clear cut based on chart success even if it doesn’t make much sense, such as if an artist is really big at the time, but only one song gets remembered, all those other songs were most definitely hits, while the deep cut off the indie album that released in the same time frame that got really popular after the fact was never a hit.

Also I feel like Lil Nas X may follow the path of Carly Rae Jepsen, he does have a large amount of loyal fans and a pretty big personality, he may not necessarily be big after this year, but he will be there.

[twelvevinylrecords]

Nov 18, 2019 11:45:18 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

I think the definition of a hit by most people is kind of weird, to me it exclusively deals with chart success. For example I wouldn’t call The Less I Know The Better a hit, even though it’s been really successful at being remembered, or any of Ozzy Osbourne’s songs besides the duet. I feel like it should be clear cut based on chart success even if it doesn’t make much sense, such as if an artist is really big at the time, but only one song gets remembered, all those other songs were most definitely hits, while the deep cut off the indie album that released in the same time frame that got really popular after the fact was never a hit.

Also I feel like Lil Nas X may follow the path of Carly Rae Jepsen, he does have a large amount of loyal fans and a pretty big personality, he may not necessarily be big after this year, but he will be there.

See, I am personally opposite. I think that being remembered in the public consciousness trumps chart success, as the definition of being a hit is being popular and well known by everyone. For example, I would say that at this point the Less I know the Better is much more of a hit than Hold It Against Me, even though one was a number one hit and the other didnt chart.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Watermelon Sugar debuted in the Top 10 on Spotify, bringing back Light's Up with it. Harry's album is dropping in a few weeks so it's be interesting how that fares.

[badrobot]

If there was a simple, unquestionable definition of "One Hit Wonder" then we wouldn't have these arguments every few months.

Honestly, I think "One Hit Wonder" is a term that exists for people who aren't chart watchers, and is used to refer to artists who are primarily remembered for one big song. And of course, that is prone to subjectivity. It also means it is a term you cannot apply to someone until years after their big splash, because it requires the passage of time to determine memorability (and also to see if they end up with a big follow-up at some point). So, let's not even talk about Lil Nas X in this regard for now.

If you look at lots of artists labeled One Hit Wonders, often they really are "two-hit wonders who only really have one song that gets a lot of recurrent airplay or is talked about today."

Trying to make an objective chart-based rule for a label that is used primarily by people who don't care about the charts is a fool's errand.

Why don't we start calling the artists with truly only one Hot 100 charting song "One Hit Artists" here. Use a different term and sidestep this whole argument, because you'll certainly never be able to define what "wonder" means in a chart context.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Nov 18, 2019 8:24:10 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 17, 2019 22:54:25 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

The term "one hit wonder" simply isn't meant to be taken literally.

According to whom? The person who coined the phrase? Who was that?

It’s just my interpretation of it based on how it’s been used in any official capacity anyway. Looking at every example of it, most aren’t accurate but are still defined as “one hit wonders.” The problem for us in these discussions is that we all take it literally but looking at how it’s used outside of this board, it’s almost always used ‘incorrectly’. Plus there’s the problem of not really having a definition of what a ‘hit’ is because it’s such a floating concept depending on so many factors. I choose to use the term (and air it here) without those restrictions because everyone else seems so stressed out over it.

[jenglisbe]

Nov 18, 2019 12:23:52 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Nov 18, 2019 8:24:10 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

According to whom? The person who coined the phrase? Who was that?

It’s just my interpretation of it based on how it’s been used in any official capacity anyway. Looking at every example of it, most aren’t accurate but are still defined as “one hit wonders.” The problem for us in these discussions is that we all take it literally but looking at how it’s used outside of this board, it’s almost always used ‘incorrectly’. Plus there’s the problem of not really having a definition of what a ‘hit’ is because it’s such a floating concept depending on so many factors. I choose to use the term (and air it here) without those restrictions because everyone else seems so stressed out over it.

That all makes sense and is of course valid, but your participation here made it seem like you didn't see there are other interpretations. This post says otherwise, which is cool.

[𝕡𝕙𝕖𝕖𝕓𝕤]

Nov 18, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Watermelon Sugar debuted in the Top 10 on Spotify, bringing back Light's Up with it. Harry's album is dropping in a few weeks so it's be interesting how that fares.

I think this is something notewortht. The fact that “Watermelon Sugar” hoisted “Lights Up” back into the Spotify Top 10 is really impressive & unexpected. Release week will be interesting.

[lazer]

Nov 18, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Watermelon Sugar debuted in the Top 10 on Spotify, bringing back Light's Up with it. Harry's album is dropping in a few weeks so it's be interesting how that fares.

Hopefully with the album release, Watermelon Sugar will be a hit in 2020.

[walt91]

All I Want For Christmas Is You is top 50 on Spotify today, and it’s only November 18. She’s really coming this year

[𝕡𝕙𝕖𝕖𝕓𝕤]

Nov 18, 2019 13:53:22 GMT -5 walt91 said:

All I Want For Christmas Is You is top 50 on Spotify today, and it’s only November 18. She’s really coming this year

The US is on fire, literally and figuratively. I guess everyone is desperate for some holiday cheer this year.

[Choco]

oh yay the one hit wonder argument again

I may have skipped the last page and a half, ngl.

[nathanalbright]

Nov 16, 2019 12:08:51 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Everytime I hear "Roxanne" I think of The Police.

Sorry, I'm old.

You and me both.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

^Same here ...

[Choco]

In b4 someone brings up the Owl City song to try and save Carly Rae.

[shaz196]

A discussion about Lil Nas X being a one-hit wonder really made it to three pages when he already has another bonafide hit? Lol ok

[Choco]

Nov 18, 2019 15:29:25 GMT -5 shaz196 said:

A discussion about Lil Nas X being a one-hit wonder really made it to three pages when he already has another bonafide hit? Lol ok

I think the argument here is that if he stops having a career at this point, he'll appear on VH1's 100 One Hit Wonders of the Decade. Like plenty of people with a follow-up hit.

But it seems like some people aren't capable of understanding that a one hit wonder is a loose term associated with acts where a single song dominated pop culture and they never approached that level again, "Panini" sized hits be damned.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2019 15:40:26 GMT -5 @lil14 said:

everything i wanted debuts at #74!

for 11/23. big jump in store for this week

[nak]

Why is Senorita still so high? It's a hot steamy summer song yet people are still bopping to this in November?

[kimberly]

Nov 18, 2019 13:53:22 GMT -5 walt91 said:

All I Want For Christmas Is You is top 50 on Spotify today, and it’s only November 18. She’s really coming this year

Christmas on Spotify:

#47 Mariah Carey - AIWFCIY (390k streams)
#87 Brenda Lee - Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree (283k streams)
#94 Bobby Helms - Jingle Bell Rock (266k streams)
#96 Ariana Grande - Santa Tell Me (265k streams)
#100 WHAM! - Last Christmas (260k streams)
#115 Andy Williams - It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year (246k streams)
#130 Michael Buble - It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas (234k streams)
#151 Justin Bieber - Mistletoe (215k streams)
#194 Michael Buble - Holly Jolly Christmas (187k streams)
#198 Frank Sinatra - Let It Snow!³ (186k streams)

Over on Apple Music:

#85 Mariah Carey - AIWFCIY

[sirskimask]

Nov 18, 2019 15:47:55 GMT -5 nak said:

Why is Senorita still so high? It's a hot steamy summer song yet people are still bopping to this in November?

Radio

[Enigma.]

Roxanne seems to be stabilising on streaming. Remix coming soon?

[velaxti]

Nov 18, 2019 15:47:55 GMT -5 nak said:

Why is Senorita still so high? It's a hot steamy summer song yet people are still bopping to this in November?

Well, I Gotta Feeling was still #1 in Europe in December, so this isn't so bad lol.