Juan Carlos
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Post by Juan Carlos on May 13, 2020 13:15:55 GMT -5
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 3:04:36 GMT -5
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Post by JOJO SIWA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME on May 21, 2020 3:38:21 GMT -5
I am shocked that she actually named names! She went in!
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 3:46:57 GMT -5
New album coming September 5 I am shocked that she actually named names! She went in! I'm personally not a huge fan of what she wrote for a couple reasons. 1. Lana, you didn't invent music. Many women before you did what you're doing. 2. Leave Black women alone. I don't think Lana is criticized more than Nicki or Megan or Beyoncé. 3. What does "I'm not not a feminist" mean? Sis trying to stir the pot to get her name in the headlines. Whatever.
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Troublemaker
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Post by Troublemaker on May 21, 2020 4:20:36 GMT -5
2. Leave Black women alone. Sis are we now considering Ariana and Camila as Black??? Anyway Lana is one of those people who I'll never believe whatever date she puts out there till I at least have a preorder link.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 4:29:28 GMT -5
2. Leave Black women alone. Sis are we now considering Ariana and Camila as Black??? No, where did I say that? 5 of 7 women she mentioned are Black, including the 3 I listed right after saying "Leave Black women alone" but I guess you needed a reason to use that gif. Love Kenan Thompson!
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ashley
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Post by ashley on May 21, 2020 5:53:09 GMT -5
I am shocked that she actually named names! She went in! Did she though? I don't think she was criticising anyone that she mentioned. She was criticising the double standard that she feels. I kind of like what Lana wrote but to imply that she paved the way for these lyrical themes is crazy. "He hit me and it felt like a kiss" is from 1962!
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on May 21, 2020 6:19:31 GMT -5
Listen, I love me some Lana, but some of her lyrics were gross, period. It's of course her right to sing them and if they reflect her reality, then cool, at least she was being honest. But my issues with her first couple of albums were never about her f**ked up take on gender dynamics in relationships, it was the fact that she was trying to make it sound romantic and glamorous. I feel like she dropped those tropes a long time ago (or at the very least became more intelligent in conveying them), not sure why she's bringing this up now. That whole post comes off as unnecessary and kinda clueless. And her trying to throw other female artists under the bus, for singing about sex? She totally missed the point of why people were critiquing her in the first place.
But hell yeah to new music.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on May 21, 2020 6:55:25 GMT -5
She said nothing but the truth though. Pop fans scream that they want personal and authentic music yet the moment someone does exactly that they're called problematic as if there's no way their life wasn't plastered with roses, rainbows and candy floss. It's also telling of her critic's stupidity that the cult-like following she has amassed over the years is there for a reason they don't seem to grasp. They relate to her in a way that her pg-13 peers don't as they're only as good as their last hit whereas she needs NONE of that to remain musically relevant because guess what? Real life experiences are always relevant whether them being positive, negative or somewhere in between. I just can't at the stupidity of the internet. She makes SELFISH music. Yes, selfish. Music that perhaps only she can relate to to the fullest degree. She makes music inspired by her own life so how in the hell do these people expect her to represent a whole entire gender when she herself has never expressed any desire to do so? That's actually the exact opposite of what feminism stands for. Putting expectations on someone based solely on the fact that they are of a certain gender. Even when she was seemingly glamorizing abusive relationships, that was from a time where her judgement was clouded which, again, is something that does happen irl and she did what she always does; she turned it into music. She might not even realize it but, to me, she's the literal definition of a humanist because she has the braveness to share all these feelings and thoughts with the sole intention of representing no one else but herself through her many talents.
The timing is weird though. I'd expect her to lash out in 2014-2015 when she was called all sorts of things; I think now people have finally started to understand where she's coming from in her story-telling.
Also, NEW ALBUM so soon and we haven't even heard or seen anything yet. As if there was any doubt, she is the summer personified.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on May 21, 2020 8:25:15 GMT -5
So because Lana was "singing her truth" that puts her above critique? I don't agree. The very point of art, whether it's "selfish" or not is to be consumed. Which comes with critique. Once an artist puts a body of work out into the world, they have no control over how it's received or interpreted. Which is something all artists need to accept. This growing trend of artists lashing out on social media against critics is ultra tiring. You don't get to tell someone how they can feel about a body of work.
Her image in combination with her lyrics when she first came out was problematic, PERIOD. Was it her truth at the time? Sure, yeah. But that doesn't matter. There are lyrics in her own songs that she won't sing anymore because she finds them troubling now. Yet critics and music listeners aren't supposed to say anything? You can't have it both ways.
It's very possible for an artist to be real and authentic and also be problematic. The same way it's possible to love an artist and have issues with their point of view and their work at times. Nobody expects Lana to sing about rainbows and roses (although she would do that beautifully). But the idea that because she's singing about her reality she gets some kind of free pass from critique? That's just not how art works.
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Wave.
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Post by Wave. on May 21, 2020 8:33:48 GMT -5
Kehlani doesn't have a number 1 clearly she didn't fact check or proofread before posting this. I'm either waiting for a "hacked", or for her to stand on it.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 21, 2020 9:11:08 GMT -5
It all sounded like she wanted to be a little controversial to make headlines to help promote the new album.
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Wave.
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Post by Wave. on May 21, 2020 9:13:31 GMT -5
Side note: Ling-Ling we gotta get you that avi back! Your trademark.
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PGriffin
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Post by PGriffin on May 21, 2020 9:44:45 GMT -5
Chiii...I'm not reading all of that....NEXT CALLER!!!
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on May 21, 2020 10:31:25 GMT -5
I think she's somewhat off base with the names that she dropped, but (and I recognize I'm saying this as someone who isn't a woman) I don't disagree that she's been unfairly criticized for her lyrical content. I also don't think she's understands what feminism actually is. I am shocked that she actually named names! She went in! I'm personally not a huge fan of what she wrote for a couple reasons. 1. Lana, you didn't invent music. Many women before you did what you're doing. 2. Leave Black women alone. I don't think Lana is criticized more than Nicki or Megan or Beyoncé. 3. What does "I'm not not a feminist" mean? Sis trying to stir the pot to get her name in the headlines. Whatever. Not challenging these to be hostile, but I feel like twitter has kind of taken some of these talking points and run with them in a way that isn't exactly fair to Lana. To your first point, I get that she's probably giving herself too much credit, but in fairness she is the first female artist in a long time to reach that level of exposure with that kind of lyrical content. Generally speaking, the post is about her being unfairly criticized compared to other female artists for her lyrical content is still true, and I don't think she's necessarily wrong to give herself some credit for trending themes uncommon in modern music, especially from women. Like, yeah, it was done a lot 40-50 years ago, but not often today. I don't really get what the race of the women has to do with the names listed tbh. Beyoncé for example has been heavily criticized for a number of reasons, including edited instagram posts, being difficult to relate to, and accusations of targeting other women in the industry (Ciara is the poster child for this), but her body of work has largely been met with critical and commercial success in a way that Lana's has not. Likewise, Nicki has been criticized for a variety of personal conflicts, but her music and artistry has often been met with critical and commercial praise by helping to further the movement to reclaim women's sexuality. Most of the women she's listed here saw success through a feminist lens (and I'm not criticizing that!), and have increasingly done so by being transparent in their lyrics. That context is important, I think. Having said that, I think Lana is grossly oversimplifying her own writing if she thinks she's talking about the same things as any of these women, regardless or age, race, or political affiliation lol. As far as the feminist thing goes, I think that's a generation gap. I'd say she's a feminist in the sense that she's fighting for transparency and honesty in women's lyrics, but I'd wager she sees "feminist" as a far more explicit and specific term when it's actually more general. It's still a f**king dumb thing to say though, I agree lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 10:41:40 GMT -5
I think what she said was fine and should be shared and I also feel she could've stated it without dragging the culture (and Ariana) into her own story. I mean I'm not offended nor think she had ill intentions but yeah take away the first line of her statement nobody would care . As a woman she has the right to discuss her treatment, as a woman she has the right to feel whatever she feels about how she is portrayed so while we should criticize why she felt the need to compare and contrast herself with others is the question because other than that its just opinion on whether you agree or disagree with her. Her ways of expressing her sexuality isnt popular or the norm so I'm sure its frustrating but keep other women out of your space because otherwise it feels like you're saying well " they worse than me!!"
Also I wish twitter would just tell her girl I see your point but fix your delivery instead of foaming at the mouth to destroy her.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on May 21, 2020 12:42:15 GMT -5
"Question for the culture: now that you've allowed all these black and brown women to succeed in the mainstream on a level that I have not, can the mistreated white woman finally get some justice?"
Fixed it.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 21, 2020 12:57:56 GMT -5
The first line of her post comes across to me as being judgey of the women who did sing about "being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking," etc, as if they're more deserving of the critique than her? That's how I read it initially anyway. Tbh I'm not familiar with Lana's music or persona but without any context of who she is, I would have just stopped reading.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 13:31:59 GMT -5
I think she's somewhat off base with the names that she dropped, but (and I recognize I'm saying this as someone who isn't a woman) I don't disagree that she's been unfairly criticized for her lyrical content. I also don't think she's understands what feminism actually is. I'm personally not a huge fan of what she wrote for a couple reasons. 1. Lana, you didn't invent music. Many women before you did what you're doing. 2. Leave Black women alone. I don't think Lana is criticized more than Nicki or Megan or Beyoncé. 3. What does "I'm not not a feminist" mean? Sis trying to stir the pot to get her name in the headlines. Whatever. Not challenging these to be hostile, but I feel like twitter has kind of taken some of these talking points and run with them in a way that isn't exactly fair to Lana. To your first point, I get that she's probably giving herself too much credit, but in fairness she is the first female artist in a long time to reach that level of exposure with that kind of lyrical content. I don't really get what the race of the women has to do with the names listed tbh. As far as the feminist thing goes, I think that's a generation gap. I'd say she's a feminist in the sense that she's fighting for transparency and honesty in women's lyrics, but I'd wager she sees "feminist" as a far more explicit and specific term when it's actually more general. It's still a f**king dumb thing to say though, I agree lol. Amy Winehouse? I think the race of the women has a lot to do with her statement. She's sounding like "wait, so you're letting these Black women succeed by talking about abuse, sex, stripping etc. but I, Karen, can't?" It is untrue that Lana has been criticized more than most of those women she listed, especially with her latest era. The reason why you aren't #1, Lana, is because your music doesn't have mass appeal. (This is especially dodgy in my opinion since she was dating a white cop earlier. Makes me think some subtle anti-Blackness is going on. Could be just me though.) I wouldn't say she's a feminist if she can't say it herself. Doing that would be almost anti-feminist lmao, I'm not deciding whether she's a feminist or not, or a feminist only when it's convenient and white. She can drag Camila all she wants. But the other 6 are talented, smart women that make music that is more palatable. Again, I think she is just trying to garner some attention. Even her fans on Twitter are not having it lmao. this is my favorite, her fans jokingly trying to blame Demi Lovato: But with all that said,
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on May 21, 2020 13:53:14 GMT -5
Amy Winehouse is actually a fair point, but that makes the criticisms lobbied at her at the beginning of her career even more confusing, doesn’t it? That only reinforces my position that she isn’t wrong to feel unfairly marred by critics.
And yes, I’ve seen the twitter memes. The clear a bitch one specifically is why I specifically mentioned that in the past 40-50 years she is one of a handful (now that you’ve reminded me of Amy) to do that. Sans Mary J, but without stripping Mary of her legacy here I don’t feel like those songs framed her career and identity in the way Lana’s did. Mary’s music was thematically about reclaiming power, Lana’s is about submitting to power dynamics and gender roles.
I’m not really going to get into the race thing because, to be quite frank, you’re making a ton of unfounded assumptions about her there.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 14:15:45 GMT -5
Amy Winehouse is actually a fair point, but that makes the criticisms lobbied at her at the beginning of her career even more confusing, doesn’t it? That only reinforces my position that she isn’t wrong to feel unfairly marred by critics. I think not. I think this makes her entire statement and especially the "feminism" part more insincere. Ungrounded criticism is something every woman, and every woman in music faces at one point or another in their life. None of the women she listed are exceptions. She could have made her point to focus more on "why is this a thing," but she went with "why did you stop criticizing them." Which is an anti-Black, anti-feminist, and not very cool sentiment to share with millions of fans. Reminds me of Taylor Swift feminism wave of 2014-15 where she (and her click of supermodels) would tear down other women for not being feminist enough or some shit lmao.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on May 21, 2020 14:51:26 GMT -5
found a tweet that summarizes how I feel:
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Post by adamalterlago on May 21, 2020 17:23:08 GMT -5
UGH. I love Lana, like huge massive fan. As much of a stan that i am, I will admit it when one of my faves does/says some dumb s**t. Do I think she meant anything malicious by this statement? No. Do I think she was even considering most of the women she listed are black? No. And i know what she’s getting at but it was just the wrong way to say it. I don’t know why she felt the need to name drop other females. And as a mixed race gay man, I am disappointed. This doesn’t feel like the Lana I know and love. She is on SUCH a wave right now from NFR and the AOTY Grammy nomination (which she should have won). I wonder how this will effect everything?
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schnetzka
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The album that never ends... I mean 'THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT: THE ANTHOLOGY' out now!
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Post by schnetzka on May 21, 2020 17:32:38 GMT -5
Should she have worded it differently? Absolutely. But we really need to stop this "canceling" of someone after they said something wrong. Every living person will be canceled within the next few years if this keeps up.
People got the gist of what she meant. She shouldn't have name-dropped but it happened and there's no turning back. I hope this blows over because no one deserves to continue to receive scrutiny for a mistake.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on May 21, 2020 17:36:23 GMT -5
No one will remember this in 2 weeks. Who cares?
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Post by JOJO SIWA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME on May 21, 2020 18:01:54 GMT -5
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Post by adamalterlago on May 21, 2020 18:04:52 GMT -5
Girl...
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Crimsonio
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Post by Crimsonio on May 21, 2020 18:08:58 GMT -5
She didn't lie about Camila Cabello
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 18:11:48 GMT -5
Nnn, this is messy
But why she gotta bring up Kehlani
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Future Captain
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Post by Future Captain on May 21, 2020 18:39:47 GMT -5
Quarantine really bring out the messiest out of everyone huh
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