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Post by wayneashleymusic on May 28, 2020 4:02:14 GMT -5
Let's just say what needs to be said... For far too long, the Western music industry, and in particular, the American music industry, has done its level best to separate from itself the artistry of the African continent. Even as the late 2010s saw the long-held notions of how language barriers somehow kept us away from the rest of the world, as some areas like Latin diaspora and K-Pop / J-Pop see a radical welcome, the African Diaspora continues to be largely ignored by the industry.
Admittedly, it was a welcome change to see some African artists featured on Billboard's latest issue, classified there as "Breakout stars" (who in the industry doesn't know Davido at this point??), but lipservice in one magazine cover is just no longer sufficient. When are we going to begin to see music of the African Diaspora recognized in a new Billboard chart? Same goes for the Recording Academy/ Grammys... how long do we have to wait for Grammy Awards which celebrate the best in African Diasporic music?!?!
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Would love to hear yours.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on May 28, 2020 11:03:05 GMT -5
K-Pop has seen a concerted and very well funded effort to make music with commercial appeal that is promoted worldwide and also has significant support from the Korean government as part of their foreign policy. They've gone all out in pursuing the international teen market with high budget music videos, very pop sounding songs that have a very American influenced sound, clean-cut singers that all look like models with a carefully curated public image, choreographed dancing, etc...
The Latin American diaspora in the United States is huge. I think the second biggest is the Chinese diaspora and they're 10x less numerous. The fact that Latin culture is a European culture and therefore pretty similar to American culture helps, but Spanish/Spanish-American music is still much more successful in the US than German, French or Portuguese/Brazilian music so I think the large diaspora is still a big factor.
I think a better comparison would be Arabic, Indian, Chinese and the music of the various SE Asian countries.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 11:18:22 GMT -5
Money
Japan and South Korea have among the world's largest music markets and there's been a considerable amount of money put toward breaking acts who are currently big in those markets in the Western market. Some Spanish-speaking countries also have large music markets like Mexico and Spain. Spanish is also one of the most spoken languages in the US, so there's a large market for Latin music in the US. Even then, we're only talking about a handful of countries who have managed to break non-English music in the US.. it's not like African countries are being singled out. What about Indian music? Chinese music?
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Post by wayneashleymusic on May 28, 2020 12:41:44 GMT -5
Money Japan and South Korea have among the world's largest music markets and there's been a considerable amount of money put toward breaking acts who are currently big in those markets in the Western market. Some Spanish-speaking countries also have large music markets like Mexico and Spain. Spanish is also one of the most spoken languages in the US, so there's a large market for Latin music in the US. Even then, we're only talking about a handful of countries who have managed to break non-English music in the US.. it's not like African countries are being singled out. What about Indian music? Chinese music? Good points, but I would also argue that Americans generally have a much smaller knowledge base about African music and culture even than the do about India or China. The Indian film industry is an example where our cultures share some relatively good interaction. But even that could not be said at all for African countries. At least... not out loud, because another side to this is the fact that SO MUCH of the American music industry is inspired by music and culture of the African continent, it just doesn't get recognized as such. BTW from my limited travels, the UK seems to give more recognition and appreciation to African music and culture than the US, and that's been especially so in the last decade. Is that an industry difference, or an audience difference?
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 12:53:32 GMT -5
Money Japan and South Korea have among the world's largest music markets and there's been a considerable amount of money put toward breaking acts who are currently big in those markets in the Western market. Some Spanish-speaking countries also have large music markets like Mexico and Spain. Spanish is also one of the most spoken languages in the US, so there's a large market for Latin music in the US. Even then, we're only talking about a handful of countries who have managed to break non-English music in the US.. it's not like African countries are being singled out. What about Indian music? Chinese music? Good points, but I would also argue that Americans generally have a much smaller knowledge base about African music and culture even than the do about India or China. The Indian film industry is an example where our cultures share some relatively good interaction. But even that could not be said at all for African countries. Right. That's my point... that one would expect Indian or Chinese music to find a footing in the US more easily than music out of any country in Africa, based on various factors, but Indian and Chinese music haven't made an impact in the US like Latin music or K-Pop.. so if Americans are less knowledgeable of African culture/language, etc. than those (we're also comparing countries to an entire continent)., why would African music make a splash in the US before those?
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Post by wayneashleymusic on May 28, 2020 13:26:55 GMT -5
Good points, but I would also argue that Americans generally have a much smaller knowledge base about African music and culture even than the do about India or China. The Indian film industry is an example where our cultures share some relatively good interaction. But even that could not be said at all for African countries. Right. That's my point... that one would expect Indian or Chinese music to find a footing in the US more easily than music out of any country in Africa, based on various factors, but Indian and Chinese music haven't made an impact in the US like Latin music or K-Pop.. so if Americans are less knowledgeable of African culture/language, etc. than those (we're also comparing countries to an entire continent)., why would African music make a splash in the US before those? Because there's a much larger African Diaspora in the US than there is a Chinese or Indian Diaspora. And I do appreciate you saying it's always a rough comparison because Africa is an entire continent and not a country, so that's true from one perspective. OTOH, with China and India over 1 billion people each, and the African continent also at 1 billion, the populations are similarly sized. But from a population perspective, there are many more people in the US of African descent than there are of Asian descent.... nearly triple the number. And that's not even going into the debate about how Latin and African cultures intersect. So from a base potential, it would seem like African music and culture should be better recognized in a country where they have stronger roots. No offense to Chinese, Indian music, or K-Pop!!
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Post by Naos on May 28, 2020 13:38:41 GMT -5
Africa often has less development than countries in the Americas or Asia, so they can't really spread their music as far. Also, the African "diaspora" is a bit different, as due to slavery, a lot of African-Americans have little knowledge of their roots. There's much more a cultural disconnect between an African and African-American as opposed to an Asian and Asian-American.
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Post by wayneashleymusic on May 28, 2020 14:12:23 GMT -5
Africa often has less development than countries in the Americas or Asia, so they can't really spread their music as far. Also, the African "diaspora" is a bit different, as due to slavery, a lot of African-Americans have little knowledge of their roots. There's much more a cultural disconnect between an African and African-American as opposed to an Asian and Asian-American. Agreed, BUT all of these things are changing rapidly. We no longer have to depend on distributors schlepping physical product across a landscape to generate sales, so it's easier than ever to forge those cultural connections which have been so starved in the past. And for all the African-Americans that have very little knowledge of their roots, many like me are actively seeking out those connections, which is why I can walk into a Stonebwoy, Burna Boy or Jidenna concert in Houston, Texas and find a sold out crowds of 5,000 plus people, but then be left to wonder why their music has absolutely ZERO impact on American Charts. Meanwhile, a band that I've never heard of has racked up Billboard articles when they've never played to a US crowd of more than 250. I think the industry needs to catch up.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on May 28, 2020 16:23:33 GMT -5
It's not just slavery either, but also the distance time creates. German Americans arrived in the country about as many generations ago and are equally numerous, but aside from a small minority (ex the Amish) they've fully adopted broader American culture. IMO German Americans are no more likely to consume German artists than Americans as a whole.
African Americans have definitely retained some African influence in the music they make, and that has and is definitely having a major impact on the charts.
I think the reason why the UK gives more recognition to African culture is their ties to Africa have lasted longer because their colonies gained independence much more recently than the end of slavery. They've also maintained ties to those African countries after they reached independence, which includes a lot of immigration.
% of population born in Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa since most immigrants from there were white) 1.7% - UK 1.1% - Canada 0.8% - US
I agree that there's a lot of Africans looking to re-discover their roots though, and the success of movies like Black Panther draws on that, and mainstream publications like Billboard are often behind the curve when it comes to reporting on those kinds of trends. I'd be curious who that band that's never played to more than 250 with several Billboard articles is though.
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Post by wayneashleymusic on May 28, 2020 19:46:06 GMT -5
It's not just slavery either, but also the distance time creates. German Americans arrived in the country about as many generations ago and are equally numerous, but aside from a small minority (ex the Amish) they've fully adopted broader American culture. IMO German Americans are no more likely to consume German artists than Americans as a whole. African Americans have definitely retained some African influence in the music they make, and that has and is definitely having a major impact on the charts. I think the reason why the UK gives more recognition to African culture is their ties to Africa have lasted longer because their colonies gained independence much more recently than the end of slavery. They've also maintained ties to those African countries after they reached independence, which includes a lot of immigration. % of population born in Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa since most immigrants from there were white) 1.7% - UK 1.1% - Canada 0.8% - US I agree that there's a lot of Africans looking to re-discover their roots though, and the success of movies like Black Panther draws on that, and mainstream publications like Billboard are often behind the curve when it comes to reporting on those kinds of trends. I'd be curious who that band that's never played to more than 250 with several Billboard articles is though. That may be part of it. But the other part of it is that the UK has more respect for African culture in general than the US. African culture in the US seems to always be subverted and tends to get caught in our struggling issues with race. And of course, the UK has many MANY struggles around race as well, but from my limited experience in the country, it seems to be better. I think music and entertainment have a lot to do with that. Does a Billboard chart really matter?? Maybe not, but it is a way to increase visibility and let potential investors and audience members know what to look for. I don't see it as a coincidence that so many areas of black culture are generally subverted in America. It seems to be something that the industry has, so far, not been interesting in exploring. Which is why I'm SO GLAD we're finally starting the conversation here.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on May 29, 2020 15:47:44 GMT -5
With regard to Grammys, I think Angélique Kidjo has at least four. I don't think a "Best African Album" category would make sense... Nigeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Angola, Seychelles, etc. are different counties with very different cultures... it wouldn't make sense to group their musical artists together in a category.
Just want to acknowledge, Hugh Masekela hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 back in 1968.
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boscy
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Post by boscy on May 31, 2020 12:14:42 GMT -5
SiriusXM ought to have 2 African Music channels, one would play oldies from Mory Kante, Miriam Makeba, Papa Wemba, Ali Farka Touré, Fela Kuti, King Sunny Adé, Manu Dibango, Johnny Clegg, Soukous All Stars, and others.
The other station would play current acts such as Bombino, Vieux Farka Toure, Angélique Kidjo, Youssou N'Dour, Tinariwen, Dissidenten, Tarika, Sierra Leone's Refugee All Stars, and others. African guitarists mentioned above and Tosin Abasi deserve more wider exposure. Tosin Abasi is popular with guitar aficionados.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 5:41:53 GMT -5
K-pop is not traditional Korean music, it is rather Korean Western music, so you do not expect American radio to play Korean traditional music as well as African folk music. American radio is right now playing a lot of Albanian music by Albanian artists(from Kosovo), but this is not Albanian traditional music. Vieux Farka Toure, Angélique Kidjo, Youssou N'Dour, Tinariwen are based on African folk music and not exactly pop artists. Here is the next number one on Billboard hot 100:
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Jun 2, 2020 11:07:10 GMT -5
It's not just slavery either, but also the distance time creates. German Americans arrived in the country about as many generations ago and are equally numerous, but aside from a small minority (ex the Amish) they've fully adopted broader American culture. IMO German Americans are no more likely to consume German artists than Americans as a whole. African Americans have definitely retained some African influence in the music they make, and that has and is definitely having a major impact on the charts. I think the reason why the UK gives more recognition to African culture is their ties to Africa have lasted longer because their colonies gained independence much more recently than the end of slavery. They've also maintained ties to those African countries after they reached independence, which includes a lot of immigration. % of population born in Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa since most immigrants from there were white) 1.7% - UK 1.1% - Canada 0.8% - US I agree that there's a lot of Africans looking to re-discover their roots though, and the success of movies like Black Panther draws on that, and mainstream publications like Billboard are often behind the curve when it comes to reporting on those kinds of trends. I'd be curious who that band that's never played to more than 250 with several Billboard articles is though. That may be part of it. But the other part of it is that the UK has more respect for African culture in general than the US. African culture in the US seems to always be subverted and tends to get caught in our struggling issues with race. And of course, the UK has many MANY struggles around race as well, but from my limited experience in the country, it seems to be better. I'm sorry, i couldn't stop laughing after you said the UK has respect for African culture. What you need to do is understand that black American culture is not African culture and vice versa. You want to talk about issues of race, start by not insinuating that black Americans aren't African enough for your liking.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Jun 2, 2020 20:37:53 GMT -5
Gotta give a shoutout to my lady, Helen Folasade Adu, CBE, Nigerian-born princess who has sold 75 million+ albums worldwide.
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Jun 3, 2020 10:17:07 GMT -5
African music remains highly unheard of in the US, however thanks to Nigerian artists like WizKid and Mr. Eazi I've actually heard it on the radio more than ever before in the past 3 or 4 years. This small but significant start tells me it's on the rise.
Also, in the house world South Africa's Black Coffee is making a big name for himself.
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Post by After Minutes on Jun 3, 2020 17:09:53 GMT -5
It isn't getting the promo needed to cross over
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Post by wayneashleymusic on Jun 5, 2020 4:30:25 GMT -5
That may be part of it. But the other part of it is that the UK has more respect for African culture in general than the US. African culture in the US seems to always be subverted and tends to get caught in our struggling issues with race. And of course, the UK has many MANY struggles around race as well, but from my limited experience in the country, it seems to be better. I'm sorry, i couldn't stop laughing after you said the UK has respect for African culture. What you need to do is understand that black American culture is not African culture and vice versa. You want to talk about issues of race, start by not insinuating that black Americans aren't African enough for your liking. I never insinuated that at all. But you've watched Black Panther, right? So the issues of how Black Americans as a collective are on a journey to find and better connect to their roots is well documented. And by saying that it's "better" in the UK, that doesn't mean to imply that recognition of the African continent's music scene is great. But in the US it nears zero.
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Post by wayneashleymusic on Jul 25, 2020 6:14:56 GMT -5
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Post by Kishi KCM on Aug 2, 2020 12:16:01 GMT -5
I enjoy the Kizomba genre, it's Afro-Portuguese zouk-like music that's big in Angola, Cape Verde, Portugal, and Portuguese-speaking communities in Paris, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Berlin, London, Milan, Zurich, New England, etc.). Would love to see artists like Yasmine, Jossyln, Djodje, Badoxa, Denis Graca and Jennifer Dias and the genre itself get some love globally .
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Post by Keelzit on Aug 2, 2020 23:55:24 GMT -5
Why would the US of all places be open to traditional music from other countries though? You won't ever hear traditional Greek, Polynesian, Chinese, etc music on the radio either because it just wouldn't make any sense. With that being said, I think African music is one of the most recognisable genres worldwide because of how distinct it is. Most people would not be able to point out the specific African country it derives from but they would recognise that it comes from the continent.
Btw which genre is considered the USA's traditional music? I'm assuming folk? But even that is a broad term because every country has it own folk which, from my understanding, has become a genre of its own and is completely separated from traditional music.
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Post by wayneashleymusic on Sept 8, 2020 15:15:26 GMT -5
Why would the US of all places be open to traditional music from other countries though? You won't ever hear traditional Greek, Polynesian, Chinese, etc music on the radio either because it just wouldn't make any sense. With that being said, I think African music is one of the most recognisable genres worldwide because of how distinct it is. Most people would not be able to point out the specific African country it derives from but they would recognise that it comes from the continent. Btw which genre is considered the USA's traditional music? I'm assuming folk? But even that is a broad term because every country has it own folk which, from my understanding, has become a genre of its own and is completely separated from traditional music. Really in truth... tranditional genres which originated in the US would be first the Blues. And then from that would be Jazz, American folk, and American Country music, all of which have solid roots from the Blues. And of origin of the Blues?? American slaves and their children whom have roots in (you guessed it) Africa.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Sept 10, 2020 9:13:33 GMT -5
I like Jidenna but his 2019 album sold like 12 copies. doing shows at thousand seat auditoriums isn't exactly an industry takeover. Coeur de Pirate has sold out shows in the US too, but I don't think we need a fracophone chart in America.
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