GP
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Post by GP on Jul 14, 2020 10:16:07 GMT -5
Radio and sales, just everything in general favor Male Artist. But if the chart was streaming only, based on HDD streaming chart top 50 would have 7 songs lead by a female artist (one of them is a co-lead, Heartless). That's 14 per cent! Basically, there would be few rap hits and rap album tracks and nothing else most of the time. Songs like Break My Heart, The Bones, I Hope would be nowhere near top 20 and Rain on Me would be a borderline case depending what albums are released on any given week. Break My Heart could have been a top10, it was #11 on RS during the album week >  |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 10:17:26 GMT -5
Maybe I’m missing context or sarcasm but it looks like streaming does favour male artists. It was not sarcasm. The point made was Streaming does favour male artist, So did sales go and look at the bestselling albums each year (only 2-3-4 (rerely) are from females).
The table was because before 2015 streaming wasn't counted, and still the most females in top 10 was 4, 2013 had only 1. Yes in recent years (2017-now) there are more males (because the biggest genre called Hip-Hop is 90% males).
Point made was streaming favours male artists , so did sales and everything else, so it is nothing new it is nothing related to streams.
Edit: MOST IMPORTANT LINE from my previous comment: streaming isn't favouring anyone any more than sales were in the past.
So...because sales and radio also favour male artists as streaming does, that somehow means streaming doesn’t? I don’t get it. We know the industry (and society as a whole) favours male artists and men. Acknowledging it doesn’t magically make it not true. |
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Jul 14, 2020 10:23:28 GMT -5
Edit: MOST IMPORTANT LINE from my previous comment: streaming isn't favouring anyone any more than sales were in the past.
So...because sales and radio also favour male artists as streaming does, that somehow means streaming doesn’t? I don’t get it. We know the industry (and society as a whole) favours male artists and men. Acknowledging it doesn’t magically make it not true. Read this line. pls
I said that everything is favouring males, and streaming isn't an exception. It doesn't favour males any more that other formats did in the past. The whole conversaion started when someone said streaming favours males over females more. Well of course it does, evrything in the industry does. And streaming is no exception.
We actually agree but you are missunderstanding what i am trying to say.
Edit: Just to make clear what i was pointing out in the table.
in 1990 the top 10 females sold 10Million total. The top 10 males sold 25 Million total. In 2019 the top 10 females got 10Billion streams. The top 10 males got 25 Billion streams.
This was my point with random numbers. Outside of top 10 because of hip-hop's popularity things are more male favoured (i will repeat myself Hip-Hop is 90%+ male).
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GP
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Post by GP on Jul 14, 2020 10:24:33 GMT -5
poor Selena, Rare OUT already :/
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jul 14, 2020 10:26:17 GMT -5
Well the format is “classic” so they have the rights to play the same 10 songs from years ago lol. Top 40 is branded as “the current hits” but playing majority songs that consumers stopped personally consuming months ago. Urban radio atleast actually is still largely playing current / upcoming hits, any time I listen to radio now I’m playing that current format solely. Toosie Slide, Savage, Life Is Good, and the likes already are far down the charts. Go Crazy is already #1 in its 9th week charting. Clearly people are still enjoying them if radio keeps playing them. This whole idea that radio listeners = streaming listeners needs to stop being a thing. Okay but Circles & Dont Start Now (along with the 2019 hits in power rotation) are classified as recurrents on radio charts. They are no longer current hits to the radio industry themself. |
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jul 14, 2020 10:28:21 GMT -5
Is it possible for recurrent song be #1 on airplay? LOL
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 10:28:27 GMT -5
So...because sales and radio also favour male artists as streaming does, that somehow means streaming doesn’t? I don’t get it. We know the industry (and society as a whole) favours male artists and men. Acknowledging it doesn’t magically make it not true. Read this line. pls
I said that everything is favouring males, and streaming isn't an exception. I doesn't favour males any more that other formats did in the past. The whole conversaion started when someone said streaming facours males over females more. Well of course it does, evrything in the industry does. And streaming is no exception.
We actually agree but you are missunderstanding what i am trying to say.
Ah okay - I gotcha now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do wonder whether there might be something in the streaming favouring male acts more than other mediums though. It isn’t overly common that a woman does well on streaming, is there? Are there notable cases in recent years? I ask because when Rain On Me made the top ten, it was kind of a big deal that a pop song and a song without men was as high as it was. Compare that to albums and the overall Hot 100 where women do tend to do decently and even if the top ten annual album sales reflect what you pointed out earlier, how do the overall sales totals fall or if we looked at the year end top 100 look? It is interesting because streaming is a fairly recent medium and tends to lean younger. I know it also favours rap which tends to be male dominant but it’s interesting that women are doing as poorly as they are among younger listeners. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 10:31:41 GMT -5
Clearly people are still enjoying them if radio keeps playing them. This whole idea that radio listeners = streaming listeners needs to stop being a thing. Okay but Circles & Dont Start Now (along with the 2019 hits in power rotation) are classified as recurrents on radio charts. They are no longer current hits to the radio industry themself. Using an arbitrary time-based measure that has shifted over the years. In any case, radio has always played recurrents. Radio listeners rely on familiarity, now more than ever, and in an age of COVID, things are going even slower all around. I’m not even really sure what it is you’re arguing against. Songs have longer life spans than ever before - in some cases. Cutting radio from the Hot 100 isn’t going to change that. |
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jul 14, 2020 10:35:41 GMT -5
Streaming also rely on familiarity, just look at the GHs on album chart.
I'd say in general, there are bubbles where consuming the new music is super diverse but in terms of older music, everyone listens to same songs over and over again (Africa, DSB, Queen etc).
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thelegends
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Post by thelegends on Jul 14, 2020 10:42:50 GMT -5
Is the Covid-19 lockdown responsible for such slow turnover rates on pop radio? It just seems that when many people aren’t going to work or school, it gives an excuse for radio to keep on playing songs that peaked 4-6 months ago. A quick question, if that’s the logic behind it, then why are audience numbers the same as pre-pandemic? |
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lazer
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Post by lazer on Jul 14, 2020 10:52:33 GMT -5
I don't care if people are too attached the songs playing over and over just because they are familar, the radio has to play new songs to keep up with the times. The radio has been hesitant to bring songs like Supalonely, Rain On Me, and other songs to the top ten quickly. It's good to try new things.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Jul 14, 2020 10:56:56 GMT -5
I had to lower my radio audience way below what I had been using before the last couple of days to show more songs today.
kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates 2020/07/14
1(=) The Weeknd - Blinding Lights 146.40(-0.04)
2(=) Harry Styles - Adore You 125.25(-0.34) 3(=) Megan Thee Stallion - Savage Remix (feat. Beyoncé) 104.89(-0.49)
4(=) DaBaby - ROCKSTAR (feat. Roddy Ricch) 102.47(+1.45)
5(=) Dua Lipa - Don't Start Now 97.24(-1.10)
6(=) Post Malone - Circles 96.70(-0.76)
7(+2) Dua Lipa - Break My Heart 96.09(+1.30)
8(-1) Doja Cat - Say So 95.42(-1.66)
9(+1) SAINt JHN - Roses (Imanbek Remix) 94.18(+0.96)
10(-2) Justin Bieber - Intentions (feat. Quavo) 93.59(-1.98)
11(+1) Harry Styles - Watermelon Sugar 83.25(+2.96)
17(+1) Jack Harlow - WHATS POPPIN (Remix) [feat. DaBaby, Tory Lanez & Lil Wayne] 62.67(+0.60)
19(=) Chris Brown & Young Thug - Go Crazy 62.16(+0.61)
26(+1) Miranda Lambert - Bluebird 51.04(+0.66)
37(=) Maddie & Tae - Die From A Broken Heart 41.35(+0.65) 38(=) Young T & Bugsey - Don't Rush (feat. Headie One) 40.57(+0.55)
80(+8) Trevor Daniel & Selena Gomez - Past Life 21.03(+1.65)
84(=) Lil Baby - The Bigger Picture 20.54(+0.55)
-(-) Jawsh 685 X Jason Derulo - Savage Love (Laxed-Siren Beat) 15.99(+1.04
-(-) Prince Royce - Carita De Inocente 14.42(+0.73) -(-) Saweetie - Tap In 13.55(+0.53)
-(-) Ozuna - Caramelo 10.33(+0.51)
-(-) Charlie Wilson - One I Got 5.24(+0.58)
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Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ
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Post by Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ on Jul 14, 2020 10:59:44 GMT -5
I think 🍉 sugar will be the next #1 on radio.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 11:02:42 GMT -5
Streaming also rely on familiarity, just look at the GHs on album chart. I'd say in general, there are bubbles where consuming the new music is super diverse but in terms of older music, everyone listens to same songs over and over again (Africa, DSB, Queen etc). Even with my own listening, when I look at songs I listen to that are older than a couple years, there is a lot of repetition in there. I've selected tracks or specific hits from artists, or return to certain albums much more than others. I think most of us who have been listening to music for longer than 2-5 years do the same. We all have our favourites. The national results (streaming, etc) just show that in a larger scale. Is the Covid-19 lockdown responsible for such slow turnover rates on pop radio? It just seems that when many people aren’t going to work or school, it gives an excuse for radio to keep on playing songs that peaked 4-6 months ago. A quick question, if that’s the logic behind it, then why are audience numbers the same as pre-pandemic? I assume they haven't been re-calibrated. My guess is that the lower audience numbers were presumed to be short-term and audience numbers tend to be done for advertising. Stations with lower audience numbers can't charge as much for airtime and therefore get less ad dollars. In that regard, it makes sense why they wouldn't see a need to update the numbers. But if lower listening extends beyond a few months (as it has already I'm guessing), then the numbers should perhaps be updated. I don't care if people are too attached the songs playing over and over just because they are familar, the radio has to play new songs to keep up with the times. The radio has been hesitant to bring songs like Supalonely, Rain On Me, and other songs to the top ten quickly. It's good to try new things. Tell that to people who change the station when they start hearing too many songs they don't know. Unfortunately, radio has to introduce new songs to their playlists gradually so unless it's a song people already know, or already know of (such as a new single by a big name act), it's not likely radio will jump on them. That's why songs are taking longer and longer to climb the chart. |
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GP
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Post by GP on Jul 14, 2020 11:02:48 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't speak on radio that much but it seems so simple to me. Radio is slower than the already a little bit slow US charts. It's still super important to measure the consumption of music and what people are listening to. Should radio be faster? Absolutely. Do I get why it's not as fast as it used to be? Totally.
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atg
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Post by atg on Jul 14, 2020 11:11:10 GMT -5
2020 is getting worse by the minute Another desperate attempt to reach #1 by Bieber even though he wouldn't get credited. Remind me of what happened with Bad Guy. Imagine it’s another ‘loyal’ situation where it’s credited as “Jack Harlow ft Dababy (+crew) or Justin Bieber” |
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Post by Golden Bluebird on Jul 14, 2020 11:19:56 GMT -5
Is the Covid-19 lockdown responsible for such slow turnover rates on pop radio? It just seems that when many people aren’t going to work or school, it gives an excuse for radio to keep on playing songs that peaked 4-6 months ago. A quick question, if that’s the logic behind it, then why are audience numbers the same as pre-pandemic? They're not. They've recalibrated radio airplay a few times these last several weeks, which have reduced airplay numbers pretty considerably. However, the last time they recalibrated radio, it actually benefited airplay slightly, which might be why "Circles" reentered the top 10 a few weeks ago. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jul 14, 2020 11:28:56 GMT -5
Okay but Circles & Dont Start Now (along with the 2019 hits in power rotation) are classified as recurrents on radio charts. They are no longer current hits to the radio industry themself. Using an arbitrary time-based measure that has shifted over the years. In any case, radio has always played recurrents. Radio listeners rely on familiarity, now more than ever, and in an age of COVID, things are going even slower all around. I’m not even really sure what it is you’re arguing against. Songs have longer life spans than ever before - in some cases. Cutting radio from the Hot 100 isn’t going to change that. Huh? I said the issue isn’t cutting radio from Hot 100 in my first post you literally quoted... The problem isn't radio being included imo, but radio's fckin lack of pace as of recent. . I said it was the pace of radio that’s the issue and refusing to play things listeners aren’t completely familiar with. Yes I understand your post... they are playing things the audience is completely familiar with because it’s a safe bet for keeping listeners. However at that point what is making them Top 40 radio? What is the difference from an AC or HAC station? They also play radio staples that listeners are already familiar with for the vast majority of their playlist. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 11:33:59 GMT -5
Using an arbitrary time-based measure that has shifted over the years. In any case, radio has always played recurrents. Radio listeners rely on familiarity, now more than ever, and in an age of COVID, things are going even slower all around. I’m not even really sure what it is you’re arguing against. Songs have longer life spans than ever before - in some cases. Cutting radio from the Hot 100 isn’t going to change that. Huh? I said the issue isn’t cutting radio from Hot 100 in my first post you literally quoted... The problem isn't radio being included imo, but radio's fckin lack of pace as of recent. . I said it was the pace of radio that’s the issue and refusing to play things listeners aren’t completely familiar with. Yes I understand your post... they are playing things the audience is completely familiar with because it’s a safe bet for keeping listeners. However at that point what is making them Top 40 radio? What is the difference from an AC or HAC station? They also play radio staples that listeners are already familiar with for the vast majority of their playlist. I guess I was confused because I didn't see any other suggestion. Radio formats change all the time. Top 40 is holding onto songs longer than usual. Hot AC is nothing like it was 20 years ago yet it's still Hot AC. I'm still not really sure what you're proposing. |
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Myth X
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Post by Myth X on Jul 14, 2020 11:54:23 GMT -5
US radio always have been slow. It's nothing new
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jul 14, 2020 12:07:04 GMT -5
I'd say being slow is different to dropping songs very soon and keep playing the very old ones which essentially pop radio is doing now more than before.
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Post by rosalina4812 on Jul 14, 2020 12:16:13 GMT -5
Ever since the age of streaming, Male artists became MORE dominant than ever before. Usually male artists will do better physically due to women's higher inclination to buy albums than men, while female artists will do better on digitally, including radio, because of better general audience appeal and men would commute more on average than women. Now due to streaming, young fans, mostly female, can now choose who they want to listen. This is why pop divas go out of there way to appeal to female fans. Because they are more loyal and have more inclination to buy then male fans do.
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ddlz
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Post by ddlz on Jul 14, 2020 12:30:37 GMT -5
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Jul 14, 2020 13:36:03 GMT -5
Radio wasn't always THIS slow. I know it was less accurate pre-BDS, and once that switch happened we saw several older songs fly back up the chart, but in the early 90s it was inconceivable in July to still be regularly hearing songs that were hits over Christmas. Like in the summer of 1990 you absolutely did not still hear Phil Collins' "Another Day In Paradise" or Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation". They were two or three singles past that at that point. It's sad what's happened to radio over the past 15-20 years.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jul 14, 2020 13:56:05 GMT -5
Ever since the age of streaming, Male artists became MORE dominant than ever before. Usually male artists will do better physically due to women's higher inclination to buy albums than men, while female artists will do better on digitally, including radio, because of better general audience appeal and men would commute more on average than women. Now due to streaming, young fans, mostly female, can now choose who they want to listen. This is why pop divas go out of there way to appeal to female fans. Because they are more loyal and have more inclination to buy then male fans do. Streaming has made male artists have a bigger share of hits/chart placements more than ever this century, definitely. However pre mid 1980s (basically before Madonna/Whitney debuted), the charts were probably worse on average. If I recall in like 1983, on the Top Artists Year-End the highest solo woman was #15. There would also be like 2 or 3 #1's per year with a solo female artist, and that was when the chart had 20+ #1's per year. Lots of times the only female in the top 10 at one point would be a Fleetwood Mac type situation, where they were in a band with male artists also. Male artists just have more general appeal because most straight men only listen to male artists exclusively, and most women also tend to be heavier fans of male artists (BTS, Bieber/One Direction, Backstreet Boys, etc). It's funny when stans do blame 'straight men' for the charts because tbh most women are also listening to these songs. Drake probably has as much, if not more, women megafans than men. I know so many women who love him. I'd say even the most controversial men -- 6IX9INE, Chris Brown, XXX, etc probably have a huge chunk of fans who are women. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 14:07:45 GMT -5
Radio wasn't always THIS slow. I know it was less accurate pre-BDS, and once that switch happened we saw several older songs fly back up the chart, but in the early 90s it was inconceivable in July to still be regularly hearing songs that were hits over Christmas. Like in the summer of 1990 you absolutely did not still hear Phil Collins' "Another Day In Paradise" or Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation". They were two or three singles past that at that point. It's sad what's happened to radio over the past 15-20 years. I remember in 94/95, there were several songs that held on for quite a long time like You Gotta Be, Another Night, Rhythm of the Night, etc. It kind of became normal but then the first recurrent rule was introduced in 1996. From there it was altered a few times to account for radio changing. Back then of course, radio was the primary source of new music for most people. Once the internet became more prominent, that gradually changed. I wouldn't blame radio as much as people's method of music consumption. I've always wished radio was faster at jumping on new music and new artists. |
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degen
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Post by degen on Jul 14, 2020 14:17:16 GMT -5
But it’s not like big streaming hits have a fast turnaround rate. “Old Town Road” broke the record at #1 because it was still being streamed 4 months after it hit #1, and long after radio had dropped it. Radio isn’t the only one going slow, but there are selective major streaming hits (aided by radio) that also seem to never die out. The argument goes both ways.
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m450n
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Post by m450n on Jul 14, 2020 14:27:35 GMT -5
playlist is extremely overrated. do we have any data on playlist effect? because it seems really bad. it probably only adds 30k~50k streams at best for first week and If the song is high on top playlists. also I wouldn't be surprised If people are more into specific mood/feeling/vibe related playlist than TTH type popularity playlist. I don't know about you, but a lot of the time if i'm out with friends or just getting ready I throw on TTH in the background. Playlisting helps A LOT, that's how artists like Lauv, Dominic Fike, Alec Benjamin, etc. thrive. And it's not always TTH either, playlists a quarter of the size of TTH and can still contribute millions of streams. edit: millions of streams overtime, not a week. |
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jul 14, 2020 14:33:20 GMT -5
But it’s not like big streaming hits have a fast turnaround rate. “Old Town Road” broke the record at #1 because it was still being streamed 4 months after it hit #1, and long after radio had dropped it. Radio isn’t the only one going slow, but there are selective major streaming hits (aided by radio) that also seem to never die out. The argument goes both ways. To be fair though, it was those non-UGC streams that made OTR spend so long #1. Actually had that rule been in place it's whole run it would've never even surpassed One Sweet Day. Those non-UGC streams were mega carrying the song its entire run. It was #15 the week before non-UGC streams were removed, dropped to #46 the next week, and left the Hot 100 after altogether. Billboard did end up making a major rule change to end up preventing viral streaming hits from sticking around so long with that rule. But also still, even when songs dominate for awhile on streaming there's always the chance of an album bomb to knock it downward temporarily. With radio even if a superstar released a #1 debut this week it'd still take about 2 months to climb radio and surpass Blinding Lights at this point lol. |
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Jul 14, 2020 14:40:52 GMT -5
Apple Music USA Top 100 - 7/13 Monday -
1.(+1) Juice WRLD & Marshmello - Come & Go
2.(-1) Juice WRLD - Conversations
3.(=) Juice WRLD & Marshmello - Hate the Other Side (feat. Polo G & The Kid LAROI)
4.(=) Juice WRLD - Blood On My Jeans
5.(+4) Pop Smoke - For the Night (feat. Lil Baby & DaBaby)
6.(=) Juice WRLD & Halsey - Life's a Mess
7.(+1) Juice WRLD - Wishing Well
8.(-3) Juice WRLD - Titanic
9.(-2) Juice WRLD - Bad Energy
10.(+4) Pop Smoke - The Woo (feat. 50 Cent & Roddy Ricch)
11.(-1) Juice WRLD - Righteous
12.(+3) DaBaby - ROCKSTAR (feat. Roddy Ricch)
13.(+4) Lil Baby & 42 Dugg - We Paid
14.(-3) Juice WRLD - Stay High
15.(-3) Juice WRLD & Trippie Redd - Tell Me U Luv Me
16.(-3) Juice WRLD - Fighting Demons
17.(+2) Juice WRLD - Up Up and Away
18. Pop Smoke - Got It On Me
19.(-3) Juice WRLD - I Want It
20.(-2) Juice WRLD - Screw Juice
22.(-2) Juice WRLD - Can't Die
25.(-1) Juice WRLD - Man of the Year
31.(-9) Juice WRLD - Get Through It (Interlude)
38.(-17) Juice WRLD - Anxiety (Intro)
52.(-16) Juice WRLD - Juice WRLD Speaks from Heaven (Outro)
53.(-14) Juice WRLD - The Man, The Myth, The Legend (Interlude)
39.(-14) Summer Walker - Let It Go
40.(-12) Summer Walker & PARTYNEXTDOOR - My Affection
56.(-19) Summer Walker & NO1-NOAH - SWV
63.(-20) Summer Walker & NO1-NOAH - White Tee
72.(-26) Summer Walker - Deeper
51.(-11) Kid Cudi & Eminem - The Adventures of Moon Man & Slim Shady
84. Rod Wave - Through The Wire
99.(-1) StaySolidRocky & Lil Uzi Vert - Party Girl (Remix)
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Sunday number was same as Saturday unless their update was very late.
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