iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,549
|
Post by iHype. on Jul 14, 2020 8:38:05 GMT -5
bundling is massive in there too but with different style. I don't think bundles is allowed for charts though? Didn't Prince album failed to chart because it was given away for free with a magazine or sth. Bundles are done in UK a lot just not with tours or merch as shayonce said. 5 Secs of Summer beating Dua Lipa first week had to with a massive amount of signed music and different formats bundled. Do artists really pay big attention to chart placements? I know 6ix9ine obviously does lmao but I don't think it's that important for them to adjust release dates before the decision takes into effect I don’t think someone is going to move up their release schedule, say months ahead, just to use bundles before they are changed. But if someone was releasing 1 or 2 weeks after the changes or planned to release sometime that quarter obviously the label would push them to move it up.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 14, 2020 8:57:12 GMT -5
This rule change now calls into question the ‘accuracy’ of the charts that had these very type of bundles. I’m sure the change was needed but it calls into question Billboard’s own accuracy, or at least the accuracy of trying to measure music consumption at all. It just goes to show there’s different ways to measure and interpret things.
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,878
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 14, 2020 9:53:48 GMT -5
Some think this rule will mean concert-ticket/merchandise/album tie-ins/promotions will have little impact- I'm not so sure. If the cost of an album is reasonably priced - which acts and their teams would want, if it will entice consumers to add it to their purchase - then some buyers well may opt in to add it to that purchase.
The average album-redemption rate with concert tickets was, what, 25% or so? Is it out of the realm of possibility that 25% of ticket buyers would add the act's new album to their purchase? We shall see.
|
|
85la
3x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 3,674
|
Post by 85la on Jul 14, 2020 11:11:30 GMT -5
with this rule, it's safe to say bundle loophole is completely gone. Quite the opposite, I think there is plenty of room left for loopholes. That's why the title and message of this new article/announcement is misleading. In actuality, they are NOT getting rid of tour and merch bundles altogether, they are just making it more restrictive and changing the language a bit. It seems that the main differences are that for physical products, they will count only when shipped (leading to more spread out points for a song's chart run, and making it more difficult to orchestrate a high debut), and that for bundles, they just have to disclose the price of the album/single and have it available as a "separate add-on," but is there even going to be a minimum price for this add-on? Like, does this allow for a "throw this in at no additional cost" type of thing? I think they used to have a minimum album price of $3.99 for the first four weeks of an album's release if it were to count for the charts, but I don't know if that will apply.
|
|
Myth X
Platinum Member
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 1,163
|
Post by Myth X on Jul 14, 2020 11:50:12 GMT -5
No more #1 albums for Madonna, Bon Jovi and Celine after this rule
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Jul 14, 2020 12:28:52 GMT -5
with this rule, it's safe to say bundle loophole is completely gone. Quite the opposite, I think there is plenty of room left for loopholes. That's why the title and message of this new article/announcement is misleading. In actuality, they are NOT getting rid of tour and merch bundles altogether, they are just making it more restrictive and changing the language a bit. It seems that the main differences are that for physical products, they will count only when shipped (leading to more spread out points for a song's chart run, and making it more difficult to orchestrate a high debut), and that for bundles, they just have to disclose the price of the album/single and have it available as a "separate add-on," but is there even going to be a minimum price for this add-on? Like, does this allow for a "throw this in at no additional cost" type of thing? I think they used to have a minimum album price of $3.99 for the first four weeks of an album's release if it were to count for the charts, but I don't know if that will apply. what you said is not loop hole at all. selling physical single and getting counted when they're shipped is not loophole. the minimum price is already there.($3.49) and has been used with January merch rule. (T-shirt $21.5 / T-shirt+Album $25, most of them add album at $3.5 value) Also from Billboard "with the album cost undisclosed to the consumer, will no longer be counted. " add-on will be like this. but with T-shirt only option added. kelseaballerini.shop.musictoday.com/product/X9COMBOKB11/limited-edition-the-other-girl-tie-dye-tee-kelsea-bundle?cp=null
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Jul 14, 2020 12:33:27 GMT -5
Some think this rule will mean concert-ticket/merchandise/album tie-ins/promotions will have little impact- I'm not so sure. If the cost of an album is reasonably priced - which acts and their teams would want, if it will entice consumers to add it to their purchase - then some buyers well may opt in to add it to that purchase. The average album-redemption rate with concert tickets was, what, 25% or so? Is it out of the realm of possibility that 25% of ticket buyers would add the act's new album to their purchase? We shall see. people don't buy album in this days. and cheap price is not bundle issue. but price issue. this new rule is simply just "hey! pay extra $ and buy album too". I mean selling album at cheap price is nothing new. but there's reason why none of them do it. like.. they all can sell their album at $3.5 on itunes/amazon/merch shop. all counted and fine. and 25% avg was when people though it's free album with no extra cost.
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Jul 14, 2020 12:48:48 GMT -5
btw, the artist/label already found new loop hole. it's D2C shop download and autographed CD/poster. trollz massive sales were coming from fans buying downloads, not the physical bundle. stuck with you sales were same and also from autographed CD. so we will see massive single sales again, but now limited to pop artists as their fan is obsessed with chart.
|
|
|
Post by KeepDeanWeird on Jul 14, 2020 12:50:57 GMT -5
Some think this rule will mean concert-ticket/merchandise/album tie-ins/promotions will have little impact- I'm not so sure. If the cost of an album is reasonably priced - which acts and their teams would want, if it will entice consumers to add it to their purchase - then some buyers well may opt in to add it to that purchase. The average album-redemption rate with concert tickets was, what, 25% or so? Is it out of the realm of possibility that 25% of ticket buyers would add the act's new album to their purchase? We shall see. Is the lowest list price still $4.99 for first few weeks AKA the "Born The Way" rule? There's no reason why they can't offer album at low price. In fact, what's stopping them from $0.99 after 4 weeks? That's the work around if legacy acts still want new music to reach people.
|
|
chartfreak
Diamond Member
Enter your message here...
Joined: December 2005
Posts: 10,298
|
Post by chartfreak on Jul 14, 2020 13:20:55 GMT -5
Probably the end of #1 albums for acts like Madonna, Bon Jovi. etc. who would debut at #1 due to bundles and then tumble. Most Madonna fans would choose to include the album.
|
|
chartfreak
Diamond Member
Enter your message here...
Joined: December 2005
Posts: 10,298
|
Post by chartfreak on Jul 14, 2020 13:31:41 GMT -5
New bundle rules for singles: - Doing bundles with physical CDs/Vinyls will no longer count as bundled digital sales the same week. - Any physical CD/Vinyls sales will not count until the week the item is shipped. New bundle rules for albums: - Tour bundles now have to be "opt-ins", meaning a ticket is sold without bundles, but the customer can check a box/option that allows them to add the bundle to their purchase Since some sales won't count until shipped, does that mean we can see some odd movements on the chart? Or will the impact be minimal?
|
|
kanimal
3x Platinum Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,043
|
Post by kanimal on Jul 14, 2020 15:26:09 GMT -5
^ The "doesn't count until shipped" rule was primarily to address the following tactic:
*Artist realizes they can hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 if they sell 25K extra copies. *Artist announces signed/collector's edition CDs or cassettes that will be shipped at a later date (once they're actually produced, since they weren't originally part of the release plan), but if you order one before 11:59:59PM on Thursday night, you can get a digital copy immediately. *That digital copy counts as an immediate sale.
By NEVER counting the "extra" digital sale ... and NOT counting the physical sale until the product ships, Billboard renders this tactic moot. There's no reason to do it anymore, so we shouldn't see some weird impact on the charts 4 weeks after debut, for example.
|
|
|
Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Jul 14, 2020 15:37:25 GMT -5
Some think this rule will mean concert-ticket/merchandise/album tie-ins/promotions will have little impact- I'm not so sure. If the cost of an album is reasonably priced - which acts and their teams would want, if it will entice consumers to add it to their purchase - then some buyers well may opt in to add it to that purchase. The average album-redemption rate with concert tickets was, what, 25% or so? Is it out of the realm of possibility that 25% of ticket buyers would add the act's new album to their purchase? We shall see. Is the lowest list price still $4.99 for first few weeks AKA the "Born The Way" rule? There's no reason why they can't offer album at low price. In fact, what's stopping them from $0.99 after 4 weeks? That's the work around if legacy acts still want new music to reach people. It is still $3.99 and should have been adjusted for inflation by now. And you're right, there's nothing to stop it being priced at the lower price later and still counting.
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,878
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 14, 2020 16:29:39 GMT -5
Just as some acts saw better results than others with album-redemption offers, the same probably will be true with the "add-album" option for future tours.
Also- in the past, I'm sure not everyone thought an album was free when they redeemed copies of the title. Some probably thought, "I'm paying for it anyhow, may as well take action to redeem the copy." And even then, the percentage of those doing so was relatively low vs. how many tickets were sold.
|
|
chartfreak
Diamond Member
Enter your message here...
Joined: December 2005
Posts: 10,298
|
Post by chartfreak on Jul 14, 2020 21:36:36 GMT -5
^ The "doesn't count until shipped" rule was primarily to address the following tactic: *Artist realizes they can hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 if they sell 25K extra copies. *Artist announces signed/collector's edition CDs or cassettes that will be shipped at a later date (once they're actually produced, since they weren't originally part of the release plan), but if you order one before 11:59:59PM on Thursday night, you can get a digital copy immediately. *That digital copy counts as an immediate sale. By NEVER counting the "extra" digital sale ... and NOT counting the physical sale until the product ships, Billboard renders this tactic moot. There's no reason to do it anymore, so we shouldn't see some weird impact on the charts 4 weeks after debut, for example. If they ever made a small profit from it maybe they will continue, but I understand what you mean if the sole purpose was for #1, which it always was, that they just won't do it anymore.
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Jul 16, 2020 15:12:57 GMT -5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=322293&title=OVER-AND-OUT%253A-THE-BIBLE%25E2%2580%2599S-BUNDLE-DISASTERHDD is clown for this article. "What’s more, the revenue from merch bundles has been offsetting lost touring revenue for these acts, whose income has overwhelmingly come from the live side." this take is dumb af. people were buying merch before album bundle and still will buy merch after the new rule, but just without forced +digital album. also nobody bought merch for +digital album.. lol not to mention the price is same with or without album. their revenue is not down at all. in fact as label were taking album cut from merch revenue, so artist got less money. same goes to ticket bundle. only one losing the money is record label.
|
|
kanimal
3x Platinum Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,043
|
Post by kanimal on Jul 16, 2020 17:13:42 GMT -5
It's just a laughable take for Hits Daily Double, which had seemingly advocated for more restrictive bundle rules in the past. That said, the writing was on the wall. There was an article a few weeks ago where they praised Lady Gaga for her strategic and "creative" merch bundles, so this aggressively pro-bundle stance isn't surprising.
The simple reality is that Hits works to position itself as an industry ally and Billboard as the out-of-touch, tyrannical big business ... and many industry power players and labels obviously want bundling to continue. So this is an easy opportunity for them to show their support, even though it lacks credibility.
The other issues:
1) Yes, there is an extent to which rock and country get a raw deal from the streaming platforms; even the biggest artists almost NEVER get good playlist positioning or support. That should be remedied. But the simple reality is that if rock and country albums aren't putting up numbers in 2020 - they don't deserve to hit #1 on the Billboard 200. Kenny Chesney is still going to sell a ton of tickets and make a ton of money regardless of where his album lands on the Billboard 200.
2) While eliminating tour tickets definitely hurts album sales numbers for rock, country and legacy acts, I feel like it's been hip-hop and pop artists who have benefited more greatly from merch bundles? So it's not like they're unaffected here.
3) As noted above, the Hits rant misconstrues the situation. It acts as if people are BUYING the albums - and then accepting the merch and tour tickets as freebies. In reality, it's the exact opposite. The "intent" is for the non-music product. And so there's no reason to expect merch or tour tickets to suffer, insofar as artists continue promoting both properly (and if they don't because it no longer has an impact on the Billboard 200, then it's on them to get their priorities straight).
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,878
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Jul 16, 2020 19:49:49 GMT -5
Yes. HITS had been vocally anti-bundlesdoes, hasn't it? So this sounds rather silly.
Also- there will be an add-on option for albums, though HITS missed that (unless I'm misunderstanding the HITS comment about such).
|
|
Gary
Diamond Member
Joined: January 2014
Posts: 45,643
|
Post by Gary on Jul 17, 2020 6:56:56 GMT -5
Here’s When Billboard's New Bundle-Banning Chart Rules Will Go Into Effect 7/16/2020 by Chris Eggertsen
The biggest changes start in October, but as of now, no new ticket or merch bundles are being approved. Billboard has set start dates for new rule changes to its charts doing away with the controversial practice of "bundling" albums with concert tickets and merchandise to drive market share and music sales. The changes also affect instant digital sales attached to purchases for physical albums delivered at a later date.
Effective immediately, Billboard will no longer approve any new album/ticket bundle offers; moving forward albums will only be counted if promoted as an à la carte add-on sale to a ticket purchase.
For existing, approved offers with an album released on or before Oct. 8, 2020: Redemptions (sales) generated by offer will be accepted for duration of the tour or offer. Sales will be chart eligible, but only for tickets sold through Oct. 8, 2020.
For existing, approved offers with an album released on or after Oct. 9, 2020: Redemptions (sales) generated by offer will be accepted for duration of the tour or offer. However, sales will not be chart eligible and will only count for a title’s release-to-date sales; and only for tickets sold through Oct. 8, 2020.
As for merchandise/album bundles, beginning Oct. 9, no further sales of albums can be reported if bundled with merchandise, even if the album and merchandise are available à la carte. Albums scheduled for release on or before Oct. 8 can report sales generated from the bundles, but only through Oct. 8.
Albums slated for release on or after Oct. 9 cannot report any sales generated from a merchandise bundle -- merchandise being defined as anything that is not the album itself, including (but not limited to) clothing, paper goods, accessories, virtual items, concert presale codes, contest entries with No Purchase Necessary entrance options and fan club access.
As with ticket bundles, beginning Oct. 9, an album must be promoted as an add-on to a merchandise purchase, not baked into the price of the non-album item, and it must not yield any benefits or discounts to the customer, in order to be counted.
Physical format albums sold as part of a finished goods boxed set/package that may contain artist/album-branded merchandise items can continue to count as a sale as normal, but only after advance approval.
When it comes to signed merchandise/album bundles that go on sale between Aug. 7 and Oct. 8, the offers must be live and for sale on the artist’s approved direct-to-consumer store or webstore no later than 11:59:59 p.m. EST on the album’s first day of release to be counted for the charts or for release-to-date sales. Any additional signed merchandise/album bundles offered beyond the album’s first day of release between those dates will not be counted for the charts or release-to-date sales.
New rules governing the bundling of physical albums or singles with immediate digital downloads will also go into effect on Aug. 7. From that date forward, any physical album or single sold with a digital download will not be counted as a digital sale and will only be counted as a physical sale upon shipment to the customer. In cases where multiple physical formats of the same album or single are bundled with digital downloads, only the first physical format that is fulfilled to the customer will be counted.
First announced on Monday, the latest rules are designed to address widespread concerns that an accurate measure of consumer intent -- which has been the basis of the Billboard charts since their inception -- is being undermined by increasingly-common bundling practices. The new guidelines will better ensure that Billboard chart rankings more accurately reflect the conscious purchasing decisions of consumers and level the playing field for all artists.
Though the sales strategy of bundling albums goes back decades, more recently it has been employed by artists and labels to try and boost album sales, which have been continually falling over the last several years but are worth considerably more than streams on the charts. In 2019, overall album sales dropped 18.7%, making it the fourth year in a row where album sales dropped by at least 10%.
As previously noted, Billboard will continue to work with the industry to reflect merchandise sales within existing charts such as the Artist 100, as well as potential merchandise-specific charts down the line.
|
|
iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,549
|
Post by iHype. on Jul 17, 2020 8:42:55 GMT -5
Important tidbits from the new article.
- The new rule really bans the current policy of selling merch under "T-SHIRT [+ digital album]". It can only be sold as T-Shirt with a checkbox asking customers if they want to spend an extra $3.99+ on the album.
- Great rule! I was hoping they'd cover this... an artist cannot do things such as a checkout code or discount when spending a certain amount of money, that would basically make adding the album onto the purchase lower the price total. For example selling a t-shirt for $39.99 and then having a deal that says "all orders above $40 get free shipping" therefore adding a $3.99 album would make the total cheaper with free shipping.
- They're not allowing artists to release signed bundles after their first day of album release in the meantime til October. Meaning someone can't just put a bunch of signed stuff in their store the last day to go #1.
Even Billboard realized bundling became completely tacky and gimmicky.
|
|
iHype.
4x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2014
Posts: 4,549
|
Post by iHype. on Oct 9, 2020 13:20:03 GMT -5
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Oct 9, 2020 14:13:49 GMT -5
and as expected, merch price stayed same after removing +album..lol
|
|
Dadude#0839
New Member
i stan olivia rodrigo
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 162
Pronouns: He/Him
|
Post by Dadude#0839 on Oct 9, 2020 14:30:22 GMT -5
Finally the policy is in place, getting sick of the constant frontloaded #1s
|
|
|
Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 9, 2020 15:14:10 GMT -5
and as expected, merch price stayed same after removing +album..lol Which shows how disposable albums have become.
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,878
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 9, 2020 16:54:42 GMT -5
Standalone merchandise items had been less than the merch+album option, though, in recent times, yes?
|
|
shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,196
|
Post by shayonce on Oct 10, 2020 3:51:04 GMT -5
Standalone merchandise items had been less than the merch+album option, though, in recent times, yes? yeah for example. Merch + Album $20 -> Merch $16.5+$3.5 Album -> now Merch only $20.
|
|
HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,878
|
Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 11, 2020 20:50:39 GMT -5
The Oct. 10 is the last week for bundles and such- though Dolly Parton's site still has bundle option. Maybe her team isn't in tune with the rules change? Or, it doesn't mind that such purchases won't count or the charts.
|
|
|
Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 11, 2020 22:37:41 GMT -5
^Or maybe they don't care if the merch bundles don't count toward the charts. The main reason I can see them continue to be offered is because of the revenue they bring to the artist. That can trump any chart considerations for certain artists.
|
|